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Retro tuning tips & tricks


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#1 Noose

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:11 PM

We also have a section on the website. As I can gets guys to write articles we will post them. Some are already there of course.

The first tip every racer should follow is to maximize what you are allowed to do. For example, I know Matt and I have told many racers they should set their cars with the wheels at the maximum width allowed. You'd be surprised at how may cars I see in tech where they aren't.

 

Another are the clearances. How many guys every check theirs after putting a new set of fronts on?

Use the handy dandy quick tech list and ask yourself if you met all of those at the max allowed.


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#2 gascarnut

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:39 PM

For example, I know Matt and I have told many racers they should set their cars with the wheels at the maximum width allowed. You'd be surprised at how may cars I see in tech where they aren't.

 

Sometimes there's a good reason to be narrow, at the rear at least. In front, I agree - all the way to the limit, but at the back it depends on what the car is doing.


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#3 Gator Bob

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:40 PM

Here is one from the chassis god himself.

 

"Check/reset your front axle (clearance) after every race." "That's why I never wire wrap the uprights.."

 

Now... will he tell me any more tricks... LOL.


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#4 gascarnut

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:42 PM

Here is one from the chassis god himself.

 

"Check / reset your front axle (clearance) after every race." "That's why I never wire wrap the uprights.."

 

Now ... will he tell me anymore tricks ... LOL

 

Wire-wrapped axles can be adjusted.

 

It's all in how you wrap them...


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#5 Gator Bob

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:45 PM

Dennis, do you mean like to only one upright post or the tension of the wrap... other? 


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#6 gascarnut

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 02:28 PM

Bob, this is the best shot I could find to explain:
 
DeMott Z rail 004.jpg
 
The wire wraps around the uprights and goes over and under the axle. If you heat up the whole area, then the wire slides along the uprights to adjust the height. Good amounts of heat, and lots of flux.
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#7 gascarnut

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 04:50 PM

This one applies especially when talking about motors, especially if you like to use screws to hold the motor into the frame:

 

Are you sure that both the motor bracket AND the motor end plate are flat and square?

 

There's not much you can do legally if the motor is out of square, except solder it in so that you don't rely on the screws, but if the bracket is not flat you need to do something. Find a flat file about 1/8" narrower than the motor bracket face. You want to use the biggest, thickest, stiffest, flattest file you can find that will fit. Then file the motor mounting surface of the bracket slowly, making sure the whole of the suirface is touching the file and moving just a little back and forth keeping the file in contact with the whole surface. You will see whether the face is flat very quickly by the file marks on the surface. File it all until you have file marks across the whole surface where the motor will mount, and especially all the way round the holes where the screws go. This all could be done before the bracket is soldered into the frame, but in my experience it works better if you can do it afterwards, as then the bracket is already in its final position and is not going to move much.

 

Now when you screw in a motor, put the screws in loosely at first. Hook the motor up to a power supply at low voltage (3 volts or so) and look at the current draw. Then watch what happens to the current draw as you tighten the screws, and listen to the sound of the motor. If anything is out of flat, you will find the revs go down and the current draw goes up. If that's the case, you need to fix something. Either the bracket is still not fully flat, or the face of the motor is not flat. More filing might help, and check that the solder joint that holds the ball bearing into a PD motor is not fouling on the bracket hole. I like to put a big chamfer on the center hole of the bracket to avoid this.

 

I had one FK motor so bad that when the screws were tightened the armature would not turn. Without modifying anything, the only way to use it was to solder it in.

 

This is also one explanation of why a motor that runs well in one car may not run so well in another.

 

As most have been saying, "the difference is in the details".


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#8 Gator Bob

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 05:02 PM

Exactly!
 
And... with the Pro Slot motors the 'ears' must be checked for square also. I only screw motors in and they can bend in a wreck... much more so with the older 'thin' can.

Another thing is with the 4002B-B the hole in the motor bracket must be chamfered or opened up to fit properly. Do this step before mounting the bracket, it's a pain to chamfer after assembly.
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#9 Bernie

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 05:06 PM

Dennis,

You rule. Never thought about the flatness of the motor bracket. Makes a whole lot of sense. I will be checking ALL my cars now! :good:
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#10 Cheater

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 05:16 PM

We used to do something kind of similar with Flexi chassis.

