25 replies to this topic

[don.siegel]

Here's one I had never heard of: the Pactra Eliminator! A very generous gift from a very good friend, who doesn't remember exactly where he found it - maybe from old hobby shop stock back in the 70s or so, when nobody wanted this kind of stuff. 

 

I may have vaguely seen a reference to this, but thought it was never issued. Made in Hong Kong, so possibly a Johnson, or similar product, and it does look like some of the motors sold in England, by Riko, etc. Anybody recognize it? 

 

The instructions are funny: recommends running in "slowly", on 12V! And says it can be used from either end, when the shaft only comes out the can end! Otherwise, a pretty well built "hemi" style motor; having screws holding in the end-bell would also be an unusual feature on a low-priced, stock motor...

 

Don 

 

 

 

 

[Steve Okeefe]

Don,

 

How confident are you that the motor, paperwork and box all "go together"?  Not a challenge, just a question.

 

Almost every feature is inconsistent with other Pactra "Hemi" style motors!  The can hole and lead wire colors are different, even the can screws are in a different place.  But, you know all that already...

 

I presume the motor is "16D" or "Hemi 300" size?  How does the motor mount in a chassis?  Being can drive, it is of course mounted at the can end.  Is it mounted with screws, and if so is it a vertical pattern or a horizontal pattern?

 

Would you mind if I make copies of your photos to put in the ISB forum elsewhere on SlotBlog?

 

Steve

[Michael Rigsby]

Wow, never seen on of these, Don.  Sure looks like a conglomeration of parts from different motors though.

[TSR]

Actually Don, it is not unknown. I presented it a while ago in these pages, also boxed. Please refer to THIS POST.
 
The LASCM has several of these, the last motor issued under the Pactra name. It was also used in their ultra-rare Dune Buggy, as we have two chassis of that rare beast fitted with that motor.

Regardless it is one of the rarest slot car motors in existence, and a real prize for your collection.

I do not believe it to be an Igarashi product like the other Pactra motors, and for something issued in 1968, it looks furiously like an early Parma 16d, that came in the early 1980s...

[Michael Rigsby]

Thanks for posting that, Doc. I don't remember seeing your original post about the Meyers Manx, but then again when you have short term memory loss like I do, you forget those things.
 
Comparing the motor you showed in your thread, Doc, to the one that Don has. Yours looks to have slotted screws holding the brush hardware down to the endbell, with hex head screws acting as the spring post on both the positive and negative posts. The motor that Don shows has large head slotted screws on the Negative posts holding down the hardware, and acting as a spring post, while the positive side has the slotted screw holding down the hardware, and the hex head screw for the spring post like your motor has. Possible this was a racer repair, or would Pactra have "fixed" one and shipped it out as new like that?
 
Just asking... like I said... never remember seeing this variation of this motor before until these posts, and I probably have a couple of the older "Hemi" motors up in the closet with some Russkits.

[Cheater]

Michael,

In this specific instance, the truth will probably never be known with certainty, but considering the screws shown and the overall package, I'd put my money on this being an assembly error. On most product assembly lines, the focus is on getting it done fast, and not so much on getting it done perfectly.

Haven't you ever seen one of those cars that was badged as a Dodge on one side and as a Plymouth on the other?

[don.siegel]

Well Steve... I was tergiversivating, and here comes Philippe with the answer! It did in fact cross my mind about that being a sort of frankenmotor, mainly because of the can screws, but the thing really was new in the box... and then PdL seems to confirm! 
 
Now, about that short term memory loss, well it was only three years ago, but although I kinda remembered the Dune Buggy thread and chassis, I didn't remember the motor reference... in fact, now that I think of it, I have one of those chassis, will have to look back and see what motor is in it! 
 
Interesting motor in any case, and a good deal for $3.98! 
 
Don

[TSR]

Yours looks to have slotted screws holding the brush hardware down to the endbell, with hex head screws acting as the spring post on both the positive and negative posts. The motor that Don shows has large head slotted screws on the Negative posts holding down the hardware, and acting as a spring post, while the positive side has the slotted screw holding down the hardware, and the hex head screw for the spring post like your motor has. Possible this was a racer repair, or would Pactra have "fixed" one and shipped it out as new like that?

