36 replies to this topic

[Architect]

OK, I've bought two soldering irons and they have both sucked. I bought a little 30W Weller hobby iron from Lowes and it seemed I could barely get my solder to melt. I bought a 60W from eBay and it seems to work better on light soldering jobs like wires to motor tabs, but I really can't seem to get my solder to "flow" My most important solder joint is my motor to chassis and I havent been satisfied with my results yet. The solder gets all pasty and blobby and forget about trying to desolder something. I feel like I'm gonna cook my new motor trying to get mounted.

We are running Champion Turbo-Flex chassis and it's a lot of metal to heat up. Does anybody have an economical solution or recommendation.

Thanks!

[Cheater]

Jerome,

Most of the Flexi racers I know use the Hakko 455 at the track. A lot of the guys prefer the Weller/Ungar iron, but it will be a lot more expensive to own over time.

The Hakko gets my vote...

[Architect]

So I need 1100 degrees, then. How important is wattage?

[Cheater]

Jerome,

For me, wattage is only a very rough metric. My old Weller Dual Heat 100W/140W gun doesn't work half as well as the Hakko with a much lower wattage rating (60W?).

Rather than comparing specs, I'd listen to the recommendations of others as well as see what the racers in your area are using. The local racers would probably let you use their irons when you're at the races with 'em and you can see which one works best for you.

[Bill from NH]

Jerome,

It may sound stupid, but are you using a flux with your solder? The 30 watt pencil iron is really good for doing circuit board work but not much of anything else, especially with slot cars.

Your 60 watt iron should work for taking motors in and out of Flexis. Was it new or used when you got it off eBay? Is its tip clean and in good shape to permit heat transfer to whatever you solder? Pure wattage by itself isn't as important as tip recovery time. By that I mean, does it take along time for the iron to get back to its operating temperature after having soldered a good size hunk of metal?

As cheater has said, the Hakko 455 is a popular iron. I have one and while it's made better, I still prefer my 35-year-old Ungar.

[4laneron]

I just got an Inland 100 watt soldering iron. It heats up to 1200 degrees and it will flow solder.

[Pappy]

Jerome,

For a cheap iron ($20) that puts out a lot of heat try the 100 watt Inland brand that they sell at Hobby Lobby. It's great for motors but I wouldn't use it to build a Retro chassis because the tip is too big.

I just bought a 50 watt, 1000 degree Ungar soldering iron at Grainger and I love it. It comes in three pieces so if you want one let me know and I'll look up the part numbers for you. The only problem is it cost me $86.00 with tax. To me it was worth it.

[Architect]

I am using flux. It's a tin I found in the basement and says it's for lead-free solder. I'm sure what I'm using is 60/40 so could that be a problem?

Thanks for the ideas. Budget is a concern. I'm trying to keep my expenditures to a reasonable level, hah! That being said, I could have almost bought the Hakko, oh well.

I tried it again and maybe the tip wasn't in good contact with element. It seemed to perform better but the tip is shot. I'll try replacing that and check its performance again.

[Bill from NH]

Is that flux a zinc-chloride paste like that used by plumbers on copper piping? If so, it shouldn't present a problem with your 60/40 solder.

[4laneron]

I got my 100 watter at YGLASS.COM for just under $30. You can buy other size tips for it.

[Dominator]

Go with the Hakko! I've had mine now for 7 years and only replaced the tip once! Most of the time I leave it at 1/2-3/4 power with a dimmer unless I'm working with brass. The only down side to it is the cord is a little stiff.

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

One way to think about the iron/gun is the MASS of the heat carrier. Wattage will suggest how long it takes to heat up an element of a given mass, but isn't the issue. What happens is that you "store" heat in the element and transfer it to the subject. Using a big tip/80 watt iron on circuit board, you have too much heat flowing around.

On what we do, we need a heavy iron element that stores a large mass of heat that you transfer to the sheet metal.

There are bigger elements than you see in hobbyshops.

My first frames were done using a plumbers iron where the element was bigger than my thumb.

And I have played with pre-electricity irons that were the size of your fist and heated in a fire!

Guns offer "instant" heat, and instant cooling off which has safety advantages. In a gun you swap mass for wattage. A 300watt gun will ususually carry heat similar to the medium hobby tip on a iron, and can be used for smaller sheet soldering.

I use the largest of the Weller tip/80s. Mostly because I walked into a hardware store that was going out of business and sold me four of them for 5 bucks!

Rocky

[Jairus]

I use the largest of the Weller tip/80s. Mostly because I walked into a hardware store that was going out of business and sold me four of them for 5 bucks!

Rocky

I am with you Rocky, I use an 80w Weller with the big tip as well and it seems to work really well for me!

