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Tony P. 1969 Plumber's Nightmare Bat Pan car


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#1 Pablo

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:58 PM

Finished February 2013:

post-91-0-56164500-1361153979.jpg

 

post-91-0-25795900-1361154010.jpg

 

post-91-0-10051200-1361238942.jpg

 

Here's how it all started:

 

Here is the Tony P. chassis style I plan to build.

 

http://www.theindepe...Pan Plumber.htm

 

The body will be a Tom Andersen McLaren:

 

DSC04314.JPG

 

 

 

 


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#2 Gator Bob

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 02:26 PM

WTG Pablo....  Nice choice !


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#3 macman

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:27 PM

& you work TOO???


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#4 Pablo

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:54 PM

If I worked as fast as Tony P. I could quit my regular job :laugh2:  He told me he envisions the entire chassis first, then builds it lickety split.  That is natural talent. By comparison, I am merely a copycat and an assembler. :)


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#5 Pablo

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:35 PM

Tony's build started with a motor and motor box.

I opened up my box of vintage motor horrors and found some parts that fit.

The Tradeship endbell needs new hardware, and the Mura can needs better magnets.

 

DSC06226.JPG


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#6 Pablo

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:15 PM

The arm mikes at .514, so I need a hole of about .535

The Speed FX 16D mags need some shimming to make that happen.......

 

DSC06229.JPG


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#7 Champion 507

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:35 PM

Pablo,

 

The McLaren M6A is my all time favorite Can-Am car. Can't wait to see your masterful creation!


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#8 tonyp

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 08:20 AM

I am honored.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#9 Gator Bob

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:41 AM

A great winning chassis design and outstanding build documentation.

 

The Gold Standard "how to" for all of Geekdom in 1969.  


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#10 Pablo

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:57 PM

I have two things I didn't in 1969:

Better tools and more patience :)

 

Now, where did I put that doggone 60/40 solder ? :laugh2:


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#11 Peter Horvath

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:29 PM

Build away, sir!


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#12 Pablo

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:03 PM

Thanks, Peter :D

 

Sometimes I think no one is reading or watching my builds, then I go to a race event and meet people who comment "I like watching your builds"   :)   It inspires me to keep going.

 

Also one individual actually said he enjoys my dry humor :laugh2:

 

For those of you who have not followed me for very long, an update:

Sure I like to brag about my builds, but I am not so self-centered as to believe I am special.

I have followed the words and works of the greats of the ages here for better than a decade.

I will never catch up and surpass them.  My desire is to be a good follower.  I enjoy working with math and black magic, and I take my sweet time doing it.

 

Paint has been removed from the Mura can.  Speed FX 16D magnet installation worked well, and the armature is spaced perfectly. I set the good arm aside and installed a temp .533 slug to complete the jig motor with a Tradeship endbell. Later, I will install some modern hardware on the endbell, and paint the can.

DSC06230.JPG

 

The body is made for a 3.75" Wheelbase, .75" Guide Lead, and 3.00" widths.

It will be a challenge to make the Tony P. chassis fit these proportions.

I am the man for the job. :crazy:

 

 

 


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#13 Pablo

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 06:51 PM

Parts gathering phase is done:

 

DSC06233.JPG

 

Driver/interior: Jairus

Motor bracket: REHCO

Drop Arm: REHCO

Jet Flag with vintage Parma clips

Classic replica weight by Duffy

Slick 7 Racing bushings

1/8 axle: PCH

Front rubber: EJ's

Rear donuts: JK # 4

Wheels: Russkit Replicas by dc-65X, Steve O'Keefe, and Electric Dreams

Armature: unknown

Magnets: Speed FX

Endbell: Tradeship

Can: Mura

Spur gear: Cobra 33T 48P

Pinion gear: Sonic 7T  48P


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#14 Don Weaver

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 07:50 PM

Where'd you get the Mura sticker?

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#15 PCH Parts Express

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:43 PM

It looks like he removed the original Mura sticker from the can to repaint the can.
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#16 Pablo

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 09:14 PM

Bingo, Scott. :laugh2:

 

I used a blow dryer to warm up the Mura decal, and carefully removed it.

Then I placed it on a piece of double-sided tape. 

 

Here is what I have so far.

 

DSC06235.JPG

 

Next step is gouging out the tube to allow the motor to nest closer to the spur gear......

The Tony P article said 13.5 degree angle.......


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#17 Pablo

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 08:46 PM

Don't know if it's exactly 13.5 degrees, but the gouge I put in the tube should do the trick (I hope) :)

 

DSC06252.JPG

 

 

Correction:  JK donuts are #5, not #4. #4 are same size ID but are much bigger OD.  Sorry.

I used my new technique to slice the donuts for correct size before mounting, and it worked perfectly.

You be the judge:

 

DSC06247.JPG


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#18 Pablo

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:43 PM

Used my navigation tool to check for Tony P's suggested motor angle.

