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#1 Ken Bryan

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:33 PM

I am going to the Rocky Mountain Retro Challenge in Colorado in 2 weeks.  I did a post in their sub forum asking for help in setting up cars.  But I decided to post a request here for overall help with an IRRA stock car specifically.

 

At our local tracks we run the old D3 stock car rules.  Several basic differences.  We allow anglewinders, .750 front tires, .015 clearance in the front, no guide lead restriction, and no body height restrictions.  Compared to our cars, driving an IRRA stock car is like navigating a brick.

 

I have been able to stay competitive using an inline car, so I was thinking about building up a new car just for this race, then converting it to a D3 version after the race is over.  I am considering building my first z-rail car.  Basically I want to know if it would be worth it, or if anybody has any suggestions that might make for a car that is easier to drive, especially on an unfamiliar track.  I plan to use the Parma Cyclone body, but have another choice if that doesn't work.  I forget the make, but it is the longest stock car body available.

 

Suggestions?

 

Ken Bryan


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#2 A. J. Hoyt

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:58 PM

Ken,

 

I have recently joined the "5 second club" with the Stock Cars so I can speak from a barely valid experience base. I have noticed that people here in CO make very stiff, very heavy cars (some of the faster ones have been well over 150 - 160 grams when the minimum is 120) to overcome the top heavy body. Some have a lot of pan movement, some just a little, some are "shaker plates" pans. I am the only one that is building "Z Rail" cars but, so far, only in F1 and Stock Cars. But they are not "traditional" (you will see when you get here - there is a picture of my F1 car in the most recent race report - a hint at how non-traditional it is).

 

That always seems like a safe choice for a Retro Stock Car but IRRA rules do not allow PD motors so you will really be taxing a Falcon 7 (they get hot pulling that much weight around).

 

I might be on my own here but I gear mine the same as the F1 and Can Am with a Falcon motor, 8 into 28. I run a little lighter than 150 but it is still really heavy. It all hinges on finding a motor that pulls the weight well without overheating. I try a lot of motors but you will not have that luxury unless you arrive a day early to test. The motors that dyno the best are not necessarily the ones that will pull a Stock Car around.

 

I checked our track power voltage yesterday with a new fangled Third Eye controller (not mine) that has the digital display - it hovers between 13.6 and 13.8V - I think this explains why our Falcon 7 motors have not been surviving a second race lately. I have to believe this voltage has been creeping up or that the quality of the Falcon motors has been trailing off lately.

 

I am really starting to like the PD motors for their consistency (week after week) and I am starting to like "attacking" my laps and just staying on top of the car rather than settling into a lazy rythym (not the fast way, using a good Falcon 7 motor, but it has been the way to get the most laps). I would strongly suggest sticking with a PD for Can Am and F1 - I like 7t into 28t. Dennis Sampson won the F1 race last year with a PD motor - maybe he will chime in on what he used.

 

The problem lately (with the Falcon 7 motors here) is that they just give up their brakes and only a few controller types can be adjusted sufficiently to "keep up" with the increasing loss of brakes. That usually happens at the end of the first race or in the middle of the second race, in my experience, so that shouldn't affect your Stock Car in just one race.

 

Keep your practice time at around 2 minutes max and let the motor cool completely before going again in order to maintain the life of the Stock Car Falcon 7 motor.

 

Or, you could do us all a favor and bring a TSR motor. Our track owner has never had them on the shelf and it just might be the way to go in the Stock Car class (but probably not at 13.7 V!). 

 

The Dodge Charger, Dodge Daytona, Mercury Cyclone and the new O/S Torino (suspiciously similar to the Parma Cyclone) all run at the front here. Some guys have made the Fairlane run well and one fellow runs an old 63 Chevy and does real well with it. I am a Ford guy and I really like the Cyclone and the Torino. The older O/S Torino Talledega is just not wide enough if you trim the wheel wells legally. 

 

We are looking forward to having you join us at the Challenge, Ken.

 

I will be testing the Friday before the race - if you can make it, we can try a lot of things to get you going well.

 

Keep it in the slot (and you will do well),

 

AJ


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#3 George Blaha

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 03:36 PM

hi ajand ken, i have been useing the allowed in irra chineese puppy dog motors for about a year and a half and no motor failures once they are remanned.

They usually require when originally remanned a new arm AND they do require special gearing....even on a king track 7/27 to 7/29. The disadvantage to the motor is  

it has too much brakes on a roll (from a track call) ,the TSR and falcons roll many sections.... depending how many track calls it can total into a couple of laps.