Once the car was assembled and the motor, axle, gears, and tires were in place, you'd run the car on a power supply at a pretty decent voltage and use a soldering iron to heat up the motor-securing solder joint at the top of the motor bracket. Often the RPM of the motor would increase as any stresses in the motor mounting were relieved.

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#11 gascarnut

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 05:53 PM

Nice build...


Thanks!

 

I don't play with the F1 cars but I see that you tilt the uprights out to help support the 'over exposed' axle and I also saw that in SCRRA you are allowed (legal) to have "A frame" or wide stamped uprights.


Yes, the A-frames are allowed in SCRRA, but I don't use them, as I like my cars to be universally legal.
 

So looking at the picture the wire is 'not' in a figure 8 wrap... correct?


Correct, no figure 8. Just wrapped around the outside for three turns.

 

Does canting of the uprights with the wire wrap make it more difficult to reset the ride height?


Not much, but it does require good heat to melt the whole joint at once. As the axle moves down (or up), the wrapping wire slides along the upright and then inward (or outward) along the axle a little.
 
Re-setting a front axle that is wrapped always requires multiple heating and cooling, as you have to do one side a little than the other side, and go back and forth until everything is in the new position. I usually will end up by re-fluxing and introducing a little extra solder right at the end to ensure a good joint.


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#12 gascarnut

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 05:56 PM

Dennis,

You rule. Never thought about the flatness of the motor bracket. Makes a whole lot of sense. I will be checking ALL my cars now! :good:

 
Thanks, Bernie.
 
You can check the frames you got from me, but they should still be OK. I do this to all frames during the build process, but I would check them whenever you have the motors out as sometimes they can twist a bit in a crash.

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#13 slotcarone

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 07:10 PM

This is why you may have heard me say I spend an hour blueprinting the bracket before I do anything else. If you have a chassis that I built you should be able to screw in the motor with no binding. I also build the chassis with a motor attached to the bracket. Good use for FK motors!!
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#14 MSwiss

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:05 PM

 Are you sure that both the motor bracket AND the motor end plate are flat and square?

 

Dennis made a great point.

 

Not only will a flat bracket ensure not binding up the motor when tightening the screws, a nice fit of the bracket and motor face will ensure better heatsinking capability of the bracket.

 

Below are pics of two different motor brackets and you can see the difference between stamping the blank and forming it vs a CNC machined bracket.

 

100_0098.jpg

 

100_0094.jpg

 

100_0099.jpg

 

100_0101.jpg


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#15 Samiam

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 07:25 AM

More... more...
 
More details on brushes and springs.
Best height to set guide for braid depth.
What do you do for a loose car/track?
How do you make tire choice?
Where and why do you place lead?
What is that orange stuff I see on some chassis?
Front tires... hard or soft? Coated or not?
Body... forward or back?
Spoiler... yes, no? angle? size?
What type of chassis for type of track and conditions?
Pan movement... type and amount? 
Gearing... how do you determine best ratio for particular track and conditions?
 
Thanks!
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#16 Gator Bob

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:15 AM

Who'da hell are you? What'da ya think I am... a piano (wire) tuner?   :sarcastic_hand:
 

More... more...
 
More details on brushes and springs.


Please refer to your rule book. :D
 

Best height to set guide for braid depth.


Set it ON the track you are running... on a flat section that seems to be representative of the 'average' or "shallowest' braid depth ... right at the point that if the cars braids are flat and the fronts 'just' touch. If you touch a front and the opposite rear lifts us less/thinner spacer(s).
 

What do you do for a loose car/track?[


Softer tires, more spoiler angle, possibly more weight to the rear, mount body farther back, less gear (lower numerical ratio) if you are blowing the tires off the car.
 

How do you make tire choice?


Hard as I can get away with. Harder tires have less rolling resistance.
 

Where and why do you place lead?


Anywhere it needs it to balance out the car.
 

What is that orange stuff I see on some chassis?


Silicone rubber tape... used to dampen vibration or hammering of the pans.
 

Front tires... hard or soft? Coated or not?


Hard on commercial tracks! Coating is personal preference or track dependent, may cause vibration, consider truing after application.
 

Body... forward or back?


See above.
 

Spoiler... yes, no? angle? size?


Yes, as big as the rule allows. Angle, as flat as you can get away with (see above). No, if you can actually get away with driving it, LOL.
 

