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"Steve's Racers" refurb


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#1 Pablo

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 07:02 PM

Finished July 2014:

post-91-0-04995100-1404236557.jpg

 

post-91-0-59764600-1404236577.jpg

 

Here's where it all started:

IMG_1123.JPG

 

Peter Horvath owns this 70's era car that needed some TLC.  I was honored to be chosen as the man for the job :)  It has a Havlicek motor in it, so it needs a strong chassis. The solder joints connecting the motor box on both sides broke in a wallshot. The car has some issues like bent/stressed wires, misalignment, wrong parts, old tires, etc. I'm going to fix them all.

IMG_1095.JPG

 

I'm not 100% sure, but I think this is an endbell drive chassis with an (incorrect) can drive motor. It's obviously not centered correctly with regards to chassis weight and motor centerline when canted sideways.  I could use some coaching here :o  The H Mura motor is obviously designed for a can drive chassis because it has the notched endbell where the straight rails go, and the buss bars are orientated for can drive configuration.  The arm is timed for counterclockwise rotation at can end (backwards).  Looks to me this may be the wrong motor for this chassis, or vice-versa.  Help, Mr. Wizard....... :D  The layout of the axle tube, rails, etc. seem wrong with regards to the motor.  Am I right, or wrong ?

IMG_1112.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#2 Bill from NH

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 08:28 PM

Most of the brass/wire chassis I've seen were can drive when the spur was on the left, endbell drive with the spur on the right. But I've also seen a few that were endbell drive with the spur on the left & can drive with the spur on the right. In my mind, any of the four ways would be correct. To see what arrangement this chassis was originally built for, you would have to talk with Steve, whoever he is. I don't have the history of this particular motor, but it appears to be built can drive on the right side of a chassis. I'd keep the motor in this arrangement, but built a better motor box for it. Also, the mainrails don't appear to have enough side lap with the half rails. One or the other should be longer. Are the brass parts on this chassis all .040" brass?


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#3 slotcarone

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:51 PM

Pablo I would first check the rotation of the motor. It can't be used end bell drive with that endbell. That chassis really needs two rails on the side without the bracket running back to the axle tube or it will flex too much. Can't say I have ever seen one like that--a unique design!!


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#4 Pablo

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:06 AM

Thanks guys, I know what I need to do now.

Mike, like I said, the motor is CCW at can end, I concur this motor cannot be EBD, and I will make new rails.

"I'd keep the motor in this arrangement, but built a better motor box for it. Also, the mainrails don't appear to have enough side lap with the half rails. One or the other should be longer. Are the brass parts on this chassis all .040" brass?"

Bill, I'm going to do exactly what you recommended here, I agree, it stays can drive, and re-do rails and motor box.  The brass is all .050   Rear axle tube needs to go to the left a ways also.  Body Truescale Porsche 908C, chassis width 3 1/8, WB 3 7/8, GL 13/16, rear wheels 7/8 blue rubber, fronts 3/4 EJ's rubber, pinion 48P 7T Sonic steel, spur Cox 48P 34T.


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#5 Peter Horvath

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:41 AM

Go man go!


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#6 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 02:10 PM

Pablo,

 

That is one strange chassis design you have there.  The last time I saw that sort of motor bracket / axle tube combination was on this:

 

Cukras Mid 1968.jpg

 

As you can see it was also right side can drive.  Note there are two left side motorbox rails, and they are stacked vertically.  Lots of experimenting going on in mid 1968.  :crazy:

 

Normally in an anglewinder the motor bracket is spaced outboard of the end of the axle tube, making room for the gear hub, like this:

 

Emott Late 1968.jpg

 

...but on the 1968 Cukras chassis and also your chassis it is flush, which means the whole motorbox should be shifted to the other side (opposite the gear) to provide room, but on your chassis it doesn't seem to be.

 

Out of curiousity, how wide is the chassis, how wide is the drop arm and what size axles is the chassis built for?



