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Flexi GTP ultralight


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#1 Pablo

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 06:59 PM

Finished August 2013:

post-91-0-20168200-1376953600.jpg

 

Here's how it all started:

Going crazy here in MS, no place to race or test, and can't even travel much right now.

 

Would anyone mind if I do a new flexi build here? Would anybody even care?

 

Cheater already showed us how to master a Champion T-Flex. JK website already has great instructions on how to build a Cheetah car.

 

If I build a very light car designed to win one race, would the Pablo fans laugh ? :laugh2: :crazy:

 

Those of you who are getting your clocks cleaned in weekly racing may learn something here. Not saying I'm good, just sayin'...

I'm a mid-pack racer.  This car may get me on the GTP podium some day. I'm going to start building it tonight, with or without a write-up.

 

Bored in Mississippi ! :laugh2:

 

Your input, as usual, is the only thing that matters... :)


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#2 John Streisguth

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 07:21 PM

Go for it!


"Whatever..."

#3 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 07:24 PM

Show us what ya got.



#4 SlotStox#53

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 07:27 PM

A non-period Korrect, non-vintage build!?!? Have you lost your mind? :laugh2: How can you?

No Russkit bracket or Riggen wheels... can you handle it??

Can't wait to see what ya got, Pablo! :D



#5 Pablo

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 07:38 PM

OK. Here we go. You may be very sorry you allowed me to start this. :laugh2:  I like to explain things. Those who are experienced flexi racers may be bored, but if they pay attention, maybe they can pick up one or two tricks, who knows? 

 

First step: the Rules. You absolutely cannot build a race car without a set of rules.This car will be for GTP class at The Dungeon Raceway, and here are the rules:

 

GTP body, stamped steel chassis (unaltered, may use lightweight pans, may add weight and bracing), Falcon 7 or Hawk 7 motors, front wheels must hang below chassis and be 1/2" min OD, .032" clearance entire car, checked with braid on block. No minimum rear wheel OD.

 

Second step: Parts gathering. This is where it gets interesting...  :laugh2:
 


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#6 Pablo

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 07:56 PM

Mark my words, Paul, you are going to meet some new friends here soon.

Flexi racers don't usually spend a lot of time looking at Cukras replicas.  :laugh2:

 

Racing legends like Danny Zona and JC Martin will be attracted to this like flies to a white lightbulb.

I mean that in a good way,  :good: :D  I don't mind constructive thread drift and I love a good conversation.

 

I started out with the following from PCH Parts Express, e-slotcar.com:

 

Koford hollow qualifying axle

Parma cut-down guide flag

Koford drilled aluminum flag nut

TQ flag clips

JK Hawk 7 motor

ARP 13t 64P angled pinion

JK thin spur gear, 64P, 35t

JK center section, C11, .JK250132C, 025" thick

JK alum pan, JKX24PA .030" thick

Prime Racing braid


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#7 mdiv

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 07:56 PM

Go for it, Pablo! Balls to the wall!


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#8 SlotStox#53

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 08:05 PM

:laugh2:  Looking forward to the ensuing pilgrimage of the racing legends.  :D

 

Looking at the parts gathering list from Scott at PCH sounds like you've got a serious contender on your hands.  :good:

 

*Hollow axle*...  :heart: :heat:   :laugh2:



#9 Bill from NH

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 09:37 PM

Have you chosen a body yet? Good other choices. I might have chosen a Flex-Kar chassis with .025" steel pans,


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#10 Pablo

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 11:08 AM

BentLee, .007", Bill, I'm going for overall as light as I can go.

 

This will be one car I absolutely cannot crash. A couple bad hits and it will be over.


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#11 Dominator

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 07:34 PM

Actually that's not a bad set-up. Some of the NECC guys for a long time would run all .025" frames and did well when set up properly. Personally I like the idea of using the .030" center with .030" pans. That should give it pretty good balance.


A motor is only as fast as the chassis it's in.
 
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#12 Pablo

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 11:10 PM

Thanks, Dominic. :D

 

The .025" center is, of course, lighter than the .030" center. That is what it is going to take to win this class at this particular track (The Dungeon). Namely, an extremely lightweight car with tall gears, and zero deslots.

 

I laid a straight ruler from the center of the flag hole right down the V section and notched the absolute center of the rear section.