What type of chassis for type of track and conditions?


The $64,000 question.
 

Pan movement... type and amount?


See above... Amount... depends on which direction... LOL.
 

Gearing... how do you determine best ratio for particular track and conditions?


As low (numerical) of a ratio as you can go with consideration to motor temp, braking (two keys), and also torque to car weight ratio... see above.


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#17 John C Martin

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 05:08 PM

Sam, you're right most people won't give up their secrets to tuning... I aways have for what I do. They're all my opinion of course...

 

I think the spring tension is to much on PD motors (twieak, bend them to let the tension off slightly). Of course you'll gain RPM, but lose some brake, and lose some motor heat... and my best motor man suggests Big Foot 2 brushes, with Koford springs, 1301 I believe is the number.

 

Guide height IMO is just barely not touching front tires, I mean barely. I like to run the car several laps to see if they have raised the car too much to where the car will tilt out (usually the doughnut). My feeling is in a couple of lanes braid will be worn enough they'll still be making full contact and the tires will start to touch more.

 

Also the guide should slightly be tilted up at 3/32". Under front of guide with the guide not in a slot... so braid wears back to front. Of course this brings front tire height down also, so with tires up slightly, maybe only 5 thou, car is prime throughout the race...

 

Weight is where people disagree (back to tighten or loosen). As with anything there are limits or extremes... think of it this way, if you put hard tires on your car, are you going to gain traction by adding more weight to rear? (No). Way to fix it is softer tires... treated or untreated.

 

Testing is the answer to everything, hardest tire that hooks up to where it punches the doughnut... LOL.more weight in the rear is not my remedy for a loose car, slightly softer tire is, treated or untreated.

Besides my opinion is the weight in rear actually helps loosen the car with centrifugal force. I do like weight on the inside rear of a doughnut, for balance..

 

Body... high speed tracks don't require much spoiler (you'll kill straightaway speed.) Bend spoiler back and lower the back of body. With the hardest tire that'll punch the doughnut... test,test test, you're set.

 

Longer bodies can make the most downforce; also longest portion behind rear wheels as possible makes more downforce. More body in front makes more downforce on front. So to me downforce can equal weight front or rear (as with a wing car, no weight but tremendous downforce).

 

Pan movement... I like more movement. Forward to back and a little side to side, just a little...

 

Spoiler up for flatter tracks... down or thin for higher speed tracks.

 

At larger races the track will change due to temps in the building, glue conditions at beginning of day, and rubber build-up as day goes on... so it's a continuing test and change of tires to keep up with track conditions... this is why the best guys are on the track lots.

 

Gearing... I like to gear for not the longest straight but the shorter or medium one... say on a King the straight from the finger to the bridge (want most punch and best brakes in that section). Races are won on backsides, not the big straight.

 

Like I said these are my opinions...

 

I can only hope you guys that are fast will do the same. These are just toys, let's help our brothers... share your secrets..


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#18 John Streisguth

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:12 PM

Sam, if you ask the guys at the Retro East races they'll be more than happy to make suggestions. As both John and Bob have said, test and then test some more.  Not easy to do on race day so you may have to keep it simple, like tires and spoiler angle. After a while it becomes second nature.

 

One thing I have found that makes a big difference for me is to set up the guide depth for the shallowest braid section on the track. If I am setting up at home, I will err on the side of having it 5 thou too high. I have found if you set it too deep you will "tip out" where ever there is a shallow braid depth. This seems to be especially important on older tracks that have not been rebraided well.


"Whatever..."

#19 MSwiss

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:42 PM

Guide height IMO is just barely not touching front tires, I mean barely. I like to run the car several laps to see if they have raised the car to much to where the car will tilt out (usually in the doughnut). My feeling is in a couple of lanes braid will be worn enough they'll still be making full contact and the tires will start to touch more.


Another excellent suggestion.
 
I found the best way to check if they do, assuming the braid height is approx. the same on the straightaway, is to floor it out of the lead on, and "slam on the brakes", so the car stops in front of you.
 
If your fronts are still spinning, you need to pull .005" of shim out, until they don't.
 
Checking is easier if you are using BB fronts and with an F1 car.
 
With a Can-Am, GT Coupe, or Stocker, put a dot of contrasting paint on the outer wall of the tire you'll see from the driver's panel.
 
