212 replies to this topic

[DOCinCanton]

Is it legal to unseal a Pro Slot 4002BB motor and do stuff like align the brush hoods, swap magnets between cans in an effort to match the magnets, etc. I am talking about things that do not put the motor out-of-spec. Then send the motor unassembled to be refurbed? I would like the official IRRA™ rule.
 
Thank you.

[Pablo]

"Then send the motor unassembled to be refurbed?"

 

  Doc, you are kidding, right?

[Samiam]

 Many have done what you are about to do. Cherry picking stock parts and assembling what you feel is the right set up is legal. It will be checked by the refurb'r for legality,serviced as needed and resealed.

  Many feel this is a waste of time. Others will say it is the way to slot car nirvana. Many podium finishes have been done with bagged off the wall motors. Go for it!

 

I am not an official IRRA source but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[Pablo]

Hold the phone, here, Margaret. 

Are you expecting the refurbisher to ASSEMBLE your motor, Doc ?

Again, and I quote, "Then send the motor unassembled to be refurbed"

Maybe I have gone insane and you are all normal.  Please HELP !!!

Signed, Crazy in Mississippi"

 

Tony P. HELP I'm ready for the straight jacket !!!

Sam says "Many have done what you are about to do"  you have GOT to be kidding.

The refurb guy is going to ASSEMBLE my motor for me ?????

[Pablo]

Doc, here is the rule, in case you cannot find www.irraslotracing.com  :

 

May use any one of the following
motors, which must remain unopened and
unmodified

[The Number of]

The refurb guy is going to ASSEMBLE my motor for me ?????

 

 

   Well they do have to disassemble it to refurb it,so you are just helping out by taking it apart for them,right?

[DOCinCanton]

Pablo, calm down!!!

 

I have NEVER done this because I feel its illegal. However, the question came up at a recent race, and asked by another racer.

 

I vaguely recall that there was a thread on Slotblog maybe a year ago that discussed this matter.  I don't remember how it ended officially.

 

I am asking for a clarification.

[Pablo]

I understand, Doc, and I will calm down   Of course, I don't blame you for asking a legit question.

With respect, Doc. This should have been clarified a LONG time ago.

The ONLY ONLY ONLY person who should be removing that seal is the refurbisher.

 

Yes, I know people have done what you said, and got away with it.  Doesn't make it right.

 

Are you asking IRRA to admit people are breaking the rules ?  This is going to be either a LONG thread, or get locked up real quick, mark my words.

 

One of the refurbishers will only refurb motors he sees as untampered with.

The other refurbisher will refurb any motor that meets specs, regardless of evidence (or lack of) tampering.

But for goodness sake, at least have the class if you are going to break the rules to send in a complete motor.

Sending in an unassembled motor virtually assures to the world you are a cheater.

 

  I am calm, Doc, and thanks for checking my blood pressure, it's only 130/65

[DOCinCanton]

_{WOW!!! This thread has taken off. Nearly 90 reads already. I am impressed with myself. Good Night to all.}

[Pablo]

Tonight, I hereby proclaim you master of the pot-stirring brigade, Sir Doc

 

I see in the race results, you live close to, and race regularly, with Tony P., who happens to be the Motor Chairman for the IRRA Board of Directors. Did you know that ?  Did you ask him your question ?

 

PS just one more question, when you send in your illegal, unassembled, mixed and matched Pro Slot 4002BB to the refurbisher, do you get a free bikini wax with that ? Just kidding, Doc, calm down !

[SlotStox#53]

Interesting concept /question   Instead of even sending your cherry picked unassembled parts just try and procure a roll of the official "sealing tape" all amounts to the same thing really

[Pablo]

3 Day IRRA Event

Airline ticket: $700

Rental car: $200

Hotel: $240

Raceway fees: $50

Parts and Tires: $100

 

And I'm going to pay all this to be competing with cheaters ?

[Tex]

I know this is second-hand info and subject to my misinterpretation/misunderstanding but I "think" one of our local motor builders approached Dan DeBella(sp?) with a similar proposition and was told "No".

[stemmy]

Well my bp is already high and reading stuff like this just makes it worse. Everyone knows the motor rules for irra racing and it's been successful with these rules for years. Let's keep it that way.

[Dennis David]

One reason I don't take racing too seriously.

[Samiam]

 I would encourage everyone who sends a motor in for refurb to mark their set ups. This way you know you got your parts back. You can't engrave your arm w/o opening up the motor.

