Jump to content




Photo

Can-Am "Plus" West Coast discussion


  • Please log in to reply
154 replies to this topic

#26 Foamy

Foamy

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,579 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cali, baby!

Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:16 AM

Mark, trying to wrap my puny brain around this. . .

Is this be anglewinders, Can-Am bods, RH motors, any tires?


Dennis Hill
 
"Just once I want my life to be like an '80s movie,
preferably one with a really awesome musical number for no apparent reason."




#27 Jason Holmes

Jason Holmes

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 787 posts
  • Joined: 07-March 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Harbor CIty, CA

Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:50 AM

Dennis

 

I think its inline .600 FRT's .225wide, any size rears retro pro bodies and PS FK motors

 

Jason



#28 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,354 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:51 AM

Foamy,

 

The class is inlines, PS FK motors, and same bodies as Retro Pro.  No weight limit, no rear diameter tire limit.  That's it in a nutshell.


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#29 Mark Wampler

Mark Wampler

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,027 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Santa Maria, CA

Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:54 AM

Mark, trying to wrap my puny brain around this. . .

Is this be anglewinders, Can-Am bods, RH motors, any tires?

 

Its based on this page:

http://www.irraslotr...rules-final.pdf


You can quote me.

-Mark

#30 Mark Wampler

Mark Wampler

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,027 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Santa Maria, CA

Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:05 PM

I'd change rear clearance to .040.  F-1's use .790's @ .040 already.  :wink3:


You can quote me.

-Mark

#31 Foamy

Foamy

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,579 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cali, baby!

Posted 25 July 2014 - 03:56 PM

Dennis

 

I think its inline .600 FRT's .225wide, any size rears retro pro bodies and PS FK motors

 

Jason

OK, thanx. hmmmmmm. . .


Dennis Hill
 
"Just once I want my life to be like an '80s movie,
preferably one with a really awesome musical number for no apparent reason."

#32 redbackspyder

redbackspyder

    Renegade, Mutineer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,995 posts
  • Joined: 09-January 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rowland Heights, CA

Posted 25 July 2014 - 04:43 PM

Mark, all this discussion, and we can not get guys to show up as it is for a 3 class day, because they were all too tired to run a Retro Pro race after Can Am on our usual Saturdays, and we all know there are at least 22 Retro Pro cars out there.....  This is all great for verbal discussion, but none of this is ever going to happen with the current crew of racers at BPR, In my humble opinion

 

Just like the Jail Door Class, and the 1 /32 class, there will be enthusiasm for about a couple of months, then the wind will blow to someone else's sails, and there will be no more racing of the class....

 

Why do you need a class that is faster than Can Am, yet slower than Retro Pro ?  Where is this pent up desire ? ? ?   We already know that half the guys racing on the King Track struggle to drive lightweight cars, and so now let's give them faster cars ???  

 

Ever watch Retro Pro at Buena Park ? ? ?   Mass Carnage every time out..... half the time the full field never finishes a race,,, we take bets on the sidelines on how many people will finish, and who will be the first out....

 

So, by all means, build away and this is another class that I will say right now, doomed, in my opinion

 

Wait for the East Coast guys to get it all sorted out...Let them have a class of better handling, faster cars for their tracks, and let's wait and see how it affects their Can Am class, because if the class takes off, who will want to run the slower Can Am's ? ? ?   Ever seen the racers step backwards to run slower, more ill handling cars !


  • Rick likes this

Mill Conroy
 

AKA : TWO LAP CONROY, Anointed Trigger Monkey by Mike Swiss

 

Deal me life's toughest cards, without chance for hope nor fame, just let me play this one last hand, and I'll win this whole damn game.

Second Most Interesting Man in the World.


#33 Mark Wampler

Mark Wampler

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,027 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Santa Maria, CA

Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:23 PM

That's doom and gloom, but have to give credit to the Right Coast  enthusiasm backed up by a full set of rules and what appears to be eager builders, not to mention some interest coming from NorCal way.

 

I think I already pointed out that racers WANT to go faster.  Faster at the same or even less the cost.  THAT is the appeal.  RP is a motor builder class and more expensive.  Plus isn't. Easy to morph into the Plus column from existing inline support.   The AW coupes already have a small but well established place in racing on the Flat Track.  I don't see that changing. 

 

  The reason that CanAm will survive and prosper is simple.  Confine it to Flat Track racing where its slower, more challenging for  those drivers.  Myself being one.  Plus for the King Only!  Who says everyone will have 70gr Plus cars?   Guys who like 98 gr cars may like an 88gr Plus car.  All of the details get naturally sifted out.  Who doesn't like to save on tires? I do.  Three races on a pair of tires sounds good to me.

