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Can-Am "Plus" West Coast discussion


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#1 Mark Wampler

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:30 PM

First, disclaimer here.  My views may not necessarily reflect those of founder and board members of SCRRA.  I race BP when I’m not racing locally.  Friendly discussion here.  Drama free, so here it goes F W I W

 

SCM’s can be found at most tracks.  Now everyone has the opportunity to be an SCM.  The grabber is that not only can you go faster, but at NO ADDITIONAL cost.  It may even be cheaper with regards to the ‘no size limit’ rear tires.  Since I mount my own.  I like this idea of starting with 8.20’s for CanAm,  .790’s for F-1 and finally small as I want without skidding the bottom of the chassis.

 

You will recall that when the (then) D3 coupe class opened up that there was an ‘option’ to configure in anglewinder format.  I said right up front that it would not be long until AW’s would take over.  Let’s look closely at this class.  Right here and now,  there should be no AW ‘option’ introduced now, or ever unless history will repeat itself again.

SO… if its going to be inline, then that is a set in concrete article.

 

Second, there should not be a concern that the original (D3) SCRRA CanAm class will fade away, because,  the flat track is still the best home for CanAm and F-1 cars in their present class function.  The best skill drivers will still be attracted to Flat Track racing with what they already have.  No need to fix anything there.

 

The Plus class should only be a King Track class and thus fast guys will go faster and the slower guys will have a chance go faster as well.  More slammed, smaller, lighter, faster.

 

From a casual observation of what the east coast org is proposing should fit in will with historic BP style of chassis construction with the exception of motor choice.  There’s no need to hash that age old battle UNLESS someone from the Retro Pro camp can have sway with a standard powered PS  inline running on standard CanAm/F-1 track power.  For the King Track, that should pertain to testing and opinion.  I was recently sold on the Retro Hawk.  Not because of what I’ve read about it but because  testing on my own.  Maybe its time to break out of the box and seriously consider the RH.  I don’t think that an X-12  Powered motor belongs with this class, IMO.  You RP guys are going plenty fast enough !

 

I have to conclude that this is a good thing for die hard King Track racers and may be a second chance for flat track only  racers to repent and give the Gerding King Track another chance.

 

=M=

 

 


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-Mark




#2 Tim Neja

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:35 PM

What's an SCM????


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#3 Mark Wampler

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:39 PM

What's an SCM????

Thought everyone knew that.  Old School slang  term  Speed Crazed Moron(s)  Not limited to any particular class but may have originally been more associated with Wing Racing in its early stages.


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#4 Samiam

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:46 PM

Slot Car Master?

 

Oh......Yeah,those guys.


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#5 Tim Neja

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:48 PM

Well I'd be a LOT more interested in a new anglewinder class!! Every time we run the coupes--people say--" they LOVE the way they handle"!!! So having another class to build them for may be good!

 

Take these same rules and apply them to a NEW class w/ anglewinder builds as the base!! Any tire size for the rear--O-ring fronts - etc--Can Am style bodies--SAME motors -- we'll find out if the AW's actually will be faster than the inline cars when there is not a lot of horsepower to work with!! I think the flat track would show more--but maybe it would make a difference on a KIng track too?? I think that would be more fun to work with than ANOTHER inline car class.  We already have those sorted out and their doing great!! 


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#6 Mark Wampler

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:49 PM

Slot Car Master?

Or Slot car Moron.   The way intrigue happens on SB.  A new thread survey should open up and vote on the most meaningful interpretation of what "SCM" stands for.  You can start it...


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#7 Mark Wampler

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:57 PM

Tim, I think an excellent case can be stated by the fact that there is already a ton of support hardware for inlines already.  Secondly,  most peeps don't like building anglewinders.  We want to encourage more builder/racer types to emerge and not just  those who only buy  expensive chassis from the builders.   Thirdly, there are many instances where inline chassis parts can interchange back and forth between Plus and Standard CanAm's.  I already have quick Change 'o Matic pans I can switch out to use in both King and Flat track setups.  This would be the easiest class to morph into,  IMO.


