22 replies to this topic

[Cheater]

In a small building in Beirut, Lebanon, sits the largest collection of toy cars in the world - over 30,000 model cars and 400 dioramas. In this video owner and collector Billy Karam speaks about his incredibly numerous possessions, and tells stories about the struggles and triumphs he endured in creating his astounding, Guinness Book of World Records-awarded collection.



Hey, PdL, looks like you need to keep buying... LOL!

[TSR]

These are not toys, they are models. Most people are too dumb or too ignorant to seize the difference. I will spell it out here for those:
 
- Toys: for little children and teenagers to play with. Once an adult, one may collect them for their inherent charm and quiet simplicity. At the end of the day, some offer a better financial return than any 401K or accumulated gold bullion.
 
- Models: for adults who have never grown up to accumulate every possible effing version of their favorite brand until their wives get tired and leave them, which gives them a bit more space but a lot less cash to buy them. At the end of the day, almost all are virtually worthless and impossible to sell other than for ten cents on the dollar.

[Cheater]

Let me see if I understand correctly. This is a toy, not a model, right?

[Samiam]

God save this guy if he ever starts racing slot cars. Or is it Model Car Racing?

[TSR]

Let me see if I understand correctly. This is a toy, not a model, right?

 
I seize your irony, but no, it is indeed a model. A beautiful one at that, one on which the man who patiently constructed this beauty spent a virtual lifetime. I don't mind that kind of model. There are very few like this one.

The cheap cr*p made in China by the bucketful and collected (bought) by that record-holding hoarder, please spare me the comparison with what I am doing, thank you! 

[slotbaker]

Or is it Model Car Racing?

Or is it Toy Car Racing?


Nice collection of small cars there.

[Rick]

These are not toys, they are models. Most people are too dumb or too ignorant to seize the difference.

 
Sooo, PdL!...  

[MSwiss]

The leaded soldiers at about 2:40 aren't worth anything?

[Cheater]

Sam,

P's just a grumpy old curmudgeon. If and when we both reach his advanced age, we'll most likely act the same way!

Respect your elders, you know... LOL!

[Samiam]

I don't care if his collection isn't worth the glue holding the little guy on the yacht. Very cool and diverse. Military, motorcycles, boats, planes, trains, and automobiles.

 

And all this in a city with a questionable power grid.

[Cheater]

And all this in a city with a questionable power grid.

To say the very least!

[TSR]

The leaded soldiers at about 2:40 aren't worth anything?

 
Not even close to what the guy paid for them, and unlikely to ever be worth as much as paid for if one is to believe the past 30 years of auctions of such stuff.
More power to him if he loves his collection, because collecting must be first about what you like, regardless of what return you may get from it when it is time to unite yourself and a wheelchair or a pot.
Toy soldiers that do return a pretty penny are prewar Britains or German Lineol or similar, but adjusted for inflation, it is still a marginal return compared to other stuff. Also, military MINIATURE collectibles NEVER sell well, while the real thing does, as long as you did not invest in something less manageable such as a DUCKW or a Sherman tank that will not fit either in your garage or your living room!
 

These are not toys, they are models. Most people are too dumb or too ignorant to seize the difference.

 

Sooo, PdL!...

Rick,

Frank, direct, and honest talk  irritates only wishy-washy moderates with no opinions because they are too afraid of their own shadow to express one. It has nothing to do with being old...

But I appreciate the thought.

[JohnnySlotcar]

A crappy DUCKW went for $100k at Mecoms a few weeks ago. Painted red with a rough body!

[TSR]

It will be looking like new after a $500K restoration! 

[Samiam]

World Largest Toy Collection... key word: Toy.
 
Where did model cars get tossed in?
 
And why is their value an issue?
 
As far as seeing this collection in person?... Not a chance.

[TSR]

Sam,

As I said in my first reply, few know the difference. In fact, it is more today than ever because there were no "models" (as in precise model cars, soldiers, tanks, aircraft...) before the early 1960s, the first in the shape of plastic model kits or "promo" model cars. Everything else was... toys for children with no real effort to make them looking line exacting models.

All changed in the early 1970s when several major events took place:

1) The total collapse of the toy industry following the total collapse fo the slot car industry in 1968.
2) The opening of China by former prez Nixon.
3) The regrouping of former toy companies intellectual and remaining physical assets by the holding banks
4) The sale of these assets at auction in Great Britain, Germany, France, Italy and the United States.
5) The multiple strikes that paralyzed the remaining European toy-making industries, forcing the holding companies to move their businesses to more business-friendly countries, namely China since Japan had become too expensive.
6) The birth of ultra-high precision models made in China, in the same manner as what happened to the slot car home-racing market, and the definite split with toys for children that went totally the other way.
 
