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New Falcon 7 motor


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#1 TSR

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 06:08 PM

The new batch of Falcon 7 motors currently in the works will land sometimes in March in the USA.

The motor will feature some changes to make it even more reliable and especially longer lasting. These changes will apparently involve several minor changes that will make it easier to use for most racers:

- A shorter shaft on the pinion side, meaning that it will no longer be necessary to cut the shaft for either sidewinder or inline use before fitting the pinion.

- A longer shaft on the endbell side to allow for use of a commutator cooler.

- Brushes will get a "proper" orientation, rotating 90 degrees from their current position, meaning less break-in time and better comm track from the beginning of use, and especially, much longer life in the process.

We at Topline, Inc., have never quite understood why all those Chinese motors of "FK" basic design from virtually all brands have had their brushes wrongly oriented all that time! Hard to fathom but likely due to the copycat ways of the Chinese... Well, at last this will be corrected, and motor life should increase dramatically as this is being implemented.

falcon_brushes_old_new.jpg

The white lines were added on the pictures to reflect the actual track of the brush. This improvement required a new brush holder, that will be actually stronger and should provide a more consistent pressure.

falcon_7_2013.jpg

A new commutator cooler will also be made available for fitment on the longer shaft, to be applied with the heat of a soldering iron and slipped hot onto the shaft.

Topline, Inc., expects the break-in period of the new motor to be reduced dramatically and some performance improvement since the brush will track on the commutator in a much more logical fashion, avoiding the "dual groove" wear pattern of virtually all the currently produced "FK" sized motors.

Topline, Inc., apologizes to its customers for the delay in manufacturing this improved motor and will do its utmost to supply its distributors as quickly as possible once the shipment from China is received.
 
Posted on behalf of Topline Inc.
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Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#2 Tim Neja

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:00 PM

Sounds like a GREAT improvement to our little "Junk" chinese motors!! Could help them last a little longer and run better.  NICE!!


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#3 Fiddler

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:47 PM

This is more good news, what with a new track coming around soon. This is all good.


Tom Eatherly

#4 rogwerks

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:48 PM

Retail price??
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#5 The Bugman

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:50 PM

will they be LEGAL for SCRRA ?
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#6 TSR

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:19 PM

I am told that there will be no change in the retail price.

As far as SCRRA legality, if the windings do not change, there would be no issue since increased longevity will not mean increased performance, only more economy for the racer as the motors will simply last longer.


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Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#7 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:26 PM

Regardless of the winds changing, you stated the motor will have performance improvements due solely to the reorientation of the brushes.

Did I read this correctly?

#8 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:39 PM

Sense the new falcon 7 improve version appears identical to the Demon and the Evil 9 as I am sure they are. Should all three motors now be legal in all applications that the Falcon 7 is legal. One would think so wouldn't one. LOL

#9 Tim Neja

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:50 PM

I believe that the Demon and Evil 9 have different winds than the Falcon VII.  Phillippe will have to confirm.

T


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#10 TSR

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:04 PM

Tim, you are correct.


Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#11 John Miller

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:49 PM

"This improvement required a new brush holder, that will be actually stronger and should provide a more consistent pressure."

 

In theory, a different brush arm could be a huge improvement in track performance.  Regardless, it's always good to see improvements.  Clearly, it will obsolete the original.

 

Kudos. . . .


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#12 MSwiss

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:01 PM

If it works better, that'll be terrific, but I wouldn't stake my life it'll be an improvement.

 

These motors seem to be about as good as they get, right away.

(other than sometimes right before they die)


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Mike Swiss
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#13 Gator Bob

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:05 PM

:huh:   

 

Dude ... :smoking:  Installing the brushes correctly would shorten the motor life .... no? :umnik2:  .... lol


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#14 NSwanberg

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:15 AM

We will see.



#15 Tex

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:51 AM

The new batch of Falcon 7 motors currently in the works will land sometimes in March in the USA.........

 


.........Topline, Inc., apologizes to its customers for the delay in manufacturing this improved motor and will do its utmost to supply its distributors as quickly as possible once the shipment from China is received.

 

Philippe,

 

Any late-breaking word on when we can expect them? I have 2 used F7's and other local racers have said they can't get any more. I potentially will have to skip a practice race on March 10th in order to have motors for a series race two weeks later.


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#16 Slot_it_Bob

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:25 AM

Regarding the brush holder if they were oriented to trail the rotation direction would that be an improvement?
Bob Belluomini

#17 JohnnySlotcar

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:28 AM

I believe PCH has them in stock.


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#18 Tex

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:07 AM

Thanks for that info, John; I'll check with Scott.


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#19 TSR

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:33 PM

Any late-breaking word on when we can expect them?

 

They are coming soon. As far as the current model, several distributors and retailers (like PCH) have plenty of them in stock, and Topline has a small inventory of them for emergency use. A little bit of hunting and you will have enough to bridge the gap...


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#20 Roger Schmitt

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 03:57 PM

I have about 40 left in stock.


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#21 Tex

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 05:31 PM

Thanks for all the responses; I'll let our locals know.


Richard L. Hofer

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#22 A. J. Hoyt

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 07:37 PM

We don't know anything about how the new brush cantilever arms will look. The photos at the top of this post are clearly photoshopped inserting a photorealistic image of the new brush into the first picture. This is a common "trick" used as an "IS: , WAS:" documentation of engineering changes, especially for this kind of mass production. Anyone with a single seat of mid range CAD software and a single copy of any shareware photoshop software can do this so certainly the 4 or 5 Mabuchi or Mabuchi-knock-off FK motor manufactures that this work has been shopped to can do this.

