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Flexi GTP ultralight


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#51 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 03:38 PM

.047" wire bite bar weighs 0.7 grams.

DRS SS .050" bite bar weighs 0.4 grams.

It's a high speed full punch banked track so I don't mind losing 3 thou of wiggle :laugh2:

DSC08253.JPG
Paul Wolcott




#52 bluecars

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 04:18 PM

Don't stop now. You have me smiling already. I take it your shooting for 68-70 grams. Or lighter than that?

Have you tried asking the person you're trying to beat how to trim weight? He's lighter than that but I can't pry out of him how. :wacko2:

Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#53 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 04:50 PM

Red, have you ever known me to NOT finish a build?  You have me mistaken with somebody else.

There is always a seven-day "pause" every other week when I go on my work marathon to bring home the bacon, other than that I've been working practically every single day on something since about 2001.

I'm glad you are smiling, that is why I'm doing this, so maybe someone can pick up a tip here and there.

I'm not "shooting" for a particular weight, that is not my style. I am just making it as light as possible, and in the end, it's gonna weigh what it weighs.

Why do you suggest I ask "the guy" when I'm already "driving the train" right here in front of everybody?  This is not mystery stuff, the parts are readily available through normal channels. No matter how good of a car I build, I'll never be a World Champion driver. I'm just a mechanic. OK, Red?  :D

Now, here is the DZ Brace. Custom-made from .047" wire, tinned and secured. (Didn't have a fancy one. :) )

DSC08254.JPG
Paul Wolcott

#54 Gator Bob

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 04:55 PM

Red, have you ever known me to NOT finish a build ?  You have me mistaken with somebody else.

 
Um, who could be the slot-slacker he is referring to? Red, don't mix me up with Pablo.
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#55 bluecars

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 05:03 PM

:victory: Not easy to beat him but it can be done. Great build, Pablo! Build on... :D

Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#56 bluecars

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 05:05 PM

It really helps to have Bobby and Vince on your side. :crazy:

Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#57 bluecars

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 05:49 PM

Pablo, this is the first time I've checked out one of your builds. I was just thrown into the computer age. I went kicking and screaming all the way. Don't know your pace.  

Bob: guilty conscience?

Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#58 Gator Bob

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 05:55 PM

Bob: guilty conscience?


Red, welcome to the computer age.... :wacko2:

Guilty :blush: ... Sometimes, but on this one I've been told that crap from 'the man' himself directly. :ireful3:
 
And off we will go... Wheeeeee... :roflmao:  :roflmao: 
Bob Israelite

#59 bluecars

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 06:14 PM

Got it.


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#60 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 06:21 PM

Red, have you checked out "Pablo's Builds"?

I'm not the best on the planet, but I keep building anyway, with a lot of help from my friends...


Paul Wolcott

#61 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 06:29 PM

My front wheels setup. Slick 7 ultralights with #6 Danco O-rings. Rule says they must touch and roll with flag on a recessed block. They meet that requirement.

 

DSC08261.JPG


Paul Wolcott

#62 SlotStox#53

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 06:54 PM

Oh, I like the lightweight front wheels plus the minimalist front stub axle, instead of all the way across!

 

Definitely following Colin Chapman of Lotus fame with "build in lightness".  :D



#63 bluecars

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 07:35 PM

If you use a the smaller O-rings and smaller diameter axle stub and leave about 1/8" side play, let it flop, you can reach the same outcome when it's off the guide. Plus less weight.

 

Just a suggestion.


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#64 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 07:43 PM

Red, you want me to redo my front wheels to save how much weight?

 

Smaller O-Rings than pictured will save how much?

 

Please think before you post.


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#65 Gator Bob

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:05 PM

What's the title to this thread again?  :wacko2:  :laugh2:

 

:clapping: Snap out of it, Pablo...

 

Go get a waffle, it's almost Monday and you have a boot camp to run... :diablo:


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#66 bluecars

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:13 PM

Pardon me. Won't happen again.


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#67 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:17 PM

Red, you are my buddy, I know you can take it, just like Gator Bob, thick skin.

