33 replies to this topic

[Mike Walpole]

I have been racing at a track where cars with foam tires SBR, Natural or Fish rubber and Wonder rubber tires are run along with 1/32 cars that use silicone tires. Based on reading the thread in the IRRA forum about certain tires affecting the track conditions, I was wondering if this was a reason that I was seeing the lap times at this track off by about .3 seconds a lap.

I do remember back in the day about tracks where only silicone tires worked and other tracks where only foam tires were allowed because there were not compatible. Is this still true? Tonight I ran a few laps in a lane before moving to another lane. In the meantime a 1/32 car with silicone tires moved to that lane and ran about 20 laps. When I ran on that lane again the lap times were off .3 a lap and the car was very loose.

Any thoughts.

[TSR]

I was wondering if this was a reason that I was seeing the lap times at this track off by about .3 seconds a lap.

You bet your boots it is. I myself performed this test a few years back on two tracks, a King and a hillclimb, to find out for myself. Both silicone and urethane tires as used on 1/32 and 1/24 scale "home-racing" cars used on commercial-raceway wood tracks will damage or ruin the track surface for standard sponge tires until a thorough cleanup of the track with solvent will remove the film left by those tires. The silicone are the worst.
The reverse is equally true as the cars fitted with silicone or urethane tires will have very poor traction on a track where cars with sponge tires and light spray glue has been used.

[Mike Walpole]

Thanks Phillip.

Anymore opinions? If so, please share.

[Tim Neja]

It's not an opinion--it's simple facts! Silicon and rubber do not mix.

[Mark Wampler]

Once in a while this subject comes up. Back in the day, I ran on glass smooth track with no glue. The track owner built a track cleaner consisting of two Globe motors on a very heavy chassis, dragging a damp cloth pad for dusting. No track cleaning or spray gluing, just dusting. We ran homemade (GE) silicone capped sponge tires, mostly Riggen's. For the cars we were running, it was ideal back then.

A couple of years ago I capped a pair and ran them with a Falcon 7 CanAm car on Buena Park's King track when I had the track to myself. I couldn't ask for better traction and handling. The tires churped and squawked audibly in the corners. After about 15 minutes, the thin coating worn through into the sponge and the handling went away fast. It was fun while it lasted. All I can say is urethane and silicone tires are great for home tracks and 1/32 low powered cars, but not practical for commercial applications.

[Vannerlee]

Mike,

PdL has the correct answer. Follow a given type of tire with another without cleaning the track well will effect the next guy on the lane. Clean the track with a good solvent and respray de glue and you got your 0.3 back. Two types of tires on the same track the same night will screw both as the lane conditions change.

Lee

[Justin A. Porter]

In our racing, while we've yet to hear complaints from the regular racers after our events, we're aware that track conditions do change significantly before and after a 1/32nd scale event when we run silicone tires. As such, we're investigating a spec foam tire for our entry level division for 2013-2014.

[Steve Deiters]

When I worked in the wholesale end of slot racing when I was in high school and college we had tracks, not a whole bunch of them, that strictly ran White Circle coated tires out of Detroit. For those that don't know it was a silastic or silicon coated foam tire. It was the understanding at the time that as a track operator you either ran these exclusively or strickly foam tires. You couldn't intermingle them or run one type one day and the other type the next day. The track owners that used them considered them "less messy".

[TG Racing]

It would be interesting to here from track owners that run 1/32 series and 1/24. How do they deal with the issue? I do believe foam tires for the 1/32's may be the answer.

[Mark Wampler]

If it were practical in production to produce only silicone tires for commercial raceways, it would practically eliminate the need for traditonal track cleaning and especially the absence of glue application. Far as home mounting tires, I have no idea. The overlay of silicone over foam would have to be at least 10 thou in thickness to withstand normal wear and at the same time be soft enough for good grip. The ones I've done in the past are around 5 thou or less, but wear out too fast.

[Rick]

If it were practical in production to produce only silicone tires for commercial raceways, it would practically eliminate the need for traditonal track cleaning and especially the absence of glue application. Far as home mounting tires, I have no idea. The overlay of silicone over foam would have to be at least 10 thou in thickness to withstand normal wear and at the same time be soft enough for good grip. The ones I've done in the past are around 5 thou or less, but wear out too fast.

And while you try to sell this, see if you can get the sun to rise on west coast and set on the east...........

[Mark Wampler]

And while you try to sell this, see if you can get the sun to rise on west coast and set on the east...........

Still miffed over track refinish? I think it would have already been "sold" a long time ago. Economics and politics settled that issue.
Private, home tracks will always do best with urethane/silicone tires. We may now move on to the next controversy

BTW, with the EPA along with Air Quality control board(s) in firm command, spray glue and track cleaning chemicals may become outlawed. THEN WHAT?

[Mike Walpole]

We deal with it.

[Rick]

Not miffed about anything.

It's just you keep putting the stick in the cat chit and stirring it? For what outcome or reason?

You would have thought it was "sold" long ago, guess what you are wrong, it isn't , wasn't or will be any time soon.

Lastly, ever here of Daddios? A lot of tracks use it to clean there tracks, real green way of doing it. Except for Crazyfornia, I think the rest of the country is still safe from nutty restrictions...................

