51 replies to this topic

[tinshak]

just spotted these on ebay

http://www.ebay.co.u...d=p5197.c0.m619

 

also take a look at his other items

 

sam

[Champion 507]

Cool stuff from across the pond. Thanks for posting!

[TSR]

At least one is not the correct motor for the box, and the "Orange Picker" built with a Mabuchi bearing sounds a little weird. Are you the seller? 

[Steve Okeefe]

I see right on the backer card it says "NEW SILICONE STABILIZED GIMBEL BEARING"...

 

So, while it may be a little weird, the product in the box does match the package label.

[Gator Bob]

At least one is not the correct motor for the box, and the "Orange Picker" built with a Mabuchi bearing sounds a little weird. Are you the seller? 

I believe that the gimble bushing black can was the first version.

 

I have that exact set-up in NOS (can, mags and endbell w/ those machine screws). "Thanks Albert"

 

Champion started to silicone epoxy the floating gimble bushing on modified Mabuchi FT16D can motors too.

Then they came out with the plastic adapter ring to locate the BB or plain bearing in the gimbaled can. 

 

Thanks for posting the link 'tinshak'

[TSR]

I see right on the backer card it says "NEW SILICONE STABILIZED GIMBEL BEARING"..

 

I know but it IS a Champion can, not a Mabuchi can (look at the openings on the can's nose). Hence it is a bit bizarre and might be strictly for the UK market to get rid of stuff... ???

The regular UK version has the conventional brass bearing found on all "black" cans after the "535" motor, the last to have the brass/aluminum bearing combo:

 

 

US version:

 

 

Same one-piece bronze bearing. The "SILICONE STABILIZED GIMBEL BEARING" were generally only used on the Mabuchi cans, and the "black" cans are well after no more Mabuchi cans were used at Champion, so me think that a whole bunch of old Mabuchi brass bearings were fitted to some of the black cans since the hole diameter in the stamping was the same. Let the Brits pick up the junk!   

[Gator Bob]

Dokk,

A 20 arm in a Euro 'Orange Picker 24' package?  Wouldn't that be a US # 5524 equivalent ?

 

What IS the blue endbell motor in the not correct box?

[TSR]

Looks to me like a mix of parts, because that blue endbell does not belong to that can. That endbell came later. However it is possible that Champion in Chamblee was sending obsolete parts to the UK at reduced prices, just to move them. Everything is possible...

The "20" arm in that motor is incorrect, I remember taking this pic before putting the correct motor back in the box. The can and endbell are the same.

I have no access to the Champ catalogs this minute, I will tomorrow and figure this one out.

[Hworth08]

Maybe the can is the Mabuchi one-hole can for the 5001 motor? Left-overs sent to England?

Champion had a half decent ball bearing kit by then to replace the gimbal bearing. ??? Nice motor stuffed in a sorry can.

[Steve Okeefe]

Aha! Now I know where this came from:

 

 

 

Silicone stabilized and all...  I thought this was some one-off Frankenstein someone had stiched together...

 

 

[TSR]

Steve,

No, they actually did some of those cans but I don't recall them used for complete motors, at least in the USA. And apparently they did! The stock number does correspond to one in the 1970 catalog. Those cans could also be purchased separately.

[Gator Bob]

Note the 4 dimples in these to 'center' the endbell.

[Champion 507]

Dokk and everyone else,

 

I, too, have a black can w/Mabuchi brass housing w/silicone around the gimbel bushing with dimples that I bought new in 1968 at Speedway Raceway, Clinton St., Huntsville, AL and I still own it today.

 

It's just like Steve's above, except Steve's is nicer.

 

I also have 2 - 517 chrome cans with the brass Mabuchi housings, too.

 

Somehow, I don't think all this was for "across the pond" use or sale only.

 

As I've said many times on Slotblog, we were only 200 miles away from Chamblee and we were racing on a 220' Stan Engleman track and our raceway owner, Bob Rhodes, made sure we got the latest and greatest stuff from Georgia. It helped put $$$ in his back pocket! A guy who worked parttime there, Kaarel Piirand, went on to race with Ray Gardner and Team Champion.