Therefore no need to treat you with kid gloves, this is manly slot building.  :ok:

 

Gator Bob, Red has already passed Pablo Boot Camp, if this guy gets access to wing cars, look out....


Paul Wolcott

#68 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:28 PM

Marklin Train wires go straight to the braid, without clips.

 

Saved 0.5 grams.

 

DSC08267.JPG

 

DSC08266.JPG


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#69 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:51 PM

JK thin spur gear with hollow Alpha set screw.

 

DSC08271.JPG


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Paul Wolcott

#70 bluecars

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 09:05 PM

:bomb: No problem, Pablo. How much weight did you save shaving the motor terminals? Already been to boot camp USMC.  

 

Where do you get the train wire and how light is it?


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#71 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 09:16 PM

Good comeback, Red.  :laugh2: :good:

 

Please, in the future, make suggestions BEFORE I make permanent decisions.  :laugh2:

 

How many years were you in USMC ?  I have lots of respect for USMC.

 

If you did 20 years, My hat is off to you. If you did four years, then quit, don't even talk to me. :)


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#72 bluecars

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 09:45 PM

Four years was enough. I  enlisted in '69. got real lucky, no jungle. Things were pretty shaky, decided not to press my luck. Used to race Gp20 and open wing cars semi-pro in Bellflower, CA. in the' 70s. My reflexes were a lot better 40 years ago.

 

What about the wires? :dash2:


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#73 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 09:53 PM

Red, that is Marklin Train wire, got it at Amazon.com.

 

Send me a PM if you want a sample.


Paul Wolcott

#74 bluecars

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 09:59 PM

:crazy: I'd like a sample but what's PM? I know what a BM is but somehow I don't think they're related.  :laugh2:


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#75 Pablo

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 08:03 AM

PM = Private Message. Click on the person's name, then click on "Send Message".

 

Not recommended for regular racing; I'll probably have to replace it after each race


Paul Wolcott

#76 Courtney S

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 09:42 AM

Pablo,

 

The guys in Jacksonville race the .025" cars and the best tip Rollin and Johnny gave me was to solder in the front of the motor, it was a big help.

 

Great build.


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#77 Danny Zona

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:27 AM

That is a great suggestion, Courtney. I recomend it on all the flexi cars but especially on the .025" chassis.


KellyRacing (loved by few hated by many)

R-Geo (Bad A$$ retro kits)

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Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!!

#78 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:57 AM

Easiest way to do the front is to use a short piece of 1/8" brass tubing, tack it to the motor, then tack to the chassis. Will keep the motor in place and keep from eating spur gears up in collisions. In GTP we typically run the .025 center with .025 pans and the Bentlee body. I tried the one piece aluminum pans once or twice, and never had that much luck with them.  It seems the SS separate pans gave a little more weight where it was needed and just made the car scream through the donut.  One serious collision with the aluminum pan and the car will not be right the rest of the race.


"... a good and wholesome thing is a little harmless fun in this world; it tones a body up and keeps him human and prevents him from souring." - Mark Twain

#79 John C Martin

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 12:58 PM

Pretty much necessary to solder some type of brace in front of motor. There's way to much flex there if you don't. I have robbed another brace like the one you have on the rear,and put it on front also..
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#80 Pablo

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 01:27 PM

Already done. :D Was shown in my post # 60

Do you recommend more than this ?

 

DSC08272.JPG


Paul Wolcott

#81 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 02:06 PM

Paul, thats good. Most of the time I'll use a little less lenth than that, and put it closer to the can end, but as long as it's there, it will lock that motor in solid and keep flex out of the rear motor area.  Hint:  Believe it or not, you can actually do a wee bit of tuning sliding that back and forth along the motor. In different tracks around the state, I might have it all the way toward the can end, in the middle, or like you have it there.  That 1.5 gram of weight can change rear end bite just enough......

