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IRRA® news flash - new Can-Am Plus class!


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#51 JohnnySlotcar

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 10:33 AM

Yoda has spoken!


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#52 John Streisguth

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 10:42 AM

If this class was anglewinders, it would have just been Retro-Pro "lite". 


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#53 MantaRay

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 12:51 PM

IRRA® already has an anglewinder class that runs once or twice a year; it never has really caught on.

What Tony said..............


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#54 Noose

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:01 PM

The IRRA® Anglewinder class has never been run to my knowledge.  What has been run is Retro Pro which is a SCRRA class.  It has been run at the Fall Brawl and most recently RetroPalooza. It will be run at the Flat Track Nats at HVR under the same SCRRA rules.


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#55 Tim Neja

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 04:08 PM

It would have been nice to make them anglewinders as someo one else said---it was the NEXT generation--IN the 60's of handling improvement!  And -- as you've structured the rules--will allow for LOT'S of chassis variations that CAME with the anglewinder style of cars as well.  SO--Retro Lite---or Can Am plus--it's all a small change that may have brought a lot more builders back to the game. And with anglewinders---the NO tire diameter rule would make for a lot more variation--because that was another inovation that allowed for smaller tire diameters.  With in-line - you are somewhat limited.  Either way-- as long as you're enjoying retro racing--it's all good!! :)


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#56 Noose

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 05:27 PM

Tim no one has built any anglewinders out here except for the few that have been run in Retro Pro.

This was an imaginative thing and not something based on what really happened. It still affords the use of low cost motors and a way to use old tires.


So let's just see how it goes.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
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#57 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 06:25 PM

 If not the first I was among the first to mention Anglewinders in this topic. I had no intention of causing discontent. The new class is what it is and should make for some interesting creativity. Sounds good to me.

 On the subject of anglewinders we have a set of rules for the class now, but it has never been raced, as I understand it. There seems to be at least some interest in the configuration, but no cars have been built. So build some to the existing rules and see if you can get enough together to race locally at your home tracks. If we have enough cars they will run a race for them. If there is some activity in the class it could take over the new class at some point in time or not.

 I have not studied the rules so am not sure about motor brackets and such but I think I saw where Mike Swiss had a CL anglewinder motor bracket in the parts counter.

So build some cars and get a race started at your track. I am going to build one just to see how it goes.


Eddie Fleming

#58 John Streisguth

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 06:52 PM

I know one of the groups in Ohio had the Retro Pro class going pretty well for a while, not sure if they're still doing it.  Around here, there was a good entry level at the Fall Brawl last year but no so much at the Retropalooza two months ago.  I just can't justify paying to have what I consider "grenade" motors built for me, because it seems with the X-12 arm they are on the limit of what is feasible with these motors.

 

I think the concept of this class is very interesting. Except for the anglewinder factor, it addressed many of the gripes about limitations on building. Who knows if it will catch on, but I'm going to give it a shot.  :D


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#59 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 07:00 PM

I am not talking Retro Pro, just Retro Anglewinder.


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#60 Tim Neja

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 07:22 PM

We've been running retro pro out here at  BPR for several years and have NOT had a lot of motor failures!  The X-12 arms seem to work very well.  But this new class would not need retro pro power---just would be FUN to see more anglewinders being built as they DO handle better.  We still race our anglewinder coupes out here -- we did this past race--and everyone agrees their a lot of fun. But there ARE fewer people running them. Can Am is still the biggest class.


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#61 BillyBob

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 09:28 PM

If you are trying to find a place to use the Pro Slot PD-FK motor, why not use the present Can-Am chassis. No telling what the notiable builders are going to ask for one if these with all the bells and whistles on them. Then top it off with an older body style that Retro racing was meant it be. :unsure:   :scratch_one-s_head:  :unknw:
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#62 John Streisguth

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 09:37 PM

Somebody already went that route...


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#63 Mike Patterson

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 09:55 PM

I think the whole idea of the class is DUMB!!! When the IRRA® started there were THREE classes, Can-Am, F1, and GT Coupe, and as far as I'm concerned, GT Coupe is a redundancy, just run CA chassis with Coupe bodies, like BITD. Now there's what, seven, eight classes? Do we really need a niche for everybody's little piece of the Retro market, such as it is?
 
When is the F1 Super Ultra Pro Plus class going to be finalized? That IS what's next, isn't it?
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#64 Samiam

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 10:11 PM

Cobalt F1. :laugh2:
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#65 Jay Guard

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 11:38 PM

Rather than add a new class I feel it would have made a lot more sense to just make it the new Can-Am.  Back in the day (pre 1970) the idea of Can-Am was pretty much unlimited. The present Can-Am bodies are basically unlimited (as far as pre 1970 aero is concerned) so why not do the same with the inline chassis and max it out, too? It might even make sense to send old Pro Slot Puppy Dogs (anybody got any of those?) to Pro Slot and have a new Chinese arm installed and the motor triple sealed for something less than the cost of a new ProSlot FK.
 