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#8 Tim Neja

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:05 PM

Any of those pan parts may no longer "interchange" when you start building totally different designed cars.  All other parts are going to interchange anyway--axle/tires/wheels/motors/ etc etc etc.  And building anglewinders is easier than building inlines.  The ONLY difference is a motor bracket--and on my anglewinder Coupe car---I didn't use one!!! So it's even cheaper to build an anglewinder as it only needs an axle tube--no bracket works fine! :) :)

But if you're so fired up about the class---build some and see what happens?  Maybe you can get it started at Foster's?  Go for it---and promote a race for them.  That's what it will take to get more class's goiong!!
:)


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#9 Mark Wampler

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:16 PM

I'll take that as an invitation and yes I'm wearing my thinking cap already.  I know when you buy individual chassis parts, the bill goes up.  Not everyone is into 100% building which includes the bracket, head pan, side pans and guide tongue.  This class wouldn't really be considered an entry level class at all.  More for those die hard King Track CanAm racers that want the "Plus"

 

From what I understand a 3 sided bracket may not be required in this class.  If you don't want a bracket, you're not required to have one.  Centerline hinges are still being discussed.  There's plenty of room for pre-planning.

 

Here's a counter challenge Tim.  Build a 'Plus" style coupe and maybe it will catch on. :)


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#10 bbr

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:46 PM

i've started a design that will run .710 rear tires


Mike Low
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#11 Mark Wampler

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:49 PM

Might want to  consider turning your hypoid bracket upside down :shok:


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#12 Jason Holmes

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:51 PM

Mark

 

On our King with the low power we run on those PS FK's are not as fast as the R/H Duran and myself have tried them sound so sweet and very smooth but need more power 13.7



#13 Mark Wampler

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:56 PM

I think we all know that the RH is a very durable motor, BUT for the sake of economy on motor life,  don't you think a low 13v would be at better fit?   We'd still be looking at mid - upper 3 lap times?


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#14 Jason Holmes

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:03 PM

think not maybe 4.05 4.10 at best motors are great but need more juice to go at 13.7 you would be under 4 maybe 3.85 and remember these are not to be rebuilt so 6 races maybe 



#15 Mark Wampler

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:13 PM

You fast guys are already doing that with big tires and pre-70's bodies.  With RP bodies, now you can build those 70 gr cars and stay on the track  like RP cars.  I think more like 3.7's - 8's.  West coast can legalize .007 bodies ya know...


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#16 Tim Neja

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:32 PM

It makes no sense that King track cars would need MORE hinges and movement!! With the development the fastest cars have been taking--movements and hinges are EXTREMELY limited!! Going to more hinges and movement isn't going to make them faster.  The FLAT track is where these benefits may show some promise---not a super smooth King track!
FWIW
T


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#17 Tom Eatherly

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:32 PM

Well, I'm certainly not the person to be stepping on any toes here, but, this Can-Am Plus class is something that needs to be looked at back East and see where it goes, seeing as they have more racers and venues. Interesting maybe; but, personally, I'd rather see A/W Coupes on BPR's flat track every other month. This was discussed a bit at the SWC over lunch. Racers seem to like the damn things, we just need a few more. 

Mark. This Can-Am Plus idea is probably going to get some traction. This is a good thing. I just really like those A/W Coupes. And that flat track!


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#18 Mark Wampler

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:36 PM

 Tim, I think you have underscored your point.  On the ultra smooth King track, you don't need much if any  pan movement. SO... when builders get to building and testing,  those issues will be flushed out with how those elements work with the new Plus type chassis.  If .007 bodies get approved, you know lap times will drop even lower.

 

  Tom,  I've had a super lively discussion elsewhere on the subject already and I can tell you that the East Coast is very much involved, but some are centered on a motor discussion and not the overall class itself.  Remember when D3 made its splash in '06, the East Coast jumped all over it with their own version and style.  I'd say why take a 'wait and see' attitude when , we could have an exhibition race within a month or two?   I'm still in the Dark ages locally.  I still have the only Retro Hawk running at our track unless Steve got a shipment in this week.


