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Flexi GTP ultralight


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#51 Pablo

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 09:04 PM

Old Weird Herald trick of super thin debit card receipt in between gears to set perfect mesh.

And two round stick-ums to ensure enough clearance between motor and axle.

DSC08189.JPG
Paul Wolcott




#52 Danny Zona

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 07:34 AM

Hey Pablo.

IMO I don't think you need the guide tongue brace. I found when they do bend it's harder to straighten them back.

Also when it does take a big hit, instead of the guide tongue bending down the chassis tends to bend underneath the front axle section. I find it way harder to straighten that section then the guide tongue. I could be wrong though. LOL.

But a bad enough hit its usually over with regardless. I'm watching this build like a hawk from now on. LOL.
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KellyRacing
R-GEO

I've been racing in the FL flexi series since 1999 when I started back racing. Just imagine the rules changes I've seen!

#53 SlotStox#53

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 08:14 AM

Mark my words, Paul, you are going to meet some new friends here soon.
Flexi racers don't usually spend a lot of time looking at Cukras replicas.  :laugh2:
 
Racing legends like Danny Zona and JC Martin will be attracted to this like flies to a white lightbulb.
I mean that in a good way,  :good: :D


Took a few but Danny showed up, Pablo. :D Looking for those Pablo speed secrets that are good for a few tenths. :D :laugh2:

Hi, Danny. :)
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#54 Pablo

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 12:00 PM

Thanks, DZ. Maybe next time I'll forego the tongue doubler. What you said about where the bend takes place makes sense.
 
Paul, the biggest "secret" here is the parts list on page 1.

More to follow in a few hours.....
Paul Wolcott

#55 Pablo

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 06:24 PM

I wanted to use body clips and construct my own .025" wire clips instead of stock .032" clips.

BUT, I took Ralph's comment about how flimsy the alum pan is to heart. You can't have your cake, and eat it, too, so pins it is.

I found a length of .065" OD/.033" ID SS tube and hogged out the front body mount holes a hair. Used .063" retainers to secure them.  Brass solders to SS "OK", not great but good enough. No problemo.

DSC08208.JPG

Now, this is funny, I figure I'll just use .0625" brass tube pieces for the rear body mounts, easy day. :D
NOT. :laugh2:  Alum does not solder, or at least, I can't do it :dash2:  What am I gonna do now? :dash2:

How about butting twin .063" retainers against the alum nub? Good idea. But... the outboard retainer sticks out way too far.

DSC08212.JPG

Here is my solution. Put a retainer over a piece of tube, with the tube hiding inside a little, secured with an alligator clip. Add a drop of acid and solder up the retainer.  Don't worry about solder getting into the pin hole, we can fix that as a last step.

DSC08214.JPG

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Make sure the solder fillet extends all the way to the other side.  If not, you will have problems...

DSC08218.JPG

Now trim the outside of the retainer by hitting it with the Dremel Cutting wheel until it mikes about .025" thick. Do it a little at at time and let it cool, or the solder will melt. :heat:

DSC08219.JPG

Now insert the tube in the nub and install second retainer. Secure with alligator clip, and solder.

DSC08235.JPG

The pin tube probably has solder in it. Use your mini-drill bit set to ream it out with a .032" bit.

DSC08236.JPG

DSC08237.JPG
 
Now, where is that doggone guide flag? :laugh2:
Paul Wolcott

#56 Pablo

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 07:01 PM

Blueprinting the flag with good tools is Flexi 101, so I won't insult your intelligence with details... :)

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Paul Wolcott

#57 Bruce Wayne

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 07:58 PM

After 22 hours drying time, the 271 Loctite was still wet on the outer edges, and they pushed right out with slight pressure.

I don't know what went wrong. :dash2:  Back to the drawing board...


Not sure how long but Loctite does have a shelf life so you might check the date code on the crimp seal at the bottom of your tube/bottle. I recently used some out of a new tube to adhere a pinion gear and it cured rock solid in about 15 minutes!
 
Another possibility, and maybe you can't see it with the Red, I know the 242 Blue separates its chemicals when left on the shelf awhile, so it's a good idea to knead the tube after burping the air out or shake the bottle to ensure all the active ingredients are well mixed.  
 