 

DSC08088.JPG

 

Then marked it with a Sharpie. This will make centering the rear wheel assembly easy.

 

DSC08096.JPG

 

This is flexi building 101 - very basic stuff. :)


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#13 Bill from NH

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 08:46 AM

Pappy's Magna Jiggy would help set up the chassis, if you still have it.

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#14 Gator Bob

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 10:42 AM

:good:


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#15 Pablo

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:11 PM

Hi Bill n Gator Bob :wave: :wave:

Used the BIG plate to check for flatness.  Both pieces were almost perfect and required just a few minutes of tweaking by hand to lay flat. Kudos to PCH for selling parts in good shape :good:

Checked hook heights and front tab lift, good to go with a little persuasion.

DSC08097.JPG

 


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#16 SlotStox#53

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:15 PM

Sounds like its all systems go Pablo :)

Raced the original Parma flexi 1 on my home wooden track, they used to run very well. May have to do a modern flexi build like this or a champion turbo flex..

Look like they can really burn some rubber !! :D

#17 Gator Bob

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:27 PM

Ya gonna run a SS pin tube across ? :dance3:


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#18 Pablo

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:29 PM

Let me remind you, this is going to be a special, purpose-built car designed for one track to beat about 3 specific people.

I don't even recommend it unless you like building a new car every race.

Much better idea would be to build a Greg Wells cheater T-Flex car which will finish a tough race.

If this car works for it's intended purpose, I'm going to be buying C11 .025 center sections and .030 alum pans by the dozen.

 

Paul, I have a Flexi One that Bill gifted me and I completely cheaterized it.......it has beat many many T-Flexes and JK's in it's time.

It's all in the details.....any stamped steel chassis can be made to work great.


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#19 Pablo

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:31 PM

Good question, Bob.  I'll be using clips, not pins, so the only reason for a SS tube would be to strengthen the pan.

What do you think ?  I'm trying to save every last tenth of a gram......


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#20 SlotStox#53

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:41 PM

Good to know Pablo :) Always liked the flexi 1 ... As you say everything within reason can be made to work well, in particular any stamped steel chassis, it's just all in the "details"  :good:

 

Funny you mention Gregs' T-Flex tips & tricks , downloaded the PDF of tips just the other day after reading this thread through again :)

 

Doesn't hurt to have a well set up flexi car :dance3:

 

Here's to this lean mean stealth machine working for it's intended purpose :D *taking notes* :good:



#21 Gator Bob

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:41 PM

I'd go with the SS pin tube to keep the alum from folding up...... once it gets bound up at the pan bridge... you're done.


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#22 Pablo

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:45 PM

Thanks Bob :good:  That kind of info is why I live here :)

I'm pretty sure I have some SS DRS tube.


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#23 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 01:03 PM

Even if you us SS tubing that aluminum pan is going to fold right up.

 

I prefer the .030 center sections myself. I know your trying to save weight but the .025 centers just aren't as predictable across all lanes to me.

 

Good luck on the build and at your race.



#24 Pablo

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 01:36 PM

Thanks Ralph. :)

If I was building this car for any other track, it would be the .030 center section.

In the GTP races at The Dungeon, the cars that win are doing it with ZERO deslots.

And I know the guy I'm trying to beat is using the .025......

 

Single digit inside decals to satisfy the rules, nothing else. No driver. Too much weight high up :D

DSC08102.JPG

 


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#25 Pablo

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 02:14 PM

The nub that routes the lead wires had to go, it adds weight :D

DSC08111.JPG


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#26 Pablo

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 02:25 PM

Advanced Body and Chassis jig:

DSC08116.JPG

 


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#27 Bud Greene

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 04:30 PM

Pablo put some bearings in that axle



#28 Pablo

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 06:44 PM

:laugh2: Thanks Bud, I got some Koford 7 ball unshieldeds here just arrived from Scott Salzberg

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeee !! :laugh2:


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#29 Pablo

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:21 PM

Tongue doubler before......

DSC08119.JPG

some ATF to keep it from sticking......

DSC08120.JPG

.....and after......

DSC08128.JPG


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#30 Bill from NH

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:43 PM

You are building on an ABC chassis jig? I keep mine set up for 4.5" chassis, but who cares? I don't have anywhere to run them if I built one. :)


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#31 Pablo

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 10:49 PM

Koford 7 BB unshielded set up with R-Geo jig blocks.

