39 replies to this topic

[Jean-Michel Piot]

Hello happy slotblogers...

 

I'm currently building three Ferrari 275P. 2 are next to completion, the last one only have few parts prepared.

 

But before completing one, I need your opinion on the genuine color of campagnolo wheels for the Riverside 1963 version (number 11 driven by John Surtees).

 

Some friends consider that the wheels should be aluminum, I thought it should be more grey as I think it was a magnesium/aluminium casting.

 

 

Any advise shall be welcome.

 

Meanwhile, few pictures of the 2 cars that will soon be completed ...

 

The trompe l'oeil for a grey interior (for the 63 Riverside race), still missing its dashborad that will be painted on a card

 

 

The one for the 1964 Le Mans winner:

 

 

 

 

And others ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jean-Michel Piot]

As we are talking of the tompe l'oeil technique, here is a good way to start with the picture of an interior taken from the Monogram static version of the same car...

 

This helps me to draw the lines with a pencil before painting those lines in black and thereafter use other colors.

 

 

 

 

 

I did the same for the Monogram Scarab I showed you some years ago.

 

Now, this is only the start. I also use pictures of the real cars to see the details, notably because the model kit are not always accurate.

[Tex]

I've always LOVED your hand-painted interiors; for a mostly flat piece of cardstock, they are VERY detailed and add so much to the car!

 

As for the wheels, I have no idea really. Some of the silver I've seen in a spray can is more of a silver/gray as opposed to a chrome silver... (?).

[NY Nick]

Is that a Leica copy stand ?

Thank you for posting vary nice work.

Will have to try this.

[TSR]

Jean-Michel,

the wheels are Borrani wires at the rear, not Campagnolo. The Campies on front are painted a lighter color. The wire wheels are assembled, then painted (spokes, hub and rim) in a medium-dark metallic silver of very matte finish. The Dunlop wire wheels made in the UK for racing cars were painted seemingly the same color. The Campies were slightly lighter in color and the paint had a brighter finish.

The Monogram wheel inserts are "chrome" plated and that is of course very wrong.

 

Superb job on the driver, and I include below a small paragraph from my new book about the Monogram slot cars:

 

 

The biggest drawback of all Monogram slot cars, compared to Cox and what makes them “Number Two” in the mind of collectors, is the way the driver’s compartment was handled. While Cox’s had full drivers with detailed seating arrangements, Monogram, like K&B and so many others, used a simplistic treatment with flat decks and molded-in driver “torsos” requiring expert artistic paint treatment to look good. Monogram could have easily molded separate torsos and arms as Cox and Revell did, that could have been painted and later assembled to the flat compartments. This would have made a world of difference.

[Jairus]

Beautiful painting work Jean-Michel!

[Jean-Michel Piot]

Philippe, how many different wheels on the same car ?

 

Here there is Campagnolo at the 4 corners and they look a little gold. But this may be due to the old kodacolor used at that time...

 

I would really prefer to have the same 4 wheels like on this picture.

 

 

 

About pictures, yes, this is an old Leitz stand, that perfectly work with my M9. Same for Visoflex III that I use with a 65 Elmar for the shoot I make of my slotcars.

[TSR]

Jean-Michel,

at the time, Ferrari was in a transition state between wire and alloy wheels, so it is not uncommon to find pictures with both depending on which time of the day it was. While most other racing car companies had moved to the sturdier and much lighter magnesium-alloy cast wheels, Ferrari was always behind and Enzo did not like the alloy wheels because they did not look "right", a bit like Ettore Bugatti refusing for a long time to adopt hydraulic brakes.

Tires were mounted on all available wheels, and the team may not have had enough of the newer wheels, so wires were still being used and pitstops even in a day when the Dunlop tires were rock-hard, were necessary. The Times GP at Riverside was long enough of a race to require at least one tire change, and punctures were not uncommon from debris.

As far as the color, again there is a bit of the gold tone in the dark silver and the rears are painted differently on your last picture, looks like the hub part is darker. I would try copying the picture as closely as possible and if anyone argues, show them the photo!
You cannot copy modern pictures of these cars because they all have been over-restored to jewelry state and you can no longer trust what you see.

[Jean-Michel Piot]

Many thanks to all for your compliments and a special thank, Philippe, for your help.

 

What you write in the new version of your book about artistic painting of the interior is indeed identical to what you wrote in page 57 of the former version. 