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#19 Jason Holmes

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:44 PM

Mark

 

1 of the problems with a new class out here is time as in we take our time on Saturday and adding a class will put us out past 8pm on Sat and that will be a Problem for some that's why we cut it to 2 classes only per non major race weekends

 

so do you want to add a weekend 

 

Jason



#20 Mark Wampler

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:02 AM

Not at all.  For builders who  might want to build and test.  Maybe build some loaners so there could be an informal exhibition race IF there is enough interest.  Gather a drivers meeting next race and discuss.  Seems to me that this class is an answer from East Coasters who want to race BP style but take up a notch.  There is a vacuum on the East to do this evidently .  I think its interesting.  If AW's didn't arrive in '68,  inlines might very well look like this class years later, maybe today.


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#21 bbr

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:07 AM

Looking at the SWC race report, can am and F1 was won with 332 laps. These cars are different beasts, but their performance envelopes are the same.

It would be spicier to have races in which the performance between the classes were slower or faster.

So on a king track weekend at BPR, you can run the F1 and then alternate between the  can am and can am+ (if the can am+ catches on).


Mike Low
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#22 Mark Wampler

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:18 AM

Substitution works Mike.  WC Friday coupe race demonstrated that when another F-1 race was held instead of  Retro 32.   Racers are being heard , so a Plus race can happen.


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#23 bbr

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:24 AM

this is also an opportunity for Scott at PCH, if it doesn't fly at BPR and enough people wants to run can am+, Scott could run races


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Give me enough rope and I'll build a fast car... or hang myself?

#24 Mark Wampler

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:33 AM

Or us at Foster's but I'd have a ton a ground work to do and I'd be building a bunch of loaners. :heat:


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#25 Tim Neja

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:07 AM

Well no matter what---if it gets MORE people building and racing--it's ALL GOOD!! :)   This discussion on Facebook devolved into the same old "motor wars" again!!  I think we need to just stay the course with what the SCRRA is doing with motors.  We may evolve to the Retro Hawk as the motor of choice--and RP has the hand built X-12's that are BALLISTIC!! Enough is enough---sometimes it's MORE with LESS!! :) :)


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#26 Foamy

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:16 AM

Mark, trying to wrap my puny brain around this. . .

Is this be anglewinders, Can-Am bods, RH motors, any tires?


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#27 Jason Holmes

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:50 AM

Dennis

 

I think its inline .600 FRT's .225wide, any size rears retro pro bodies and PS FK motors

 

Jason



#28 Noose

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:51 AM

Foamy,

 

The class is inlines, PS FK motors, and same bodies as Retro Pro.  No weight limit, no rear diameter tire limit.  That's it in a nutshell.


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#29 Mark Wampler

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:54 AM

Mark, trying to wrap my puny brain around this. . .

Is this be anglewinders, Can-Am bods, RH motors, any tires?

 

Its based on this page:

http://www.irraslotr...rules-final.pdf


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#30 Mark Wampler

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:05 PM

I'd change rear clearance to .040.  F-1's use .790's @ .040 already.  :wink3:


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#31 Foamy

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 03:56 PM

Dennis

 

I think its inline .600 FRT's .225wide, any size rears retro pro bodies and PS FK motors

 

Jason

OK, thanx. hmmmmmm. . .


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preferably one with a really awesome musical number for no apparent reason."

 


#32 redbackspyder

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 04:43 PM

Mark, all this discussion, and we can not get guys to show up as it is for a 3 class day, because they were all too tired to run a Retro Pro race after Can Am on our usual Saturdays, and we all know there are at least 22 Retro Pro cars out there.....  This is all great for verbal discussion, but none of this is ever going to happen with the current crew of racers at BPR, In my humble opinion

 

Just like the Jail Door Class, and the 1 /32 class, there will be enthusiasm for about a couple of months, then the wind will blow to someone else's sails, and there will be no more racing of the class....

 

Why do you need a class that is faster than Can Am, yet slower than Retro Pro ?  Where is this pent up desire ? ? ?   We already know that half the guys racing on the King Track struggle to drive lightweight cars, and so now let's give them faster cars ???  

