13 replies to this topic

[gas]

Proslot 16D armatures, is the comm end shaft long enough to use in Mabuchi 16D setup for endbell drive?

[macman]

Kinda doubt it, since everything has been can drive for over 30 years, with good reason... Unless Dan is using a longer shaft for the com cooler crowd...

[Pablo]

George, that is a good question. No, it's not long enough. If it was, I wouldn't go to the trouble of special ordering these special order arms from Pro Slot:

Takes about a month of lead time and you need to give Dan specific measurements of the line up.

It is a very tricky business as far as making the spacing relationships perfect.

[gas]

Thanks for the answer. Could you give me an idea where to measure. I am looking to use the REH Russkit style bracket with a gimble can, bushing or ball bearing to replace the gimble bearing.

[Pablo]

A picture would help, George.

I don't know what you mean by "gimbal" . Also, I've never heard of an "REH Russkit" bracket.

[gas]

The gimbal bearing is the one you had fall out while drilling, the bracket is on the PCH website under scratch building. I don't have either motor or chassis parts yet, web building in my head first. Once I build these cars they will be similar to what the adults raced when I was a kid. 

[Pablo]

There is no "standard" measurement, George. It all depends on your magnet placement, endbell and brush hood spacing.

It's complicated. I could give you my exact measurements, but it would be useless.

[gas]

Thanks for your time,Paul.

[Bill from NH]

I don't see any REH brackets on the PCH website that'll fit a gimble bearing motor. I did see the REH-3000 16D bracket, sometimes referred to as the "Dubro bracket."  Actually, I think those brackets might have been made by Associated. Anyhow, it would need to be drilled out in order to fit the can end of a gimble bearing motor, plus you'd need a C-clip to secure the motor.

[havlicek]

 

 

Thanks for the answer. Could you give me an idea where to measure. I am looking to use the REH Russkit style bracket with a gimble can, bushing or ball bearing to replace the gimble bearing.

 

You could probably do fine by just asking PS/Dan to keep all dimensions the same as stock and just have the extra shaft length at the com/"top" end of the arm instead of the tail/"bottom" end of the arm.  Another easier way to have at it is to just get an old Mabuchi EB drive arm and send it to them to duplicate.  When you get the arm back, you will have some play to screw around with by sliding the magnets (the magnet stop tabs at the back end of the motor can be flattened to give you more adjustment room to get the arm centered in the field).  Also, if you plan on using modern 16D magnets...a very good idea if absolutely period correct isn't necessary... (Parma EPX), you may want to install those in the can and check the size of the hole.  A large diameter arm would be a better fit without shimming.  Finally, if you plan on losing the gimbal/caged bushing as you mentioned, you may gain a LOT of fore and aft adjustment depending on how you install either.  You would be gaining almost the entire length of the stock bushing if you plan on reaming out the existing hole and mounting the bushing/bearing with the flange inside the can.

 

The stock ball-shaped bushing is actually a good piece, being solid (as opposed to sintered) metal.  If the "fingers" that hold the bushing in it's socket are still tight and the bushing itself isn't worn, there's no "need" to replace it.  The end bell bushing (such as it is) is far more likely to be worn and cause problems (arcing).  They're not good even when in "perfect" condition and the socket they fit in (except for the Champion white end bell) is so small that it isn't easy to get a solid upgrade installed.  The problems associated with the end bell bushing are exacerbated when the motor is installed end-bell drive, because the lateral forces exerted by the gear train (inline) only make the bushing wear faster...especially if care isn't taken to adjust the gear mesh properly.    Hope this helps.

 

-john

[gas]

Professor Motor has a Revell can and Champion white end bell,these are what I was looking at, just would make the cars look more period correct. Planned to use modern magnets. Always remember that can bushing being a pain in the neck to deal with.  Thanks for all the advise.

[Pablo]

Sounds like you are building something very similar to this:

http://slotblog.net/...pion-16d-motor/

I could easily give you the exact specs I asked Pro Slot to make me the arm for this motor,

BUT, as I said before, there are so many variables it is highly unlikely it would turn out perfectly for you.

First of all, this type of building is part black art, part science, and part luck. There is no guarantee your parts would be exactly the same as my parts.

Secondly, the specs on the arm I received from Pro Slot were slightly different from what I ordered.

They were close enough for me to make a good motor.

My point is, I could give you my specs, you could order an arm, and it may or may not fit your setup.

Then it would be my fault. So I'm telling you, this is real tricky.

Havlicek's idea of finding an old arm that fits your setup perfect then sending it in to be re-created, is a great suggestion.

Not to mention, everything else he said, you can take to the bank.

Reluctantly, here are my specs for the arm in the above build.  Your results may vary.

.540 OD arm:

Endbell drive, timed for CCW rotation at endbellside,

Stack (.007 lams), .607 stack height

Top of stack to tip top of Comm .470

Bottom of stack to end of shaft covering  .110

Tip Top of Comm to end of shaft covering on can end: 1.187

[havlicek]

Professor Motor has a Revell can and Champion white end bell,these are what I was looking at, just would make the cars look more period correct. Planned to use modern magnets. Always remember that can bushing being a pain in the neck to deal with.  Thanks for all the advise.

 

One thing on the white Champ end bell, the larger bushing area will make reaming out most any motor bracket necessary, but that's a pretty simple thing to do (reaming is way better than drilling BTW, and goes quick in such soft metal as brass).  Yes, what you are planning will both look period correct and run very well indeed!

 

-john

[gas]

Paul, your specs let me where I need to measure. The link shows exactly what I'm trying to build. I think it will look good in the car I'm planning, I was just going to throw a Deathstar in it . John and Paul thank you for your help and advise.