 

It seems that once again you were right ... 

 

I'm looking forward to read the new enhanced version.

 

Now, as for the wheels of this car, I shall repaint them with a mix of gold, sylver and metallic grey. Not sure though that I will use a different paint for the rear, because most people seeing the car would indeed comment (or not and consider that I made a mistake).

 

But let's see the work on progress as it is, before I change the color of the rims: 

 

 

 

[Tex]

I think the wheels look fine like they are, Jean-Michel. I guess it comes down to whether the car is to represent the car as it first hit the track for it's first test outing, or whether it represents the car a year later, with all the weathering that occurs(?).

[Jean-Michel Piot]

Richard, in the domain of sport car I doubt that one year later, supposing that the car is still competitive, it would race whith the same wheels.

 

Besides, a light gold finish will match with the Shell stickers and would be nice on a red car, I think.

[Lone Wolf]

Just fantastic I built one  "stock out of the box " a restoration of a glue bomb actually, using reissue kit parts and it builds into a nice looking car but nothing compared to yours.

 

I especially like the non spoiler version with the roll bar. If I may be so bold, the roll bar looks a little too tall. Of course you know me by now and it is not a criticism, just an observation. Also don't forget the rivet/bolt detail on the silver side strip.

 

And buy the way, fantastic helmet as well, I hate painting friggin' helmets Love the black around the perimeter of the opening that so many people forget to add.

 

Could you show us a pic of your display cabinet if you have one? I will get the "drool" ready

[TSR]

The Monogram model is supposed to represent the car as it was in 1965, with a larger 3.3-liter engine, hence the "275" name that represents the displaced volume of each cylinder. The original "250P" came in 1963 and won at Le Mans with Lorenzo Bandini and Ludovico Scarfiotti, and in 1964 with Jean Guichet et Nino Vacarella. But the Monogram decals are for the 1964 car, so Monogram cheated by calling their model a "275", it is actually the 250P as raced in 1964.
 

In 1963, John Surtees brought the original prototype, chassis 814, built without the huge windshield required by the Automobile Club de l'Ouest at Le Mans, to race in the United States, at the request of Luigi Chinetti of NART, who imported the Ferraris in the US. Surtees added the ineffective but legal roll hoop to 814 to compete in the Times Grand Prix as well as 3 other races in North America. Below he can be seen testing that very car at the Modena test track in February 1963:

 

.

 

Surtees found that the 3-liter car was a bit short of ponies against the American V8s, qualifying in 11th spot and and finishing 4th, but 2 laps down Dave MacDonald, who cleaned everyone's clock in Shelby's Cooper Monaco fitted with a 289 CI Ford engine. Pedro Rodriguez was third in a Genie-Ford using the same kind of engine.

Amazingly, Roger Penske finished in 2nd spot (albeit a lap down) with what was by now an antique motorcar: the modified Cooper "Zerex Special" with one of the 2.8-liter engines used by Jack Brabham at the 1961 Indy 500, the very engine that had won the Times Grand Prix 2 years earlier!
 

 

Also don't forget the rivet/bolt detail on the silver side strip.

 

Joe, good point! In fact these rivets are aluminum "carriage" bolts... and the strip is strictly cosmetic, there were still non-functional bits on racing cars, especially at a time when Ferrari had little competition, that is, in Europe! 

[Jean-Michel Piot]

Thank you Joe for your pertinent comment on the height of the roll bar. It isn't glued yet, so I will reduce it a little bit.

 

The rivets are here, awaiting for some black paint around in order to highlight the details, just as I did with the bonnet buckles notably.

 

As for a display cabinet, yes I have a small one.  I feel that I will soon need another one, unless I stop building or restoring 1:24 slot cars...

 

I shall take pictures of it.

 

 

Philippe, what an impressive and interesting knowledge. I was wondering if Monogram copied a 250 P or a 275 P, no consideration of the exhausts. A 250 P has 2 exhaust pipes at the rear. A 275 P has four (it is the case of the Monogram by the way).

[Lone Wolf]

Phillipe, thanks for the interesting read! How I would have love to have been there. Few things in the world delight me more than the sound of 12,000 plus RPM as it crests the hill and races by.

 

Jean-Michel, again just an observation on the roll bar. Don't lower it on my account, do what you feel is best.