 

Ever watch Retro Pro at Buena Park ? ? ?   Mass Carnage every time out..... half the time the full field never finishes a race,,, we take bets on the sidelines on how many people will finish, and who will be the first out....

 

So, by all means, build away and this is another class that I will say right now, doomed, in my opinion

 

Wait for the East Coast guys to get it all sorted out...Let them have a class of better handling, faster cars for their tracks, and let's wait and see how it affects their Can Am class, because if the class takes off, who will want to run the slower Can Am's ? ? ?   Ever seen the racers step backwards to run slower, more ill handling cars !


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#33 Mark Wampler

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:23 PM

That's doom and gloom, but have to give credit to the Right Coast  enthusiasm backed up by a full set of rules and what appears to be eager builders, not to mention some interest coming from NorCal way.

 

I think I already pointed out that racers WANT to go faster.  Faster at the same or even less the cost.  THAT is the appeal.  RP is a motor builder class and more expensive.  Plus isn't. Easy to morph into the Plus column from existing inline support.   The AW coupes already have a small but well established place in racing on the Flat Track.  I don't see that changing. 

 

  The reason that CanAm will survive and prosper is simple.  Confine it to Flat Track racing where its slower, more challenging for  those drivers.  Myself being one.  Plus for the King Only!  Who says everyone will have 70gr Plus cars?   Guys who like 98 gr cars may like an 88gr Plus car.  All of the details get naturally sifted out.  Who doesn't like to save on tires? I do.  Three races on a pair of tires sounds good to me.

 

What I'd like to do sometime with your (SCRRA Board) permission is to show up some Saturday and race one.  Where ever I qualify, I will be running with peers.  No harm done.  You can always alternate between CanAm and Plus on occasion to ease into a permanent role.   Do you want to see more builders and racers?  Give them a chance to fabricate, test and race.  If Plus goes the way of Jail Door, so be it.   I reject doom and gloom.  What will you guys do if the Plus class REALLY takes off back east and the west is left in the dust?  To me wait and see is too passive.  Ground floor is more exciting.  If the floor drops out, I'm okay with that  AND I had a great time in the hobby room in the process. 

 

 

So,  I'll be doing some planning and building the next couple of weeks.  I basically have two differences.  I'd set rear clearance at .040 and either Falcon TSR and especially Retro Hawk motor choices.  RP bodies may vary between East and West, but .007 thick is something I'd leave for testing.  Some suggest 10 thou on top only. 

 

=M=


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#34 redbackspyder

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:01 PM

Mark, I am all for putting more racers in the raceway, but why would we change the race day format for one or two racers ? ? ?  Just like now, we allow the Retro Hawk to be run in testing, should we just be a constant Hodge Podge for run what you brung every time ?  Hey, I had an idea, lets race anglewinder Nascars on the King this weekend, just let anyone run anything they choose ? ? ?

 

I see now that on the East Coast, they will have a class for Pro Slot Fk motors, and a combined class for Puppy Dogs and Retro Hawks...God bless them, they now get to have three motors in their box... I have enough motors, thanks , and I have enough classes to run, but maybe guys need more, and if they do, maybe they will pitch in and organize and run the show, I just do not know who these people are...

 

Plus, Mark, I suggest you and these guys on the West Coast that need another class, come up with a rule set like they did in the East, and then publish it for all to see, and  then we will see when you put on the race how many people show up on a consistent basis to race the class...


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#35 Noose

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:14 PM

Does the East Coast start at Nevada for you guys? Last I looked Ohio wasn't on the East Coast. LOL

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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#36 Mark Wampler

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:14 PM

All due respect Mill,  I'm a builder as well as a racer.  Builders have a spirit of adventure.  You evidently are not a builder.  So far, BP has very few builders overall.  If there were more builders, the attitude would be different.    I like to see some  builders chime in and those who support builders.  If not, then the naysayers have won. 

 

It took a very hard push from a few prominent racers to get the Retro Hawk on the radar.  It will have to happen with the Plus class too.


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#37 Noose

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:15 PM

And we on the East coast still run Jail Door. Lol

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#38 Mark Wampler

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:15 PM

Does the East Coast start at Nevada for you guys? Last I looked Ohio wasn't on the East Coast. LOL

Depends,  some think  anything east of the Calif border is just East.  Arrogant, I admit !