BTW, speaking of BB fronts, you know you have good ones if, when you fall off and walk over to get your car, they are still spinning.

Mike Swiss
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#20 Hworth08

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 11:16 PM

A new racer can get a lot of info from Cheater's Champion T-Flex Tome.

Much of the info applies to all big-scale slot cars.

The tome is great for a checklist before going to the track too.


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#21 Gator Bob

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 11:50 PM

Tip.

Check to be sure the lead wires or motor tabs are not touching the body or the interior in full travel of the pans or full side to side or even downforce flex of the body.


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#22 Danny Zona

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 07:57 AM

I would listen to all of the racer's tips. The key is to go out on the track and test, test, test, then test some more. Never settle on just being fast. There is always more speed out there with some type of adjustments.

 

Sometimes its as simple as driving through a turn different that can take a .10 off your lap time. Just ask Jay Guard. LOL. He was going too soft in a turn at the Viper Pit race and I was like, "Jay, you have to hit the turn harder". He did and gained a tenth.


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#23 John C Martin

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 08:13 AM

The thing I see for newer racers I think is too much tape holding the interior in. I use the very minimum, letting it sag slightly in front... ideal is the body will twist and flex front to rear, and not be bound-up with a tightly-taped interior. I'm also very weight conscious in the body department, paint especially...

Danny, you're right... lots and lots of practice and testing is key. You and Biscuit do it more than anyone and it shows... although Tony P. was a close second; he's aways does great.


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#24 John C Martin

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 02:44 PM

Another little tip I just started doing to keep the pins in the body.

 

I put a very small dot of (9001 Surebonder high strength clear adhesive) on the outside on top of the pin head. It also adds some strength to the area around it... pins will stay with the body, no need to put those big bends in the pins.

 

After taking off 29 Can-Am bodies for the Viper Pit pictures some were really too tight... and some pin holes in the bodies were really worn out. This tip would have prevented that.

 

PS: Superglue is too brittle, the flexible adhesive works best.



#25 Cap Henry

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 08:11 AM

Here are a few things I do that haven't been mentioned yet.

 

I run all my Retro cars riding on the fronts. With the car in the slot you should be able to see the frame bow slightly without picking up the rear tires. Make sure the guide is always bent up slightly at the front, and new braids every race.

 

Make sure the body doesn't hit any part of the chassis or motor when it flops side to side.

 

Use good quality lead wire, replace it anytime it looks kinked or damaged.

 

Don't let the body drag the track

The single biggest piece of advice that hasn't been mentioned, is to learn how to tune your car between lanes. Things such as spoiler angle, taping the pans to limit movement, tire cleaning. Last year at Fall Brawl some tuning work from Mike Muir and Wes P changed my race from running last to second.


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#26 John C Martin

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 03:28 PM

Right, Cap. If I'm in a halfway bad wreck I'll look at the front of chassis on a tech block to see if tires are still at the same distance off the block as they should be.

 

I noticed at Viper Pit the chassis was twisting in the right front from the high speed in the blue King's bank, (putting the right front tire up slightly), making the car tilt a little too much in the lead-on, as it had right front up from the downforce in the bank.



#27 Cheater

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 05:54 AM

This thread has been split off from another thread, as suggested by several members. Because the posts were originally posted elsewhere, the flow of the conversation may seem a little disjointed.


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#28 Dominator

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 09:40 AM

Bodies make a difference and having the right body mounted right helps alot.  Here is how I mount a few of my "go to" bodies.  These measurements are based off a 4" wheel base with 7/8"-15/16" guide lead.  For those that run a 1" guide lead you may need to push the body forward a 1/16" depending on the body.  Once I have the rear and nose heights measured and marked I use a peice of tape to get a even cut.  Put the body over the chassis while it is sitting off it's wheels and pin. 

 

Body dimensions.PNG


A motor is only as fast as the chassis it's in.

 

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NERR photos from 2012-April 2016

 

NERR photos from 2016 to now


#29 W. J. Dougherty

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 09:53 AM

Dom,

 

So you don't max out the rear end height...  Do you still add the 1/2" spoiler?  Is this the same for all tracks or just high speed tracks?