 

Although I may not have not be able to obtain them Stateside, please tell me the brand and type of paint you are using on the interiors.

[TSR]

Philippe, what an impressive and interesting knowledge. I was wondering if Monogram copied a 250 P or a 275 P, no consideration of the exhausts. A 250 P has 2 exhaust pipes at the rear. A 275 P has four (it is the case of the Monogram by the way).

 J-M,

I think that Monogram "did a Cox" as for their Lotus 30/40: it took a long time in the day to produce molds, up to a year, it is not like today. I believe that Monogram started their mold in 1964, but before it was finished, the updated 275P had come from Maranello, so they simply added one set of exhausts and.. voila! But the decals are for one of the 1964 cars, in fact the Le Mans-winning car, chassis 0816 of Guichet and Vaccarella...

 

Jean Guichet is a long-time personal friend of mine and you can see us here a few years back, discussing a fine point during a meeting at the Goodwood Festival of Speed:

 

 

Please note that jean was still wearing one of his old Dunlop cotton suits!

I still had some hair left on top of the cabeza!

[Jean-Michel Piot]

Philippe, I guessed something like that... I Know that issuing kits took a long time.

 

This is the reason why the front of Monogram's allegedly 275P does not have the right nose for a 275 P 1964 car.

 

In order to build Jean Guichet's / Nino Vacarella's car, I had to modify the mouth and the air ducts aimed at cooling down the front brakes...

 

 

 

[Jean-Michel Piot]

Oops, I forgot to answer to Joe's question about the paint I used for the interiors.

 

Well, I think you will have no difficulty finding the same in the US.

 

It's simply Humbrol matt paints ...    Formerly I used oil paints but it takes a long time to dry and it is not very strong. 

 

Once the interior is achieved, I spray some Mr. Hobby/ Gunze matt varnish.

 

For the gloss helmets, I generaly use Tamiya spray cans, or create a mix of acrylic paints that are varnished once dry.

 

And for the pilot's face, I use oil paints for artists.

 

A friend of mine told me very good things abour Citadel's paints. I shall try.

[Jean-Michel Piot]

Thanks to your advice I lowered the roll bar, painted the wheels in a different shade with a mix of silver and gold  and added some black around the lateral rivets...

 

About the exhaust which was just put in place quickly and not glued, should it indeed have 4 pipes ?

 

 

 

 

I still have to simulate the dash board, treat the exhaut and few details.

[Quickcars]

Magnificent craftmanship! 

[drrufo]

LoneWolf wrote:  Few things in the world delight me more than the sound of 12,000 plus RPM as it crests the hill and races by.

At one of the Long Beach CA GP races I was walking across the pedestrian  bridge on the pit straight. As I got to the middle of the bridge a Ligier went under me and shifted up a gear. I felt the shift as the sound echoed off the buildings. I knew then what they were talking about when they said that the Ferrari's sounded like ripping canvas. I will never forget that sound.

  John Andersen

[spudboy]

LoneWolf wrote:  Few things in the world delight me more than the sound of 12,000 plus RPM as it crests the hill and races by.

At one of the Long Beach CA GP races I was walking across the pedestrian  bridge on the pit straight. As I got to the middle of the bridge a Ligier went under me and shifted up a gear. I felt the shift as the sound echoed off the buildings. I knew then what they were talking about when they said that the Ferrari's sounded like ripping canvas. I will never forget that sound.

  John Andersen

 

Ah the Ligier.  I will not hijack this thread but if you care there is a terrific bit on YouTube.  Title = "F1 - Ligier Matra - Monza 1978"

 

Jean-Michel, your work is inspired.  Thank you for sharing.  I too would look forward to seeing your display cabinet!

 

- spudboy

[Pete L.]

Super nice work, inspirational to say the least !!!

[drrufo]

Spudboy, that is one hell of a video. There is another one on the same page that is the Ligier taking a lap on the old LBGP track. It went down Ocean Blvd., there are three pedestrian bridges. One of those is where I was when it went underneath.  I think it might have been the version with the snorkel air intake with the Gitanes logo, dancer silhouette on the side.

 

  John Andersen

[Hworth08]

The interiors are fantastic!

 

Back in the day we got interested in "bent" interiors after we saw a Champion of Chamblee one. We made good progress but never approached what we have here!

 

Such clean and crisp work.