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Wood track for TSR cars


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#1 HillbillyYart

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:46 PM

If I was to build a wood track (Commercial grade) what specifics would you reconmend? Im thinking flat track in the 80foot range. 4 lanes with 4.25" centers so I could also run Retro.  Im targeting the 1/32 crowd. I would be running Braid ,so what about braid depth for 1/32? Im guess perdy close to flush? I would use epoxy paint.  Probably the Pyramid 22 amp power supply(adjustable). I want a tight technical track. What else do I need to think about? The cars I hav in mind are the TSR,slot it with foam tires,Retro and maybe even womps. This would be my third track Ive built so I have inhaled my share of sawdust!!!! Winkwink!!!! Hillbilly


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#2 TSR

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:01 PM

Since you are thinking about a 4-lane (smart decision), I would space the lanes to also run 1/24 scale cars. This would allow you to run not only the TSR cars but also the BRM and Carrera 1/24 scale offerings. 3.5" spacing would then be the minimum required, 3.75" being ideal.

Magnetic braid would be best to encourage beginners and allow running many cars that would otherwise have poor grip or handling. It is more costly but worth every penny.
As far as design, I favor this:

 

lascm_track_2010_05_2 001.JPG

 



#3 gascarnut

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:11 PM

Minimum lane spacing should be 4", preferably 4.25 if you are going to run a lot of 1/24 cars. The more imnportant thing however is the gutter width. On the outside you need to leave at least 6", and at least 3" or 3.5" on the insides. The 1/24 cars are long, especially the TSRF and BRM cars, so they need space for the tails to slide.

 

Magnabraid is expensive, but worth it if you will have lots of inexperienced people driving. Otherwise, I would go with regular braid,

 

If you are targeting existing 1/32 racers, then probably foam tires and glue is not the way to go. Most 1/32 racers already have cars set up with silicone, urethane or soft rubber tires, and none of these like glue. But, if it is going to be all-foam racing, then glue and epoxy paint is fine.

 

Keep the braid recess around .010" maximum.

 

For a power supply, the Pyramid PS26KX is almost the "industry standard" for small tracks these days.


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#4 HillbillyYart

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 04:44 PM

These are the two tracks I built and are up and running. Green on is 120 foot eight lane and the pink four lane one is 72 foot.  I hav 3200 sq feet rented for slotcars. I need another track like I do a hole in the head!!!! WINK WINK.!!!!!! My passion and enjoyment comes from building the tracks.I hav a section of my space that I can sqeeze another track into and thats what im thinking. We already run 1/24.  I can fit a odd shaped track in one corner approx. 12x20 footprint. .I would like to do 1/32 and retro.As everyone already runs 1/24 with foam tires it would be hard keeping them off the track.Thats why Im thinking 1/32 with foamies.Feel free to talk me out of this. Hillbilly

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Kim Jeffries
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#5 TSR

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 05:53 PM

Kim,

Nothing wrong running the TSR cars with foam tires, but many other "home racing" production 1/24 or 1/32 scale cars will need some work work before they will run well without their magnets. Like adding LOTS of weight...



#6 HillbillyYart

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:18 PM

My next order I will buy a tsr to try on one of my tracks and that will tell me alot. years ago on the pink track(first one I built) we ran slot -it with foam tires and the aftermarket flag and they ran perdy good but then we went to the 1/24 .  I want to do some flat track racing and because of my limits on space few other reasons Im looking into going to 1/32. Which model# do you suggest trying? is ther flag made for wood tracks? Hate to say it but the way im seeing it but the smaller tracks and smaller scales are the way of the future?Any slot car track that has a rent attached to the roof and lights hanging on the ceiling(Overhead) is gonna have a tough time.I think the small footprint tracks is where its headed. Im thinking about building tracks(remember I like the smell of sawdust!) that will fit in a 2 car garage and selling a few.The track in post #2 is a great lookin track.any idea the footprint?Dont get me wrong, I love the big ol tracks but the sq footage they take is getting tougher to come by.


Kim Jeffries
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#7 TSR

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:43 PM

I personally believe that a shop of less than 1000 sq/ft with a 90-ft 4-lane road course, a smaller "practice" track made of plastic elements, possibly a drag strip, and retailing mostly slot car sets and cars from the major 1/24 and 1/32 scale home-racing manufacturers as well as HO, IS the future. The "glue" is not the future, it is the past.

An organized racing program offering incentives and opportunities to a younger generation may distract them and pull them away from their 2-dimensional fictitious world in which many have sunk, and a competent business owner could show them how to build things with their own hands.

As far as TSR chassis, they are designed to run on plastic track, but it is possible to convert them to a "standard" guide, I am planning to show how to do it as early as tomorrow.



#8 HillbillyYart

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:35 AM

Im SAD to say but I might hav to agree with you. Its hard for a commercial track these days and the Demon is the cost of sq footage. I think the future is the home tracks and "Clubs". I'm not smart enough to make a statement about the glue?........I think once you hav ran on wood its hard to go back to plastic?????...... Im not sure what im asking other than for some "Jaw Flappin" and opinions before I make a plundge into building another track. I would like to  add another direction to what I already race now.  The more realistic speeds and apperance of the 1/32 cars is appealing. Also this is a assumtion but the cost of maintance on the 1/32 cars are less?..... we do run a 1/32 JK chetah 11 class with the Hawk 7 or trinity motor. its a good car but in a differant class. They are "Blazing bullets". Our Fast guy will turn  in the 3.4 second laps on the 120 foot green track. Way too fast in my opinion. But to do this they hav to grind their tires down to lower the center of gravity and just get one or two races out of them, added to that the motors are only lasting 2 or 3 races, its an exspensive class.we run it on a weekly bases..............so,back to the "glue" ? ,is that where I need to draw the line?  What about a wood track running hard tires? what type of paint? Ive been using a hight grade two part epoxy.whats the maintenace of a track surface?What happens if someone runs some foamies on the track and another guy follows with hard tires? I heard they dont mix?Thanks for the jaw flappin!!!! Hillbilly


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#9 TSR

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:46 AM

A nice, well built wood track will always be better than the best plastic track out there. Only if well engineered and well built of course.
The only plastic track available that I would personally use and the only one I personally recommend is the Carrera track system. I believe with lots of learned evidence that the others are not really good, and most others have RAISED contact rails, an engineering abomination as far as I am concerned, a complete misunderstanding that dates from 1957 and the first awful Scalextric track.

The American period tracks were all great: Revell, Monogram, Atlas, Aurora etc. had flush rails and a plastic liner for the guide. But they are no longer available as a complete system, only on the used market except for a few remanufactured Revell elements by REH.
Today, Only Carrera has such features as flush rails, as well as a track surface not akin to gravel as seen on Ninco, SCX and other track with raised rails.

The Carrera is also the only one with the Ninco to allow the use of both 1/24 and 1/32 scale cars.

The TSR cars were specifically designed to run on Carrera track, on which they generally excel according to the TSR customers.



#10 HillbillyYart

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:53 AM

Am I correct to believe you cant run both the foam tires and hard tire on the same track without problems?


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#11 gascarnut

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:10 PM

I run both foam and non-foam tires on my wood track. The secret is the paint and no glue.

 

 

I used a paint called UMA - it is a flat urethane-modified acrylic primer. It seems to be more tolerant of multiple tire types than anything else I have heard of.

 

I use no glue whatsoever, for foam tires we run non-treated fish rubber, and we treat the tires with suntan lotion or other grip-enhancing compounds first, wipe them off and then race. This allows the foam to lay down a layer of rubber, and the urethane and rubber tires work well on that. On my track, I can run silicone tires too, but I have heard that on some tracks this does not work, as the silicone tends to pick up the rubber. I do not clean the "racing line" off the track ever, but I vacuum the whole surface with a shop vac and then dust it down with a California Car Duster before we run. Mostly that is because my track is on a patio, covered with a tarp when not in use. 


Dennis Samson
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#12 HillbillyYart

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:22 PM

Nice looking track!!!!! Did you build it?.....  What kind of cars you runnin and which type of tires do you prefer?


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#13 gascarnut

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 03:39 PM

Thanks! I built it all myself, over a period of about 14 months. Details here

 

We run 1/32 cars as the track is too short for most 1/24 scale stuff. The footprint is 16 x 6, and lap length is 60 feet.

 

On scratchbuilt cars we run foam tires, prepped as described above, lap times around 4.5 seconds. TSRF 1/32 cars run well under these conditions, but not with the standard-issue foam tires, they are a bit too hard. We replace them with some cut-down non-treated retro rubber. As you say, running plastic cars with foam tires requires lots of lead, but they are super smooth once that is done.

 

For plastic cars, we run mostly either NSR Rubber or the newer Slot.it rubbers, N22 or F22, or else we run silicones - mostly Slot.it S2 or SuperTires. Some of my cars have Ortmanns or other urethanes and they work well too, but the NSR and Slot.it tires are easier to get. The NSR/Slot.it rubber is probably the fastest of the non-foam setups, lap times on Slot.it/NSR cars around the 5.5 to 6 second range. With silicone or urethanes we run around 6 to 6.5 seconds for most Slot.it or NSR cars. When we run race days we actually run  both types of tire together in the same race and just separate the podiums. The Rubber tire cars are way faster than the silicone tire cars for the first half of a heat, but they tend to go off a little later in the heat, while the silicone tires stay the same all the way.

 

In terms of ease, taking off the stock tires from a plastic car and slipping on some silicones is the easiest way to get a car that works. The NSR/Slot.it rubber tires need to be glued and trued before they work really well, and they are difficult to true, being so soft. Urethanes often don't need to be glued, but they generally need to be trued as they are not very round to start with, being mostly hand-made in simple molds.


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#14 NSwanberg

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 04:10 AM

"Im SAD to say but I might hav to agree with you. Its hard for a commercial track these days and the Demon is the cost of sq footage."

I don't know about the rest of the planet but in southeastern Michigan there seems to be a real disconnect between the availability of retail space and the price per square foot. We keep building retail space that goes un-leased and the price per square foot does not come down. One explanation, as I understand it, is that the banks holding the note for the property can list the property as an asset backing the loan based on the expected retail lease rate. If the lease rates drop the value of the property drops and the note looks like it goes under water. How it can make more sense to leave retail space vacant is beyond my business comprehension. I do think the high cost of retail space is killing entrepreneurship in this country. It looks like the only model that can work for a commercial slot car raceway is a benevolent owner that is willing and able to commit a building to a program. When my idiot tax investments (read lottery tickets here) payoff that could be me.


 


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#15 TSR

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:30 PM

How it can make more sense to leave retail space vacant is beyond my business comprehension.

 

Not a problem, just a matter of understanding the foolishness of it all. But no worry, the current administration has added over 30000 more pages of tax regulations to the 54000 pages already there. It is beyond anyone's comprehension, but if you think a minute that logic will stop these people, better think again. May be the holding banks can take their example and spend themselves out of debt. Works real good so far.







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