13.5 , right on the money. :dance3:

 

DSC06257.JPG

 

DSC06258.JPG


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#19 dc-65x

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:13 PM

Hi Pablo,

 

Looks like another really fun project :good:

 

Hmmmmmmm.....................that does look pretty tight around the endbell. Of course it always is with these anglewinders. Just to double check as I've been bit by this, have you tried the motor fit against the axle tube with a brush and brush spring in that endbell? :unsure:


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#20 Pablo

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:14 PM

Hi Capt. Rick  :bye:

 

I see what you mean, and I'm glad you are watching my back.

The spacing will be fine.

Post #16 shows it better - the motor in this pic is in the middle of the bracket with regards to fore and aft.

Posts # 17 and 18 have the motor in it's furthest aft position, and I can see how it looks tight.

I double checked and everything looks perfect.

 

Thanks for checking !!!!  I do appreciate it !!!

 

Motor box is done and one inner rail is on. :crazy:

 

Wheeeeeeeeeee !! :laugh2:


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#21 Pablo

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:51 AM

Motor box is done, rear assembly is aligned in the jig, and it's all smooth sailing so far.

 

DSC06261.JPG

 

The article mentions the possibility of using one wire rail, and two brass.  I opted for all three rails .063 brass for 2 reasons; 1. Aesthetics  2.  My car is a shorter WB and narrower width than the article car.  My rear wheels are also narrower. Therefore, I theorize I don't need, and don't have room for, so much stiffness.

DSC06265.JPG

 

DSC06266.JPG

 

DSC06267.JPG

 

DSC06271.JPG


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#22 dc-65x

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:03 AM

Okie Dokie Pablo :) . It's looking really good!


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#23 Pablo

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:08 AM

Thanks Capt. Rick !!

 

I can hardly wait 'til Tony P. inspects it for correctness. :)


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#24 tonyp

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:35 AM

Excellent!


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#25 John Gorski

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:48 PM


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#26 Pablo

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:09 PM

Thanks for posting that, John Gorski !  Very very cool.

 

Front axle tube is secured, and drop arm is ready.  The article make it all look so easy.  The problem is, the parts are slightly different and the jig and jig wheels are different. Not to mention, my body is of different dimensions. 

 

DSC06286.JPG

 

DSC06290.JPG

 

At this point, I took a break from the chassis to play with the motor.

I absolutely have to have a motor that runs cool and will last.  The outdated hardware on the old Mura endbell will not provide that.

In previous builds, I have used modern Pro Slot hardware mated to vintage endbells with success.

Here we go again: the posts and nubs on a vintage Mura endbell are shaved down to provide a level playing surface for new Pro Slot Speed FX hardware.

 

DSC06280.JPG

 

 

 


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#27 Danny Zona

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 10:20 PM

I love watching how you build\rebuild cars. It's really cool and has helped me a lot. Thank you my friend.
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#28 Pablo

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:59 PM

Hi Danny ! Welcome to my sickness :laugh2:  :crazy:

 

The PS hardware installed no problemo, although I had to use Mura spring cups to make it work.

Hoods are perfectly aligned.

 

DSC06291.JPG

 

Pre-radiused the Gold Dust brushes, found a pair of new Champion Light red springs, and she started right up at first click of the Wrightway. Always a good sign  Draws 1.2 Amps at 3 Volts and is cool as a cucumber :D


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#29 Pablo

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:43 PM

Thank Goodness for Dale Ryan's Knob Job; I hit the desired front and rear wheel OD's first try :)

DSC06300.JPG

DSC06301.JPG

 

Can paint turned out OK.  Where did I put that doggone Mura sticker ? :mellow:  

DSC06303.JPG

 

Motor runs strong, starts and revs up quick, and has good brakes.  The best feature of this pablo motor is, the brushes and springs are easy to service, readily available and easily replaced.

frankenmotor.jpg

 

 

Attached Images

  • DSC06312.JPG

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#30 Pablo

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:13 PM

Drop arm is done.  Don't try this without a mini-torch, kidz. :D

 

DSC06318.JPG


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#31 Champion 507

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 08:41 AM

Another first class job on another cool project by Pablo. :wub:


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#32 Jairus

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 10:40 AM

I love the smell of burning flux in the morning.  :)

 

Very nice work Mr. P.  :good:


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#33 Pablo

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:01 PM

Thanks Doug and Jairus ! :D

 

Plumber assembly complete.  It is harder than it looks ! :)

 

DSC06320.JPG

 


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#34 Pablo

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:01 AM

Lots of movement, just like Tony did it. :)

 

DSC06321.JPG


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#35 Bill from NH

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 07:45 AM

That Mini Wheels car will have some competition yet! :)  Nice job Pablo. :heart:


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#36 Pablo

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:49 AM

Thanks Bill !

The article calls for a LOT of movement.  Mine has a little less. I spent a LOT of time making the movements perfect. It was a challenge making it fit the dimensions of the narrower, shorter body.

One thing I learned from this build is, the further to the rear the plumber tube is, the more the front of the pans tilt downward when the rear lifts.

