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A sponsor clarification...


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#1 Tom Thumb Hobbies

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:33 AM

I would like to make one point perfectly clear. Unlike what has been insinuated on FaceBook I did NOT ask Ron Hershman to NOT be a sponsor of the R4. Nor did I ask him to be a sponsor either. While he and his companies have, in the past, been very supportive of me and the R4, for which I was and am grateful, his recent actions have showed little in the way of support. In fact he and his fellow LLC board members criticize almost everything that I or the IRRA™ do or say.

It is curious to me and many others why he has waited this long to "support the racers". Why begin this effort less than two years ago? Is it a coincidence this began just about the time of the split in Retro? I have to wonder if the real motive here is more to garner support for his own organization and less to support the R4 and those who are coming to race.

Like a few other sponsors did, he never called ME about sponsor possibilities. I know he never contacted me, Noose, or tonyp about All Star sponsorship. And he is welcome to come and compete as well. So why a FaceBook post insinuating he and his companies are not welcome?


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#2 Matt Bruce

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 11:33 AM

The problem, like with so many other things in this world, is social media. Facebook, Internet, it's all the same. Things get out of control in cyberspace, people say things a lot of times out of context. I see it in business everyday, emails and texts instead of picking up the phone or setting a meeting. A Ping pong match of 20 emails that could have all been avoided with one phone call.

 

While I can't comment really on Ron, I have never hid behind the fact that I as well as others want everyone racing together. That's not to say I disagree with multiple organizations because I do not. I have had conversations with Ron on the PHONE and on social media. Maybe he is lying to me, I don't think so, but he wants the same. There is no reason why organizations can't get along as long as they sit down and come up with a solution for working together. Honestly, the majority of racers, myself included, would and do race in both.

 

Dividing Retro is just so silly. Believing the BS that goes on social media creates its own roadblocks which both sides seem to listen to. Airing dirty laundry never helps any situation. Each one exploits each other's rules like some presidential campaign to really what end? Ron is a very prideful person as are the BoD. It does not surprise me with what is said over social media that neither wanna move off their mountains. For the sake of argument, if I were Ron I would have felt I was not welcome to sponsor or race either.

 

But on the other hand, reading social media and the non-constructive comments of the minions I can see why no one would have asked him. Either way, I personally have found in both business and life to get back to the basics. Look both in the eye, get back to shaking hands and using today's technology as a tool and not as something to hide behind. I think the time is passed for who said what and who thinks they are right and who thinks who is wrong. Some people just wanna watch the world burn. It's very easy to see who those people are watching social media.

 

Are we really that different that no common ground can be had? I think not. I see both sides and I understand very clearly how we got to this point. In the end it's about I was right and you are wrong meanwhile racers are left in the middle just really wanting to race together. We have all been friends for a long time and know the slot car landscape.

 

History tends to repeat itself. Retro is a chance to change that.


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#3 Cap Henry

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 11:52 AM

And that's why Matt is so respected.
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#4 Bernie

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 01:20 PM

Well said, Matt.


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#5 Dennis Krivacek

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 03:55 PM

Matt,

 

Thank you for your post. VERY well-written!!!



#6 JerseyJohn

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 07:11 PM

Well said, Matt...


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#7 Cheater

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 08:21 PM

Matt,

Please know I have the utmost respect for you as a person and as a racer, but I must disagree with several of your points and conclusions.
 

Dividing Retro is just so silly.


And please make sure you understand exactly whose actions directly resulted in the schism to which you refer. To put it plainly, the second competing Retro organization was not created by the IRRA™ BoD; it was created by a disgruntled former member of the IRRA™ BoD who seemingly feels his opinions are superior to the opinions as promulgated by the deliberations of the five-member IRRA™ BoD. And who decided brazenly to attempt to purloin the original organization's history and reputation by using the same name for his newly-created competing Retro organization.
 

I think the time is passed for who said what and who thinks they are right and who thinks who is wrong.


To ascribe the situation currently in effect in Retro as revolving around who is "right" and who is "wrong" is IMO missing the point entirely.