There is much less heat loss in the chineese pupppy dog when geared properly.

If it is legal where you are located, try it out. I even have some geared with 6 tooth. Like i said , after a remann, they have been 100 percent good.George



#4 slotcarone

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 04:28 PM

Ken if you are building a new chassis I suggest looking at the "mike katz chassis builds" thread for some stock car chassis that I have built that are easy to build and work real well on any type of track.


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#5 JerseyJohn

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:49 PM

mikes work is awesome
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#6 macman

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 01:37 AM

Road course 130-135 grams, oval 10 to 20 More on left pan of same chassis... Tried a 155 on road course, but tooooo much inertia!!!
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#7 Les Boyd

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 01:56 PM

hi ajand ken, i have been useing the allowed in irra chineese puppy dog motors for about a year and a half and no motor failures once they are remanned.

They usually require when originally remanned a new arm AND they do require special gearing....even on a king track 7/27 to 7/29. The disadvantage to the motor is  

it has too much brakes on a roll (from a track call)

Running any motor with a 7/27 to 7/29 gear ratio will increase the brakes. See what happens if you gear a Falcon 7 that low. What gives the Falcon 7 so much roll is the gear ratio that can be run. Those motors (Falcon7) can be run on the same track with a 9/28 because of the magnets they have, and sure they will roll further than a PS 4002 with a 7/27 gear ratio.



#8 usadar

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 03:15 AM

I have just been to our Retro Tokyo Race#4 at my raceway, Cheerio SpeedWay.

The race result will be soon posted at our web-site: http://retro-tokyo.com/

 

What I was amazed so much is that our racers showed a great interest in IRRA Stock Car class.

Although I imported Parma & OS stock car bodies, Parma stock car interiors & JK stock car fronts for me to study the future of that class in our racing program, many racers bought the necessary parts to build stock cars.

I am thinking of our chassis kit producer, Nobu Hanada to make a proto-type kit for the classs.

 

Please stay tuned,

 

Haruki


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#9 NSwanberg

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 12:38 AM

The stock cars look so cool running on the tracks. They just look more right. Maybe even in Japan?:) What a world.


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#10 George Blaha

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 08:18 AM

hey les,

if you ran a fk motor on the king in a stock car 7/28 it would be slow....... the chineese 4002 cranks. when the chineese armed 4002 was legal in gp/f1 it ran well and with the better handeling platform and with the less track calls was a very effective alternative to the american armed 4002. now they are not legal.the chineese 4002 require this gearing as they have less low end torque than a fk yet plenty of horse power at higher rpm.   



#11 A. J. Hoyt

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 02:02 PM

It is really tough showing up with a first time IRRA Stock Car chassis and having to race it on your second visit to the track. Ken's car was just not balanced - the rear grip seemed to be vexing him with several barrel rolls occurring at each of the hairpin turns.

Seeing his struggle, I offered him a couple of my Stock Car chasses to try. I am so very proud that Ken took me up on my offer to race the front-motored Stock Car chassis but insisted that he use his own Cyclone body as it was just too pretty to not race (pictures will, hopefully, show up in the race report).

Our resident Slot Savant, Trevor, borrowed an older chassis and put one more race on the Wood Brothers body, so I ended up with three cars in the race! In fact, I spent a lot of my time thrashing other people's cars together before each of the races.

Really glad you were able to join us, Ken. I had a great time watching my loaner cars go by while marshaling!

AJ
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Never complacent - striving to race to ever increasing levels of mediocrity!

 

The only thing I know about slot cars is if I had a good time when I leave the building! I can count the times I didn't on one hand!

Entitlement:
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Former Home Track - Slot Car Speedway and Hobbies
, Longmont, CO, Noteworthy for the 155' Hillclimb track featuring the THUNDER-DONUT - "Two men enter; one man leaves!"


#12 Rick

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 08:37 PM

You guys make a stock car sound like a Jaildoor car. They are not that bad to drive, yes, they drive different but still handle pretty well. THey are fun on a road course and an oval. The bodies work about all the same, in lieu of most thinking some handle so much better. I have raced the Chevelle against the Daytona, Charger and Mercs and was just as fast as they were and faster than some. IMO, if the class was offered up more in the regions, it would grow more. If I were King, I would make some subtle changes to the rules but I am but a subject..............................:)


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#13 slotcarone

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 08:58 PM

Rick have you ever driven a Jail Door Sports Car?  The best handling cars and the most fun of all the classes!!


