15 replies to this topic

[Gator Bob]

I have zero experience racing padlocks....

 

Here is what I have to work with.

 

Questions:

1. Are these motors timed CW/CCW or set at zero?
2. If I take it apart what is the method and orientation for re-zapping?
3. Should I change out the 5 pole Pittman for the 7 pole Ram or leave it stock?
4. Would a 'radial' wound arm from John "H -Power" be faster than a skip a pole or two standard wind?
5. I have a good gear selection ... where should I start for a  rail on a scale 1000ft strip?
6. How long and what voltage should I brake it in on the power supply ... days or weeks ... LOL

 

[JohnnySlotcar]

Definately upgrade the stock arm. Ball races are a press fit. I have a Trick Trax old school zapper that works great I'm sure Alpha could do it and give you before and after gauss readings. He can also balance those "Big Iron" arms and cut the comms.

[Uncle Fred]

I'd do the Ram armature with 3 to 1 gears to start.

[Hworth08]

How many volts? I think it varied by class but in the old days the top cars used 36 volts with the voltage coming down as the cars the classes represented were lower horsepower.

 

Gosh, in the early 60s there might not have been any funny cars.

[SlotStox#53]

Reading the old Pittman articles of Steve O they were mentioning something in the region of 2:1 for the ratio and go up to like 2.5:1 or 3:1 as the volts went upto 36! Nice selection of gears and parts Bob

 

Don , I think the strips voltage is 14V for the Proxy

 

Was kind of in the dark over gear ratio aswell ,having never built or raced a dragster before it's like Was either thinking of big ratio like 4:1 but then

reading the articles it appears that 2-2.5:1 was the sweet spot for at least the DC85's ...

[Foamy]

I'm going to do 2.5something.

I would like to say how it would be the hot tip or something, but the fact is my heap is made with a 92 tooth gear spacing.

Sadly, that is the only gear set I have that will fit.

 

I can trade somebody a new Weldon gear for a 68 tooth Weldun gear. . .

 

1) Gears need to be on the right side of the car. There is a little bit of timing on Ram arms.

2) Zapping the motor needs to be done with the motor assembled. + and - are the sides with the fild pieces.

3) If your Ram is a 3 volt, then change it. As I recall (?!) the fast Gas class cars had 6 volt 85's. 4

4) I don't anyone that wound 5 or 7 poles 1 pole at a time. Better or worse, who knows. .  .

5) Ahhh, that is what "Secret Track Testing" is all about. Start around 2.8, go up and down checking all times and speed.

6) umm, maybe 3 volts for 10 minutes or so, then fire that thing down the track. Will take a couple runs to get "good".

[Ramcatlarry]

The nylon plates on the pittman commutator were ALWAYS the weak link and RAM was the first to provide the welded commutator that was LESS prone to exploding on the 36+ volts of three car batteries.  been there......wish I knew where my old magwinder ended up.

[SlotStox#53]

Thanks for all the advice for Bob on these motors
Helped me a great deal too! Got both a nos 6v Pittman arm and a RAM 3v with two motors to play with.

[Gator Bob]

Thanks all, for the replies and guidance!

 

Sorry I didn't state the track voltage ... 14.7 is what it will be run at.

[Gator Bob]

Foamy....

Or anyone:

 

I'm going to do 2.5something.

I would like to say how it would be the hot tip or something, but the fact is my heap is made with a 92 tooth gear spacing.

Sadly, that is the only gear set I have that will fit.

 

I can trade somebody a new Weldon gear for a 68 tooth Weldun gear. . .

I think you meant 72 not 92 correct?

I'll see if I have a 68. What pinion do you have?

 

1) Gears need to be on the right side of the car. There is a little bit of timing on Ram arms.

Still not clear as the motor can be mounted with the brushes to the left or right. So... are  these motor CW or CCW looking at the brush side (endbell ... lol)

 

2) Zapping the motor needs to be done with the motor assembled. + and - are the sides with the fild pieces.

Yes understood zap as an assembly regardless of NOS or when ever the motor is taken apart.

My local track has an old zapper like the one shown below ... How does it get placed in the zapper? ???

 

3) If your Ram is a 3 volt, then change it. As I recall (?!) the fast Gas class cars had 6 volt 85's. 4

The ram came loose and not packaged indicating 'voltage' rating. Is there a resistance # to check to determine which wind it is?

 

4) I don't anyone that wound 5 or 7 poles 1 pole at a time. Better or worse, who knows. .  .

John 'H' can you answer this from your experience?

 

5) Ahhh, that is what "Secret Track Testing" is all about. Start around 2.8, go up and down checking all times and speed.

To be fair ... I will not be testing on the drag strip we are running the proxy on or any drag strip for that matter.

It's just not fair to those who don't have a strip to test on.

It will be what it is the day of the race.

 

 umm, maybe 3 volts for 10 minutes or so, then fire that thing down the track. Will take a couple runs to get "good".

OK ...

 

Question?

Put a heavier brush  tension spring on it?

 

[SlotStox#53]

It should be placed in the Zapper like this Bob

 

 

 

All will be revealed !