 

As Nelson says, "We'll see." what we actually get. I would hate to see the Falcon 7 "up" their game to compete the the Evil 7 / Demon motors because there is already a fine supply of those motors for all manner of purposes (not for IRRA Retro, however, at least not yet). I am very selfishly concerned that the new Falcon 7 will never be allowed to run in IRRA. I could see more and more local Retro racing allowing the Hawk 7, Evil 9, Demon and the "new and improved" Falcon 7 in response to the dried up supply of Falcon 7 motors.

 

The tail end of the Falcon 7 motors (with the backward TSR tag) supply seemed to really tail off in quality - losing their brakes in a way that the earlier JK distributed motors never did! I know this is not my imagination because I was able to milk my supply of older Falcon 7 motors (kept copious notes on each motor) until just recently.

 

I watched as we tried to race a single motor for a 4 hour Retro car Enduro here using new (TSR) Falcon 7 motors and watched them just lose their brakes.

 

Then I watched the newer Falcon 7 motors do the same thing after just one normal Retro race. I NEVER saw that with the older Falcon 7 motors. Then, as I had to buy the newer motors, it happened to me, too.

 

It is not cheap to race a $12-13 FK motor for one race (it will fade away in the second race so it's not worth keeping in there). It makes more financial sense to me to run the double ball bearing Puppy Dog motor - they are at least consistent and you can get 4 or 5 local races out of them before needing to be refurbished. And I had a lot of them lying around from the few big races I attended where you HAD to have a Puppy Dog motor or two, especially if you made a move-up.

 

Here's hoping the new Falcon 7 is the exact same performance with more reliability!

 

Keep it in the slot,

 

AJ


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#23 MSwiss

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 08:00 PM

It is not cheap to race a $12-13 FK motor for one race (it will fade away in the second race so it's not worth keeping in there). It makes more financial sense to me to run the double ball bearing Puppy Dog motor - they are at least consistent and you can get 4 or 5 local races out of them before needing to be refurbished. And I had a lot of them lying around from the few big races I attended where you HAD to have a Puppy Dog motor or two, especially if you made a move-up.

A. J.,

A few minor things;

 

1) The IRRA legal Puppy Dog is only single BB.

 

2) 4 or 5 races is pretty conservative, especially if you are not on a real fast track, with high voltage.

I'm pretty sure the motor in the F1 car I've run most the IRRL season, has at least 5 races on it, and is still

fairly strong.


Mike Swiss
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#24 Tim Neja

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 08:27 PM

We've gotten 3 races out of our FK motors at BPR!! BUT--we don't try to run them over 13 volts!! They run at 12.4 or so--and have been getting several races out of a motor. There's always exceptions--but this has been on average.  

FWIW
 


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#25 Tex

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 09:36 PM

Most of our TRRA retro races are run under 13-volts also and getting 2 races and pre-race practice out of my TSRD301's is a no-brainer... 3 races/practice is possible if I don't flog it to death in practice. The brakes may tail off towards the end but nothing I'd call "severe".


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#26 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 09:11 AM

You guys are all full of it if you think you get more then one full good race out of any FK motor. Even on low voltage.

 

I have a pile of one race motors staring at me that illustrate my point.

 

Ive heard more then once a great racer wish they didn't run that "strong" falcon motor "one more time".


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#27 A. J. Hoyt

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 09:16 AM

I've learned that our track in CO runs 13.4 -13.6 volts. I don't know how long it has been that way but it might be time to turn it down if it means saving motors.

 

Mike, thanks for the input and the correction. We tried PD motors here but no one seemed to like them on our track. Last RMRRA race (this past weekend), 1st and 2nd in Can Am were PD motors, finding favor now just because of the reliability and scarcity issues with the Falcon 7 (our track owner says he can't get them through his distributors and I only like to buy through him).

 

Now that I have read your Marketplace posts on the OWH site, I am encouraging our track owner to start bringing in some of the cooler Chicagoland parts.

 

Keep it in the slot,


AJ


During my four years of Retro racing, I aspired to be a mediocre racer; my peers now assure me I am already there!
 
I think I know a lot about a number of subjects - I can come across as a "know-it-all". The only thing I know about slot cars is if I had a good time when I leave the building!

Entitlement:
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Slot Car Speedway and Hobbies
, Longmont, CO, Home of the 155' Hillclimb track featuring the THUNDER-DONUT - "Two men enter; one man leaves!"


#28 MSwiss

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 09:18 AM

You guys are all full of it if you think you get more then one full good race out of any FK motor. Even on low voltage.

 

I have a pile of one race motors staring at me that illustrate my point.

 

Ive heard more then once a great racer wish they didn't run that "strong" falcon motor "one more time".

 

It all depends on the track and power.

 

Guys use to get 10+ races on F7's on my flat track.


Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman

Eight-time G7 King track single lap World Record holder
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990) 

Chicagoland Raceway
17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
 
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com  (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#29 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 09:22 AM

There are the "guys" then there are the "racers"

 

To each there own.


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#30 MSwiss

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 09:27 AM

These "guys" were winning races and setting fast time of the race.

 

Running a proper gear ratio for good punch and brakes on a flat track with 12.0V is way different

than gearing something on the edge to get every bit of bank speed on a fast track, on 14V.


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Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman

Eight-time G7 King track single lap World Record holder
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990) 

Chicagoland Raceway
17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
 
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com  (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.






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