 
Looks to me that both motors shown are absolutely identical in every respect and that's the way they came, likely from a Hong Kong factory. The brush array is similar to that of some Johnson motors, so it is not impossible that it came from that Chinese factory on the island. However, with all the involved parties now pushing daisies, we will never know. Speculation is not truth... but good detective work does provide some light.
 
Pactra issued several very interesting chassis in early 1968, such as these designed for two different motors:


 

 
But neither is the same as the one used in those elusive Dune Buggies. Both the above have a stamped, gold anodized aluminum drop arm, designed to bolt on the motor's endbell, while the brass-sheet motor mount is bolted onto the can, forming an ISO structure pivoted at the rear-axle bearings.

 

The Meyers Manx chassis has a BRASS drop-arm hinged in the center of the chassis, just like a pro-racing chassis from mid-1967 as used in the Rod & Custom series.
 
The Eliminator motor is listed to be used in one of these packed chassis, but the Meyers Manx we have at the LASCM (one of only two genuine models I have seen so far), has a Mabuchi FT16D motor with the later oval can, that requires a different motor mount than the other loose chassis I have seen with the Eliminator motor in them, of which we have two at the LASCM. So what body came on those, the Meyers Manx or... ???

More little mysteries as you will read in the (soon to be published before I die of old age) book.

[don.siegel]

Philippe, 

 

The similar chassis I have also has the later Mabuchi 16D - it didn't really come with a body, however, except for a Porsche Carrera 6 that was just sort of plopped on top, so I don't think it was original. Can't seem to find a photo of that in stock, but here's your other Iso type chassis, a bit reinforced, but still under all that, with a Pactra hemi of some type... 

 

[Cheater]

BTW Don,

 

Thanks for expanding my vocabulary!

 

tergiversating  present participle of ter·gi·ver·sate (Verb)

1. Make conflicting or evasive statements; equivocate: "the more she tergiversated, the greater grew the media interest".

[TSR]

Don,

This chassis is that of a standard narrow-frame, late-production Iso, illustrated below, on which as you pointed out, someone added (not very well) the outriggers and side railing, it never came that way. This is actually the way it came:



Please note that this chassis has the bracket for the Eliminator motor, but none of the production RTR models we have ever seen has one in this particular chassis design.

That chassis was used with the standard Hemi X88 motor (like on yours), in the late production of the Pactra and Competition RTRs. There was no bracket available for the Mabuchi FT16D motor.

By that time (early 1968), Pactra was only marketing RTR models, no longer kits, because the kit market had died, and most kids or adults still in the market (the few of them) no longer had the patience, now wanting instant gratification.

Here is one of the cars featuring this chassis, the Lotus 40 model by Pactra:




 


The Pactra "jail-door" chassis apparently were only marketed in a RTR model with that Meyers Manx dune buggy, and in a different form than that offered in the carded chassis kits.

Please note the new design for the guide flag, unique to these late issues Pactra cars. I need to take a pic of one to Steve Okeefe to add to his great guide listing. They existed in both black and translucent white colors.

[don.siegel]

Thanks, Philippe - if I ever find one of those pre-painted Pactra beauties, I may try to strip the chassis down to the bare essentials! 
 
Found my photos of the "Manx" chassis, too: 
 

 

 
In fact I just spent about an hour re-reading all our previous threads on the Pactra, Hemi, etc. What a heck of a lot of knowledge - thanks! 
 
Don

[TSR]

Yep, this is the correct Manx chassis, with the Mabuchi FT16DBB motor. Note the different guide, that you will find on late production Pactra RTR models.

The Pactra Manx bodies in clear plastic are not that rare (because Auto World eventually bought the inventory and sold them over the years, including some in their own kit of the Buggy using the rare Atlas chassis)  but come with a black styrene interior. The RTR model came with a white styrene interior with painted-detailed driver and VW engine, and the body is of course painted in metallic red (same color as all three of their last RTR advertized in the period magazines, the very rare Ford MK4, the Lotus 40 and the BRP-Ford Indy car), and has special decals with the Isle of Man's manx on a shield, plus the "Meyers' Manx" decal up front. The clear plastic bodies apparently did not come with decals.

