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R&C Pablo GT Class entry


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#1 Pablo

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 06:36 PM

Finished October 2013:

post-91-0-32493000-1381708916.jpg

 

post-91-0-87649400-1381708809.jpg

 

Here's where it all started:

I changed my mind, I'm going to attempt this. It looks simpler than I originally thought.

In 1966 I was soldering chassis and rewinding motors, but I was 150 miles away from the heart of racing in the Los Angeles area. That's a long drive on a Schwinn :laugh2:   I never even heard of this R&C stuff until I started reading the blogs in 2000.

I need guidance in the parts gathering phase. I have the parts but I don't know what they are :)

 

First, I found this super sweet Doug Azary built motor in my parts drawer.  It was a birthday gift from Doug a few years back, an Atlas can painted gold, black Cox NASCAR motor endbell and a Deathstar arm that was made into an endbell drive and wound with 60 turns of #30. It was professionally balanced and trued by Jim Hahn, noted slot car motor expert. The magnets are Tradeship and the lead wires are Plafit.

DSC08840.JPG

DSC08841.JPG

DSC08842.JPG

 

Second, is this body legal ? What is it ? WB is 3 3/4, width is narrow but will accept 3" wheel widths if they extend 1/16

DSC08835.JPG


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Paul Wolcott




#2 SlotStox#53

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 06:42 PM

Seems Steve was right in thinking you would end up building an R&C car Pablo :D

 

Never seen that motor before , but totally agree it looks sweet !!! Body could be a Chaparral 2D :) Which if it is they were raced in the R&C series :good:



#3 Pablo

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 06:56 PM

Thanks Paul, I figured the body out with your help.

The body is a Tom Andersen Chaparral 2D, legal for this build.


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#4 Paul Jurczyszyn

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 07:01 PM

No problem. Glad I could help.
Paul
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#5 Lone Wolf

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 07:20 PM

Motor is Frankenstein, or is that Fraunk-N-Steen? Russkit 27 can with a Cox 16D Nascar endbell. Lets see the arm in that puppy.


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#6 Pablo

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 07:38 PM

Here ya go, Lone Wolf.

Please, Steve O, tell me if this is not good for this project.

DSC08843.JPG


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#7 dc-65x

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:06 PM

Hi Pablo!

 

Great to see you join the fun. :clapping: :dance3:

 

I'm hoping we can do something like a motor guide for 1966 soon. Basically , it would include the Mabuchi's, Strombecker Hemi 300, "Pitcan" and all the old players from Pittman, Kemtron, Wilson etc.
 


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#8 Pablo

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:21 PM

Are these (revised 10/2/2013) parts OK ?

Flag is a Dynamic 660 circa 1964, rear wheels are .450" wide setscrew type, fronts are set screw, crown is a Delrin 37T..

Please don't hesitate to tell me if something needs to be changed.

Because once the parts gathering phase is done, I'll be like a hungry dog after a duck :laugh2:

DSC08849.JPG


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#9 dc-65x

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:29 PM

I'm pretty sure the Dynamic guide is a 1967 item. Oh Steve..... :laugh2:   what say you?

 

The rear wheels are something from Professor Motor perhaps?


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#10 SlotStox#53

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:34 PM

Guide looks ok Rick & Pablo :) Just checked Steve's article on guides , 1966 is the year for that one ,although possibly too late for the series , but it does show as '66 :)



#11 Gator Bob

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:01 PM

Pablo, This one should be a walk in the park for you. :good:  

 

Guessing,

 

The fronts look Dynamic, possibly MDC.

The arm looks like a hot wind on a Champion blank.

Cox gears in 66 had slotted set screws IIRC.


Posted Image
                            Bob Israelite

#12 dc-65x

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:04 PM

Hi Pablo,

 

I'm hoping Steve will chime in soon.

 

For me I've always just followed the race reports. I read them, look at the pictures and tech sheets. If I wanted to use a set screw wheel and Russkit reproduction wheels were not available, I'd use the Professor Motor wheels. BUT, does that mean if a guy has some PM wheels he shouldn't use them?

 

Hmmmm........I think it just means I'm a purist nut case :laugh2:

 

I'm hoping Steve can be "The Voice of Reason" and offset my nut case view :)


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#13 Pablo

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:10 PM

Thanks Rick, I'm done for today anyway. I didn't see any deadline :) So no need to hurry


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#14 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 12:52 AM

Pablo (and Rick),

 

The guide is of course a Dynamic 658, and as Paul E. points out, my research pegs the availability date at September 1966.  Close enough for races 5 and 6, but before that is kinda pushing it.

 

The front wheels look a lot like Dynamic 601, which would be just fine.

 

The rear wheels are American Line 1076C (sold by PM and others).  I don't think they're really a period piece, but they are the right size and shape, so I've got no problem with them at all.

 

The bracket is at an odd angle in the photo but looks like a Russkit 795, nothing is more OK than that.