BTW... If the ridiculous "cast in stone" 110 gram weight limit in GT Coupe was changed to 100 gram there would be a perfect place to use all of the present Can-Am chassis. Bottom line would be no "outdated" hardware and no proliferation of classes.


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#66 Jason Holmes

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 12:18 AM

Joe,
 
Will this class be add to the Brawl in Nov?
 
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#67 Noose

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 06:35 AM

Jason, that is going to be up to Mike Iles but I hope so! Maybe after the RetroPro if they are running that, too.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
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#68 The Number of

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 10:25 AM

Any update on the Parma body numbers?


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#69 Cap Henry

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 10:55 AM

I'm glad the new class is inline. I've built one anglewinder, and that was enough LOL. Inlines are much easier to build, and if you choose to you can still use the current brackets with some trimming. There was/is no need to change the current Can-Am class, its already the most popular class.
 
Odds are the new class will only run at a few places, which is fine. If you think it's too much work or too expensive, no one is forcing you to race it!
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#70 tonyp

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 10:57 AM

I think anglewinders are much easier to build myself. I never understood why people think they are harder to build. I just hate running them and soldering in the motor, car always looks like crap...
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#71 Noose

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 10:59 AM

Any update on the Parma body numbers?

 

Bill, Steve Koepp contacted me and will be sending me the updated numbers.  They changes them from the ones in SCRRA which are the ones I used.  As soon as he does, I will post a revised body list. 


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#72 MSwiss

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 11:59 AM

I think anglewinders are much easier to build myself. I never understood why people think they are harder to build. I just hate running them and soldering in the motor, car always looks like crap..

I think it's because the chassis set-up isn't really symmetrical.

You have a gear on one side, but not the other, a rail that needs to be bent on one side, but not the other, and at a pretty precise angle,motor/axle clearance issues, etc.

All stuff you don't to worry about with an inline.

 

Im glad the new class is inline. I've built one anglewinder, and that was enough LOL. Inlines are much easier to build, and if you choose to you can still use the current brackets

Cap,

I saw you were part of the RetroPro A Main at Fall Brawl III that had three DNFs.

Also in the 3 mains, 5 racers retired with 60 laps or less.

What causes all the attrition and why do guys give up so easily?

I would think guys, even if they can't win, would want to get back out on the track for the hi-speed fun.

Are the problems 72P gear related or just speed related?

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#73 tonyp

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 12:20 PM

Matt Bruce told me he had gear issues when he was at Checkpoint Cup and barely made it to the end and lost a gear at the RetroPalooza.

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#74 MSwiss

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 12:28 PM

Tony,

I wonder if the P/S can has too much flex.

If I made a serious attempt in that class, I would probably solder the motor in at at least three places.
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#75 JimF

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 12:31 PM

Here's two cents from a program that has run anglewinders five-eight times a year for six years...

I think that IRRA® is doing the right thing in keeping them inlines. We rarely get new blood in this class while guys are in and out of the other classes all the time. While we have a fair number of chassis out there, I've built most of them and Russ has built most of the rest. Only a few new ones show up and rarely at that.
 
Building:
  • Not so hard maybe if you are Tony or maybe even me, but the back half setup is not the easiest thing.
  • Getting the motor centered and the axle centered when laying out the rails and tubes takes some knowhow.
  • No kits available!!! This is a big deal if your programs are generally 60-70% kit builds.
  • Admittedly, the small package of the PS motors is easier than other FKs.
Attrition:
  • Generally related to gears with X12 and Big Dogs. You need ~ 5:1 or so.
  • Also keeping motor in place not that easy for inexperienced folks.
  • Motors generally last a long time so that's a non-issue. I'm guessing same for the PS/FK
  • Gears wouldn't be that big a deal with the package that IRRA® is proposing.
Bennies for the inline proposal:
  • Kits!!! most inline kits can be adapted to exotic technology easily.
  • Heck, drop in a new motor and slap on the HD body and you are racing.
  • Existing cars could easily be converted to smaller tires.
  • Converting something existing would get you into the game at a pretty high level.
  • Yes... eventually, the pro builders will come up with some exotic stuff but probably not a huge difference from a converted exisitng car.
Speed:
  • Big dogs and especially the X12 are awfully fast... not everybody is going to drive them well.
  • With HD bodies, an inline can easily run in the mid-90s or even maybe lighter on high speed tracks.
  • With a 90 gram car, a HD body, and a motor that's faster anyway you're going to be 3-5 tenths faster anyway... IMO... that's fast enough.
Just two cents worth.
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