So if you could find a body, then someone to paint that body in the metallic red with flat-black top, you could complete your car... I also have somewhere, a copy of the decals made by Dallas Booth a long time ago. I will try making a scan for you and you could print them on decal paper...

Here is a picture of the Auto World dune buggy that used the Pactra body and the hard-to-find Atlas chassis:

 

 

 

Unfortunately it was painted by a person with little artistic talent, so it will receive another body before too long.

[merkit the grof]

The brush array is similar to that of some Johnson motors, so it is not impossible that it came from that Chinese factory on the island. However, with all the involved parties now pushing daisies, we will never know. Speculation is not truth... but good detective work does provide some light.

 

Philippe,

 

To me, the brush gear looks similar to that fitted to the round motor used in the OK Kadder 1/24 cars, or the smaller round motor known in the UK as the "Rikominx".
 
Joel

[TSR]

Hi Joel,

 

Indeed, and I suspect that all these motors came from the same factory in Hong Kong.

 

Question is, is it Johnson as I personally suspect, or yet another cloning factory??? 

 

Maybe some day, an older Chinese man, 94 years old and shaking on his walker, will let us know... 

[don.siegel]

Here's another one from my miscellaneous British motors - do you remember if you identified it Joel? 

 

 

Hmm, we may have a match here, except for a few small details (like those can screws, still can't understand why a cheap motor would use those!) And below is the little Rikominx, on the right... 

 

[TSR]

Same motor as for some of the OK Kader cars. Likely Chinese since Kader was in Hong Kong.
 
The "British" motor on the first picture is identical in basic shape to the Pactra Eliminator, save for assembly "ears" not present on the Pactra unit.

Why the assembly screws on the Pactra motor? Certainly, not for practicality but for... marketing purposes: it was indeed an indication of a "rewind", something sought after by the younger customers even if a complete lie. Many such motors, especially by Igarashi, received a single "balancing hole" in their armatures, drilled rather randomly. "Looked good" and a good fish hook for the young unsuspecting customer, for whom "new and improved' where the two most important words in their slot car life.

[Steve Okeefe]

Don,

You wrote: "Please note the new design for the guide flag, unique to these late issues Pactra cars. I need to take a pic of one to Steve Okeefe to add to his great guide listing. They existed in both black and translucent white colors."

That would be most appreciated! Please - if you know the part numbers (with two colors and two post sizes there could be as many as four), and any other pertinent information (1/8" and/or 3/16" post), send it along too. Thanks!

[don.siegel]

Steve, 
 
That was Philippe with the guides of course, but it also reminded me I forgot to answer you: of course it's OK to use these photos for the site, although Philippe's may be a little sharper (must be that French artistic sensibility)... and I can take more pix of this or the other motor if needed (assuming I can find that other motor!). 
 
Don

[TSR]

Steve,

I have a few of those NOS loose Pactra guides and will take the pictures for you in the same angles as on your webpage.

Maybe as early as tomorrow since I will be at the LASCM for the day.

[Steve Okeefe]

Philippe,
 
Sounds good, thanks!
 
If you have other pertinent info, part numbers for example, please send that along, too!

[Steve Okeefe]

Don,

 

Thank you!

 

Copyright can be a thorny issue for some folks - I try to be careful and ask permission (at least the first time around) and not ASSume.

[don.siegel]

I'm bringing back this thread because I just refurbished one of these motors - maybe the one shown above, without the screws holding on the endbell. It wasn't working, so I wound up rewinding it (80 x 32, probably a milder wind than the original). 

 

I thought it was odd that the endbell had mismatched screws for the hardware, one side with philips screws and one side with regular, but just looked at my MIB Pactra Eliminator (on the right in this photo), and it's the same thing! Why on earth would the factory do that? 

 

 

Odd, non? 

 

Don 

[Pappy]

Could it be a polarity thing? It's the way to determine which color lead wire to put on which side? The .050 motors I buy have a red dot. But again, I don't know much about motors.

[Kim Lander]

Hey Greg.....I had one of those cars...it was a Plymouth TC-3...it had Plymouth on front and Dodge on the rear....dealer asked me if I wanted it corrected and I said no...it was a good conversation starter.