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New Falcon 7 motor


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#1 Fiddler

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 09:43 PM

Been out of the loop a while, is this motor available yet, and is it SCRRA legal? If this has been addressed, well, opps. Just wondering. Perhaps I'll find out more this Sat at BPR. Thanks.


Tom Eatherly




#2 Toni-Lee Neilson

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 03:38 AM

We can get the new Falcon's in NZ, so they must be out. Pretty sure I read on here somewhere that it has been approved for racing. 



#3 Zippity

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 06:05 AM

No new Falcons are available in New Zealand.
 
We will be racing the JK Hawk 7 in its place at the Nationals in six weeks time. :)

#4 TSR

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:44 AM

The Falcon 7 motors will be at your distributor by the end of next week. Buena Park raceway will have them over the counter at the same time.

 

Since there are no technical changes that would affect performance, the motor needs not be re-submitted to the SCRRA board. Think of it as restocking and nothing else.


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#5 The Bugman

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 09:20 AM

Now... they have to be tested and approved by our fabulous BoA :crazy: ... at SCRRA.
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#6 Foamy

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:38 PM

. . . of course it will be. . .


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preferably one with a really awesome musical number for no apparent reason."

 


#7 redbackspyder

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 03:19 PM

PDL,  how can you make that statement without testing the new Motors?  Are we going to get into the situation that the IRRAtm got itself into with the supposedly equal Chinese and American armed motors, only to find out that some had less turns of wire than others ?   The samples you and Bryan tested were all over the board, so I do not think you can make the blanket statement that these motors are the same unless you physically tested them, which I do not think you or anyone else has done.......

 

What if these things were found to be either rockets or dogs, would you just blanket approve them, just because you finally got your shipment.....


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#8 TSR

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 03:39 PM

PDL,  how can you make that statement without testing the new Motors?

 

Very easily:

whatever was tested was rejected, the decision was made to keep the motor the way it was and the spec remains the same as before. I hope that this simple statement makes things clear enough?


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Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#9 The Bugman

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 03:50 PM

i'll still bet they gotta be TESTED & APPROVED by SCRRA Officials before we get to use them,,

no matter what Mr PdL thinks or says


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#10 gascarnut

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 05:50 PM

 
Very easily:
whatever was tested was rejected, the decision was made to keep the motor the way it was and the spec remains the same as before. I hope that this simple statement makes things clear enough?


So, no long shaft on the comm side?
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#11 Toni-Lee Neilson

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:00 PM

No new Falcons are available in New Zealand.
 
We will be racing the JK Hawk 7 in its place at the Nationals in six weeks time. :)

Buggered if I know then. The others guys at the TGA club told me that Gill (HP) had the new motors in stock last week and was selling them. Either way it doesn't effect me as I still have 2 good used motors and 3 brand new ones still. (old style)



#12 TSR

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:06 PM

Toni-Lee,

It is possible that HP has some F7s in stock because I was told that one of the US distributors had shipped a batch to NZ in the past 60 days, possibly in view of the Nats. Regardless, if he does not and needs some there is ample time to get them over there now.


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#13 redbackspyder

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 09:43 PM

Hopefully, the new Falcon 7 is the same as before, but before I go buying lots of them, I would certainly want to know that they were tested, broken down , and made sure of that they were no different than the ones before.... That is called Quality Control, and I deal with the Chinese on a weekly basis, getting hundreds of thousands of different components, and even though you may have ordered one thing, another thing comes in....... 

 

PDL, have you tested any of them yourself ?  I am talking about these new ones....


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#14 Zippity

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 10:56 PM

As far as the NZ Nats are concerned, the Falcon has gone the way of the dinosaurs and has been replaced by the faster Hawk 7.

 

Of course you may want to, and can, race a Falcon - it will just be slower than the rest :(

 

I understand that the Falcon will be "the" motor again, early next year when the Hawk 7 will be banned.



#15 Fiddler

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 07:30 AM

Why are the Hawk 7's being banned? They're banned here in a few places as well. Racers seem to like them, then poof!

It would be nice to have a ready available motor when needed instead of waiting so long. Juuust curious.


Tom Eatherly

#16 Toni-Lee Neilson

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 08:39 AM

As far as the NZ Nats are concerned, the Falcon has gone the way of the dinosaurs and has been replaced by the faster Hawk 7.

 

Of course you may want to, and can, race a Falcon - it will just be slower than the rest :(

 

I understand that the Falcon will be "the" motor again, early next year when the Hawk 7 will be banned.

 

When I was talking to the guys about the 2 motors they told me that it was only for this year because of the shortage of the Falcon 7's. They were the ones that told me that Gill had the new motors in stock now, but due to the fact the allowance had already been made to use the Hawk motor it was too late to change back for this year.  I just had a look at his web site and he is only taking pre-orders for the 26th. They have been using the Hawk motors lately for club racing just to get used to them before the Nats. The Hawk motor is the faster of the 2 for sure. 

NEW!

PREORDER NOW

Due in 26th September

TSRF TRM02

NEW VERSION TSRF Falcon 7

Motor 51,000+ RPM

Stronger and better than the previous model

 

By the way are you guys using Race coordinator for your timing?. If so, are you going to put the Nats live on the net. I see Dave has added this feature into the program now. 


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#17 Toni-Lee Neilson

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 08:51 AM

Why are the Hawk 7's being banned? They're banned here in a few places as well. Racers seem to like them, then poof!
It would be nice to have a ready available motor when needed instead of waiting so long. Juuust curious.


At a guess they want to keep everyone on a leven playing field. Everyone wants the edge by having the best motor. If the rules keep on changing it can be a bit frustrating trying to keep up with buying the latest motors. I personally think the Turbo Flex/Falcon combo works great. I have nothing against the Hawk motor, but if it was allowed that would be the motor to have. It would be the death of the Falcon.

#18 Fiddler

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 09:34 AM

Toni, thanks for that; you're probably right. But, I may pick one up just to see how much faster, better braking, and reliable it is on our King track.
Tom Eatherly

#19 MSwiss

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 09:41 AM

Tom,

The Hawk 7 is something like only 58t (when I dewound one years ago, the wire kept breaking, so it was hard to get an exact number)
 
Falcon 7s and TSR D3s are 65T, hence, why the Hawks are usually faster.

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#20 Fiddler

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 10:08 AM

Mike,

OK, thank you. How about gearing a Hawk 7 for a King. Inline Retro Can-Am?
Tom Eatherly

#21 MSwiss

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 10:10 AM

When we ran them in JK Spec at past Sanos, the spec ratio was 7/27.
 
This was on 13.5v.
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Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman

Eight-time G7 King track single lap World Record holder
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990) 

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Westmont, IL 60559
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#22 Zippity

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 04:53 PM

Toni,
 
The WSCC uses the SRT timing system.
 
Tom, our flat track is powered POSITIVE to the left braid in the direction of travel. A 120 amp power supply produces 12.55 volts. It is connected in parallel with a large truck battery.
 
Our Falcon class races - LMP and F1/Indy - are restricted to the use of Champion Turbo Flex and JK 4” Indy F1 Cheetah 7 (Part No JK25117) chassis respectively.
 
Our rules only permit the use of sealed "Falcon" type motors. Because of the recent world-wide shortage, a decision was made to allow an alternate motor, the "Hawk 7" (part #30307) to be raced.
 
The alternate motor will be legal for the 2013 1/24 NZ Nationals only.
 
Ron

#23 MantaRay

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 05:15 PM

Maybe this thread needs to be split into continents and degions... LOL.
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#24 Toni-Lee Neilson

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 11:57 PM

The Falcon 7 motors will be at your distributor by the end of next week. Buena Park raceway will have them over the counter at the same time.

 

Since there are no technical changes that would affect performance, the motor needs not be re-submitted to the SCRRA board. Think of it as restocking and nothing else.

 

That's not what the ad says about the new motor (this is a NZ ad): "stronger and better".

 

Were they always rated at 51,000+ RPM?



#25 Gill A

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 05:20 AM

According to my data the old Falcon 7s were rated at 48,000 RPM.

 

As for the Hawk, we are already seeing them die after a few races so I would strongly advise putting in a new one for the Nats.


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#26 compman25

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 03:53 PM

The Falcon 7 motors will be at your distributor by the end of next week. Buena Park raceway will have them over the counter at the same time.

 

Since there are no technical changes that would affect performance, the motor needs not be re-submitted to the SCRRA board. Think of it as restocking and nothing else.

 

So are they at distributors today?


Mike Nelson

#27 TSR

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 04:09 PM

Todd Radke, who is the agent and owner of the Falcon tooling and trademarks, advised us yesterday that they only arrived in port today because they were bumped and did not make the ship they were supposed to be on last week (typical overbooking just like your favorite airline).

 

The shipment is pre-cleared in Customs and will be released we are told, Monday to the freight forwarder. Dispatching to the distributors beginning Wednesday after delivery to the main distributor's warehouse.

 

Buena Park will get a special delivery to have some for next Saturday's SCRRA event.

 

Life is not always easy when everything conspires to make things as difficult as possible.

 

At least the racers are now only a few days away from having them over the counter of their raceway.


Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#28 Allan Feldman

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 04:33 PM

How can you tell the old Falcon 7 from the new one? I presume its still the same enclosed can?

And if its one with increased performance no matter how much more. Why not label it a Falcon 7 MKII or Falcon 8 so there no confusion when buying one?

Is it in the UK yet?

Regards,

Allan

#29 George Blaha

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 05:26 PM

Hey Dokktor,

 

Thanks for the explanation and timetable. I want to try them in our Long Island Retro Racing Wednesday IRRA™ Retro Stock Car race series and our new GT Coupe series.

 

Shakey George Blaha

 

PS: What screw fasteners work the best for the new FK and which screw fasteners work best on the PD?



#30 TSR

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 05:28 PM

Allan,
I will post pictures as soon as I get my hands on some.
No change in technical spec, hence no change in performance.
I am told that there is no current order from the UK distributor at this time.
 

P.S. What screw fasteners work the best for the new FK and which screw fasteners work best on the PD.

 
George, both have a 2 mm metric thread but we have found for many years that using a 2-56 X 1/8" machine screw is better because they act as a brake on the threads just like an aircraft locknut. We screw the 2-56 directly into the can, no pre-threading with a tap as it would defeat the purpose. Since 2007 when we started using the 2-56 hex-head screws, we have never had a loose motor and we NEVER solder them in.

It is however critical to make sure that the mounting bracket is truly flat. Once the chassis is built, use a wide file across the mounting face to remove any "bumps", and apply power to the motor at 3 volts while tightening the screws. If the motor revs down when tightening, stop, remove the motor and work to make the mounting surface truly flat... until there is no change in revs whatsoever.  :)
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Philippe de Lespinay
 
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