[gascarnut]

There's a mail-order store in SoCal that has a good selection of Weller/Ungar irons heaters and tips at good prices:

Action electronics

I have both a #7760 and a #7770 handle one with the #4033S 45 watt heater/tip, and one with the #33 50 watt heater/tip. The 45 watt tip is a little smaller for finer work, the 50 watt tip will heat up just about any size piece of .062 brass and solder guide tongues real easy. And if the worst comes to the worst, using both together will nuke anything into submission...

[team burrito]

Hakko 455, 1100 deg, 40 watts, $39.99 at Fry's Electronics. I've had mine for over five years and replaced the tip only once. I like the Ungar, but the tip and heater do not last very long. A temperature control is a must for anybody, you don't need a 1000 deg to solder lead wires. Wattage does not matter with soldering irons, it's how effective the heater works and Hakko's work the best.

Click here to find your Hakko today.

[Architect]

Thanks, Prof, for the lesson and Burrito, for the link.

[Cheater]

I like the Ungar, but the tip and heater do not last very long.

And this seems to be the main issue with the Unger/Weller as compared to the Hakko. The expense and trouble of replacing the tips and heaters on the former seems to more than overcome the stiffer cable and larger tip of the Hakko for most.

[Bill from NH]

Some people say Ungar quality went to h*ll when Weller bought them out. I wouldn't know because I haven't bought any of the Weller heaters. I'm still using 35+ year old tips with the external ceramic heaters that cost $4.95. I still have a couple new spares so I'm good to go for awhile. The Hakko is a good iron and I guess that's what I'd use if I didn't still have this old Ungar.

[stuboyle1]

Hakko 455, 1100 deg, 40 watts, $39.99 at Fry's Electronics. I've had mine for over five years and replaced the tip only once. I like the Ungar, but the tip and heater do not last very long. A temperature control is a must for anybody, you don't need a 1000 deg to solder lead wires.

I'm confused. You say temperarture control is a must but I don't see that the Hakko 455 has temperature contol.

Also, I have a 30 watt Weller which doesn't seem to heat nearly as well as it used to. I think I left it on overnight one time by mistake. I looked at Fry's for replacement parts but didn't find any. Is it trashed or are there some inexpensive parts which can be replaced?

Thanks,

[Cheater]

Stu,

He's referring to a separate temp controller, one you plug the soldering iron into, and it has a knob to regulate the power and thus the
temp of the iron itself.

I lot of guys use 'em, but I don't bother with one. The Hakko tips last so long I don't feel it's needed.

[sameolddoc]

And this seems to be the main issue with the Unger/Weller as compared to the Hakko. The expense and trouble of replacing the tips and heaters on the former seems to more than overcome the stiffer cable and larger tip of the Hakko for most.

I've been using used Weller EC and DEC stations and irons I picked up on eBay. Bought two of 'em four years ago for less than $50 each complete. Get the (D)EC 1001, 1002, 2001 or 2002 control units. (At least one of those models is a dual iron controller... very spiffy) and the EC-1201 40W iron. Nice temp control, gets hot quick, have never burnt one out or retipped as of yet, and more than enough power to solder even on heavy stamped steel chassis.

The thing I like most is that the irons are small and light and the power cording isn't stiff... going back to a Hakko feels like wielding a baseball bat.

[team burrito]

As I posted before, you don't need a 1,000 degrees to solder lead wires. Also I like turning the heat down while I'm doing something else other then soldering.

You're right about the cord; it is too stiff, so I changed it to something more flexible. Works much better now.

[Jairus]

Well, I will be the first to admit that a cold beer and a hot iron are not always a good thing...

Forgot to turn off the iron before heading to bed couple of night ago... no fire, but the tip of the iron split and after repeated cleaning with a wet sponge and brass brush... eventually 50% of the exterior coating peeled away. Had to go buy a new Weller tip just to finish the two chassis I was working on.

So, let that be a lesson to you guys, turn off your iron before going to bed!

Me, I won't give up the drink but I WILL BE checking the iron a lot now...

[Cheater]

Jairus, not to add insult to injury, but I have left my Hakko 455 on overnight a few times (as well as having left it on all day at some of the longer racing events) without any particularly noticeable ill effect.

I'm sure doing this shortens the tip life somewhat, but I've still getting nearly two years out of a Hakko tip.

[Jairus]

No insult.
I think that products made now are nowhere near as good a quality as they once were. Quality of steel, manufacturing, and other has all suffered if the item is now made somewhere overseas.

I just have to be more careful is all. Got the new tip on now and it works like a charm!

Its an 80w Weller which was about the only decent soldering iron I could find in the capitol city. You can get a pencil tip electronics type of iron at the local autoparts or craft store but big 80w Weller much less a Hakko? No way!