A founding member of IRRA™ was unanmiously voted off the organization's BoD by the other BoD members due to a perceived lack of integrity combined with clear evidence that the member also was not willing to publicly support the results of the deliberations of the Board of which he was a member. As I have posted before, no Board of Directors in any field can tolerate a member who does not support the process in which he is involved and in this specific instance, it is my opinion that not a single member of the IRRA™ BoD was willing to continue to serve alongside the member who was voted off. Please confirm this claim with the other three IRRA™ BoD members before accepting it as gospel; I am not trying to speak for them.
 
And I must strongly disagree that the basic differences between the two organizations involve "pride" to any great extent. As in many situations in life and business, the core issues clearly revolve around power and control. And the racers, with their actions, will decide which agenda they prefer, as they always do, though a portion will recuse themselves by supporting both organizations, thus making no choice.


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#8 John Miller

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 08:28 PM

Well said, Matt!


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#9 Gator Bob

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 08:49 PM

I understand one party may have held out an olive branch but nothing reciprocal took place.


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#10 Noose

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 08:55 PM

No, one party held out demands.


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#11 Gator Bob

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:00 PM

Since spring is coming and the ice is melting how about an "Icebreaker" combo event to start the healing process?


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#12 kvanpelt

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:27 PM

When is enough already?


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#13 Cheater

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:34 PM

Damn good question, KVP!


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#14 Mike Patterson

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:37 PM

Mike,

 

No clarification was needed.

 

You need to spend less time on Facebook. It's the heroin of the internet.


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#15 John Miller

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:00 PM

... And the racers, with their actions, will decide which agenda they prefer, as they always do, though a portion will recuse themselves by supporting both organizations, thus making no choice.

 
Cheater, are you implying that the racers should choose between the organizations? Originally, I noticed that you used the word "save" themselves by supporting both orgs.... I find that interesting because I thought that us racers were all just hanging out racing cars with good friends regardless of which organization. I didn't realize that I was recusing or saving myself...
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#16 Dennis David

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:05 PM

Am I wrong or are most of the rules very similar such that we could find a compromise somewhere? Isn't this mostly about motors? If so can't there be come common classes at least?


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#17 kvanpelt

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:09 PM

Yes, turn off your FB accounts for a week and enjoy the races and friends at a really great raceway.

 

FB is evil!!!!!!


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#18 Samiam

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:24 PM

Am I wrong or are most of the rules very similar such that we could find a compromise somewhere? Isn't this mostly about motors? If so can't there be come common classes at least?


NO! It's about integrity. Or in this case the total lack of.
 
Racers will race anywhere they can. We just want to enjoy our sport. The banner we race under is less important than the racing. This has been demonstrated by the great turn-out at the so called All Star race. A reported 51 racers!
 
I don't see a reconciliation. All I see is a amicable divorce.
 
Support those who support the sport.
 
Lets race.
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#19 Gator Bob

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:29 PM

No, one party held out demands.

 

Joe, Were they demands that could not be met or discussed to find some common ground?


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#20 JerseyJohn

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:40 PM

To quote Rodney King...
 
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LMAO...
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#21 redbackspyder

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:44 PM

John, I thought the real quote by Rodney was: "Why can't we all just get a bong?"

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#22 Tom Thumb Hobbies

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:47 PM

Most of you know I have said very little for the 18 or so months since the split. I simply am tired of being accused of actions I did not do nor had any part in. Whether by direct accusation or just letting a false statement continue uncorrected it is still the same. I took the BoD position and voted to keep the ORS with the IRRA™ because what we have now is the best thing for slot racing in a long, long, time even with its faults. And, I simply think it is foolish to burn down a house just because it needs a coat of paint.

I agree with Matt. Something needs to be done for the good of ALL Retro racers. Some say that since the split there is more opportunity for everyone to race. What has actually happened is it has diminished racing at most events. Turn off the Spin-O-Matic and take off your blinders and realize that an improving economy has put more racers in raceways, not the current Retro split. What would the numbers look like without the animosity between the groups?