 

 

Thanks,


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#30 Dominator

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:29 AM

I do still add the 1/2" spoiler. I use the same height for all tracks though I would like to try some lower mounts for King tracks. Since most of the tracks in New England are flatter style having the body higher just seems to make the car tip out more.  I did try the max height initially but found the lower mount to be more driveable. I usually stick with an .010" spoiler.   


A motor is only as fast as the chassis it's in.

 

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NERR photos from 2012-April 2016

 

NERR photos from 2016 to now


#31 gascarnut

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 12:06 PM

Thanks to Greg for splitting this thread out. It looks like it will be a valuable source of information.

 

But please, manufacturers, let's not use this as a platform for promoting individual products; the Parts Counter is the place for that.


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#32 John C Martin

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:59 AM

When cutting the body out, say on the line, in the area of the pin hole instead of cutting fender opening to fender opening, leave a 1/4" tab at bottom. Then crease the tab under, folding it flat to the underside of the body. The fold will be stronger than the cut reinforcement stuff. Then I cut pieces of doublestick tape and stick this to the tabs, trim to fit. The tabs are then folded to underside of body. If the mounting holes are close to back or front of wheel openings just extend tabs and tape.

I use big head pins obtained at fabric stores, the big pins are slightly larger diameter also. Before pushing pin in put a small dab of the 9001 clear adhesive over the pin hole,then push pin in slightly, before it makes contact with adhesive go to the backside and PULL pin in until it makes contact then push back out 10 thou. This puts glue on inner face of pin, then put a very small dab on pin head.



#33 Samiam

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 12:25 PM

When painting a body I leave the area around the pin tubes clear. Makes seeing the pin tube so much easier. After adding bulletproofing and tape the area is opaque and within the rules.


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#34 John C Martin

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 01:37 PM

Another use for the clear adhesive on Can-Am bodies... they'll usually spilt at the top of front fender well, or in the valley in the underside of the fins just behind front wheel. After this happens squirt some of this adhesive on a piece of paper then take a toothpick and roll some of the adhesive up there, and get many more races out of body. If it happens at a big race in Friday practice it will be cured enough overnight to race on Saturday. On F1s they split over the front axle, put a skin of this stuff on this little spot. Ideally put this stuff in these places before the wrecks...

This stuff is great on putting interiors in also (Can-Am/ F1). Leave 1/4" square tab in the very front of interior. I put one small dot of adhesive on tab and small dot on where it'll contact body. It says on tube to stick together then separate for a few minutes before pressing together, for faster drying time. I make sure the roll bar is touching back of cockpit. I can let interior sag in back or tack it with the glue where the roll bar makes contact, leaving about 1/8" drop for air flow over windshield for motor cooling... no tape at all needed,and body flexes more.

Yep, Sam, I usually cut and pin the body before paint. I can use the above process in the other thread the same way, just wait until paint dries before applying the doublestick tape to the tabs.



#35 gascarnut

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 02:09 PM

Interesting how many guys glue the body pins to the body in some manner. Seems to me this comes over from wing car racing?

 

I have always made a slightly large hole in the body and whatever body armor I use around the hole and then put a slight bend in the pin so it is tight in the tube. Then I don't push the pin in hard, and the body has a nice little bit of "rattle" on the pin tubes. This is especially nice on a Jail Door frame where there is no pan movement.

 

Of course, when you take them out they fall right out of the body so you have to be careful if the body needs to come off during a pit stop!


Edited by gascarnut, 10 September 2013 - 12:49 PM.

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#36 John C Martin

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 02:25 PM

Dennis, they would probably use super glue. To me it makes it too brittle in and the around the hole.

 

I actually had that area split right off when I pulled the body off when I tried super glue. A flexible adhesive seems to work best... but your idea is great also. Those (ninja stars) would work awesome there... of course glued on with adhesive... LOL.

 

Maybe do your way in rear, my way in front or vice versa... Two less pins to fall out... LOL.



#37 Dominator

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:03 PM

After cutting my body "on the line", once I have cut out the wheel wells, I cut a 1/2" wide piece of clear straping tape and fold it over the edge. This helps prevent the bottom edge from tearing also while reinforcing the nose a bit.


A motor is only as fast as the chassis it's in.

 

Dominic Luongo

 

NERR photos from 2012-April 2016

 

NERR photos from 2016 to now


#38 Cap Henry

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 12:02 PM

I like to always try to lightly true new tires so that they have an even cut, I find it a lot of times helps make the car more consistent. I try to just barely grind them, basically just knock any high spots out.

