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Flexi GTP ultralight


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#1 Pablo

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 06:59 PM

Finished August 2013:

post-91-0-20168200-1376953600.jpg

 

Here's how it all started:

Going crazy here in MS, no place to race or test, and can't even travel much right now.

 

Would anyone mind if I do a new flexi build here? Would anybody even care?

 

Cheater already showed us how to master a Champion T-Flex. JK website already has great instructions on how to build a Cheetah car.

 

If I build a very light car designed to win one race, would the Pablo fans laugh ? :laugh2: :crazy:

 

Those of you who are getting your clocks cleaned in weekly racing may learn something here. Not saying I'm good, just sayin'...

I'm a mid-pack racer.  This car may get me on the GTP podium some day. I'm going to start building it tonight, with or without a write-up.

 

Bored in Mississippi ! :laugh2:

 

Your input, as usual, is the only thing that matters... :)


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#2 John Streisguth

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 07:21 PM

Go for it!


"Whatever..."

#3 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 07:24 PM

Show us what ya got.



#4 SlotStox#53

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 07:27 PM

A non-period Korrect, non-vintage build!?!? Have you lost your mind? :laugh2: How can you?

No Russkit bracket or Riggen wheels... can you handle it??

Can't wait to see what ya got, Pablo! :D



#5 Pablo

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 07:38 PM

OK. Here we go. You may be very sorry you allowed me to start this. :laugh2:  I like to explain things. Those who are experienced flexi racers may be bored, but if they pay attention, maybe they can pick up one or two tricks, who knows? 

 

First step: the Rules. You absolutely cannot build a race car without a set of rules.This car will be for GTP class at The Dungeon Raceway, and here are the rules:

 

GTP body, stamped steel chassis (unaltered, may use lightweight pans, may add weight and bracing), Falcon 7 or Hawk 7 motors, front wheels must hang below chassis and be 1/2" min OD, .032" clearance entire car, checked with braid on block. No minimum rear wheel OD.

 

Second step: Parts gathering. This is where it gets interesting...  :laugh2:
 


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#6 Pablo

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 07:56 PM

Mark my words, Paul, you are going to meet some new friends here soon.

Flexi racers don't usually spend a lot of time looking at Cukras replicas.  :laugh2:

 

Racing legends like Danny Zona and JC Martin will be attracted to this like flies to a white lightbulb.

I mean that in a good way,  :good: :D  I don't mind constructive thread drift and I love a good conversation.

 

I started out with the following from PCH Parts Express, e-slotcar.com:

 

Koford hollow qualifying axle

Parma cut-down guide flag

Koford drilled aluminum flag nut

TQ flag clips

JK Hawk 7 motor

ARP 13t 64P angled pinion

JK thin spur gear, 64P, 35t

JK center section, C11, .JK250132C, 025" thick

JK alum pan, JKX24PA .030" thick

Prime Racing braid


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#7 mdiv

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 07:56 PM

Go for it, Pablo! Balls to the wall!


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#8 SlotStox#53

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 08:05 PM

:laugh2:  Looking forward to the ensuing pilgrimage of the racing legends.  :D

 

Looking at the parts gathering list from Scott at PCH sounds like you've got a serious contender on your hands.  :good:

 

*Hollow axle*...  :heart: :heat:   :laugh2:



#9 Bill from NH

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 09:37 PM

Have you chosen a body yet? Good other choices. I might have chosen a Flex-Kar chassis with .025" steel pans,


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#10 Pablo

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 11:08 AM

BentLee, .007", Bill, I'm going for overall as light as I can go.

 

This will be one car I absolutely cannot crash. A couple bad hits and it will be over.


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#11 Dominator

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 07:34 PM

Actually that's not a bad set-up. Some of the NECC guys for a long time would run all .025" frames and did well when set up properly. Personally I like the idea of using the .030" center with .030" pans. That should give it pretty good balance.


A motor is only as fast as the chassis it's in.
 
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#12 Pablo

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 11:10 PM

Thanks, Dominic. :D

 

The .025" center is, of course, lighter than the .030" center. That is what it is going to take to win this class at this particular track (The Dungeon). Namely, an extremely lightweight car with tall gears, and zero deslots.