The current climate is not very conducive to cooperation. A start was made several weeks ago to try for some level of cooperation. The LLC was asked to begin with their topic list. Instead we received a demand that we never again discourage racers or raceways from running LLC events. A private conversation via text message was offered as proof of the IRRA™ guilt. It was between a track owner and an IRRA™ BoD member. It WAS not the comments or thoughts of the BoD but that BoD members own personal opinion. Not OUR opinion but HIS. And it was a warning, friend to friend, that in his opinion the LLC founder could not be trusted. A bit of a stretch to consider that a campaign to discourage racers away from the LLC.

Meanwhile, no mention at all is made about the comparisons between farm animals, insects, and sex toys and the IRRA™ BoD members made by one of the LLC Executive Committee. I don't see how anyone would consider this type of behavior a serious attempt to coexist and cooperate.

Like Matt I still hold out hope for an end to this schism in Retro. But this is NOT the way to start.
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#23 Rusty Pinion

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:48 PM

NO! It's about integrity. Or in this case the total lack of.
 
Racers will race anywhere they can. We just want to enjoy our sport. The banner we race under is less important than the racing. This has been demonstrated by the turn-out at the so called All Star race. A reported 51 racers.
 
I don't see a reconciliation. All I see is a amicable divorce.
 
Support those who support the Sport.
 
Lets race.


 Really??? You think 51 racers is a joke or something..??  Get real.

Oh... and I hate to tell you... but slot racing is not a sport... it's a hobby. People show up a pay admission to watch a sport... I never known that to happen with slot cars.
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#24 Rusty Pinion

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 11:00 PM

The current climate is not very conducive to cooperation. A start was made several weeks ago to try for some level of cooperation. The LLC was asked to begin with their topic list. Instead we received a demand that we never again discourage racers or raceways from running LLC events. A private conversation via text message was offered as proof of the IRRA™ guilt. It was between a track owner and an IRRA™ BoD member. It WAS not the comments or thoughts of the BoD but that BoD members own personal opinion. Not OUR opinion but HIS. And it was a warning, friend to friend, that in his opinion the LLC founder could not be trusted. A bit of a stretch to consider that a campaign to discourage racers away from the LLC.


 Well... let's look at this... doesn't a IRRA™ BoD member voicing his personal opinion reflect back on the BoD that he is a member of... Of course it does. It's just like how the employees attitude reflects back on his employer.
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#25 Samiam

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 11:04 PM

Hugh,

I should have clarified that. Absolutely the exact opposite. That was a great turn-out even with life threatening weather reports. It shows that racers will race, no matter what the controversy over whose banner is flying.
 
Hobby? Sport? Whatever! I just want to RACE!
 
(Edited that post to clarify.)
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#26 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 12:01 AM

Motorsports, boxing, bull-fighting, and a few other things are sports, Everything else is just a game. So pay your money and go watch your game. Football, baseball, basketball, golf, soccer, polo, etc., etc., etc. JUST GAMES. Racing is my sport no matter what scale, 1 to 1 or whatever.
 
Regards,

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#27 Samiam

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 12:41 AM

Lap counter off... Hobby.
 
Lap counter on... Sport.
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#28 Rick

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 12:48 AM

Sport: Salary, contract, earnings, paid spectators, arenas, fields, television, radio coverage, etc.
 
Hobby: Braggin' rights, bowling trophy, cheap dash plaque, and twelve people know about it... :)
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#29 Gator Bob

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 01:13 AM

hobby

noun,
1. an activity or interest pursued for pleasure or relaxation and not as a main occupation:
 
sport
1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
2. a particular form of this, especially in the out of doors.
 
diversion  (the tact of getting off the main topic of this post)

noun

1. the act of diverting or turning aside, as from a course or purpose:

2. distraction from business, care, etc.; recreation; amusement; a pastime: 
 
 

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#30 John Streisguth

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 05:45 AM

IMO, whoever made a private text message public should be ashamed of himself. 


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#31 One_Track_Mind

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 06:08 AM

I'm not at all, John!!