I always true my fronts (JK) down so that both tires are equal size and round. Can-Am cars I usually use a .760-.765" front while F1s get .765-.770" since the fronts don't interfere with the body. This leaves plenty of wear room for both style of cars.


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#39 John C Martin

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 02:19 PM

Okay... different lead wires for different tracks.

Ralph Thorne Racing's lead wires... I've watched Ralph's and others using his stiffer lead wire blast through doughnuts, stuck like glue. Any sweeping turn the car is tight, not much drift at all... doesn't take much thinking it's the stiffer lead wire.

Okay... on high speed sweeping I'll use this stiffer wire...

Now, Kelly racing has a ultra light lead wire at 2 grams lighter than your standard wire per car. Trick is it's very fine strands andwill break off from clips if done in same way as other wire soldering to clips is done.

The way I'm attaching them with added protection is when I solder wires to clips, I leave as much of the wires insulation as possible and super glue it to top of guide clips ( using thick super glue). Then I take heat shrink at 3/4" long, slice the bottom half off about 1/4" back from guide end and slide this over the solder to clip connection... then heat the heat shrink. After this I use thick super glue the heat shrink tubing on the guide clips. Using the standard wiring loops, I slide another 1/4" piece of the heat shrink down to hold both lead wires together.

 

Okay... I said all that to say this car is faster on tracks with stiffer wire on big sweeping turn tracks.

Stiffer wire for me doesn't work as well on tracks with tighter turns; the car will push out quicker.

The ultra-lightweight wire works better on tighter tracks like road courses... and I'm 2 grams lighter.

Okay now I'm taking two different sets of wires to the different tracks I'll race. They're already attached to the clips so all I do is pull them out and change them to  adapt to track configurations or glue conditions, if I think I can use stiffer wire or lighter more flexible wire.

 

Just another fun deal to tune with...



#40 Tex

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 02:34 PM

I need to go back and read this whole thread... good insight above.


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#41 John C Martin

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 07:59 AM

More ramblings
on lead wire / bodies / tires..
Reasons I think stiffer wire sometimes ..Of course car is mechanically tighter,some tracks too tight.. If not too tight I'm thinking faster, why because rear of car is tracking in corners others are not maybe fresher glue? If car is tighter that will maybe enable me to run a little harder tire or bigger hub, that'll equal faster straight as well as faster bank speed..
Okay the body kicked out in a turn creates side force, this is actually slowing the car to a point,but necessary to keep a loose car in slot..
For instance go down the road 70 mph take @ a 2' piece of gutter hold it out the window of the car ( real car ) try to turn it side to side,impossible.gutter wants to straighten itself, and push your arm back,, Aero ..I can't think of an instance when the can- am bodies without the higher side dams would be more beneficial ..Just as wing cars wouldn't handle as well without side wings.
So with stiffer wire car is tighter and less air is scrubbed off from side drift..slight I know but still there..plus there's the area of the track where there's no surface (the slot and all that slickum that transferred to the braids). I may not be running rear tires in that as much..
Tires I think that goes with the tightness in the turns achieved.. If I can run at least one harder tire ( that'll be outside on the bank,to carry more speed ,inside in the doughnut.more grip. And on a king track I prefer a tick loose car in the lead on which is where the harder outside tire helps..Lots more testing there...
Stiffer wire....harder tire... More side dams. ..O...MY..
I could just run the same wire 95 percent of racers run?
Nah!! This is fun playing and trying different things to be better..and it is fun..

#42 Pablo

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 06:19 PM

Different brands of braid are different thicknesses.....use this as a tuning/ride height method.


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#43 John C Martin

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:52 AM

This one simple but useful and quick. Use double face tape to stick your lead on in tuning your car at the track, so you can move it till you find that sweet spot..then pull backing paper or glue on used lead, that adhesive I talked about earlier works great for sticking the lead on it will take a hit as it stays flexible, also it will peal off if you need to remove it..( unlike super glue )( I never throw lead away).
When you're handling at your best make sure your tires still tech.. You can tune all you want but if you're not keeping up with the tire tech & clearances during your tuning sessions you may be fooling yourself.( of course you'll handle better with low tires ) but as Noose says " NO TECH FOR YOU !! Checking rear clearance often during practice is a must for me...
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#44 Noose

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:23 AM

I posted this comment in the F1 Body Mounting thread and thought it might be useful here.