 

I laid a straight ruler from the center of the flag hole right down the V section and notched the absolute center of the rear section.

 

DSC08088.JPG

 

Then marked it with a Sharpie. This will make centering the rear wheel assembly easy.

 

DSC08096.JPG

 

This is flexi building 101 - very basic stuff. :)


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#13 Pablo

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:11 PM

Used the BIG plate to check for flatness.  Both pieces were almost perfect and required just a few minutes of tweaking by hand to lay flat. Kudos to PCH for selling parts in good shape :good:

Checked hook heights and front tab lift, good to go with a little persuasion.

DSC08097.JPG


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#14 SlotStox#53

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:15 PM

Sounds like its all systems go Pablo :)

Raced the original Parma flexi 1 on my home wooden track, they used to run very well. May have to do a modern flexi build like this or a champion turbo flex..

Look like they can really burn some rubber !! :D

#15 Pablo

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:29 PM

Let me remind you, this is going to be a special, purpose-built car designed for one track to beat about 3 specific people.

I don't even recommend it unless you like building a new car every race.

Much better idea would be to build a Greg Wells cheater T-Flex car which will finish a tough race.

If this car works for it's intended purpose, I'm going to be buying C11 .025 center sections and .030 alum pans by the dozen.

 

Paul, I have a Flexi One that Bill gifted me and I completely cheaterized it.......it has beat many many T-Flexes and JK's in it's time.

It's all in the details.....any stamped steel chassis can be made to work great.


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#16 SlotStox#53

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:41 PM

Good to know Pablo :) Always liked the flexi 1 ... As you say everything within reason can be made to work well, in particular any stamped steel chassis, it's just all in the "details"  :good:

 

Funny you mention Gregs' T-Flex tips & tricks , downloaded the PDF of tips just the other day after reading this thread through again :)

 

Doesn't hurt to have a well set up flexi car :dance3:

 

Here's to this lean mean stealth machine working for it's intended purpose :D *taking notes* :good:



#17 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 01:03 PM

Even if you us SS tubing that aluminum pan is going to fold right up.

 

I prefer the .030 center sections myself. I know your trying to save weight but the .025 centers just aren't as predictable across all lanes to me.

 

Good luck on the build and at your race.



#18 Pablo

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 01:36 PM

Thanks Ralph. :)

If I was building this car for any other track, it would be the .030 center section.

In the GTP races at The Dungeon, the cars that win are doing it with ZERO deslots.

And I know the guy I'm trying to beat is using the .025......

 

Single digit inside decals to satisfy the rules, nothing else. No driver. Too much weight high up :D

DSC08102.JPG

 


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#19 Pablo

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 02:14 PM

The nub that routes the lead wires had to go, it adds weight :D

DSC08111.JPG


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#20 Pablo

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 02:25 PM

Advanced Body and Chassis jig:

DSC08116.JPG

 


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#21 Bud Greene

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 04:30 PM

Pablo put some bearings in that axle



#22 Pablo

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 06:44 PM

:laugh2: Thanks Bud, I got some Koford 7 ball unshieldeds here just arrived from Scott Salzberg

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeee !! :laugh2:


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#23 Pablo

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:21 PM

Tongue doubler before......

DSC08119.JPG

some ATF to keep it from sticking......

DSC08120.JPG

.....and after......

DSC08128.JPG


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#24 Pablo

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 10:49 PM

Koford 7 BB unshielded set up with R-Geo jig blocks.

.720" for .063" clearance makes about .032" clearance for .690" rears... don't quote me on the math.

DSC08131.JPG

DSC08136.JPG
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#25 SlotStox#53

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 11:50 PM

Coming together nicely, Pablo. :)

#26 Gator Bob

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 01:50 AM

Two questions, sir.
 
Flanged or unflanged ball bearings?

Will you be bracing the uprights?
 
Then,tThinking out loud... [i]Hmmm... bending the tongue... do I expect head ons, angle shots, side slam wall shots...