 

The gear...  A Cox gear is a Cox gear is a Cox gear.  Original ones had no ribs on the back, later ones (beginning in 1967 I think) had the ribs.  Older Cox gears (without the ribs) are rather hard to find, and the unused ones you do find are generally wobbly (nobody wanted the wobbly ones so they didn't get used...  and that's why you can occasionally find them now).  Wobbly gears make great static displays, but we want to see these builds move, right?

 

So, I'm hoping we can all get past this business of straining at gnats and swallowing camels, and just enjoy building and running our cars.  If the gear is dyed black and says "Parma" on it, it's not a Cox gear, nor is it period-correct and is not appropriate.  If it says "Cox" on it, has ribs on the back and runs true, it's still a Cox gear and I personally have no problem with using it.  Simple.

 

There are of course other (non Cox) gears that are also appropriate.  Check the reference information provided (example: Auto World catalogs).

 

Whether or not Cox (or any other) gears came with slotted set screws in 1966, if you're foolish enough to use slotted set screws in a race car, you deserve whatever happens to you.

 

The Motor:  The can is of course from a Russkit 27 and dates to sometime in the first half of 1966.  Russkit didn't do a lot of advertising for it, so my information comes from a motor review in MC&T, June 1966, page 48.  If Joe Lupo says the endbell is a Cox NASCAR, I believe him.  Cox NASCSAR motors date from late 1966 to the beginning of 1967.

 

I have no idea about the arm without being able to see it clearly.  If it's wound on a thick lamination stack with 29 or 30 gauge wire and has a Mabuchi or Tradeship (French) comm, it's probably close enough.  If that puppy is wound with 28 gauge wire, it's most appropriate for later races (5 or 6).  If the wire is heavier than 28 gauge, it's not appropriate for 1966 at all.  Check the Tech Charts.

 

Hope this helps!  It's past my bed time boys and girls. Goodnight.


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#15 dc-65x

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 11:21 AM

The informed voice of reason. Thanks Steve! :)


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#16 Pablo

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 11:59 AM

Thanks Steve. I'm going to change the wheels and inserts, as I realized nobody uses American Mags on a Chappy.

I'll change the flag also.


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#17 Pablo

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 05:35 PM

I changed some things around. Please recheck my photo in post # 8. Thanks :)


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#18 Jairus

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:25 PM

That pile o'parts gets my vote!  :good:


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#19 Hworth08

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:37 PM

Follow-up to post 8... The white Delrin gear weren't sexy but usually meshed very well. Dynamic's are marked AMT and are a bit better than the Wilson brand but both are quite true. Sometimes they will pop a tooth completely off. Most use a set screw that's bigger than 4-40 that can be problematic.

 

The guide is fine and used by Dynamic in their prized 1st gen Bandit (with the Delrin ring gear). The copper braid was the best. Soft enough to not lift the guide out of the slot but tough enough to last a couple races. The Cox was soft and made good contact but wore very fast.


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#20 Pablo

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:49 PM

Thanks Jairus, and Don.

Uh Oh, Don, thanks, the set screw hole is huge like you said. No Problemo, I will simply drill through to the other side and re-tap for the correct size.  All my experimentation with Slot-It gears finally paid off, although in a strange way :laugh2:


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#21 SlotStox#53

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:57 PM

Nice revised parts haul Pablo :)  Wheel inserts look the business :dance3:



#22 Hworth08

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 07:26 PM

 

Uh Oh, Don, thanks, the set screw hole is huge like you said. No Problemo, I will simply drill through to the other side and re-tap for the correct size. 

 

 

Why hadn't I ever thought of that? :)


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#23 Pablo

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 07:34 PM

Probably because you didn't have the exact tools to do it, at the time. I do. :)


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#24 Pablo

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 07:51 PM

DSC08854.JPG


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#25 SlotStox#53

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 07:55 PM

Very nice tap & handle Pablo , another handy/valuable set of tools I gotta get :laugh2:



#26 Tex

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:20 PM

Those are handy. I got one also, with a 040 drill/tap for set screws and another drill/tap for 2mm screws(I think). Having such tools make things so much easier. Not related to these R&C builds but tool related instead, I just received my RGEO Deluxe Wire Bender in the mail today; I'm positively giddy! Now I have to figure out how to use it; is there a thread somewhere on Slotblog, a basic "how to"?


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#27 Pablo

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:25 PM

I doubt you will need those tools, Paul, unless you start experimenting with Slot - It gears :laugh2:

Here is my build so far. Jigged up with a sacrificial motor. I'm using tubing for my rear axle - no bushings, no BB's. WB is 3 3/4"

DSC08858.JPG


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#28 Pablo

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:28 PM

Hi, Tex. We posted at the same time. :wave:


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#29 SlotStox#53

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:41 PM

Pablo you certainly don't hang about !!!

There ya go Tex :)

http://slotblog.net/...al/#entry347061

#30 Tex

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 06:57 AM

Thanks, Paul; I bookmarked the link!