#7 Pablo

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 03:33 PM

Thanks for all that info and the 2 pics, Steve, that helps a lot for motor box positioning.  I'm pretty sure I know exactly what I need to do.  Like you said, the motor and tubes both need to go left.  Yes, indeed, this is a strange chassis, but I really like a lot of the design features, it's a full plumber with tilting pans, set up for a can drive backwards rotating armature, too wide to be legal for max 3 1/8 width, and too narrow for max width of 3 1/4, mismatched main rail sizes (.047 and .065), bastard size pans and drop arm (.050), super wide drop arm (1 3/4 plus about .032), little tiny tongue, and the main rails stop in front of the motor bracket.  Then the motor bracket/box is soldered on like an afterthought. :o  That is where it broke when it took a wallshot.

Wow, that Cukras looks like one strong battlewagon ! Lots of experimenting still going on today in retro.  Just like in 1968, many new design features are merely fads to sell chassis, while others withstand the test of time and become standard scratchbuilding tricks. :)

Steve, axles are 1/8 and the other questions I answered above. :D  Thanks again, and, BTW, you're not "Steve", are you ? :shok:  :laugh2:

All wires are tinned and brass tubes cut.

IMG_1142.JPG

 

 


 


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#8 Pablo

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 07:13 PM

What kind of orange colored flag is this ?  It's .035 thickness "cut down" with three holes in front of the shaft.  Doesn't really matter, because the shaft is so bent, it's not useable.  This car needs a 1970-ish Jet Flag and a big Duffy weight to secure it. Since the drop arm has so much open air space, the car needs as much weight up front as it can get.  Thanks, Duffy :friends:

IMG_1145.JPG


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#9 Dave Fiedler

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:11 PM

Looks like a Red Fox to me.


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#10 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:11 PM

Yes, I'm Steve, but not "that" Steve.  :laugh2:

 

I've been trying to ferret out the vintage of your chassis... it may well not be 70s era, but 1969!

 

The plumber hinge tube mounted on the front of the main rails (not the drop arm), the rear facing front axle uprights and the 1/8" axles all suggest early 1969.

 

3-1/8" wide chassis became "defacto acceptable", although not strictly "dejure" (by the rules) at the beginning of 1969.  Bodies are limited to 3-1/4" but the 1969 National Championship rules don't say anything about chassis width.

 

The mismatched main rail sizes became a common feature after the "flat piano wire" craze ran its course, but that was later in 1969.

 

The notched endbell made its appearance mostly as a result of the use of can drive motors in steel center sections, which were not made to "go around" the endbell like a wire center section - again later in 1969.

 

I'm guessing the motorbox looks like an afterthought... because it is.  Or rather, it's not the original motorbox, but something grafted on later.  In fact, the whole chassis seems to be something of a science experiment!  :wacko2:

 

That tiny little guide tongue, even on a .050" thick drop arm, is downright scary...

 

Kibbitz alert!  If you install an .032" x 1/4" strap across the center section right behind the pan hanger cross rail, it will not only be "period korrekt", but will strengthen both main rail / half rail joints and help prevent another wall-shot blowout... :D

 

Looks like a fun project!


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#11 Peter Horvath

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:33 PM

I'm glad I sent this to you, Pablo. Not only do I get a completely sorted out chassis, but I get the added bonus of a history lesson, which I love...

 

And as Sano Dave said, the flag is indeed a Red Fox. In the spirit of "run what you brung", I tend to "use what I've got" when I'm bringing back a chassis from the dead(prior to killing it again with a wall shot...)...


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#12 Pablo

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:08 PM

Dave, always glad to have you in the neighborhood ! :good:

Steve, I will digest and comment on post # 10 tomorrow.