[Foamy]

Foamy....

Or anyone:

 

 

Question?

Put a heavier brush  tension spring on it?

Ballpoint pen spring.

Magnet zapper.jpg

I can trade somebody a new Weldon gear for a 68 tooth Weldun gear. . .

I think you meant 72 not 92 correct?

I'll see if I have a 68. What pinion do you have?

92 teeth is the total for the pinion and spur. Any 2 gears that have that total will have the proper fit.

 

1) Gears need to be on the right side of the car. There is a little bit of timing on Ram arms.

Still not clear as the motor can be mounted with the brushes to the left or right. So... are  these motor CW or CCW looking at the brush side (endbell ... lol)

CW looking at the brushes. Motor only goes one direction if the gears are on the right side of the car. Direction like a TSR motor.

 

2) Zapping the motor needs to be done with the motor assembled. + and - are the sides with the field pieces.

Yes understood zap as an assembly regardless of NOS or when ever the motor is taken apart.

My local track has an old zapper like the one shown below ... How does it get placed in the zapper? ???

Like the pic above. Turn the pole pieces of the zapper around.

 

3) If your Ram is a 3 volt, then change it. As I recall (?!) the fast Gas class cars had 6 volt 85's. 4

The ram came loose and not packaged indicating 'voltage' rating. Is there a resistance # to check to determine which wind it is?

A half ohm if I remember correctly.

[Gator Bob]

Thanks again... Dennis.

BTW I have a spare Weldun 69t for you if that would help.

 

Great links Paul.     I'm a little over my head with these padlocks but will keep learning everything I can then will apply it. 

 

Just to confirm timing and rotation for the stock 6v arm .. CW looking at brush holder end, the drive gear on the opposite end and driving on the right side of the car .... looking at the car from the rear.

 

[SlotStox#53]

You're welcome Bob, haven't got a clue myself It's as much of a learning curve for me too .

The hardest part looking at it is putting the motors back together if you take em apart. A little fiddly but left a bit,right a bit & twist here et voila!

[Pitt Man]

Hi guys,

 

Maybe I could shed a LITTLE light here.

 

You all gave me the bug and I've been building an 85A of my own.

 

I started with a nos 85a 6 volt and machined the end plates out to .250 to accept standard size ball bearings. (original bushing od is .218")

 

I then static epoxy balanced the arm on my Tradeship balancer. Don't have one or a razor balancer? Try using the rack in your oven or your BBQ grill! I discovered this by accident in the 60's curing epoxied arms in Mom's oven and the heavy sides would always rotate to the bottom.

 

I then added a heavy brush spring from a Ram #701 spring and plunger kit.

 

Although the Pittman arm appears to have no timing advance, my motor runs much faster CCW when viewed from the brush end. (gears on driver side) Just spin yours up and see which way it's happiest at.

 

For gears, I chose a set of 32, yes 32 pitch Kemtron gears. Turns out these gears are incredibly silky smooth. Having such course teeth allows for a bit of runout without any tight spots. Unfortunately,

there are not a lot of choices for ratios, I chose 2.66:1. Only one size of spur gear was made and a few pinions. See pics below for the original instruction sheet and what is available. Some of these are currently the bay.

 

I compared a Ram 6 volt arm to the Pittman but did not like the fact that the shaft diameter is .0005"-.0007" smaller than the Pittman. This may not seem like much, but it does allow the shaft to spin inside the ball bearings or slop around inside the standard bushings and allow more brush bounce and a sloppier fit of the pinion.

 

Also the Ram com is .375" diameter compared to the Pittman's .312 diameter. This messes up the geometry of the brushes to the com and I did not want to mess around with bending the brush arms and/or cutting down the carbon tips and re-arcing them.

 

After this work, the Pittman wraps up nicely!

 

Dennis, I see Electric Dreams has a very nice selection of Weldun set screw spurs available. If these are not quite right, I have a NOS 68 tooth taper lock gear for you, just PM me.

 

Bob, pm me and I could send you a set of the Ram spings and plunger.

 

Here are a few pics

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gator Bob]

Outstanding contribution Pitt-Man.

 

I've spoke of those Kemtron gears on here Slotblog before, the was much feed back on my question of pitch or compatibility.

I have a 'bunch' of those pinions on hand but never held or saw a picture other than a catalog drawing of the spur. 

 

Those Speedway motor brackets look like the 'bomb' for builds and setting the mesh.

 

Anyone that need those pinions just send me a PM. I have 6 tooth and up.

 

Bob, I will PM you to take you up on the spring kit .. Thanks!

 

I contacted Paul at Alpha today about balancing, comm cut and zapping as an assembly.

He said he only has the capability to balance 1/8" arms but not cut the comm and could only zap the magnet out of the motor.

 

So.. for the Rods and Rails proxy the best I can get done in time is upgrade the springs and zap the assembly.  

Then ... later on I'm going to learn how to 'mess around' with these very cool Made in the U.S.A. old motors.   

 

The ones that don't work out will get a very long 1/8" shaft and be used as hammers to smash up chinese FK junk.