13 replies to this topic

[don.siegel]

I was looking for period motors to use in my R&C Proxy entry, and of course I had a couple of the well-known French 16D rewinds, one of the most common at the time. But I have also found on ebay, over the years, a couple motors with a "Tracker" label, that look from about the same period, Probably based on a Russkit 23, simple rewind and balance, don't think special magnets or anything of that kind. 

 

I also realized one of the French motors has a black, first generation endbell without the heat sinks - anybody ever seen another one of these? 

 

Don 

 

 

The French with 1st gen black endbell: 

 

 

 

The standard French 16D: 

 

 

And the Tracker; looks very similar to the French, balancing holes smaller and not quite as neat. Even the direction arrow looks the same however. 

 

 

[havlicek]

Cool Don (though not as cool as the French  ).  Never heard of them, but back in the early days there were so many who saw an opportunity in making the Mabuchis perform better, it was hard to keep track.  The French just above the Tracker seems like the white was overpainted on what was originally a yellow can if you look at the places where the paint was chipped.  Unless that is really "Russkit Gold" and the color didn't translate, who's can would that have originally been with the blind bushing???

 

-john

[don.siegel]

Hi John, 

 

In person it looks a lot more like the Russkit gold; funny how it does look more yellow in the photo. Given how many other cars used Russkit motors (especialy the 22 and 33, more than the 23), I kinda think that Russkit acted as sort of a distributor of these models of Mabuchis - maybe Philippe asked Jim Russell about that? 

 

I decided I will use that French (with the brush heat sinks) on my R&C proxy; I didn't tear it down, but I did take out the brushes and clean them off and check the springs - but they're 4 coils and still in very good shape - and that's unusual for this type of motor! Put a little extra pressure on them, and it sounds very good. We'll see on the track tho... 

 

Don 

[havlicek]

Ah...I thought that might be Don.  Between cameras and monitors, the colors can really change.  

 

 

 

Given how many other cars used Russkit motors (especialy the 22 and 33, more than the 23), I kinda think that Russkit acted as sort of a distributor of these models of Mabuchis - maybe Philippe asked Jim Russell about that? 

 

Good thought.  It DOES seem that the Russkits were the "basic foundation" for so many of these early custom winders' efforts!  Once again, you've inspired me to go back and do one "old-school".  

 

-john

[Gator Bob]

I was looking for period motors to use in my R&C Proxy entry, and of course I had a couple of the well-known French 16D rewinds, one of the most common at the time. But I have also found on ebay, over the years, a couple motors with a "Tracker" label, that look from about the same period, Probably based on a Russkit 23, simple rewind and balance, don't think special magnets or anything of that kind. 

 

I also realized one of the French motors has a black, first generation endbell without the heat sinks - anybody ever seen another one of these? 

 

Don 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The standard French 16D: 

 

 

And the Tracker; looks very similar to the French, balancing holes smaller and not quite as neat. Even the direction arrow looks the same however. 

 

 

 

 

Hi Don,

I've only had 2 NOS French motors over the years. Both were white endbells. Never owned a Tracker ... or a French with the endbell pinned like that.

 

Hi John, 

 

 

I decided I will use that French (with the brush heat sinks) on my R&C proxy; I didn't tear it down, but I did take out the brushes and clean them off and check the springs - but they're 4 coils and still in very good shape - and that's unusual for this type of motor! Put a little extra pressure on them, and it sounds very good. We'll see on the track tho... 

 

Don 

 

Good choice ... consider soldering the brush hold to the hood.

 

 

 

Good thought.  It DOES seem that the Russkits were the "basic foundation" for so many of these early custom winders' efforts!  Once again, you've inspired me to go back and do one "old-school".  

 

-john

 

Ah yes ... the old basic foundation inspiration bug   

[Steve Okeefe]

Don,

 

I've been lurking around this subject for a few days now, mostly because I'm very interested in the possible existence of a French FT-16 with a black endbell, but also because I didn't feel like I had a lot to add to the discussion in the way of new or useful information.  I've been waiting for someone to drop a shoe.

 

On the other hand this is a discussion forum. so let's discuss.

 

I have no proof that a French FT-16 with black endbell ever existed as a product sold by French, however I do have some clues:

 

 

(Above) A Cox Competition-I motor part number 4000.  Note the gray lead wires and wide solder tab (where the lead wire is attached).