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#39 Mark Wampler

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:20 PM

And we on the East coast still run Jail Door. Lol

 More SCM's per capita in the "West" ? :yes3:


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#40 redbackspyder

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:36 PM

Mark, I am glad you are enthusiastic, but you race with us four times a year.... I hope that as many people have your enthusiasm, but being realistic, not a naysayer, we just do not have people in the SCRRA that are looking to race a whole lot of new classes.... If we did, they would Volunteer to organize and start races, wouldn't they ?  When I wanted an Enduro, I organized and did it... When I see an extra Saturday in the month, I organize a race and put it on, without anyone else's approval...  When we have a warm up race that falls outside the normal SCRRA schedule, I am usually the one who puts it on.

 

My point is, I wish all of you builders would pitch in and do some of the organizing work, and let us just sit back for a change and we will just show up and race if we choose...If the raceway was looking to stay open just on what a small minority wants, they would go out of business, right ?  

 

I am not naysaying at all, I fully support Noose and the IRRA having this Can Am Plus, because I think racers will eventually not want to run slower cars with more expensive motors... Fantastic, and I hope that they now will be able to see what our SCRRA rules have not limited, like lighter cars, more building opportunities, and ground rails.....

 

We just do not have the same makeup of racers that they have in other parts of the country, nor do we have the same organizers that some other organizations have... We got what we got, and we are just trying to make sure that our raceway stays open


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#41 redbackspyder

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:38 PM

And Mark, this is not about winning anything... Build whatever you want, just SHOW UP AND RACE ! That supports the track and keeps the doors open...

 

Noose, I commend you for continuing to run the Jail Door class... It , like the Nascars that you run , is a good class for people who like it...... 


Mill Conroy
 

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Deal me life's toughest cards, without chance for hope nor fame, just let me play this one last hand, and I'll win this whole damn game.

Second Most Interesting Man in the World.


#42 Mark Wampler

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:43 PM

And Mark, this is not about winning anything... Build whatever you want, just SHOW UP AND RACE ! That supports the track and keeps the doors open...

 

Noose, I commend you for continuing to run the Jail Door class... It , like the Nascars that you run , is a good class for people who like it...... 

I really don't look at the so called "Plus" class as a completely new class at all.  Its a progression.  A very easy one IMO. 

Fine, you won't mind if I run DQ then.  Maybe have a crack at some A guys.   I'll have to quote you,  "Build whatever you want, just SHOW UP AND RACE!"


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#43 redbackspyder

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:18 PM

Mark, you will have to run smaller front wheels, run Retro Pro bodies, and then get new motors... If you are all in for that, and want to build new chassis, by all means, go for it, the SCRRA has a habit of letting you run something unusual one time, and being DQ'ed while doing it.....  Now, I doubt you could get away with running a wing car for the day, but within reason

 

You are going to see Can Am Plus cannibalize Can Am in my opinion if it gets up and running well, because racers never want to run slower.....


Mill Conroy
 

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Deal me life's toughest cards, without chance for hope nor fame, just let me play this one last hand, and I'll win this whole damn game.

Second Most Interesting Man in the World.


#44 Mark Wampler

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:53 PM

 

 

You are going to see Can Am Plus cannibalize Can Am in my opinion if it gets up and running well, because racers never want to run slower.....

I have repeated this numerous times as history again repeats itself, but you miss the opposing point that reg CanAm being heavier, less slammed, bigger tires has a place on the Flat Track.  Fast cars for fast tracks,  slower cars for Flat Tracks.  Sooo.  shall I repeat this again?  CanAm does not have to be cannibalized !


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#45 Mike K

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:06 PM

Ever seen the racers step backwards to run slower, more ill handling cars !


Yep. It's called RETRO RACING...........
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So much DRAMA for such small cars....
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Don't DQ me for having the wrong SHADE of orange on my McLaren... after all, it's ONLY a toy car!!!