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#32 Cheater

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 06:32 AM

Cheater, are you implying that the racers should choose between the organizations? Originally, I noticed that you used the word "save" themselves by supporting both orgs.... I find that interesting because I thought that us racers were all just hanging out racing cars with good friends regardless of which organization. I didn't realize that I was recusing or saving myself...


John,

The statement I made was that racers "will decide which agenda they prefer"; I made no implication that they "should" do so.

The word "save" does not appear in my post #7. If you are referring to another post elsewhere, please point me to it.

Is it not obvious that a racer who attends events run under both organizations' rules by his actions is not expressing a preference for one over the other?


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#33 Rich Goucher

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 06:38 AM

Will racers soon have to have either a TM or LLC tattooed on their forehead soon to continue racing?

Relative newcomer not to amused by politics in the big Retro leagues. Play together nice, respect one another, or stay home. Simple.
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#34 Cheater

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 06:48 AM

The spin continues...

Will racers soon have to have either a TM or LLC tattooed on their forehead soon to continue racing?


Not at all, Rich. It's just like the grocery store, where one can elect to buy whole or 2% milk, or both.
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#35 Cheater

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 07:53 AM

Oh... and I hate to tell you... but slot racing is not a sport... it's a hobby. People show up a pay admission to watch a sport...


Really, Hugh? I don't recall ever having to pay an admission to attend a HS football or baseball game, nor Little League games either. I'm sure the hundreds of thousands of coaches and players in those actvities will be pleased to hear your dismissive opinion of their activities.

And since the spectators at THIS FORM of racing didn't pay admission, it's just a hobby too, by your definition.


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#36 Pappy

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 08:39 AM

There's an old saying "don't start any sh!t and there won't be any". Does anyone know who started all this sh!t?


Jim "Butch" Dunaway
 
Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.
 
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NF-UE

#37 One_Track_Mind

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 08:52 AM

Take a look at the original poster of the thread?!

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Brian McPherson

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#38 Cheater

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 08:57 AM

Uh, Brian, this thread was posted in response to dishonest and untrue crap posted elsewhere on the web. To suggest on any level that the situation in Retro was started here in this thread is utterly laughable.


Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#39 One_Track_Mind

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:02 AM

I have four races instead of two at REM, because of all this going on in Retro. Please explain how that is a bad thing?

 

As far as any sponsorship for an upcoming Retro race, seems to me, you would go to those who have sponsored the event from the start of the first one.

 

Just my opinion.


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Brian McPherson

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#40 idare2bdul

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:07 AM

"History tends to repeat itself. Retro is a chance to change that."

 

It doesn't look likely. IRRA™ chose not to race under D3s rules and D3s rules caused internal dissent. I think some of the rules IRRA™ adopted, especially the minimum weight and motor rules, were improvements but obviously the SoCal racers didn't embrace those changes. Having unified rules makes way too much sense, but I'm not expecting logic to overcome personal issues any time soon. 

 

As for Ron, he took a lot of heat for things that I suspect most if not all were unfounded, that tends to make one a little touchy or even vindictive.

 

It would be nice if everybody would just decide to play nice and enjoy what racing has to offer.


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#41 Pappy

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:36 AM

I have four races instead of two at REM, because of all this going on in Retro. Please explain how that is a bad thing?

 

Brian,

 

To me it's all about the atmosphere and fun.

 

Remember the very first Ohio Valley Retro race at Fast Eddie's in Richmond, IN, where we met. The atmosphere was fantastic and if I remember correctly you even won a race.

 

The atmosphere is not like that any more. When I watched the R4 warm-up race online the atmosphere was the best I've seen in a long time. I am now looking forward to getting back into Retro racing next season. "Go, Retro Hawks."


Jim "Butch" Dunaway
 
Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.
 
Washington D.C. the largest rats nest in the world

NF-UE

#42 One_Track_Mind

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:39 AM

Pappy,

 

I remember that day very well!! It's the only time I ever won a race.

 

You obviously need to attend a race at REM and join in the fun we have there. No matter of what 'group' is there.

 

I see the competition being greater too than what we first experienced, guys are more serious about their race programs.