Thanks for sharing the build and good luck on your quest for most laps in its first race. :)
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#58 Pablo

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 08:08 PM

Thanks, Bruce. :)

The bottom of the tube on the crimp is labeled: 2FAM5260

Next time I use it, I'll burp the tube. :)

For now, the solder is holding the BB's just fine :laugh2:
Paul Wolcott

#59 SlotStox#53

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 08:25 PM

Always nice to see a good bit of guide flag blueprinting. :good:

#60 Pablo

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 08:52 PM

Single pair of Marklin wires. Careful planning and routing does not require keepers of any sort.

DSC08248.JPG

Not much to say about the flag assembly. As little weight as possible; no clips.

I'll find a way to secure the wires without them.

DSC08251.JPG
Paul Wolcott

#61 Zippity

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 09:48 PM

Why aren't you using one of "Harry's Nuts"?

#62 Danny Zona

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 11:31 PM

I have a suggestion, Pablo. Not sure if its in your plans but I would brace the rear uprights. The .025" mils tend to chatter without upright braces.
KellyRacing
R-GEO

I've been racing in the FL flexi series since 1999 when I started back racing. Just imagine the rules changes I've seen!

#63 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 06:10 AM

Will do, DZ. :good:
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#64 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 03:38 PM

.047" wire bite bar weighs 0.7 grams.

DRS SS .050" bite bar weighs 0.4 grams.

It's a high speed full punch banked track so I don't mind losing 3 thou of wiggle :laugh2:

DSC08253.JPG
Paul Wolcott

#65 bluecars

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 04:18 PM

Don't stop now. You have me smiling already. I take it your shooting for 68-70 grams. Or lighter than that?

Have you tried asking the person you're trying to beat how to trim weight? He's lighter than that but I can't pry out of him how. :wacko2:

Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#66 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 04:50 PM

Red, have you ever known me to NOT finish a build?  You have me mistaken with somebody else.

There is always a seven-day "pause" every other week when I go on my work marathon to bring home the bacon, other than that I've been working practically every single day on something since about 2001.

I'm glad you are smiling, that is why I'm doing this, so maybe someone can pick up a tip here and there.

I'm not "shooting" for a particular weight, that is not my style. I am just making it as light as possible, and in the end, it's gonna weigh what it weighs.

Why do you suggest I ask "the guy" when I'm already "driving the train" right here in front of everybody?  This is not mystery stuff, the parts are readily available through normal channels. No matter how good of a car I build, I'll never be a World Champion driver. I'm just a mechanic. OK, Red?  :D

Now, here is the DZ Brace. Custom-made from .047" wire, tinned and secured. (Didn't have a fancy one. :) )

DSC08254.JPG
Paul Wolcott

#67 Gator Bob

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 04:55 PM

Red, have you ever known me to NOT finish a build ?  You have me mistaken with somebody else.

 
Um, who could be the slot-slacker he is referring to? Red, don't mix me up with Pablo.
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#68 bluecars

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 05:03 PM

:victory: Not easy to beat him but it can be done. Great build, Pablo! Build on... :D

Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#69 bluecars

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 05:05 PM

It really helps to have Bobby and Vince on your side. :crazy:

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#70 Gator Bob

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 05:18 PM

Yes, I do... from T-Rex Racing ! :laugh2:
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#71 bluecars

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 05:49 PM

Pablo, this is the first time I've checked out one of your builds. I was just thrown into the computer age. I went kicking and screaming all the way. Don't know your pace.  

Bob: guilty conscience?

Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#72 Gator Bob

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 05:55 PM

Bob: guilty conscience?


Red, welcome to the computer age.... :wacko2:

Guilty :blush: ... Sometimes, but on this one I've been told that crap from 'the man' himself directly. :ireful3:
 
And off we will go... Wheeeeee... :roflmao:  :roflmao: 
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#73 bluecars

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 06:14 PM

Got it.


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#74 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 06:21 PM

Red, have you checked out "Pablo's Builds"?

I'm not the best on the planet, but I keep building anyway, with a lot of help from my friends...


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#75 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 06:29 PM

My front wheels setup. Slick 7 ultralights with #6 Danco O-rings. Rule says they must touch and roll with flag on a recessed block. They meet that requirement.

 

DSC08261.JPG


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#76 SlotStox#53

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 06:54 PM

Oh, I like the lightweight front wheels plus the minimalist front stub axle, instead of all the way across!

 

Definitely following Colin Chapman of Lotus fame with "build in lightness".  :D



#77 bluecars

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 07:35 PM

If you use a the smaller O-rings and smaller diameter axle stub and leave about 1/8" side play, let it flop, you can reach the same outcome when it's off the guide. Plus less weight.