Peter, glad you like the info.  Red Fox flags are good, but this one is too bent to be useable. I appreciate your honesty, and your ability to tolerate my "builder" personality.  As far as "use what ya got/run what ya brung", believe me, everybody does it. :)

 

 


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#13 Pablo

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 12:33 PM

Steve, I read and understood your post # 10.  Thanks for the heads up on the little tongue (maybe I can strengthen it with a doubler or something), and the brass strip across the rails in back (Bill suggested that also).  :)

Good to go, all jigged up and guide lead set.  Got lucky, my Mura jig motor is the same dimensions as the H motor.  Also found some JK wheels that are same widths as the vintage pieces. That is all for this week, gotta go make some money......

IMG_1148.JPG

 


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#14 bluecars

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 03:38 PM

MONEY! We don't need no stinking money! OH YA! I guess we do. Never mind. LOL!!! 


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#15 Pablo

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 07:33 AM

Thanks for the blue donuts, Rick :good:  Perfect .875

IMG_1182.JPG


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#16 dc-65x

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 10:31 AM

You're welcome Pablo. :victory:

 

They look great! :good:


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#17 Pablo

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 11:25 AM

Thanks :)

Drop arm cleaned up nice.  A slight tweak or two and now she is flat.

IMG_1190.JPG

 

Tongue passes the level fore / aft and left to right test perfectly.

IMG_1193.JPG

 

Very strange discovery; the tongue is not raised enough to use a standard thickness flag. It's going to need a cut-down.

Did they even make cut-down flags in 1970 ? Anybody have one to spare ?  I may just have to use a modern one.

IMG_1196.JPG

 

 


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#18 Bill from NH

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 11:42 AM

Pablo, that guide tongue appears to be someone's handmade & hand-bent unit, it doesn't look to be a production item. I can't recall seeing a cut-down guide in 70's or early 80's. We ran regular Jet guides, but I don't recall when the first cut-downs became available. Maybe this car was built newer? 


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#19 Pablo

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 12:48 PM

Maybe.  Like Steve O. commented, it is all a little confused, but will be fine in the end.  A new Parma cut-down flag with thin (.024") Prime braid works perfectly. 

IMG_1199.JPG

 


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#20 Pablo

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 07:32 PM

Tongue doubler started out as a Cobra, same thickness as the drop arm.  Trimmed and floated it on top of the existing tongue with the minitorch.  The doubler cannot go very far back, as it would interfere with the plumbing. You can't see it in the photos, but there is a very small rectangle of 15 thou brass under the extreme rear of the doubler, which makes a solid connection to the drop arm as far back as I could possibly go.

IMG_1204.JPG

IMG_1211.JPG

IMG_1200.JPG

 

My brother-in-law, Bunky was here today visiting from North Carolina :laugh2:  and it caused a ruckus, as usual  :crazy: 

Bunky.jpg

 


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#21 Bill from NH

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 09:05 PM

If another one of Steve's racers ever shows up, you got your work cut out for you. :)


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#22 Pablo

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 09:14 PM

I'd farm the labor out to Bunky, and charge mechanic's wages, $45 / hour :laugh2:


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#23 SlotStox#53

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 10:25 PM

So far so good Pablo :good: Always fun watching your builds whether from scratch/imagination or bringing back from a wall shot type rebuilds :D 

 

Very neat job on the tongue doubler :)



#24 Pablo

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 10:39 PM

Thanks Paul, coming from you, that means a lot. :) :good:


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#25 Pablo

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 06:29 PM

Tongue is faced on both sides, of course:

IMG_1224.JPG

 

When I placed all the parts n pieces on the jig to see if 3 1/8" width would be possible, some problems became clear.

-The drop arm had more meat on one side than the other, and once I trimmed it, the side fingers needed to be trimmed to make them equal. 

-One bat pan was much wider than the other.

All this trimming worked in my favor, because then everything lined up right for 3 1/8 as planned.

All brass parts were cleaned and flattened.  It's starting to look like a slot car chassis:

IMG_1228.JPG


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