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Brian McPherson

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#43 Steve Deiters

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:39 AM

Butch: I'm looking forward to getting back into Retro next season.

 

Why wait? If you come up to see some of the R4/7 races make sure you bring your controller with you. I'm sure there will be extra cars floating around.  Maybe even one with a Retro Hawk in it.



#44 Pappy

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 10:04 AM

I'll be there on Thursday and Saturday, Steve, but just to watch.

 

On Thursday I want to see the painting seminar. When I get back into Retro I want to race my own equipment, to me that's the fun of it. And since I won't be spending all my time before the race organizing everything hopefully I can be more competitive.


Jim "Butch" Dunaway
 
Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.
 
Washington D.C. the largest rats nest in the world

NF-UE

#45 One_Track_Mind

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 10:07 AM

Steve Koepp does a wonderful job of teaching anybody to paint!!

 

Trust me! If I can do it, anyone can! LOL! 8-)


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Brian McPherson

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#46 Rusty Pinion

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 03:41 PM

Really, Hugh? I don't recall ever having to pay an admission to attend a HS football or baseball game, nor Little League games either. I'm sure the hundreds of thousands of coaches and players in those actvities will be pleased to hear your dismissive opinion of their activities.

And since the spectators at THIS FORM of racing didn't pay admission, it's just a hobby too, by your definition.

 

Gee, Greg... when my youngest son (who is now 28 by the way) was still in high school... Hell yeah we HAD to PAY admission to the games. Now we didn't have to pay to get in a Little league game... because we PAID for them to play. You need to do better than that.

 

Also how many racers make a living racing slot cars? (I'm not talking manufacturers or track owners either.) I'm talking guys that race collect their paycheck at the end of the race and support their family with it. You know of some? Name them.


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#47 MSwiss

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 03:44 PM

I understand one party may have held out an olive branch but nothing reciprocal took place.


Bob,
 
Do posts from LLC officials like below on an Facebook page, seen (yesterday or today) by about 60 racers, look like ones from an org holding out an olive branch?

 

Larry Mattingly: If you CHOOSE to race under TM rules, my suggestion is to suck it up buttercup... No one is holding a gun to your head to attend their races and race under their BS rules...
March 8 at 7:32pm

Jay KislingEvery decision they make is rushed and not thought out. You would think after seven yrs. They might look at previous mistakes but no its always a knee jerk reaction. BOD = Bozos on drugs
March 8 at 7:37pm

 
Bob,

Posts like the above, and the constant railing by Ron this year that the Retro Hawks, an IRRA™ approved motor, can easily be cheated on, have me a bit skeptical and believing that their talk about a truce is nothing but a publicity stunt.
 
I know you think if you get on Facebook, they (Facebook) will start transmitting microwaves to your brain.
 
Obviously you have strong opinions about every issue in slot racing,  but in the case of Retro racing, you know about 17% of what's going on because of your reluctance to get on Facebook.
 
So please don't be surprised if a lot of your questions and comments fall to deaf ears.
 
Back to Facebook, the LLC/Ron has even gone as far as now starting a second, public, PG-rated, less incendiary FB page, named Slot Talk (also the name of an existing Facebook page)
 
If they were serious about a reconciliation, it seems to me that they would of discontinued the "over-served on a barstool", Slot Chat version.
 
Bob, please don't respond to this post unless you are going to answer the first question posed. TYIA.


Mike Swiss
 
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#48 Gator Bob

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 03:53 PM

I'll go out on a 'limb' here... I don't 'do' Facebook or internet C21H23 NO5 . :crazy:

 

And this has me totally lost.  :wacko2: Bob who? Me?  :laugh2:  Who wrote this?... if that is addressed to me I'll respond.


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#49 MSwiss

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 03:57 PM

My post was directed to you, Bob Israelite.

 

Is the above recent Facebook post one of an org really wanting reconciliation?


Mike Swiss
 
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
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mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#50 MSwiss

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 04:00 PM

Bob I,

A simple "Yes" or "No".
 
No posts of YouTube videos needed. :)
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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.






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