What's that minimun weight again? Should I run a diaplane (unexposed) or a tongue brace... or both?
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#27 SlotStox#53

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 08:33 AM

Zooming the picture in it looks like Pablo is using flanged ball bearings, Bob. :)

#28 Pablo

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 04:25 PM

No, I will not brace the uprights. The use of ball bearings va bushings will allow some tweaking before the axle binds.
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#29 Pablo

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 05:17 PM

After 22 hours drying time, the 271 Loctite was still wet on the outer edges, and they pushed right out with slight pressure.

I don't know what went wrong. :dash2:  Back to the drawing board...
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#30 Bill from NH

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 05:53 PM

Use your soldering iron plugged in to dry it.

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#31 Pablo

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 06:04 PM

Too late. I soldered 'em in, using my new Rick's Ungar for the first time.

Wow,what an iron! HOT and fine tip! Fits into tight spaces MUCHO better than my club-fisted Hakko 455.
 
Motor is ready, broken-in under water for fifteen seconds, then dried, then ten second Naptha splash bath.

This motor has a curved balancing gouge on one pole, covered with what looks like a coat of epoxy-like substance.

The wire attachment nubs were way too heavy, so I saved a zillionth of a gram by shortening them. No wire connectors here, too heavy. :laugh2:
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#32 Bill from NH

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 06:12 PM

Wrong product for the application.


It wouldn't be my first choice, but it's been used many times before by others. Sometimes you got to use what you have on hand.

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#33 Gator Bob

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 06:21 PM

What is the amp draw?

Which lead wires ya runnin'?
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#34 Pablo

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 06:26 PM

Draws .46 amps at 3.0 volts.
I'm planning to run single Marlin Train wires.
 
Zip, I don't understand the question.
I heard there was another quake down there recently. How ya doin'?


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#35 Zippity

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 06:39 PM

Do you think your car will be super fast and handle beautifully if you make it as light as possible?

 

Yes we had another 6.6 quake yesterday at 2.31pm. I was in my office on level 9 of a 14 story building.

 

I nearly shat myself :(

 

We have had many "after shocks" of between 5 and 5.7. Everyone is wondering when the "big one" is going to happen.

 

Other than that - we are fine.

 

We have several racers from around the country in town today racing in a 1/32 scale RTR 12 Enduro at my local club track :)


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#36 Pablo

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 06:43 PM

Do you think your car will be super fast and handle beautifully if you make it as light as possible?

 
Yes, for the track I'm planning to run it on. Lightness will also allow me to gear it to the moon, and get away with it.
 
14/35 Wheeeeeeeeee... :laugh2:
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#37 Pablo

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 07:24 PM

14t 64P Arp steel pinion. A very nice pinion, but I can modify it for my specific purpose.

 

It needs to go on a diet.

 

DSC08161.JPG


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#38 Pablo

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 07:56 PM

Saved some weight here, in a very important place IMO.

 

Pinion lightly soldered onto a junk armature, then counter-rotating drill motor meets Mr. Micro Motor dental diamond cutting wheel.

 

Don't try this without safety glasses, kidz.  :D

 

DSC08172.JPG

 

DSC08184.JPG


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#39 Pablo

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 09:04 PM

Old Weird Herald trick of super thin debit card receipt in between gears to set perfect mesh.

And two round stick-ums to ensure enough clearance between motor and axle.

DSC08189.JPG
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#40 Danny Zona

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 07:34 AM

Hey Pablo.

IMO I don't think you need the guide tongue brace. I found when they do bend it's harder to straighten them back.

Also when it does take a big hit, instead of the guide tongue bending down the chassis tends to bend underneath the front axle section. I find it way harder to straighten that section then the guide tongue. I could be wrong though. LOL.

But a bad enough hit its usually over with regardless. I'm watching this build like a hawk from now on. LOL.
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Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!!

#41 SlotStox#53

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 08:14 AM

Mark my words, Paul, you are going to meet some new friends here soon.
Flexi racers don't usually spend a lot of time looking at Cukras replicas.  :laugh2:
 
Racing legends like Danny Zona and JC Martin will be attracted to this like flies to a white lightbulb.
I mean that in a good way,  :good: :D


Took a few but Danny showed up, Pablo. :D Looking for those Pablo speed secrets that are good for a few tenths. :D :laugh2:

Hi, Danny. :)
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#42 Pablo

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 12:00 PM

Thanks, DZ. Maybe next time I'll forego the tongue doubler. What you said about where the bend takes place makes sense.
 