 

What I'd like to do sometime with your (SCRRA Board) permission is to show up some Saturday and race one.  Where ever I qualify, I will be running with peers.  No harm done.  You can always alternate between CanAm and Plus on occasion to ease into a permanent role.   Do you want to see more builders and racers?  Give them a chance to fabricate, test and race.  If Plus goes the way of Jail Door, so be it.   I reject doom and gloom.  What will you guys do if the Plus class REALLY takes off back east and the west is left in the dust?  To me wait and see is too passive.  Ground floor is more exciting.  If the floor drops out, I'm okay with that  AND I had a great time in the hobby room in the process. 

 

 

So,  I'll be doing some planning and building the next couple of weeks.  I basically have two differences.  I'd set rear clearance at .040 and either Falcon TSR and especially Retro Hawk motor choices.  RP bodies may vary between East and West, but .007 thick is something I'd leave for testing.  Some suggest 10 thou on top only. 

 

=M=


You can quote me.

-Mark

#34 redbackspyder

redbackspyder

    Renegade, Mutineer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,995 posts
  • Joined: 09-January 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rowland Heights, CA

Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:01 PM

Mark, I am all for putting more racers in the raceway, but why would we change the race day format for one or two racers ? ? ?  Just like now, we allow the Retro Hawk to be run in testing, should we just be a constant Hodge Podge for run what you brung every time ?  Hey, I had an idea, lets race anglewinder Nascars on the King this weekend, just let anyone run anything they choose ? ? ?

 

I see now that on the East Coast, they will have a class for Pro Slot Fk motors, and a combined class for Puppy Dogs and Retro Hawks...God bless them, they now get to have three motors in their box... I have enough motors, thanks , and I have enough classes to run, but maybe guys need more, and if they do, maybe they will pitch in and organize and run the show, I just do not know who these people are...

 

Plus, Mark, I suggest you and these guys on the West Coast that need another class, come up with a rule set like they did in the East, and then publish it for all to see, and  then we will see when you put on the race how many people show up on a consistent basis to race the class...


Mill Conroy
 

AKA : TWO LAP CONROY, Anointed Trigger Monkey by Mike Swiss

 

Deal me life's toughest cards, without chance for hope nor fame, just let me play this one last hand, and I'll win this whole damn game.

Second Most Interesting Man in the World.


#35 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,354 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:14 PM

Does the East Coast start at Nevada for you guys? Last I looked Ohio wasn't on the East Coast. LOL

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#36 Mark Wampler

Mark Wampler

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,027 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Santa Maria, CA

Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:14 PM

All due respect Mill,  I'm a builder as well as a racer.  Builders have a spirit of adventure.  You evidently are not a builder.  So far, BP has very few builders overall.  If there were more builders, the attitude would be different.    I like to see some  builders chime in and those who support builders.  If not, then the naysayers have won. 

 

It took a very hard push from a few prominent racers to get the Retro Hawk on the radar.  It will have to happen with the Plus class too.


You can quote me.

-Mark

#37 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,354 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:15 PM

And we on the East coast still run Jail Door. Lol

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#38 Mark Wampler

Mark Wampler

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,027 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Santa Maria, CA

Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:15 PM

Does the East Coast start at Nevada for you guys? Last I looked Ohio wasn't on the East Coast. LOL

Depends,  some think  anything east of the Calif border is just East.  Arrogant, I admit !


You can quote me.

-Mark

#39 Mark Wampler

Mark Wampler

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,027 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Santa Maria, CA

Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:20 PM

And we on the East coast still run Jail Door. Lol

 More SCM's per capita in the "West" ? :yes3:


You can quote me.

-Mark

#40 redbackspyder

redbackspyder

    Renegade, Mutineer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,995 posts
  • Joined: 09-January 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rowland Heights, CA

Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:36 PM

Mark, I am glad you are enthusiastic, but you race with us four times a year.... I hope that as many people have your enthusiasm, but being realistic, not a naysayer, we just do not have people in the SCRRA that are looking to race a whole lot of new classes.... If we did, they would Volunteer to organize and start races, wouldn't they ?  When I wanted an Enduro, I organized and did it... When I see an extra Saturday in the month, I organize a race and put it on, without anyone else's approval...  When we have a warm up race that falls outside the normal SCRRA schedule, I am usually the one who puts it on.