How do you like me now, Tony ? :icon22:  :curtsey:

Out of the tumbler:

DSC06331.JPG

DSC06332.JPG

DSC06344.JPG


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#37 dc-65x

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:47 AM

Looks great Pablo and that Mississippi water is still doing the trick. Shiny, shiny, shiny!!! :)


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#38 Champion 507

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 02:39 PM

You 'da man, dude! :good:


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#39 Pablo

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:22 PM

Thanks Rick and Doug :D

The lower hole on the 43 year old Mura endbell was a little sloppy, so I filled it with JB Weld and will re-tap it tomorrow.

Twin sets of Marklin Train wires. Motor brace ready.

DSC06355.JPG

 

 

 

 


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#40 Champion 507

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:28 PM

Pablo,

Is this your first time to fill a stripped Mura endbell hole with JB Weld or have you done it before?

 

I have a couple of those endbells that need help like that and that would be an easy fix.

 

Please let us know how it turns out.


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#41 Pablo

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:37 PM

Doug, there is no doubt it will work, strong as before.

I will let it harden overnight, then tap it with my Radio Shack mini-twist drill bit set.


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#42 Bill from NH

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:22 PM

You could also drill out the hole & glue in a plug of 3/32 plastic rod. When dry, drill & tap the plastic plug for a 2-56 machine screw. This procedure will also fix a stripped out endbell hardware hole.


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#43 dc-65x

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:09 AM

 Hi Pablo,

 

The JB Weld will should work. If it doesn't here's something that I did that worked. I hope it's OK to share it here :)

 

 

The chassis is finished and tumbling away to shiny goodness. In the mean time these words of the Good Doktor were ringing in my head........



........as I stripped out the well worn threads in my Mura end bell :shok: ohmy.gifangry.gifblush.gif .

We don't have a large stock of Mura A-can end bells in the SHPBAPSCR museum. In fact many we do have are stripped out blink.gif . Time for a fix! Here's what I came up with. I used my new Sherline lathe bought with my "Bush Bucks" (tax credit smile.gif ) and machined some 1/8" diameter by 1/8" long steel inserts. Then I tapped them for 2-56 machine screws:

Steube1stGenAW026.jpg

Steube1stGenAW033.jpg

I set the end bell up in my milling machine, indicated the bearing hole in, offset .200" and plunged an 1/8" endmill down to within 1/32" of breaking out the front of the end bell. This created a nice pocket for the insert to be press fit into:

Steube1stGenAW032.jpg

Here is the insert and machine screw installed:

Steube1stGenAW046.jpg

Here both inserts are pressed in place. The press fit was enough to allow me to tighten the pee out of the screws but I added some "2-Ton" epoxy anyway:

Steube1stGenAW041.jpg

From the outside it looks stock. You can just see the shiny steel thread inside the hole:

Steube1stGenAW043.jpg

This worked out great and it means all our stripped out end bells can be saved. It's a bit time consuming and if I could order a new Mura end bell from the 1968 1/2 Auto World Catalog I would :laugh2: .

As I turn my attention to building up a first generation all Mura made A-can motor more of the Good Doktor's words come to mind:



Yikes! More to come..............


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#44 Champion 507

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 07:16 AM

To quote Artie Johnson on Laugh-In years ago, "ver-r-r-ry interestink". I'll remember that.

 

How would you fix a white Mabuchi endbell with the same problem?


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#45 tonyp

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:19 PM

Pablo, looking great.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#46 Pablo

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 09:21 PM

Thanks Tony !!!

 

DSC06372.JPG

DSC06382.JPG

 

 


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#47 Mark H

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 09:36 PM

very nice Paul!


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#48 Peter Horvath

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 09:53 PM

Wow, Pablo. That thing is killer. Can't wait to see it all finished.


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#49 dc-65x

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:39 AM

Very clean build Pablo. Really nice!


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#50 Pablo

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 06:20 PM

Thanks Guys ! :)

 

I made a mistake - the drop arm was designed for a Cox flag.  The Jet Flag required WAY too many spacers.  A new Gold Cup with modern braid ended up being a good combination.

 

DSC06395.JPG

 

Almost forgot to apply the Mura sticker.  Yes I know it's not orientated correctly.  Oh well.

 

DSC06396.JPG

 

I guess if I have my own sandbox now, I need to start keeping better records.

 

Summary:

Armature: unknown

Magnets: Speed FX

Endbell: Mura with Speed FX brush hoods

Brushes: Gold Dust

Pinion: JK 48P 7T

Spur: D & S 32T

Axles: 1/8 PCH

Spacers: Slick 7 steel

Flag:  Gold Cup

Front and rear wheels:  Electric Dreams Russkit reproductions, front 3/4, rear 7/8

Bushings: Slick 7

Chassis: Tony P. replica built by Pablo

Wheelbase: 3 3/4"

Width: 3.0"

Guide Lead: 3/4"

Body: Tom Andersen, paint by Pablo

Driver paint by Jairus Watson

 

Now, if I could just find that doggone body harpoon...... :laugh2:

 

 


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