Paul, the biggest "secret" here is the parts list on page 1.

More to follow in a few hours.....
Paul Wolcott

#43 Pablo

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 06:24 PM

I wanted to use body clips and construct my own .025" wire clips instead of stock .032" clips.

BUT, I took Ralph's comment about how flimsy the alum pan is to heart. You can't have your cake, and eat it, too, so pins it is.

I found a length of .065" OD/.033" ID SS tube and hogged out the front body mount holes a hair. Used .063" retainers to secure them.  Brass solders to SS "OK", not great but good enough. No problemo.

DSC08208.JPG

Now, this is funny, I figure I'll just use .0625" brass tube pieces for the rear body mounts, easy day. :D
NOT. :laugh2:  Alum does not solder, or at least, I can't do it :dash2:  What am I gonna do now? :dash2:

How about butting twin .063" retainers against the alum nub? Good idea. But... the outboard retainer sticks out way too far.

DSC08212.JPG

Here is my solution. Put a retainer over a piece of tube, with the tube hiding inside a little, secured with an alligator clip. Add a drop of acid and solder up the retainer.  Don't worry about solder getting into the pin hole, we can fix that as a last step.

DSC08214.JPG

DSC08215.JPG

Make sure the solder fillet extends all the way to the other side.  If not, you will have problems...

DSC08218.JPG

Now trim the outside of the retainer by hitting it with the Dremel Cutting wheel until it mikes about .025" thick. Do it a little at at time and let it cool, or the solder will melt. :heat:

DSC08219.JPG

Now insert the tube in the nub and install second retainer. Secure with alligator clip, and solder.

DSC08235.JPG

The pin tube probably has solder in it. Use your mini-drill bit set to ream it out with a .032" bit.

DSC08236.JPG

DSC08237.JPG
 
Now, where is that doggone guide flag? :laugh2:
Paul Wolcott

#44 Pablo

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 07:01 PM

Blueprinting the flag with good tools is Flexi 101, so I won't insult your intelligence with details... :)

DSC08244.JPG

DSC08245.JPG
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#45 Bruce Wayne

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 07:58 PM

After 22 hours drying time, the 271 Loctite was still wet on the outer edges, and they pushed right out with slight pressure.

I don't know what went wrong. :dash2:  Back to the drawing board...


Not sure how long but Loctite does have a shelf life so you might check the date code on the crimp seal at the bottom of your tube/bottle. I recently used some out of a new tube to adhere a pinion gear and it cured rock solid in about 15 minutes!
 
Another possibility, and maybe you can't see it with the Red, I know the 242 Blue separates its chemicals when left on the shelf awhile, so it's a good idea to knead the tube after burping the air out or shake the bottle to ensure all the active ingredients are well mixed.  
 
Thanks for sharing the build and good luck on your quest for most laps in its first race. :)
  • Jairus likes this
Bruce W. Frye

#46 Pablo

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 08:08 PM

Thanks, Bruce. :)

The bottom of the tube on the crimp is labeled: 2FAM5260

Next time I use it, I'll burp the tube. :)

For now, the solder is holding the BB's just fine :laugh2:
Paul Wolcott

#47 SlotStox#53

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 08:25 PM

Always nice to see a good bit of guide flag blueprinting. :good:

#48 Pablo

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 08:52 PM

Single pair of Marklin wires. Careful planning and routing does not require keepers of any sort.

DSC08248.JPG

Not much to say about the flag assembly. As little weight as possible; no clips.

I'll find a way to secure the wires without them.

DSC08251.JPG
Paul Wolcott

#49 Danny Zona

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 11:31 PM

I have a suggestion, Pablo. Not sure if its in your plans but I would brace the rear uprights. The .025" mils tend to chatter without upright braces.
KellyRacing (loved by few hated by many)

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Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!!

#50 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 06:10 AM

Will do, DZ. :good:
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