 

Question for you though...Where did you get the .050 stainless steel bite bar from?  Over the years since it came out, some of the Cheetah 11 chassis came with both .047 bite bars, and some had .051's in them. You can't find .051 piano wire anymore anywhere (I am totally out since giving it most of it away, and .055 is too big), so the .051's I have left are like gold.  I changed most of my .047's over to .051 to take the excess slop out.  Finding some .050's would be great and almost as good. Source??

 

Again, good build, Pablo.  And quite unusual to see you venture away from a classic style rebuild.


"... a good and wholesome thing is a little harmless fun in this world; it tones a body up and keeps him human and prevents him from souring." - Mark Twain

#82 Pablo

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 02:20 PM

Thanks for the tip and info, Michael :good: :good: :good:

 

e-slotcar.com has lengths of .050 SS tubes from 3 different manufacturers - Chassis and Chassis Parts


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#83 Gator Bob

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 03:39 PM

Pablo ....

Why didn't you use the trick motor mounts I sent you ??? :unknw:

Like I showed in the Caddy build.

http://slotblog.net/...e-1#entry420682

 

Also note the wires are fanned out and tinned after feeding through the flag. If you knock a brush out, you might have fits :ireful3:  getting one back during the race.

One more point .. I would .... considering that I read the race reports and the marshals report and to finish first you must first finish .... use a SS tube front axle w/ collars .. lighter stamped/not machined, would could even 'crimp' the tube to hold them in place and not even have to solder'em on  ... to strengthen the alum pans .... and use the 1/2" floppy fronts like Red suggested. Put the wheels on and 'pinch' the end of the tube.  

The way you did the fronts looks very cool but 1 hit and you bend the front up-right you will knock the 'toe' out and might bend the pan bridge.... you follow me?

 

And ... I don't even care if you give the credit to others like you did with the SS pin tube, bite bar and rear brace... :shok:  :laugh2:

 

 

 Notes from the PITS:

- The C-7  was a spec only chassis for that S16D class so weight was not of huge concern .... and it is a .560 big torquer. :bb: Durability was .. because I would not be there to help Nick work on it. - the track folded three classes at once .... now this car has an FK :bad:

- Then I built an alum pan Turboflex Deathstar car and 2 races later THAT class was replaced with Indy cars w/ FK's :bad:  :bad:

 

Nick is pissed ... ain't been back.

 

 

Same crap down here, I start to get tuned and 3 classes got motor changes and two were totally dropped ... That outlawed about 10 cars I built ... now all this IRRA crap on top of it .... I'm about to stick a fork in it.

 

Just sayin. ...  :shout:  Support your local raceways   :dash2:  


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#84 bluecars

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 04:05 PM

:dash2: OH NO! Not the front wheels Bob-Not the front wheels! :dash2:


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#85 Pablo

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 04:25 PM

Why didn't you use the trick motor mounts I sent you ???

Great catch, Bob, I forgot all about those.  I'll put one in front near the pinion end.

THANKS :D :good: :sun_bespectacled:

 

Also note the wires are fanned out and tinned after feeding through the flag. If you knock a brush out, you might have fits getting one back during the race. If I take a hard hit it's all over for this car anyway. The wires are not even tinned. The raceway I'm building this car for will wait for me to fix a braid.

 

One more point .. I would .... considering that I read the race reports and the marshals report and to finish first you must first finish .... use a SS tube front axle w/ collars .. lighter stamped/not machined, would could even 'crimp' the tube to hold them in place and not even have to solder'em on  ... to strengthen the alum pans .... and use the 1/2" floppy fronts like Red suggested. Put the wheels on and 'pinch' the end of the tube.  

The way you did the fronts looks very cool but 1 hit and you bend the front up-right you will knock the 'toe' out and might bend the pan bridge.... you follow me? I understand, but this car is not designed to crash. It's designed for zero deslots to win a particular race at a particular raceway to beat two or three people who are winning by having rocket light and fast cars and zero deslots.  That's the last time I'm going to say it.  One hard hit and I'm out.