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#14 Rick

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 09:02 PM

Yes I have. If that's what we had to race today, I would slit my throat. hahahahahahahaha


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#15 A. J. Hoyt

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:56 PM

Rick,

I agree that Stock Cars are a blast to drive. I like them MUCH better than the F1 cars, which are just too close to the Can Am cars for my sensibilities. It's a challenge to get a Stock Car to be raceable but, once they are, they can be pushed and are a hoot to race side-by-side!

But you have to admit, after racing Stock Cars (we always run them first), the Can Am cars seem like Wing cars!

And I agree, there is not a lot to be gained in the bodies - they are all top heavy and that is what you need to overcome with a lot of low placed weight. The cars are working when you get that balance where the rear tires will slide and "kick-out" when slightly overdriven but still hook up after a tight turn when driven right. I love 'em!

AJ
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Never complacent - striving to race to ever increasing levels of mediocrity!

 

The only thing I know about slot cars is if I had a good time when I leave the building! I can count the times I didn't on one hand!

Entitlement:
The notion that one can have their slot car racing and EAT IT, too!

Former Home Track - Slot Car Speedway and Hobbies
, Longmont, CO, Noteworthy for the 155' Hillclimb track featuring the THUNDER-DONUT - "Two men enter; one man leaves!"


#16 slotcarone

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:21 PM

Yes I have. If that's what we had to race today, I would slit my throat. hahahahahahahaha

There must have been something drastically wrong with the JD car that you drove then.  I have not seen anyone yet that does not think they handle great and are the most fun to race. You are welcomed to try mine out anytime.


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#17 George Blaha

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 02:24 PM

Dear Mr R GEO The most noble potentate of the slot car hobby,

1966 ruled cars(called jaildoor today) are the same type of fun as retro cars are and also retro stock cars......unfortunatley the same guys most always win either they are much better cheaters(and THEY are not cheaters)

or they are better drivers (which THEY are better drivers). You may include youself in the THEY group. Racing slot cars was and is for me fun. Thanks mike for the fun still in slot car racing.

SHAKEY



#18 George Blaha

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 07:22 AM

Hey ya awl Retro Stock Racers,

 

Retro East™ is looking to acknowledge the most funnest class (7th season) with the most beautiful plaques for the podium finishers in Retro Stock Cars. The other plaques for the other classes are cool too. Get a schedule and participate.

 

George Shakey Blaha

 

P.S. Show me real Retro Stock Car driver, and I'll show you a confirmed alkyhauler.


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#19 jrpav

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 12:03 PM

OK so what would be a good "first Retro stock-car" chassis setup? I'd like to build from scratch but if you give me a few examples of some good working chassis I can try to incorporate some of the ideas. I guess I'd be interested in a kit as well.

 

Rick - drive Mike's Lotus JDSC. I felt the same way about JD as you do until I drove that car. What fun! Almost like a BIG Aurora T-Jet! Not hard to drive at all even though it's not stuck like glue to the track. Slow enough to see what's going on and a challenge to make headway against a good driver on another lane. Looking forward to racing my own chassis (built on your jig) this season.


John Pavlick


#20 W. J. Dougherty

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 12:15 PM

Try this:

 

http://slotblog.net/...-by-step-build/


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#21 Samiam

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 12:17 PM

John,

Try two rails of .078". Shaker pan or hinged with limited movement. Four rails of .063 works well at SAL's. We run on the King and Kingleman.


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#22 jrpav

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 12:50 PM

That R-Geo kit looks pretty nice. Sort of a tri-pod / torsion kinda thing. Looks like it might be relatively easy to tune with a bite bar. I'll see if Jim at HVR can get one for me.


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#23 slotcarone

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 02:20 PM

:) John I suggest making a replica of the one I have been building and racing since we started Retro Stock Car. Probably the most podiums for any retro chassis ever. Check out the Mike Katz Chassis Builds post for some pictures of a few I recently built for Charlie and Phil. Very simple with no kit needed--just a 1 inch bracket and 1inch x.062 brass for the nose, a guide tongue and 3/4 x .032 pans. The rails are .078. I have built about 10 of these and they all work great.


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#24 MantaRay

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 02:41 PM

John,

Try two rails of .078". Shaker pan or hinged with limited movement. Four rails of .063 works well at SAL's. We run on the King and Kingleman.

Wow...TWO Rails of .078..............Have any pics


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#25 slotcarone

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 02:57 PM

:) Ray  check my last post. Also look at the Retro east race reports for podium pictures of my chassis with .078 rails.


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