 

Just a suggestion.


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#78 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 07:43 PM

Red, you want me to redo my front wheels to save how much weight?

 

Smaller O-Rings than pictured will save how much?

 

Please think before you post.


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#79 Gator Bob

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:05 PM

What's the title to this thread again?  :wacko2:  :laugh2:

 

:clapping: Snap out of it, Pablo...

 

Go get a waffle, it's almost Monday and you have a boot camp to run... :diablo:


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#80 bluecars

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:13 PM

Pardon me. Won't happen again.


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#81 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:17 PM

Red, you are my buddy, I know you can take it, just like Gator Bob, thick skin.

Therefore no need to treat you with kid gloves, this is manly slot building.  :ok:

 

Gator Bob, Red has already passed Pablo Boot Camp, if this guy gets access to wing cars, look out....


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#82 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:28 PM

Marklin Train wires go straight to the braid, without clips.

 

Saved 0.5 grams.

 

DSC08267.JPG

 

DSC08266.JPG


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#83 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:51 PM

JK thin spur gear with hollow Alpha set screw.

 

DSC08271.JPG


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Paul Wolcott

#84 bluecars

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 09:05 PM

:bomb: No problem, Pablo. How much weight did you save shaving the motor terminals? Already been to boot camp USMC.  

 

Where do you get the train wire and how light is it?


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#85 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 09:16 PM

Good comeback, Red.  :laugh2: :good:

 

Please, in the future, make suggestions BEFORE I make permanent decisions.  :laugh2:

 

How many years were you in USMC ?  I have lots of respect for USMC.

 

If you did 20 years, My hat is off to you. If you did four years, then quit, don't even talk to me. :)


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#86 bluecars

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 09:45 PM

Four years was enough. I  enlisted in '69. got real lucky, no jungle. Things were pretty shaky, decided not to press my luck. Used to race Gp20 and open wing cars semi-pro in Bellflower, CA. in the' 70s. My reflexes were a lot better 40 years ago.

 

What about the wires? :dash2:


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#87 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 09:53 PM

Red, that is Marklin Train wire, got it at Amazon.com.

 

Send me a PM if you want a sample.


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#88 bluecars

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 09:59 PM

:crazy: I'd like a sample but what's PM? I know what a BM is but somehow I don't think they're related.  :laugh2:


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#89 Pablo

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 08:03 AM

PM = Private Message. Click on the person's name, then click on "Send Message".

 

Not recommended for regular racing; I'll probably have to replace it after each race


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#90 Courtney S

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 09:42 AM

Pablo,

 

The guys in Jacksonville race the .025" cars and the best tip Rollin and Johnny gave me was to solder in the front of the motor, it was a big help.

 

Great build.


Courtney Smith

#91 Danny Zona

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:27 AM

That is a great suggestion, Courtney. I recomend it on all the flexi cars but especially on the .025" chassis.


KellyRacing
R-GEO

I've been racing in the FL flexi series since 1999 when I started back racing. Just imagine the rules changes I've seen!

#92 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:57 AM

Easiest way to do the front is to use a short piece of 1/8" brass tubing, tack it to the motor, then tack to the chassis. Will keep the motor in place and keep from eating spur gears up in collisions. In GTP we typically run the .025 center with .025 pans and the Bentlee body. I tried the one piece aluminum pans once or twice, and never had that much luck with them.  It seems the SS separate pans gave a little more weight where it was needed and just made the car scream through the donut.  One serious collision with the aluminum pan and the car will not be right the rest of the race.


"... a good and wholesome thing is a little harmless fun in this world; it tones a body up and keeps him human and prevents him from souring." - Mark Twain

#93 John C Martin

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 12:58 PM

Pretty much necessary to solder some type of brace in front of motor. There's way to much flex there if you don't. I have robbed another brace like the one you have on the rear,and put it on front also..
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#94 Pablo

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 01:27 PM

Already done. :D Was shown in my post # 60

Do you recommend more than this ?

 

DSC08272.JPG


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#95 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 02:06 PM

Paul, thats good. Most of the time I'll use a little less lenth than that, and put it closer to the can end, but as long as it's there, it will lock that motor in solid and keep flex out of the rear motor area.  Hint:  Believe it or not, you can actually do a wee bit of tuning sliding that back and forth along the motor. In different tracks around the state, I might have it all the way toward the can end, in the middle, or like you have it there.  That 1.5 gram of weight can change rear end bite just enough......

