20 replies to this topic

[munter]

I see a guy on another forum asking if anyone has one of these motors he could relieve them of.

 

He describes it as "fabled".

 

Did I see mention of it here on the blog or is it indeed just a fable?

 

I can't say I instantly recognise the 270.

[Gator Bob]

John, they are real.

 

Do a search on here; there are pictures and descriptions.

[TSR]

 

 

Not that rare but a bit scarce.

 

 

[Gator Bob]

It is a nice item.

 

 Rivited brush hood was not thier style .. was it?

 

Ad post protectors please .. lol

 

Now .. did they clean the rosin flux off of the hood after soldering the shunt?

[TSR]

Looks corrosion free to me, so one has to assume that yes, they did.

[Champion 507]

Wow, you're supposed to learn something new every day and I just did. Never knew about these at all. Champion never imported them, so I never found out about them. Plus, I was out of slots from mid '68 till '79 so that may make a difference too.

 

Good stuff, guys.

[slotbaker]

Hmmmm... new to me too.

 

What year did they come out, and how do they stack up on the performance stakes relative to FT-16D, 26D, 36D??

Looks like a nice ball race in there too.

 

Thanks for the piccies.

[havlicek]

Looks like a nice motor and a great example of too little too late, or the refinement of an obsolete package...or all of the above!  What wind was in there?  Were shunts really necessary?  I mean, it looks like an unbalanced armature, so I'm assuming it wasn't anything too hot.  Also, the example is branded "Mabuchi" and not rebranded, were any of these sold under any other name?

 

-john

[Steve Okeefe]

John,

 

Unless Mabuchi changed their business model, and there's no particular reason to think they did, that motor you see in the Mabuchi packaging was most likely not actually sold by Mabuchi.  Mabuchi doesn't do retail sales.

 

Mabuchi was and probably still is primarily, if not exclusively, an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) selling only to other businesses.  Those other businesses purchase batches (production runs) of motors either for their own use or to resell them.  That's how they get the proprietary wind, can color, lead wire colors, etc. they want.  In addition, Mabuchi places restrictions on how they may be resold.

 

It is likely some distributor in Japan bought a batch of those motors and packaged them (under the Mabuchi name) for retail sale only in the orient, if not only in Japan.

 

I have a few of these in my miniscule collection:

 

 

 

I snagged them off ebay years ago, and guess where the seller was located - in Japan.

 

As far as I have ever been able to detect, Mabuchi never sold (or allowed anyone else to sell) any of their motors in the USA under the Mabuchi name.  Mabuchi always sold to a distributor (example: Aristo-Craft) or a manufacturer (example: Revell, Monogram, Russkit, etc.) who would then use the motors in their products and possibly also resell the motors separately under their own name.

 

Philippe may be able to refine my explanation, or perhaps offer an alternate explanation of his own, but I'm certain this is close to the way things actually work with Mabuchi.

 

As for the shunts on the FT-270, I think their primary purpose is to bypass the brush springs electrically, in order to keep them from conducting too much of the current, thus turning them into heater coils which in turn melt the spring posts off.

[Gator Bob]

Steve, I'll go out on a limb here ... John will correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I think John was talking about the 'form factor' of the motor, not the display packaging.

 

There was probably a non-compete since the importers needed to sell replacements in our market.

 

Dokk, looks like a good (improved) BB in the endbell ... what was in the can? Any wind specs available?

[TSR]

The FT270 was issued in 1969, at a time when it was simply too late for regaining a market that had been pulled from under their feet.

How did that happen?

The Mabuchi family members were very arrogant, and not that friendly to their customers. Incredibly enough, the Mabuchi empire that we know today owes a lot to their extraordinary success in supplying the vast majority of slot car kits manufacturers with motors, and between 1957 and 1972, sold over 300 million motors that went into slot cars of all kinds. That made them commanding a huge market, eventually setting aside their own distributors in various countries and establishing their own offices in each.

Being quite arrogant, their abrasive personality clashed with those of their customers, the examples abound: Cox and Russkit began looking for alternatives as early as 1966, eventually going their own way.

The second factor is that the pro-racing establishment, that was miniscule compared to the general market, ran into much trouble with the Mabuchi motors, eventually generating the need for better, more reliable motors. This is when, as the whole commercial hobby began tanking in a big way, the likes of George and Ron Mura on one side, the Georgia boys on the other, simply went around Mabuchi and made their own better motors. Hence, the remaining retail customers switched their allegiance and went into that new direction.

With the Japanese market collapsed (even faster than in the USA), Mabuchi lost millions in sales and the FT270 was a short lived last gasp. In the early 1970s, Mabuchi issued their last slot car motor, an evolved FT16 that was OK for OEM use by fringe manufacturers such as Twinn-K in the USA or Mini Dream in Italy. The FC motor saved their hobby oriented butt over the years as they still equip the Scalextric-format toy slot cars to this day.