 

My point is, I wish all of you builders would pitch in and do some of the organizing work, and let us just sit back for a change and we will just show up and race if we choose...If the raceway was looking to stay open just on what a small minority wants, they would go out of business, right ?  

 

I am not naysaying at all, I fully support Noose and the IRRA having this Can Am Plus, because I think racers will eventually not want to run slower cars with more expensive motors... Fantastic, and I hope that they now will be able to see what our SCRRA rules have not limited, like lighter cars, more building opportunities, and ground rails.....

 

We just do not have the same makeup of racers that they have in other parts of the country, nor do we have the same organizers that some other organizations have... We got what we got, and we are just trying to make sure that our raceway stays open


Mill Conroy
 

AKA : TWO LAP CONROY, Anointed Trigger Monkey by Mike Swiss

 

Deal me life's toughest cards, without chance for hope nor fame, just let me play this one last hand, and I'll win this whole damn game.

Second Most Interesting Man in the World.


#41 redbackspyder

redbackspyder

    Renegade, Mutineer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,995 posts
  • Joined: 09-January 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rowland Heights, CA

Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:38 PM

And Mark, this is not about winning anything... Build whatever you want, just SHOW UP AND RACE ! That supports the track and keeps the doors open...

 

Noose, I commend you for continuing to run the Jail Door class... It , like the Nascars that you run , is a good class for people who like it...... 


Mill Conroy
 

AKA : TWO LAP CONROY, Anointed Trigger Monkey by Mike Swiss

 

Deal me life's toughest cards, without chance for hope nor fame, just let me play this one last hand, and I'll win this whole damn game.

Second Most Interesting Man in the World.


#42 Mark Wampler

Mark Wampler

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,027 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Santa Maria, CA

Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:43 PM

And Mark, this is not about winning anything... Build whatever you want, just SHOW UP AND RACE ! That supports the track and keeps the doors open...

 

Noose, I commend you for continuing to run the Jail Door class... It , like the Nascars that you run , is a good class for people who like it...... 

I really don't look at the so called "Plus" class as a completely new class at all.  Its a progression.  A very easy one IMO. 

Fine, you won't mind if I run DQ then.  Maybe have a crack at some A guys.   I'll have to quote you,  "Build whatever you want, just SHOW UP AND RACE!"


You can quote me.

-Mark

#43 redbackspyder

redbackspyder

    Renegade, Mutineer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,995 posts
  • Joined: 09-January 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rowland Heights, CA

Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:18 PM

Mark, you will have to run smaller front wheels, run Retro Pro bodies, and then get new motors... If you are all in for that, and want to build new chassis, by all means, go for it, the SCRRA has a habit of letting you run something unusual one time, and being DQ'ed while doing it.....  Now, I doubt you could get away with running a wing car for the day, but within reason

 

You are going to see Can Am Plus cannibalize Can Am in my opinion if it gets up and running well, because racers never want to run slower.....


Mill Conroy
 

AKA : TWO LAP CONROY, Anointed Trigger Monkey by Mike Swiss

 

Deal me life's toughest cards, without chance for hope nor fame, just let me play this one last hand, and I'll win this whole damn game.

Second Most Interesting Man in the World.


#44 Mark Wampler

Mark Wampler

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,027 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Santa Maria, CA

Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:53 PM

 

 

You are going to see Can Am Plus cannibalize Can Am in my opinion if it gets up and running well, because racers never want to run slower.....

I have repeated this numerous times as history again repeats itself, but you miss the opposing point that reg CanAm being heavier, less slammed, bigger tires has a place on the Flat Track.  Fast cars for fast tracks,  slower cars for Flat Tracks.  Sooo.  shall I repeat this again?  CanAm does not have to be cannibalized !


You can quote me.

-Mark

#45 Mike K

Mike K

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,259 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:06 PM

Ever seen the racers step backwards to run slower, more ill handling cars !


Yep. It's called RETRO RACING...........
  • Jonathan Forsyth, Samiam and compman25 like this

So much DRAMA for such small cars....
Mike Kravitz

Don't DQ me for having the wrong SHADE of orange on my McLaren... after all, it's ONLY a toy car!!!


#46 redbackspyder

redbackspyder

    Renegade, Mutineer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,995 posts
  • Joined: 09-January 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rowland Heights, CA

Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:06 PM

Mark, we get half the turn out on the Flat Track....The racers that come to Buena Park will not support all these classes, I know, I have been there for the last 7 or so years and have seen it come and go.... We have a good balance the way we are, we can not get a regular Retro Pro Race, which is way faster, to catch on, other than at big races. . So, yes, let's obselete all the King Track Chassis that we currently have by running another, faster class of Can Am and let's all go out and buy more motors of a different kind,,,,sounds really appealing to the average racer

 

When did you ever race a faster car on the King Track ?  I have personally been at every Retro Pro race and never saw you participate..... This is my point.....