 

Question for you though...Where did you get the .050 stainless steel bite bar from?  Over the years since it came out, some of the Cheetah 11 chassis came with both .047 bite bars, and some had .051's in them. You can't find .051 piano wire anymore anywhere (I am totally out since giving it most of it away, and .055 is too big), so the .051's I have left are like gold.  I changed most of my .047's over to .051 to take the excess slop out.  Finding some .050's would be great and almost as good. Source??

 

Again, good build, Pablo.  And quite unusual to see you venture away from a classic style rebuild.


"... a good and wholesome thing is a little harmless fun in this world; it tones a body up and keeps him human and prevents him from souring." - Mark Twain

#96 Pablo

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 02:20 PM

Thanks for the tip and info, Michael :good: :good: :good:

 

e-slotcar.com has lengths of .050 SS tubes from 3 different manufacturers - Chassis and Chassis Parts


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#97 Gator Bob

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 03:39 PM

Pablo ....

Why didn't you use the trick motor mounts I sent you ??? :unknw:

Like I showed in the Caddy build.

http://slotblog.net/...e-1#entry420682

 

Also note the wires are fanned out and tinned after feeding through the flag. If you knock a brush out, you might have fits :ireful3:  getting one back during the race.

One more point .. I would .... considering that I read the race reports and the marshals report and to finish first you must first finish .... use a SS tube front axle w/ collars .. lighter stamped/not machined, would could even 'crimp' the tube to hold them in place and not even have to solder'em on  ... to strengthen the alum pans .... and use the 1/2" floppy fronts like Red suggested. Put the wheels on and 'pinch' the end of the tube.  

The way you did the fronts looks very cool but 1 hit and you bend the front up-right you will knock the 'toe' out and might bend the pan bridge.... you follow me?

 

And ... I don't even care if you give the credit to others like you did with the SS pin tube, bite bar and rear brace... :shok:  :laugh2:

 

 

 Notes from the PITS:

- The C-7  was a spec only chassis for that S16D class so weight was not of huge concern .... and it is a .560 big torquer. :bb: Durability was .. because I would not be there to help Nick work on it. - the track folded three classes at once .... now this car has an FK :bad:

- Then I built an alum pan Turboflex Deathstar car and 2 races later THAT class was replaced with Indy cars w/ FK's :bad:  :bad:

 

Nick is pissed ... ain't been back.

 

 

Same crap down here, I start to get tuned and 3 classes got motor changes and two were totally dropped ... That outlawed about 10 cars I built ... now all this IRRA crap on top of it .... I'm about to stick a fork in it.

 

Just sayin. ...  :shout:  Support your local raceways   :dash2:  


Bob Israelite

#98 bluecars

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 04:05 PM

:dash2: OH NO! Not the front wheels Bob-Not the front wheels! :dash2:


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#99 Pablo

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 04:25 PM

Why didn't you use the trick motor mounts I sent you ???

Great catch, Bob, I forgot all about those.  I'll put one in front near the pinion end.

THANKS :D :good: :sun_bespectacled:

 

Also note the wires are fanned out and tinned after feeding through the flag. If you knock a brush out, you might have fits getting one back during the race. If I take a hard hit it's all over for this car anyway. The wires are not even tinned. The raceway I'm building this car for will wait for me to fix a braid.

 

One more point .. I would .... considering that I read the race reports and the marshals report and to finish first you must first finish .... use a SS tube front axle w/ collars .. lighter stamped/not machined, would could even 'crimp' the tube to hold them in place and not even have to solder'em on  ... to strengthen the alum pans .... and use the 1/2" floppy fronts like Red suggested. Put the wheels on and 'pinch' the end of the tube.  

The way you did the fronts looks very cool but 1 hit and you bend the front up-right you will knock the 'toe' out and might bend the pan bridge.... you follow me? I understand, but this car is not designed to crash. It's designed for zero deslots to win a particular race at a particular raceway to beat two or three people who are winning by having rocket light and fast cars and zero deslots.  That's the last time I'm going to say it.  One hard hit and I'm out.


Paul Wolcott

#100 Gator Bob

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 04:48 PM

To quote someone on here (?) .... "Keep it in the slot"  :D

 

I am behind you all the way on this one :victory:  .... I don't know where Red will be ....   :diablo:


Bob Israelite





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