[Mark Wampler]

Except for Crazyfornia, I think the rest of the country is still safe from nutty restrictions...................

Not so fast. What happens in CA goes around the world. Now with a super blue government here and WH, a lot of things are going to get whacked on top of jobs. You have been advised. Hope it doesn happen, but don't be surprised.

[Mark Wampler]

If the enviornmental powers that be shut down commercial tracks, at least private (underground) tracks are already dialed in. Ok so some will have to give up wing car racing. At least there are still slot cars.

[Tim Neja]

Geez Mark--this was a really SIMPLE question with a very SIMPLE answer--what are you doing??? Do ya just try to stir up BS?? Don't ya have better things to do??

[Mark Wampler]

No, Tim, sometimes the larger question needs to be asked. You may recall there was an interest in home track 1/32 racers wanting to put together something at BP. They found out that their tires worked fine on BP tracks, but as we all know, it messed up traction for foam tire users. From my observation, the home track guys went back to their tracks and that was that. There wasn't any interest in changing from Homeset to Falcon 7's or exchanging their silicones for rubber. It can be done, but the response wasn't there. All I'm pointing out is (duh, they don't mix) how to work around the obvious and get more people racing, as if there isn't enough division in slot racing as it is.

[Hworth08]

Not likely the goverment is anxious to stop slot racing. It's the only place electric cars have had any success.

[gascarnut]

No, Tim, sometimes the larger question needs to be asked. You may recall there was an interest in home track 1/32 racers wanting to put together something at BP. They found out that their tires worked fine on BP tracks, but as we all know, it messed up traction for foam tire users. From my observation, the home track guys went back to their tracks and that was that. There wasn't any interest in changing from Homeset to Falcon 7's or exchanging their silicones for rubber. It can be done, but the response wasn't there. All I'm pointing out is (duh, they don't mix) how to work around the obvious and get more people racing, as if there isn't enough division in slot racing as it is.

I'm not sure which 1/32 racers you are referring to, but if it was the time that I am thinking of, I prepared most of the cars, and they all had foam tires and lots of lead.

In general, 1/32 cars with silicone tires do not run very well on a spray-glued track. And then they pick up the glue, so it's bad for the foam tire guys coming after them.

Urethane tires are a little better on glue, not much, and they leave dust that is just as slippery for foam or for silicone.

[Mark Wampler]

Not likely the goverment is anxious to stop slot racing. It's the only place electric cars have had any success.

Yes

[NSwanberg]

If it were practical in production to produce only silicone tires for commercial raceways, it would practically eliminate the need for traditonal track cleaning and especially the absence of glue application. Far as home mounting tires, I have no idea. The overlay of silicone over foam would have to be at least 10 thou in thickness to withstand normal wear and at the same time be soft enough for good grip. The ones I've done in the past are around 5 thou or less, but wear out too fast.

Professor Motor's Lightning Speedway in Livonia Michigan has a small 1/24 scale track. Seems to me the only thing they allow on it is silcone coated sponge tires. My JK Indy car hooked up very well on that track with their .750 tires. A 1/32 JK car did even better. As I remember, from back in the day, using silicone coated tires the cleaner the track the better they worked. Glue is a messy part of slot car racing. If you use the silicone coated tires you have all the racers cleaning your track for you. Andy Smith is sort of betting on this format. I like it. Just wish I had time to race there.

During a Cub Scout Pinewood Derby race at TSS Hobbies a mom had the unfortunate experience of placing her purse on the glued section of the dragstrip. What a mess it made for her. Most of us think that the glue there would be obvious but she missed it. Getting the glue out of slot car racing would be a good thing in my book. I know moms don't like it.

If we used silicone coated tires we would all have to make do with slightly less performance, more equal competition, tires that last much longer and work better the more they were used. Doesn't sound like a bad idea to me.

[redbackspyder]

Funny, we race scratchbuilt 1/32 cars at Dennis Samson's Pebblestone raceway, a track that uses NO SPRAY OR GLUE on it at any time, and by using Blue Magic or Love Lotion, the traction is more than fine for a heat. We just clean our tires between heats and the traction works well.

Tim, feel free to comment here, because that is the way I believe it should work on your track as well.

I never hear people complain that the silicone or rubber tires are influenced by the lotion, in fact , the tire treatment makes rubber tires work even better, ask Phil Nyland who blew away everyone with his Chaparral 2e with Rubber tires treated with Blue Magic.

[Mike Walpole]

Dennis, not sure who you are talking about, but I am definitively not referring to you.

[Mike Walpole]

Thanks for all the replys. You all have verified what I thought & suspected. This explains why the track has been off as much as .6 a lap for the flexis. .3-.4 a lap for FCRs and .2-.3 a lap for wing cars. We used to be able to run wonder rubber for the flexis, but now you need soft wonder. We used to be able to run WXX Giant Hubs (.600 wheels) on a G12 on spray glue, but now it takes WH Big hub (.500 wheels) rubber and about 10 warmup laps for the lane to be hooked up enough to really drive the car hard. This has only been an issue since the track was moved and the 1/32 cars have run on that track on a regular basis.