 

One thing I have done on both my CORT blocks is to mount a strip of .010 lexan on the front.  I have found that when I cut the body on the trim line, or where I think it is on some bodies, using this method ensures enough clearance in the front especially if you have rear to fore lift built into your frame i.e shaker or plumber.


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#45 John C Martin

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 10:04 AM

Now about braid depth .Check several places on older tracks especially ,they're usually varying greatly, the turns get re-glued often and glue layers are built up under braid..I know of a few tracks where it's recessed .15 in straight and .15 above in some turns..some even worse ..one track that even tears hunks out of tires in one place in black (Marietta).You just try to find the happy middle. Burnt braid is sometimes the result of this up and down recessing. Mineral ridge, ohio braid was so high in red and white it was actually stapled down in the bank ( tri-oval where the nats were held ) that was something that caused several crashes..
Some tracks have waves (causing wheel hop) in bad places like viper pit king black lane after lap counter, before dead man turn..Or Snellville exiting bank in red lane, (requiring a blip).
Yes most tracks have character some more than others. Trick is finding them or they'll find you..

#46 John C Martin

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 02:05 PM

I know they ain't cheap... but still the cheapest horsepower there is...

 

New braid was worth 2 tenths here...

 

I start the race with new braid and pull them out and flip them over at mid-race.

 

image.jpg



#47 Danny Zona

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 04:03 PM

Now about braid depth .Check several places on older tracks especially ,they're usually varying greatly, the turns get re-glued often and glue layers are built up under braid..I know of a few tracks where it's recessed .15 in straight and .15 above in some turns..some even worse ..one track that even tears hunks out of tires in one place in black (Marietta).You just try to find the happy middle. Burnt braid is sometimes the result of this up and down recessing. Mineral ridge, ohio braid was so high in red and white it was actually stapled down in the bank ( tri-oval where the nats were held ) that was something that caused several crashes..
Some tracks have waves (causing wheel hop) in bad places like viper pit king black lane after lap counter, before dead man turn..Or Snellville exiting bank in red lane, (requiring a blip).
Yes most tracks have character some more than others. Trick is finding them or they'll find you..

Hey JC, you remember when the garbage bag holding the water dripping from the roof fell on the track? I believe Biscuit got blamed for it falling. Lol

Also, during the race a car fell in a bucket of water.
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#48 tonyp

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 04:08 PM

I am sure Biscuit was responsible...LOL


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#49 John C Martin

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 05:42 PM

Hey, JC, you remember when the garbage bag holding the water dripping from the roof fell on the track? I believe Biscuit got blamed for it falling. LOL.

Also, during the race a car fell in a bucket of water.


Yes, Miserable Ridge on the trioval. You couldn't do much more damage to that raceway. And that was a Nats race, wow...

I would not put that past Biscuit... I remember what he did to the modern plumbing??? in the restroom... Poor Dan...
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#50 John C Martin

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 04:32 PM

EDIT: I have found a different (better) way...

I've since gone to standard size pins. Do not bend them to hold them in. Instead I now use E6000 adhesive to hold the pins in the body.

After using the Gear Aid Tenacious Tape inside and out, pull the pin back out of the hole, push the pinhead into the tube surrounding the head, then pull the pin the rest of the way into the body..

Now I make sure the pins installed are perpendicular to the body and level or even front to back.. Reason: after this dries overnight I pin the body on the chassis. If pins were even and perpendicular they'll slide in and out of the pin tubes easily. This lets the body move side to side yet it's in a relaxed self-centering position, sorta spring loaded. Bodies are not bound with bent pins against the pans. Tons more side flex, yet body probably only pitches 1/8" in a high speed turn.

The longer full length standard pin is a slightly smaller diameter versus the big head this helps the pins slide, gives a slight more giggle in the tubes, and the longer pins won't let the body exit the chassis... LOL.

In my last big race at Peachtree City on a high speed Gerding King this method was best I had. Hammered in the 90 and punched in every lane in the doughnut , never done that on red before. Car was crazy unforgivable, only slight wreck in red at the lead-on.
 
PS: Not doable on F1s.
 
image.jpg
 
image.jpg





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