#46 redbackspyder

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:06 PM

Mark, we get half the turn out on the Flat Track....The racers that come to Buena Park will not support all these classes, I know, I have been there for the last 7 or so years and have seen it come and go.... We have a good balance the way we are, we can not get a regular Retro Pro Race, which is way faster, to catch on, other than at big races. . So, yes, let's obselete all the King Track Chassis that we currently have by running another, faster class of Can Am and let's all go out and buy more motors of a different kind,,,,sounds really appealing to the average racer

 

When did you ever race a faster car on the King Track ?  I have personally been at every Retro Pro race and never saw you participate..... This is my point.....

 

This all sounds so good when we all talk about it, but it never seems to quite work out the way that you may think...  Just my opinion, like I said, you all with all the ideas should also be the ones to try organizing the races sometime, and let us simpletons just show up and race sometime..Now that would be an original idea


Mill Conroy
 

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Deal me life's toughest cards, without chance for hope nor fame, just let me play this one last hand, and I'll win this whole damn game.

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#47 redbackspyder

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:07 PM

Yep. It's called RETRO RACING...........

Mike, the slower classes, like 1/32 and JAIL DOOR died !!!


Mill Conroy
 

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Deal me life's toughest cards, without chance for hope nor fame, just let me play this one last hand, and I'll win this whole damn game.

Second Most Interesting Man in the World.


#48 redbackspyder

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:08 PM

I personally hope that all these new classes catch on, and I wish well to those organizers of all of them, God Bless Them, and let them do the work....


Mill Conroy
 

AKA : TWO LAP CONROY, Anointed Trigger Monkey by Mike Swiss

 

Deal me life's toughest cards, without chance for hope nor fame, just let me play this one last hand, and I'll win this whole damn game.

Second Most Interesting Man in the World.


#49 Mark Wampler

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:20 PM

Well, Mill Retro 32 hasn't completely died.  I bet there will be another shoot out on the Kingleman when everyone gets bored with F-1's on the Flatster.

 

I think you're getting influenced or scripted from someone, Mill?  So far you're the only dedicated negative on this thread.

There's nothing to worry about.  Whatever brings more racers  AND builders to the track is good for everyone.

 

A few years back, I built an AW coupe chassis for Oscar.  He raved about how fast it was and handled like a dream on the King Track.  He never got to compete with it and neither did anyone else get to compete.  We can't predict the future.  Retro Pro was the better fit for a fast, motor based class on the King.  The slower Coupes did not fit.  No spilled milk here.  Someone out there has that car.  Consider it a relic from the by gone days of early D3.


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#50 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:54 PM

All due respect Mill,  I'm a builder as well as a racer.  Builders have a spirit of adventure.  You evidently are not a builder.  So far, BP has very few builders overall.  If there were more builders, the attitude would be different.    I like to see some  builders chime in and those who support builders.  If not, then the naysayers have won. 

 

It took a very hard push from a few prominent racers to get the Retro Hawk on the radar.  It will have to happen with the Plus class too.

      Mark,

          Actually the SCRRA was watching what was going on with the Retro Hawk long before some of the racers suggested we give it a try.  :)

 

    As far as the new Can Am Plus class goes, it seems our own SCRRA Can Am is similar as we have much more lenient chassis construction rules and already no weight restrictions. When the SCRRA took over after D3 it was kind of thrown around that maybe we should just open the chassis rules up and allow ALL the restricted designs, hinges in any plane, center hinges, etc, etc, but most of the racers said to just leave things the way they were.  When using some of the higher downforce  IRRA style bodies was suggested John said basically that he didn't want to turn Retro into "$100 Wing Cars"...................and we still feel this way. No real need to go any faster and I think the Retro rules we have now are great as they allow a pretty good balance of chassis construction creativity versus restrictions.

 

         That being said, by all means Mark, please feel free to organize whatever you want with the new class as long as it doesn't conflict with the normal SCRRA racing dates of the 2nd and 4th Saturdays of every month.  I also would agree that an .040 rear clearance would simplify matters for racers as everyone is used to it  Then, even a regular SCRRA Can Am car could run the normal smaller .790 rears with a RP body thrown on and probably be competitive.  Go for it! :good:


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