 

Next, a Cox TT-X100, part number 4012:

 

 

Note the red and blue lead wires and wide solder tab.

 

Now, my (ebay) photo of an (alleged) French FT-16 with a black endbell:

 

 

Note the red and blue lead wires and wide solder tab.

 

Cox is the only American name brand I know about that sold Mabuchi FT-16 motors with black endbells.  The "fly in the ointment" is that these motors had plated cans (chrome or nickel), whereas your example has what appears to be a gold painted can (repainted white), which would of course suggest Russkit.  Russkit never, that I've ever seen or heard of, sold FT-16 (Russkit 22) motors with black endbells.

 

Is it possible that French sourced these parts (gold painted can and black endbell) separately either directly from Mabuchi or through a third party?  Yep, here's a photo of a gold painted FT-16 can (suggesting originally made for Russkit) in a Tradeship package:

 

 

Tradeship also marketed other cans, including the rare and sought-after Igarashi/Pactra X-99 five slot can:

 

 

Maybe Tradeship marketed the leftover Mabuchi gold painted cans and black FT-16 endbells directly to French?  I dunno...  It's a mystery...

 

 

[don.siegel]

Thanks Steve - that makes things much more interesting! 

 

Wouldn't seem very logical to source an endbell and can separately when it would probably be easier to get the whole motor, but maybe they got a deal? 

 

The other possibility is of course that somebody burned out his French endbell, and put on whatever he had handy, like from his obsolete Cox TTX100... 

 

Must admit I don't know where I got this - on some ebay lot lost in the mists of time. 

 

Don 

[Steve Okeefe]

And thus the mystery persists...

 

It would be easy to argue that end-of-run surplus parts can be had cheaper than new, and that French had the magnets and didn't need to buy them as part of a motor, but the arguments wouldn't have much merit because we don't know what actually happened.

 

That was 50 years ago and not well documented; do you think there might be anybody left that was actually there?

[Gator Bob]

Good stuff....

Investigative research into the history of our hobby.

 

Keep in mind there was a close business association between Tradeship and French. Products were co-branded with the French name and sold on Tradeship header cards.

 

The Gold cans being re-packaged by Tradeship might not be that big of a mystery.  

These hot motors were 'endbell cookers' and 'post melters', many must have come back under warranty and for paid repair service. That would leave left over cans and arms too.

Tradeship offered armature blanks on the co-branded packaging.  I can't put my hands on those right now for picture taking.

 

I don't have any insight on the black Cox endbells being used or Tradeship selling chrome Cox cans.

[havlicek]

 

 

Tradeship also marketed other cans, including the rare and sought-after Igarashi/Pactra X-99 five slot can:

 

I've got one of those somewhere and never used it because it wasn't one I was familiar with so i figured it was either:

1)rare and sought-after

2)rare because it wasn't sought after

 

-john

[Steve Okeefe]

John,

 

Touche!     I was being provincial...  An unfortunate occupational hazard.     

 

Around three years ago Rick Thigpen found a 1/32 car on ebay that had a French motor equipped with a black endbell.  The endbell had red and blue lead wires and wide solder lugs.  Check it out here.  Don, did Rick send you the chassis?

 

There is still no proof that they were an actual French product, but as we see more and more examples of black endbell French motors, every one equipped with first generation (FT-16) endbells, red and blue lead wires and wide solder lugs, the odds of this being just a co-inky-dink continue to drop...

[SlotStox#53]

Not relevant to the French side of things, but have seen Russkit cans with magnets marketed by a company called "Lesgo" ??

Anyone know of them? Have seen several Lesgo labeled bagged/carded "Russkit 23 can and magnets" on epay .

That rare X99 can looks sweet, would make a motor look fast just standing still

[Steve Okeefe]

Paul,

 

I've seen them too.

 

Don't know anything about Lesgo, but I would venture a guess it's just another generic re-packaging outfit.  As slot racing technology advanced in the mid 60s, there was a lot of "day-old bread" (so to speak) to dispose of - and it went a bargain-basement prices.

 

If only we knew then what we know now! 

[ravajack]

Well, it seems that no one remembers (or pretends to not remember?) that this French
"black endbell" issue was discussed quite extensively almost three years ago in this thread:

 

http://slotblog.net/...rench-motor-co/

 

Also with some pics from a period (1966) magazine: