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#1 IRRAź Retro Racing

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 09:37 AM

Please put your questions and comments in this thread.

Thank you.

IRRA® Board of Directors: Mike McMasters, Joe Neumeister, Tony Przybylowicz, Mike Swiss, Greg Wells





#2 GT40

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 12:52 PM

Overall, a good effort. Some questions:

Why is the maximum chassis width 3.125 while the maximum body width is 3.25?

Drilled hub rear tires are not allowed. I understand the intent of this is probably to eliminate the more exensive, higher performance tires. However, there are tires that have holes or slots primarily for realism, e.g. Pro-Track. Are these also disallowed?

Is narrowing of rear tires allowed?

Will there be a disparity in performance between the 4002B and the other motors?

Gluing the track by individual racers is prohibited. What about glue on the tires?

Lane selection for each main is by random draw. With no qualifying, does this also apply to how racers are placed in each main?

Will there be an incentive to move from the GT Flexi class to the scratchbuilt classes? If so, what?

What is the procedure for submitting bodies (or other items) for consideration as approved parts?
Steve Walker
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#3 team burrito

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 01:16 PM

Also WHY can't you rebuild your own Euro motor? Why do you have to use the refurbishing program? Most people can easily refresh their motors themselves.

And why are you allow Flexi front ends like the East Coast series? Are you just using the tongue portion or can you the whole front end including the wing tips?

And finally, isn't this just another spin-off of D3, although I do like the body list. As much as I hate to admit it, the original D3 rules are the ones we should all follow. Period.
Russ Toy (not Troy)
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#4 rdmac

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 01:45 PM

...And why are you allowing Flexi front ends like the East Coast series? Are you just using the tongue portion or can you use the whole front end including the wing tips?

(Copied from The Rules)
"Chassis Materials: Brass: sheet, rod, and tube; steel: wire, pin tubing, and commercial guide tongues are allowed. Steel tongues cut from center sections of Flexi chassis, such as Parma Flexi 2 or 3, JK Cheetahs, etc., may be used until January 1, 2009, but cannot be cut off any farther back than 3/8" (9.53mm) behind the front axle and are limited to a maximum 1" (25.4mm) width. No other materials are allowed. Chassis parts, such as pans, brackets, guide tongues, etc., that are made using EDM, laser, or water-cutting techniques are allowed only if they are individual commercially-available components or components of chassis kits (i.e. these techniques maynot be used in the private manufacture of one-off components). Materials such as printed circuit boards are not legal. A three-sided motor bracket must be used. The motor bracket must support the motor and extend to touch the rear axle tube. The axle tube does not need to travel through the motor bracket. The motor must be screwed to the motor bracket and it can also be soldered in. Floating pin tubes inside another tube are allowed."

Let The Games Begin... Again. :D :D :D
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#5 jimht

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 04:09 PM

These here Official International Guidelines sure do look much like Rules to me, they're even called Rules... :laugh2:
If I were paranoid I'd even think Larry & I were being selected out for special attention:

Materials such as printed circuit boards are not legal.

Or maybe it's just the Department of Redundancy that felt this sort of repetition was necessary:

Brass: sheet, rod, and tube; steel: wire, pin tubing, and commercial guide tongues are allowed.
No other materials are allowed.

Perhaps the Guidelines, er...Rules don't need to be so specific.
Most of us do understand the meaning of "no".

Jim Honeycutt

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#6 NJ Racer

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 04:13 PM

Don't the Brits use the metric system? :shok:
"Ya gotta be in it to win it"

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#7 Dominator

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 09:08 PM

I had asked this question in the East Coast Forum but have not received an answer yet so here it goes.

Can a rectangular brass tube be used for pin tubes instead of a square tube provided the movement of the pin tubes is in the same direction, or in place of, the pan movement provided the movement is either up and down or front to back?

Do the rear tires have to be covered by the body or can they be revealed provided the axle tube is not showing?
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#8 Lowrider

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 03:03 AM

Don't the Brits use the metric system?

We're versatile, Ray. You hum it and we'll play it.

Inches, feet, miles?
Take a guess why it's called the Imperial system (over here at least)?

Regards,
Steve-a-roonie Kempson

#9 Noose

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 07:42 AM

Don't the Brits use the metric system? :shok:

Ray is a jokester for sure. I know he saw that all the measurements included mm.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
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#10 Hworth08

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 12:20 PM

A couple of questions please.

When a 4002 or 4002B motor is sent to be refurbished, what services will be performed? Will endbell blue printing, as long as the seal is left intact, be allowed by the motor owner?

For the Flexi division, will the Cheetah 11 and new ProSlot FX frame be allowed? There seems to be discussion as to whether these frames are "true" Flexis without the plate under the motor.

Thank you.
Don Hollingsworth

#11 IRRAź Retro Racing

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 01:06 PM

Just wanted to point out that answers to some questions posted in this thread will be made after discussion among the IRRA board members.

Because of this process, there may be a delay in receiving responses to questions asked here. While "same day service" is the goal, there may be cases where responses will take a day or two to be posted.

IRRA® Board of Directors: Mike McMasters, Joe Neumeister, Tony Przybylowicz, Mike Swiss, Greg Wells


#12 Mike K

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 03:07 PM

I thought all of the "posters" on Slotblog had to use their real name rather than an alias??? How do we know who is answering these questions?? Is there favoritism within Slotblog to the IRRA??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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#13 TSR

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 03:08 PM

I just noticed that too and kindly ask the person to post his real name as everyone else as per the forum rules, thank you.

Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#14 NJ Racer

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 04:03 PM

Reads like Noose to me. :lol:

Incidentally who fell asleep at the IRRA control panel last night if you know what I mean. :bomb:
"Ya gotta be in it to win it"

Ray Carlisi

#15 Ron Hershman

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 04:22 PM

More like... who left the door unlocked and opened??? Did you enjoy your reading there? ;)

#16 NJ Racer

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 04:33 PM

I really didn't feel guilty checking it out. :D The door was open again at 1:00 AM EST so I did lose a little sleep. You had to be logged off to get in. Very well done but boring reading with no surprises.
"Ya gotta be in it to win it"

Ray Carlisi

#17 Cheater

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 04:37 PM

The problem with that private forum being visible was due to my screwing up the permission matrices when I rearranged the board a few days ago. So if you want to blame someone, I'm your guy. And yes, it was the guest user group that got in the unlocked door.

Hope you enjoyed your reading, and recognized that the folks involved in the IRRA are working together as a team.

Incidently, the IRRA Retro Racing ID is being used by multiple people, Noose and I being among the group. The posts here are being made on behalf on an entity, the IRRA, and do not represent the views of any one person, but rather the answers agreed-upon by the IRRA Board as a group.

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#18 NJ Racer

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 04:41 PM

So do I become a member of the committee, or do I get whacked. :wacko:
"Ya gotta be in it to win it"

Ray Carlisi

#19 Cheater

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 04:43 PM

We'll have to take it up in executive session, but you might want make sure your will is up to date, just to be sure... ;)

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#20 gascarnut

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 04:45 PM

So do I become a member of the committee, or do I get whacked. :wacko:

Ray,

C'mon - you're from "Joysey" and you can't work that one out for yourself?? ;) :D

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#21 tonyp

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 04:56 PM

Ray,

I always considered you whacked, or is that wacko?

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#22 Ron Hershman

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 05:02 PM

So do I become a member of the committee, or do I get whacked. :wacko:

The "books" aren't open right now. We will have a "sit down" about the matter. :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

#23 kkjva

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 05:03 PM

Should I be looking over my shoulder, too! :laugh2:

Ray, I've got your back, my wife still has family in Sicily! :big_boss:

Be Good,

kkjva

#24 TSR

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 05:08 PM

Greg explained to me that several persons were actually using this forum to respond to questions, so I guess it is pretty useless to have a single signature and we can make an exception because of this. Greg will come up with the best solution, which IMO should be simply that the responder sign his own response individually for each message. Would this be OK with everyone?

Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#25 slotbaker

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 05:28 PM

Probably OK, but it would be nice to know who posted the response.

Maybe they could add their name at the end of the post.
:huh:

Steve King


#26 Cheater

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 06:40 PM

Gentlemen,

The IRRA decided to post in this manner to emphasize that the responses were those of the IRRA, not the individual poster.

And it should not be necessary for me to point to examples on this very board where the messenger has been pilloried for reporting decisions not personally made.

How about this: the posts could be signed as "posted by Joe Neumeister for the IRRA Board"?

Will that "signature" unwrinkle the undershorts of everyone concerned?

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#27 Noose

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 06:54 PM

For those that got to see the inner workings I hope you saw that a lot of work has gone into this by a number of people.

Rules are rules and if the ownership says we have to have a name associated with a response to a question then Greg's suggestion is OK by me. Let it be known, though, that every answer is one that IS reviewed and agreed upon before it is posted.

If the community here is not comfortable with the IRRA ID then we can go with Greg's suggestion.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#28 Noose

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 06:56 PM

Reads like Noose to me. :lol:

Nope... not all me.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#29 TSR

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 07:03 PM

Greg will come up with the best solution, which IMO should be simply that the responder sign his own response individually for each message. Would this be OK with everyone?

Probably OK, but it would be nice to know who posted the response.
Maybe they could add their name at the end of the post.

OK, Steve, I am going to go shoot myself now. :blink:

Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#30 Tex

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 09:12 PM

Dokk, as Eric Burdon sang "Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood".
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#31 slotbaker

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 09:31 PM

OK, Steve, I am going to go shoot myself now. :blink:

Nah, don't.
:laugh2: I stuffed that one, didn't I?

I read the first sentence OK, but the second one didn't sink in to my thick head.
:fool:

Steve King


#32 Hworth08

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 01:02 PM

Gentlemen,

I didn't see bronze, silicone bronze, steel gas welding rod, or stainless steel gas welding rod listed as a frame building material. Are these materials to be considered as not legal?

Thank you.
Don Hollingsworth

#33 Larry LS

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 01:50 PM

Okay, the IRRA has a list of contributors and supporters plus a board of directors.

The D3 had or still has a gang of four (not meant derogatorily).

How many of the above IRRA group :big_boss: actually vote or decide on the rules and decide on the replies being made to the questions?

Also will there be membership fees besides entry fees required at events or to be a yearly member of the IRRA?:)
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#34 Don Weaver

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 03:38 PM

IRRA Committee,

Good job on the new rules. Will you be publishing info on the IRRA Motor Refurbishing Program in the near future? Please keep in mind those of us who live out in the boondocks and can't attend all of the races in our region... we still have a need to have our motors re-worked even though we may have only run them at our local raceway. The EC Retro rules are a disadvantage to racers like me since you have to turn your motor in at a race and them get them back at the next race.

Thanks for all your efforts in getting this thing going!

Don Weaver

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#35 threegz

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 04:31 PM

Question: How many IRRA members does it take to screw in a light bulb? :D

Just kidding...
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#36 Cheater

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 04:57 PM

Wrong question...

It should be "How many IRRA members does it take to screw in a Falcon 7?"

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#37 Ron Hershman

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 09:21 PM

Two... one to tighten the vise and one to swing the hammer. :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

#38 JimR

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 08:08 AM

"... a chassis may have transverse hinges (examples: Iso-fulcrum hinges and plumber hinges) ... "
Is that iso-fulcrum as in the old Cox LaCucaracha?
Jim Regan

#39 Hworth08

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 10:15 AM

As a follow-up to Jim Regan's question, how "loose" can a hinge be? As an example, can .047" or .055" be used in 3/32" tubing?

Thank you.
Don Hollingsworth

#40 Rick

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 09:05 PM

Although I have removed myself from slot car politics on this board or any other. I think most of the questions asked can be answered with another question: Was it used, devised, in practice prior to 1970?...
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#41 TSR

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 10:03 PM

Rick, thank you for that. It is exactly what we preach on the other side of the divide.

Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#42 MSwiss

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 10:18 PM

This looks like a real pre-1970 special: ;)

Posted Image

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#43 Tex

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 10:50 PM

Children! CHILDREN! Settle down now. Turn your English books to page 214. Janet, will you begin for us? Thank you.
Richard L. Hofer

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#44 Ron Hershman

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 10:52 PM

Hey Jane... see Spot run. :lol: :lol: :lol:

#45 TSR

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 11:15 PM

I was thinking more in the lines of this:

Posted Image

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#46 MSwiss

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 11:43 PM

Rick, thank you for that. It is exactly what we preach on the other side of the divide.

PdL,

Thank you for changing "we" to "I".

So what part of the car I referred to was used, devised, or in practice pre-1970? The round tires or the copper braid?

If you want to preach out of both sides of your mouth, kindly do it on the non-IRRA forum.

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#47 Rick

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Posted 24 November 2007 - 12:07 AM

That thing is the neatest FCR car to date, LMAO. Why it is permitted to run on any of the D3 races is beyond me.

And, Mike, that is exactly the example I have used a few times about SPIRIT of the times...
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Posted Image

#48 TSR

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Posted 24 November 2007 - 11:14 AM

Mike,

With all due respect, the car I have shown reflects pretty much exactly the technology of a late-1967 pro inline car:
-center section made of multiple brass rails
-three-side inline motor bracket
-hinged square side pans
-solid front axle
-replica period body with replica separate cockpit

What is not "period-correct":

-no drop arm
-modern motor
-smaller axles
-modern guide
-modern tires but with period-correct sizes

The above except for the drop arm is simply due to unavailability of period components.

D3 was never supposed to be "vintage" racing, simply "nostalgia" racing with a limit placed on technology but less limits placed on chassis design as these matters can be so subjective.

So from which side of my mouth am I talking, because it looks to me that both sides have been saying the same thing all along.

Philippe de Lespinay
 
"We are the D..., uh, the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile"


#49 Cheater

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Posted 24 November 2007 - 11:38 AM

PdL,

When Mike asked "So what part of the car I referred to was used, devised, or in practice pre-1970?" he was referring to the chassis picture he posted in post 47, not the pic you posted.

Rick, the problem with using "Was it used, devised, in practice prior to 1970?" as a hard standard is that it isn't a standard at all. Maybe it could be called a guideline or a timeframe, but that test doesn't define anything in a clear and unequivocal manner.

Gentlemen, the purpose of this forum is to address questions regarding the IRRA rules. If you want to debate retro in general, or argue retro-racing in philosophical terms, please start a new topic and take the arguments there.

Further off-topic posts in this thread will either be moved or deleted.

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#50 TSR

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Posted 24 November 2007 - 11:46 AM

Well, so the chassis Mike shows is deemed illegal per IRRA rules or is it not?

I can dig a couple of 1968-built chassis from the museum that look pretty close to it, save for the Russkit bracket and the 1/8" axles... :blink:

Philippe de Lespinay
 
"We are the D..., uh, the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile"






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