36 replies to this topic

[Gator Bob]

Help -
Is this a #285?

What was the part number for the 4.5" version?
 
Please... what year did it come out?

[Hworth08]

Yep that's a 285. I think the 4.5 inch had the same part number.

That was the second version, the first having tapered rails.

Somewhere Champion had the instructions for cutting off those body mounts, soldering on some 3/32" tubing to accept new mounts for stock cars that slipped in the tubing and was held with a rubber band. Then the racer could pull out the "wide" mounts and use the chassis for open-wheel racing where long chassis worked well.

The second came out around late 1967 early '68. Just in time to be obsoleted by the anglewinders.

Either the 285 or Cobra five-rail frame were the best over-the-counter frames. Either frame could almost contend with a good scratchbuilt and at times be faster in the hands of a good driver.

[TSR]

The numbers changed between 1968 and 1969: in the 1969 catalog, the #284 is the 4.5" stock car version, the #285 is for the 4" version. These are supposed to fit both the  FT16 and FT26 motors, which I do not believe to be correct unless the fatter motor would stick below the chassis...

BUT, if the chassis is for the FT26 motor and 4.5" wheelbase, the numbers is 286.

Go figure.

[Bill from NH]

The second version of the 285 came out May 1968.

 

I think the rubber band stock car body mount instructions were included with those for the Champion Align-O-Jig.

[TSR]

Bill,

You are correct-a-mundo, as the Fonz would have said. 

[SlotStox#53]

Nice chassis Bob Is that nickel plated like the Champion F1 chassis, or gold? Can't quite tell with the light.

[TSR]

Paul,

they came both ways. Nickel in 1968, then gold nickel in 1969 through the end.

[SlotStox#53]

Thanks Philippe   Seen the F1 in both but only ever seen this one in Nickel.. Nice simple chassis

[Gator Bob]

Ok ... thanks for all the replies men.

 

So ... I'm still not clear.

 

The Revised 1967 cat with the 68 supplement shows:

In the 1968 section:

#285 with tapered rails, a 4" chassis with a jail door style weighted drop arm and the (U-) 285-2 body mounts for 5001, 507R or 517.

#286 as the 4.5" version for 601,607 or 617

#287 is a kit w/ 285-2 body mount for 5001, 507R or 517   Add -A for Align-O-Jig

#288 is a kit w/ 285-2 body mount for 601, 607 or 617.      Add -A for Align-O-Jig

 

In the 1967 section:

Holman Moody 1967 Fairlane Stock Car #43 in 4.5" and a wide spaced rail jail door nickel plated with full pans and 601 or 607 powered RTR.

"Available Summer 1967" No Champion part number showing.

 

The March 1, to June 1, 1969 Parts and Price List (Dealer/no pictures) Lists:

 

#284 InLine - Stock Car 4 1/2" Wheel Base for 16D or 26D size

#285 InLine - Sports Car, brass rod 4" for 16D or 26D size

#286 InLine - Stock Car, brass rod  4 1/2" for 26D only. .... I can only guess this is the one that was used in the 1967 issued Holman Moody 1967 Fairlane Stock Car #43

 

So the question still remains (in my mind).

• Is the one in the picture above the Gen 2?
• The #285 with the #285-2 (or U-285-2 in kit form) style body mount shown in the 1968 cat is that the Gen 1?
• Key - When did the #285-3 Drop arm come out?  That item is not in shown in the 1967 68 or 69 catalogs that I have. It is the drop arm shown above.  
• Did the pin tube body mounts come after the 285-2 body mounts?

 

Don wrote:

Somewhere Champion had the instructions for cutting off those body mounts, soldering on some 3/32" tubing to accept new mounts for stock cars that slipped in the tubing and was held with a rubber band. Then the racer could pull out the "wide" mounts and use the chassis for open-wheel racing where long chassis worked well.

Are these the U- 285-2 kits or the #290-2 Floating Body Mount Kits?

 

The U-285-2 Body Mount Kit  I have does not include any instruction sheet, but the 290-2 kit does include an instruction sheet showing to cut of the pin tube style mounts as seen on the picture I posted above.

 

OMG!

[TSR]

Boy, are you confused!

 

Your chassis is from 1969 and is part of the second series of "jail-door" frames at Champion. The first one, with tapered rails and wire drop arm, is from 1968.

The plate drop arm came with the Series 2 chassis and was available separately after that, then went onto the first generation of angle-winder chassis, all the way to the Group-20.

[Gator Bob]

The second version of the 285 came out May 1968.

 

I think the rubber band stock car body mount instructions were included with those for the Champion Align-O-Jig.

 

 

Bill,

You are correct-a-mundo, as the Fonz would have said. 

 

 

Boy, are you confused!

 

Your chassis is from 1969 and is part of the second series of "jail-door" frames at Champion. The first one, with tapered rails and wire drop arm, is from 1968.

The plate drop arm came with the Series 2 chassis and was available separately after that, then went onto the first generation of angle-winder chassis, all the way to the Group-20.

 

yEs  ... Dazed too....    

[TSR]

It is actually quite difficult to keep up with the Champion vast line of products unless you have the catalogs AND the products on hand.

Regarding the 285-2 body mounts, they are from the first series of tapered frames that came in September 1967 and are shown in the 1968 catalog as well as the same in kit form, with or without a building jig, and do not apply to the later chassis like the one in your opening post that came later in May 1968 and is shown in the 1969 price list. In 1968, these chassis were nickel plated, but when the first angle-winder chassis began appearing in late 1968 at Champion, the color for all the chassis changed to a light gold, then reverted to standard nickel when the second (and final) series of angle winder chassis were issued in 1970.

One more note regarding your chassis: sometimes you will find open-wheel cars with that chassis without the body-mounting outriggers, Champion NEVER did that, the customers did.

Yes, nothing is simple...

[Dennis M]

Beautiful chassis.

[Champion 507]

Gee, Dokk, if a certain book came out, we would have all that in print, right?

[Martin]

Working on a couple of Champion inline chassis # 285  #284 and #286.

My question is were these chassis ever sold by Champion as a kit or as a RTR ? Looking to build as all Champion.

Anybody got a Champion guide for sale or trade. Spent hours looking through my stash.

[John Secchi]

Hope this is of help, it's from Jan 1969 Model Cars mag and shows the car as a complete RTR, however it's possible that it being a Champion of Europe ad it might have been sold as a RTR in the UK only.

[oneofwos]

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[Martin]

That does help John, Thanks.

 

Is that a Cox quick change guide,  or is there really a Champion quick change guide?

[TSR]

 

and shows the car as a complete RTR, however it's possible that it being a Champion of Europe ad it might have been sold as a RTR in the UK only.

 

John, this Lotus 40 shown on the advert (using a Russkit body) was also available in the US under the same stock number. Martin, the "quick change guide" was a Cox item. Most 1968 and 1969 Champion RTR cars used them, after Champion ditched their own white nylon guide as seen on their earlier "series 1" cars with the sidewinder aluminum chassis. 

The "Jet Flag" only appeared on the Champion RTR cars in 1970.

The chassis is the same as used on their F1 cars, a nickel plated job made in Japan, fitted with soldered outriggers for the wider body. The "5001" motor is the Mabuchi FT16D with oval hole and twin shaft, but it is a stock FT16D  armature. It is mounted from its endbell on the formed bras motor bracket.
This type of car was also available in kit form with clear or unpainted body (no body choice, you could get a Lotus or Revell Ford GT or a Lancer Porsche 906 or a Dynamic McLaren!).



 

[Martin]

"quick change guide was a Cox item " Thanks Philippe.

That is what I thought, I was building my rollers with them. This guide and the Dynamic quick change guide is my go to guide pre 69 builds. Not sure who was first on that product. Maybe it was, a case of natural development, and more than one person thought it was a good idea at a similar time. Notice I said similar because someone had to be first to design it then first to market. ???

I do have a Champion Ferrari F1 with that nickel rod frame. It just looks factory to me. I will have take pics to get your opinion.

All the best to one and all for 2019.   

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[TSR]

Hi Martin,
I am afraid not. This is simply a sports car chassis of which "wings" were clipped. Lots of these around, but not something made or marketed by Champion. This actually intrigued me for a while but simple inspection of every single Champion catalogue or advertising makes it clear: Champion never marketed any other open-wheel racing car chassis made of soldered wire and plate than the # 270 and 271 (for FT16D and FT26D), and never marketed any "wide" F1 bodies.  Below is a picture of that chassis inside a Ferrari body.


 

[Martin]

Thanks for checking into it. I will call it the F1 car Champion should of made. It was cut after plating and that's not the way Champion would have done it. You are correct Sir.

 

Sorry I should have checked to see if the chassis had been cut after plating first.

[Martin]

The Cox and the Dynamic quick change guide is my go to guide pre 69 builds. Not sure who was first on that product. Maybe it was, a case of natural development, and more than one person thought it was a good idea at a similar time. Notice I said similar because someone had to be first to design it then first to market. ???

Anybody know the history on this subject?

[MSwiss]

I would of bet 25 cents on Cox,....... and been wrong, according to PM.

 

The real change that affected racing was the invention of the Dynamic guide model #659. This is the father of every guide in use today.  Until this guide, there was no standard. Braid was cut from strips and screw mounted to the guide.  With the #659, braid came with clips that plugged into the front of the guide.  The guide itself was secured to the drop-arm by collets or nuts. The modern flag is just a development.

 

https://www.professo...egory-s/199.htm

 

[MSwiss]

The above Car Model ad was March of 1967.

 

So, when did the LaCucaracha come out?

 

I got mine when they first came out.

 

I don't remember if I was 11 or 12, but at 11, that would have it at 1966.

 

I guess I'll try the Google machine again. LOL

[Martin]

Your on the right track. I bet the Cox guide was first as I am pretty sure the Cuc came out in 3/66.

My first good slot car was the Dynamic Ferrari P4( the one in the clear box)  I will look to see when that was made because those kits had the QC guide. I am pretty sure that was 3/67. At least that is when I got mine.

In conclusion Cox had Dynamic beat by a year at least.

Was the Cox QC guide first seen on the Cuc or was it available before that ?