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#31 dc-65x

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 10:51 AM

 

Second, is this body legal ? What is it ? WB is 3 3/4, width is narrow but will accept 3" wheel widths if they extend 1/16

 

 

 

 

Don't worry about the width to much Pablo. Very few (if any!) of the period bodies were 3" wide. I don't see any fender flaring being used in the race reports. Just build the chassis to fit inside the body and space the tires to not stick out past the body either. If it's less that 3" so be it. 3" was the maximum width, not the width it had to be.

 

The rules for the GP cars called for a track width of only 2 3/4" :shok: :dance3:


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#32 Pablo

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 11:32 AM

Cool. Should end up being just shy of 3"
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#33 SlotStox#53

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 11:32 AM

That is a narrow track!! :shok: may have to build a GP car too :D

#34 dc-65x

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 11:34 AM

Cool Pablo :good:

 

That is a narrow track!! :shok: may have to build a GP car too :D

 

Absolutely Paul! :dance3:


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#35 SlotStox#53

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 11:57 AM

Cool Pablo :good:
 
 
Absolutely Paul! :dance3:



May take a few :laugh2: parts gathering for the first car is taking long enough , although I definitely want to do a GP one.

After seeing your Lotus R&C build and the race reports... Gotta build one!!! Hmmm Wilson motor in a GP.. can I squeeze it in?? :laugh2: :shok:

#36 Pablo

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 10:18 PM

Progress report :D  This is fun, I'm glad to be a part of this.

WB is set and jig wheels are in place. My math says .812 rear jig wheels will give me .063 clearance with 15/16 OD wheels, and .750 front jig wheels will give .063 with 7/8 wheels.

DSC08865.JPG


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#37 SlotStox#53

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 10:28 PM

:D It is fun! Looks good just with the bare essentials on the jig !



#38 Pablo

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 10:58 AM

Check out my freaky deaky flag / droparm setup.  The rod is .093 solid. :D

DSC08868.JPG


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#39 SlotStox#53

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 11:01 AM

Wow! :shok: sure is gonna be a sturdy drop arm!! :D
You definitely keeping both weights?!

Wonders what the rest of Team Pablo's chassis is gonna look with a monster drop arm like that :D

#40 Pablo

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 11:13 AM

The top weight secures the flag. The two thins combined equal one thick weight, so it's really not a big weight change.

The drop arm will not require a weight amidships.

With this setup, the flag rotates very smooth no wobble. Thanks to Duffy. :D


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#41 SlotStox#53

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 11:24 AM

Duffy strikes again :D really neat way of getting the weight over the guide & upfront without a slab 'O lead ...nice .

#42 Hworth08

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 12:08 PM

Drop arms designs similar to that were real popular at our track. Some people wrapped a round or two of solder around the 3/32nds piece to make an up-stop hitting front axle tube. You could fine tune the height by squeezing the solder with wire pliers.


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#43 Bill from NH

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 12:17 PM

I like! :)


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#44 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 12:18 PM

Pablo,

 

The beginnings of your drop arm remind me of this one:

 

RCrace2Kirby.jpg

 

Jim Kirby Team Russkit TQ second race.

 

Unless I'm missing something, there's your basic "1 rail" chassis, and brass tube at that!

 

I'm thinking the pin tube main rails are also the front body mount just above the front axle.

 

It looks as though it would fold up like a newspaper if it ever hit the wall really hard.



#45 Pablo

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 12:44 PM

Thanks Don, and Bill, that makes me feel like I'm on track :good: :)

Steve, that looks like a TQ car all right.  Mine will be similar, but a little stronger.

The body is pretty thick, so it can take hits :unknw:

 

Here is my flag washer math, hope it's right :laugh2:

The flag is .125 thick.

The braid is .015 thick.

I want to use one .020 spacer.

.063 clearance minus .015 = .048.

.125 minus .048 is .077

Minus one spacer is .067

So I have .067 worth of spacers on top of the Ricks Jig on the flag stud.

DSC08879.JPG


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#46 SlotStox#53

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 12:47 PM

Single rail?! :shok:

Remember seeing that picture and imagining it would taco itself with a wall shot!!

Lightweight though!! :D

#47 Pablo

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 12:54 PM

Reminds me of this car:

http://slotblog.net/...lexi-gtp-build/

The mindset is the same: build it real light and pray you stay out of trouble. :)


Paul Wolcott

#48 SlotStox#53

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 01:09 PM

Ah yes the neon flexi build! Ultra light with a phobia of wall shots/trouble :shok: build in lightness :good:

#49 Pablo

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 01:14 PM

Kidz, do not attempt this without a mini torch ! :diablo:

Note hole is protected with aluminum sleeve to disallow solder flow into the hole area. :umnik2:

DSC08880.JPG


Paul Wolcott

#50 Pablo

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 01:35 PM

DSC08883.JPG


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