 As long as parts are not altered or modified then no cheating is going on. All this does is give you a better chance of having a good motor w/o having to buy twenty motors or arms. Who knows,a dud arm may turn out to be a screamer in another set up? Once the seal is applied then you can't open or modify it.

 

.

[Bill from NH]

Other than straightening the can, matching magnets, & aligning the brush hoods, what else is someone going to do to an unassembled motor that the refurb guy isn't going to do or check anyway before applying the seal? If the motors have illegal mods, the refurb guys won't refurb them. I interpert the "May use any one of the following motors, which must remain unopened and unmodified." to mean remain unopened between when the refurbisher seals it & when it is used in a race, not the not ever opened by its owner, at anytime. I can understand why the question was first asked but an opened motor doesn't make it a cheating motor as some seem to think.

[raisin27]

If you are allowed to take your motor apart and "blueprint" it before sending it in for a refurb then the whole sealed motor concept makes no sense.

 

I dont know if its allowed or not, but it shouldnt be.

 

 

Raisin

[DOCinCanton]

raisin27 and Bill NH, hence my question.  I will inform this other driver of whats been posted on here.

 

Pablo, I have not seen TonyP since I was approach about this matter. I have been very interested in how much this practice could be going on.

I am using only ProSlot to refurb my motors recently so only SPEEDFX seals on my motors from now on. If you come to the Viper Pit, we can talk about this matter.  I am still upset concerning about what I think happened during some refurbs last December and January.

[Wizard Of Iz]

Doc .... check out Bill Pinch's comments on this matter and the replies on the GRRR page on Facebook

[Danny Zona]

I've never done what Doc has mentioned. To much work for me and I couldn't do it if I wanted to. I always have hawk eyes on me and I fell its not the spirit of the rule. But from what I hear from the grape vine its a common practice and some type of grey area. So please don't blame Doc for asking the question.

[Pablo]

Understood, Doc, it's a totally valid thread.

The thing that maybe I'm not understanding is your definition of the word: "unassembled".
To me, "unassembled" means taken down 100%, mags out, hardware off, bushings out.
Instead of "unassembled", maybe you mean "can open" ??
To me, there is a world of difference.... I don't think the refurb guy is going to install your mags and hardware, etc. !!

Other than that, I'm onboard with your subject 100%.
IRRA should have fixed this a LONG time ago.....

[Chris Barnes]

This has been a practice for some in the past - even some racers in "reputable" positions.  Also, I think that ProSlot has, in the past, re-sealed motors after inspecting them and approving their legality.  I think Dan is fed up with the complaining and now took a stand.

 

You know, there is still a $75 protest fee in place, if anyone thinks that a motor may be illegal.

 

As for a refurber "assembling" a motor, I seriously doubt either one has ever put a motor together from scratch as a refurb (agreeing with you Pablo) - especially for $15.  Definitely

not a profit making venture.

[Hworth08]

I asked the same question about blueprinting and changing parts from one motor to another in the beginning, when the rules were being formed, and the answer was yes. Rule could have changed though?

 

A good, serious racer can match parts from several motors and find superior combinations. He'll also find different motors work real well in different chassis. Ask JC Martin how many motors he tried at the Nationals in PA around 2005.

[Michael Rigsby]

This is a good question to ask, and Doc asked it in good faith.  It is definitely a grey area in the rules as I read them.  By stating it must remain unopened, I would take that to mean that the motor must not be tampered with after the refurbisher does his thing, and then applies the tamper proof seal.  Nothing in concrete said about the owner of the motor combining parts from several and then sending them in to be refurbed and sealed since they are all legal parts.  This kind of "cherry picking" has been going on forever in all kinds of racing, and I know it has happened in GRRR from talking to a few racers (and don't aske me to name names, because I won't embarass anyone). As long as all the parts going into the motor are legal and the refurbisher can see they are and applies his seal, then what is the harm? I know I certainly would want to mark a really good arm to be sure that I got it back after hearing about some motors coming back with swapped parts that were not in the motor originally.

 

Unless it's written in stone in the rules, then folks are going to do this.

 

You want to make it different, then get out the chisel and grab a large stone and spell it out where it's absolutely clear to one and all.

 

I have some retro cars I built up and keep aiming to race them when GRR comes to Jax, but its usually on a Sunday after I work six days and I'm pooped.  I have a couple of motors I would like to send off, but have held off because they are not great motors by any means (rather doggy), and don't know if I want to spend the money to refurb them or just buy two new motors (which are overpriced for what you get btw). So an answer to this question would enlighten me also before I spend bucks.