Now for their distribution and why Mabuchi slot car motors can be found inside Mabuchi boxes:

Indeed Mabuchi was not in the retail business. What dictated Mabuchi to sell motors indivisually packaged, that ended being sold to retail customers, is simply the Japanese slot car kit format. As you will read in the new book, most Japanese slot car kits did not contain the motor they were designed for, and many had different brackets allowing the use of an FT16 or an FT36 motor. Those were then bought over the counter, packed in those boxes. Many retailers also routinely placed one such motor inside the kits boxes, making the sale easier to them and their customers.

Mabuchi marketed those motors inside larger boxes, and send them to their distributors in cartons containing 12 of these containers. Here is one:

 

 

 

There were similar containers for the earlier FT16, FT36 as well as their evolutions, the FT16D as seen here and the FT36D, then the FT26.

 

As far as the specs on the FT270, I really never cared about specs of those motors, they were either slow or fast. The FT270 is fast. I drove one inside a Spanish Segura chassis and it was easily faster than a standard FT26, that was no slouch then.

I would say that it places between the FT26 and the Globe SS100.

But a Mura D-size motor with any of the offered winds on armatures that were more refined would easily clean their clock.

[havlicek]

John,

 

Unless Mabuchi changed their business model, and there's no particular reason to think they did, that motor you see in the Mabuchi packaging was most likely not actually sold by Mabuchi.  Mabuchi doesn't do retail sales, so sorry.

 

Mabuchi was and probably still is primarily, if not exclusively, an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) selling only to other businesses.  Those other businesses purchase batches (production runs) of motors either for their own use or to resell them.  That's how they get the proprietary wind, can color, lead wire colors, etc. they want.  In addition, Mabuchi places restrictions on how they may be resold.

 

It is likely some distributor in Japan bought a batch of those motors and packaged them (under the Mabuchi name) for retail sale only in the orient, if not only in Japan.

 

I have a few of these in my miniscule collection:

 

Mabuchi Generic 16D.jpg

 

Mabuchi Generic FT36 Motor.jpg

 

I snagged them off ebay years ago, and guess where the seller was located - in Japan.

 

As far as I have ever been able to detect, Mabuchi never sold (or allowed anyone else to sell) any of their motors in the USA under the Mabuchi name.  Mabuchi always sold to a distributor (example: Aristo-Craft) or a manufacturer (example: Revell, Monogram, Russkit, etc.) who would then use the motors in their products and possibly also resell the motors separately under their own name.

 

Philippe may be able to refine my explanation, or perhaps offer an alternate explanation of his own, but I'm certain this is close to the way things actually work with Mabuchi.

 

As for the shunts on the FT-270, I think their primary purpose is to bypass the brush springs electrically, in order to keep them from conducting too much of the current, thus turning them into heater coils which in turn melt the spring posts off.

 

Understood Steve, but I wasn't really questioning that.  I was asking whether these were sold under other manufacturer's names, in much the same way as any of the other Mabuchis.  Seeing the timeframe Philippe has documented, it seems likely that never happened...at least here in the US.  Like I said...too little too late!  It still would be interesting to tear one of these apart (sorry...sometimes I just can't help myself) and get a gander at the magnets, the wind and all the rest of whatever is going on in there.  Hmmm...a rewound FT270 would make a cool "what if" project...like "what if this motor had been introduced BEFORE things had gone south"?    Certainly racers would have been doing just that!

 

-john

[TSR]

I was asking whether these were sold under other manufacturer's names, in much the same way as any of the other Mabuchis.

 

John,

The answer is no.

[havlicek]

Thanks Philippe!  An interesting (and kinda sad) sidebar in the history of slots regardless.  OK...so anyone who has one of these, just send it to me for that "what if" project!

 

-john

[TSR]

There is a guy in Germany who was selling a whole lot of them but that was a couple years ago and it might be more difficult to get one now. We have two NIB at the museum, plus one loose and one in the Spanish Segura car:

 

http://www.electricd...nish-cockroach/

 

 

[havlicek]

...sure, rub it in why don't you!

 

-john

[TSR]

hey John,

I would give you one but they are not mine to give away and try prying one from Scott...   

[havlicek]

No worries Philippe...if you ever see anything about the guy who was selling them, let me know if you think of it!

 

-john

[munter]

Again I am amazed by slotblog and Phillipe.

Thank you for the continuing education in slotcar related matters.

 

Lifelong learning really does happen.

[Champion 507]

Book? What book?

[HarV Wallbanger III]

Ya what book Dokk...... I need a mate for my "old" one!