 

This all sounds so good when we all talk about it, but it never seems to quite work out the way that you may think...  Just my opinion, like I said, you all with all the ideas should also be the ones to try organizing the races sometime, and let us simpletons just show up and race sometime..Now that would be an original idea


Mill Conroy
 

AKA : TWO LAP CONROY, Anointed Trigger Monkey by Mike Swiss

 

Deal me life's toughest cards, without chance for hope nor fame, just let me play this one last hand, and I'll win this whole damn game.

Second Most Interesting Man in the World.


#47 redbackspyder

redbackspyder

    Renegade, Mutineer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,995 posts
  • Joined: 09-January 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rowland Heights, CA

Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:07 PM

Yep. It's called RETRO RACING...........

Mike, the slower classes, like 1/32 and JAIL DOOR died !!!


Mill Conroy
 

AKA : TWO LAP CONROY, Anointed Trigger Monkey by Mike Swiss

 

Deal me life's toughest cards, without chance for hope nor fame, just let me play this one last hand, and I'll win this whole damn game.

Second Most Interesting Man in the World.


#48 redbackspyder

redbackspyder

    Renegade, Mutineer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,995 posts
  • Joined: 09-January 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rowland Heights, CA

Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:08 PM

I personally hope that all these new classes catch on, and I wish well to those organizers of all of them, God Bless Them, and let them do the work....


Mill Conroy
 

AKA : TWO LAP CONROY, Anointed Trigger Monkey by Mike Swiss

 

Deal me life's toughest cards, without chance for hope nor fame, just let me play this one last hand, and I'll win this whole damn game.

Second Most Interesting Man in the World.


#49 Mark Wampler

Mark Wampler

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,027 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Santa Maria, CA

Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:20 PM

Well, Mill Retro 32 hasn't completely died.  I bet there will be another shoot out on the Kingleman when everyone gets bored with F-1's on the Flatster.

 

I think you're getting influenced or scripted from someone, Mill?  So far you're the only dedicated negative on this thread.

There's nothing to worry about.  Whatever brings more racers  AND builders to the track is good for everyone.

 

A few years back, I built an AW coupe chassis for Oscar.  He raved about how fast it was and handled like a dream on the King Track.  He never got to compete with it and neither did anyone else get to compete.  We can't predict the future.  Retro Pro was the better fit for a fast, motor based class on the King.  The slower Coupes did not fit.  No spilled milk here.  Someone out there has that car.  Consider it a relic from the by gone days of early D3.


You can quote me.

-Mark

#50 Bryan Warmack

Bryan Warmack

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,661 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:54 PM

All due respect Mill,  I'm a builder as well as a racer.  Builders have a spirit of adventure.  You evidently are not a builder.  So far, BP has very few builders overall.  If there were more builders, the attitude would be different.    I like to see some  builders chime in and those who support builders.  If not, then the naysayers have won. 

 

It took a very hard push from a few prominent racers to get the Retro Hawk on the radar.  It will have to happen with the Plus class too.

      Mark,

          Actually the SCRRA was watching what was going on with the Retro Hawk long before some of the racers suggested we give it a try.  :)

 

    As far as the new Can Am Plus class goes, it seems our own SCRRA Can Am is similar as we have much more lenient chassis construction rules and already no weight restrictions. When the SCRRA took over after D3 it was kind of thrown around that maybe we should just open the chassis rules up and allow ALL the restricted designs, hinges in any plane, center hinges, etc, etc, but most of the racers said to just leave things the way they were.  When using some of the higher downforce  IRRA style bodies was suggested John said basically that he didn't want to turn Retro into "$100 Wing Cars"...................and we still feel this way. No real need to go any faster and I think the Retro rules we have now are great as they allow a pretty good balance of chassis construction creativity versus restrictions.

 

         That being said, by all means Mark, please feel free to organize whatever you want with the new class as long as it doesn't conflict with the normal SCRRA racing dates of the 2nd and 4th Saturdays of every month.  I also would agree that an .040 rear clearance would simplify matters for racers as everyone is used to it  Then, even a regular SCRRA Can Am car could run the normal smaller .790 rears with a RP body thrown on and probably be competitive.  Go for it! :good:


  • usadar likes this





Electric Dreams Online Shop