Paul Wolcott

#86 Gator Bob

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 04:48 PM

To quote someone on here (?) .... "Keep it in the slot"  :D

 

I am behind you all the way on this one :victory:  .... I don't know where Red will be ....   :diablo:


Bob Israelite

#87 Pablo

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 05:07 PM

I give you....The Bob Brace"  :unknw: :yawnface:

DSC08276.JPG


Paul Wolcott

#88 bluecars

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 05:32 PM

:bomb: OK! Not arguing just saying, you know I run that track every month. I run al. pans, have for a long time, I've tried .32-.25 and hoping not to hit or get hit is just a pipe dream on that track. IF/When you get hit the al. is a lot easier to grab and tweek back to functional than the others. I run clips, no bracing of any kind on the pans. I don't have pan problems. Have had some bad luck the past few times but it wasn't to do with anything except not being able to find a #%$& Hawk that will keep up with a good running Mini Brute. I've been threw 12-15 of them and the best one I've found sense the first batch came out I got from the man in L.A.[not cal.] Tried everything I know to make them run. Guess I'm just not smart enough. [no comments nesesary] for my spelling either :dash2: That's my openion . Take it or leave it :heat:  :D Awaiting my *** chewing :sun_bespectacled:


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#89 Pablo

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 05:32 PM

Bob, naw, just think about all the mass I saved by trimming the elec. hookup nubs :crazy:  Just ask Red, he knows :laugh2:

 

I'm sure the experts all do this, but maybe a newbie out there can learn to center his rear wheel assembly aligning the marks on the tech tool and the back of the center section......

DSC08277.JPG

DSC08279.JPG

 

Narrowed .690 Bulldog rear wheels with mag hubs.

 

Redmaster, sounds like you may possibly be making the same mistake I made the first time I started running Hawk 7's ---- on 12 Volts they like a LOT of gear. Much more than a Falcon 7 by far.


Paul Wolcott

#90 bluecars

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 05:47 PM

Up to 15-35 with .650 got 1 more tooth to work with :dash2:


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#91 W. J. Dougherty

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 05:52 PM

Paul,

 

Can you please show an underside shot of the motorbox area?

 

 

Thanks...


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#92 Pablo

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 06:07 PM

DSC08281.JPG

 

DSC08284.JPG


Paul Wolcott

#93 SlotStox#53

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 06:18 PM

Wow you weren't kidding about light weight and ready to race! Just no deslots :shok: :dash2: :laugh2:


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#94 W. J. Dougherty

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 06:19 PM

Thanks, Paul.  FYI, I have been known to lay a bead of solder along the "endbell" end of the can in that type of chassis.


Yortuk & Georg Festrunk

#95 Bud Greene

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 06:46 PM

Up to 15-35 with .650 got 1 more tooth to work with :dash2:

dog gone you running a 15t on hawk I tried it one time I didn't gain any performance over a 14t



#96 Gator Bob

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 07:27 PM

Bro ... Did ya test fit the body over the fronts?


Bob Israelite

#97 Pablo

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 07:45 PM

Yes, Bob :D  Thanks for asking :sun_bespectacled:

With a pan that moves a lot like this, body mounting is tricky.  Experts, forgive me for giving a "flexi body mount 101" here.  The pan needs to be perfectly centered and temporarily secured to the center section so the body is mounted correctly.  Masking tape does the trick.

DSC08285.JPG

ABC Body Mount Jig makes precise alignment possible for dummies like me.

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Marks on centerline of jig aligned with center section of chassis:

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Front magnets attached:

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Rear mags:

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Then some adjustments, eyeballing, and measuring to ensure she sits exactly where I want her.

Harpoon punches the holes.

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Paul Wolcott

#98 Gator Bob

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 07:53 PM

Cool .. I was thinking the the fender top were more skinny and the track was to narrow.

Those body mounting blocks 'rule' :good:


Bob Israelite

#99 Danny Zona

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 08:06 PM

Don't forget about the med and low down force GTP Bentlee bodies. It makes a difference on certain tracks.
KellyRacing (loved by few hated by many)

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Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!!

#100 SlotStox#53

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 08:06 PM

*noted* one body mounting block to add to the list of required tools to collect :laugh2:

looking good Pablo, looking forward to seeing the color layed on :D





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