.720" for .063" clearance makes about .032" clearance for .690" rears... don't quote me on the math.

DSC08131.JPG

DSC08136.JPG
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#32 SlotStox#53

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 11:50 PM

Coming together nicely, Pablo. :)

#33 Gator Bob

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 01:50 AM

Two questions, sir.
 
Flanged or unflanged ball bearings?

Will you be bracing the uprights?
 
Then,tThinking out loud... [i]Hmmm... bending the tongue... do I expect head ons, angle shots, side slam wall shots...

What's that minimun weight again? Should I run a diaplane (unexposed) or a tongue brace... or both?
Bob Israelite

#34 SlotStox#53

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 08:33 AM

Zooming the picture in it looks like Pablo is using flanged ball bearings, Bob. :)

#35 Pablo

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 04:25 PM

No, I will not brace the uprights. The use of ball bearings va bushings will allow some tweaking before the axle binds.
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#36 Pablo

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 05:17 PM

After 22 hours drying time, the 271 Loctite was still wet on the outer edges, and they pushed right out with slight pressure.

I don't know what went wrong. :dash2:  Back to the drawing board...
Paul Wolcott

#37 Bill from NH

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 05:53 PM

Use your soldering iron plugged in to dry it.

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#38 Gator Bob

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 05:59 PM

Wrong product for the application.


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#39 Pablo

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 06:04 PM

Too late. I soldered 'em in, using my new Rick's Ungar for the first time.

Wow,what an iron! HOT and fine tip! Fits into tight spaces MUCHO better than my club-fisted Hakko 455.
 
Motor is ready, broken-in under water for fifteen seconds, then dried, then ten second Naptha splash bath.

This motor has a curved balancing gouge on one pole, covered with what looks like a coat of epoxy-like substance.

The wire attachment nubs were way too heavy, so I saved a zillionth of a gram by shortening them. No wire connectors here, too heavy. :laugh2:
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#40 Bill from NH

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 06:12 PM

Wrong product for the application.


It wouldn't be my first choice, but it's been used many times before by others. Sometimes you got to use what you have on hand.

Bill Fernald

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#41 Gator Bob

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 06:21 PM

What is the amp draw?

Which lead wires ya runnin'?
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#42 Zippity

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 06:24 PM

Is "ultra-light" going to be your saving grace? :huh:



#43 Pablo

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 06:26 PM

Draws .46 amps at 3.0 volts.

I'm planning to run single Marlin Train wires.
 
]
Zip, I don't understand the question.
I heard there was another quake down there recently. How ya doin'?
Paul Wolcott

#44 Zippity

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 06:39 PM

Do you think your car will be super fast and handle beautifully if you make it as light as possible?

 

Yes we had another 6.6 quake yesterday at 2.31pm. I was in my office on level 9 of a 14 story building.

 

I nearly shat myself :(

 

We have had many "after shocks" of between 5 and 5.7. Everyone is wondering when the "big one" is going to happen.

 

Other than that - we are fine.

 

We have several racers from around the country in town today racing in a 1/32 scale RTR 12 Enduro at my local club track :)


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#45 Pablo

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 06:43 PM

Do you think your car will be super fast and handle beautifully if you make it as light as possible?

 
Yes, for the track I'm planning to run it on. Lightness will also allow me to gear it to the moon, and get away with it.
 
14/35 Wheeeeeeeeee... :laugh2:
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#46 Pablo

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 07:24 PM

14t 64P Arp steel pinion. A very nice pinion, but I can modify it for my specific purpose.

 

It needs to go on a diet.

 

DSC08161.JPG


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#47 Pablo

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 07:56 PM

Saved some weight here, in a very important place IMO.

 

Pinion lightly soldered onto a junk armature, then counter-rotating drill motor meets Mr. Micro Motor dental diamond cutting wheel.

 

Don't try this without safety glasses, kidz.  :D

 

DSC08172.JPG

 

DSC08184.JPG


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#48 Gator Bob

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 08:12 PM

gear it to the moon...

 
:shok: or a one way trip to Uranus.  :clapping:  :laugh2:
 
IMG_2410s.JPG


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#49 Pablo

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 08:22 PM

Good one, Bob, if it was anybody but you, I'd be offended :laugh2:

Wheeeeee!!
Paul Wolcott

#50 Gator Bob

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 09:01 PM

:laugh2:  :good:


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