 

I wonder if this was a quick fix Champion did because the cheap Jap bearings were failing in the early 517s and this was a way to hold them over and keep production going till they could get the large diameter bushings made.and installed. Any thoughts?

 

I would almost think Rick Thigpen might have an example or two.

[TSR]

Doug,

no issues with that, we do have a few of these cans in both the chrome and black. What I did not remember is that Champion actually used some to make complete motors. But the catalog is right, they did. Thing is, Champion marketed every bit of what they got their hands on, so no surprise really... the real difficulty is to make historical sense of it because the list of available parts is impressive!

[dc-65x]

Having read the tech sheets from period race reports a zillion times I seem to remember a trend of Pro's building motors using the Champion can, magnets and magnet shim, the current armature of choice and the new Mura white unmeltable endbell. I've come across motors suchas this and I always "ASSumed" the 4 dimples in the can were user installed to allow the slightly smaller Mura endbell to fit "Korrectly" in the Champion can.

 

It's interesting to know that the dimples have been seen in factory sealed packages.

 

I also remember a motor building article in an early Model Racing Journal that showed filling the Mabuchi gimbal bearing with epoxy so Champion filling it with silicone makes sense to me.

[TSR]

It is all correct since Champion did market those cans with silicone filled "stabilized" gimbal bearings since 1967. They actually tried a lot of stuff to keep the can bearings from shaking, beginning with a nylon cage that locked either a bronze bushing or the Mabuchi FT26-style ball bearing replacing the gimbal bearing and its copper retainer. I remember running such a combination on my hopped up FT16 motors in 1967 in France!

[dc-65x]

Okie Dokie..........I've got 2 of the cans Steve pictured. So, lets date them .

 

Without opening any reference material, I'm going to guess 2nd quarter of 1968

[Steve Okeefe]

Wait!  Let me write that down! 

 

Let's see, that would be right in the midst of the anglewinder revolution - now I need to find some photos!

[dc-65x]

Hi Steve,

 

Anybody have a guess? 

 

The winner "gets a cookie"!

[TSR]

I'm going to guess 2nd quarter of 1968

 

Actually probably a little later for the "black" versions, but I will check the catalogs later this afternoon. 

[Gator Bob]

The dimples are OEM on these.

The can bushing carrier staking in Steve's can is OEM correct .... poor workmanship with the wrong staking tool. 

 

The cans fitted with the bronze/brass Mabuchi floating bushing had to be drilled out to accept the bronze carrier ..... as the aluminum Mabuchi BB carrier, aluminum over oilite bushing or the large solid bronze/oilite were smaller in dia. on the 'in can' stake side.

 

Does that make any sense as written?

 

 

  If the nylon cage bushing/bearing adapter kits were available why would they jury rig the floater with silicone?

 

 Then again..... why make an endbell bushing on a brass plate that changes the armature alignment every time you reset your gear mesh...lol 

[Gator Bob]

Hi Steve,

 

Anybody have a guess? 

 

The winner "gets a cookie"!

 

What kinda cookie ?

[TSR]

The cans fitted with the bronze/brass Mabuchi floating bushing had to be drilled out to accept the bronze carrier ..... as the aluminum Mabuchi BB carrier, aluminum over oilite bushing or the large solid bronze/oilite were smaller in dia. on the 'in can' stake side.

 

What's a good electric drill press for? 

 

  If the nylon cage bushing/bearing adapter kits were available why would they jury rig the floater with silicone?

 

They can move and pop out. It did happen to me.

 

 Then again..... why make an endbell bushing on a brass plate that changes the alignment every time you reset your gear mesh...lol 

 

Especially when the previous endbell as used on the 535 series (the black one with the molded-in bearing) was the ticket!

Whoever bad-dreamed of that really stupid endbell at Champion should have been fired. Oh wait, he probably was!

[dc-65x]

What kinda cookie ?

 

Homemade oatmeal and raisin cookie

[Gator Bob]

Homemade oatmeal and raisin cookie

 

Mmmmmm....   Hi Rick  over here....

 

Guess- Early 1969 - Created under the 'use up them old parts' mandate.

 

Good motor for an ASP .... if the endbell screws are really tight... lol