So today you have two distinct entities:

1) The TOY industry, catering to preteen children, with rather garish plastic stuff derived mostly from comic strips and TV series. Toys-R-Us content, if you have been there lately.
 
2) The MODEL industry, producing very precise, incredibly detailed MODELS of real objects or people, cars, aircraft, military etc., sold either in kits or more and more, fully assembled and decorated by an army of Chinese ladies. Examples: Franklin Mint, the Danbury Mint, CMC, plus a large number of other Chinese-based companies peddling thousands of models in various scales worldwide. Some exhibit truly amazing precision.

These are not purchased by children but by adults, such as this collector in Lebanon. Bless him if he enjoys himself, but he is going to be real sorry when he will attempt to sell, if he does. Indeed, "investing" in Chinese model cars, ships, military or aircraft is a bit like throwing money to the wind. eBay is FULL of such items for sale or resale, with few takers at ANY price. So if you collect these things, better like them because you are pretty much stuck with them. Reputable auction companies refuse to sell collections of such models, as the entire world is inundated by them, and stocks are piling, UP. Action was the first to rise, then fall on its face when their NASCAR models eventually reached saturation point. GMP is another, and it is not over yet. Simply, too many and not enough customers.
 
There is a small segment of this new era of "toy" making, that of nostalgia, where re-organized toy companies such as Marklin or Schuco attempt to make replicas of their old tinplate toys from the past. Thing is, it is a hard sale when a collector can get the real thing for not much more, and more bad news will come from such companies soon enough...
 
The real value is in collecting the "real thing", meaning toys meant to be toys and never meant to be collected, but played with. Of the thousands different ones made in the day, before or after WW1 and WW2, only a small minority, less than 5%, are truly worth collecting, either because the others are too cr*ppy or they simply lack "charm" and "aura", attracting few collectors. Hence the "good" toys are very expensive, and this is why some sell at auction for what most people, unaware of the true value of today's falling currencies, believe to be ludicrous. But the prices keep rising, as more collectors become aware of their existence and beauty. Such was the case for THIS EXAMPLE two weeks ago.

It is a choice to make, and one should only collect what he enjoys, but throwing money out the window is not something I personally enjoy doing. In any case, toys are not models, and models are not toys, and the title of that article shows the ignorance of the writer, and of the Guiness.

[Cheater]

Nice essay, P. It gets the Cheater Seal of Approval, for what that's worth (very little).

The abstract is "Anything intentionally made to be collectible will almost never be."

At least in our lifetimes and beyond...

[TSR]

Indeed. No one can read the tea leaves as well as a twenty-dollar gypsy, but a bit of discrimination and education saves from costly mistakes.

I have several friends who collected John Day 1/43 scale model kits, buying huge amounts of them for relatively hefty prices when they were available in the 1970s. The gentleman who used to run MESAC, Chuck Hooton, is one.

Today you simply can't GIVE that stuff away, no one wants it.

The same is valid for virtually all the generations of model cars from 1970 onwards: each new generation that comes out is so much better that it obsoletes the previous one, making the existing models very hard if not impossible to sell...

This is why you should never collect MODEL CARS for investment, only for the timely enjoyment of them.
 
It's a bit like for the Ty "Beany Babies", some people paid HUGE amounts for what is now, totally worthless.
There are of course (very) few exceptions to this rule...
 
One thing is sure: true collectibles were never meant to be so. Toys were never meant to be models, and models were never meant to be toys.

And toys of all kinds, (well, a relatively limited number of them of course), is where both the money and the true collecting enjoyment are.

Toys can be small or large and encompass a wide variety of subjects.


 
"You'll shoot your eye out!"

[Hot Deuce]

I agree that these should be referred to as model cars as the owner called them in the clip - However beauty is in the eye of the beholder - As I am sure that some children who currently play with these types of cars will fondly remember them as the toy cars of his/her youth

 

Also I think this clip goes to prove that Guinness can't always be looked to as the ultimate authority for all things

[TSR]

And neither should Wikipedia!  

[Hot Deuce]

And neither should Wikipedia!  

 

Agree

[Pappy]

The toys you want to collect are the one's nobody wants, at the time. The original Star Wars bad guys are the one's that are worth the most because nobody wanted them when they first came out.

[TSR]

Butch,

it is actually rarely the case for classic toys. The most desirable tin toys were the most popular, or at least the most desirable if not affordable in the old days.
 

But I agree that in the "Plastic Era" (post 1965 to this day), the most desirable stuff is the one that did not sell well. Basically, the uglier stuff!