52 replies to this topic

[havlicek]

Last week I did a sequential rewind of some big old padlock motor (1/8" shaft, .75" diameter arm... I think a Strombecker or something). Now this was interesting because the others I've done went into "can" type motors with stout magnets. The other interesting thing about this one was that it was a #27 wind.    I got the message back that, well... here's part of it:

The motor is quiet and dead smooth, and you can see the meters on the power supply. It creates absolutely NO heat at all. It doesn't sound like anything I've heard before, it spools up quickly and smoothly and seems to rpm far in excess of any other padlocks I have heard. It is still breaking in, 1 amp or so at 5 volts, the comm looks perfect.

 
From the very first few of these I did as "whacky experiments", it became clear that these arms are inherently MUCH more balanced.  This particular one was close enough that I was worried that I'd only make it worse by trying to balance it... so I left it unbalanced. There's definitely something to these things, and I'll keep playing with them for a while for sure.  

Meanwhile, suitable "upgrade" parts are available in modern Mabuchi motors, and I have one coming that I "think" will have a .750" diameter arm in it. For a few bucks, it's worth it even if I only get a five-pole com for a 1/8" shaft out of the deal.
 
-john

[SlotStox#53]

Sounds like a perfect success, John! A great progression from the can motor five-pole experimenting you've been doing.
 
BTW that five-pole arrived safe and sound and wow, what a smooooooooth sounding and looking motor!!!
 
The biggest thing with some of the padlock armatures is that the comm is either welded like most of the RAM ones or, just like the original Mabuchi comms, very weak, so it proves hard to find bits or for you to be able to work your on them...

Great news you may be able to get five-pole comms with 1/8" shaft.
 
Any beauty shots of the sequential five-pole padlock?

[havlicek]

Hi Paul,
 
Glad it got there safely.  

Hang onto that bad boy because I'm fairly certain you're not going to find a commercial motor wound that way.
 
-john

[SlotStox#53]

Oh, have no worries on that score, John. This five-pole 36D ain't going nowhere.  

Now gotta think up a sweet ride to do it justice.

[boxerdog]

A teaser or two... more info to follow soon, I hope.

[SlotStox#53]

Sweet! I was wondering if it was one of your motors, David. That is gonna be a beast!
 
Really like how you've machined the end plates...

[havlicek]

One amp at 5 volts... not bad for an unbalanced #27 wind.  

All you rewinders out there (yes, both of you ) , this is something very cool to screw around with. I like to think it's the kind of thing that easily would have been done "back then", and it really doesn't screw with the vintage vibe of the motors.  

The one thing is though, these comms (at least the one on this motor) strike me as being awfully fragile. While the new Mabuchis don't seem all that bulletproof (and certainly weren't designed anticipating high revs), they seem stronger and the phenolic is fresh and not brittle.
 
-john

[boxerdog]

I think John is right on top of something here (as usual), but as he says, there are not any bulletproof five-pole 1/8" comms that we know of... yet.

All of us old guys had "Pittman experiences" in our youth, so we know that they won't last or stay true. The .750" diameter just hasn't been too popular with the Asian motor factories it seems. We will see how it works out.

[SlotStox#53]

If the sequentially-wound five-pole 36D I have in front of me that John crafted and your initial results with this motor are anything to go by, John really is onto something.
 
Be very intrigued to hear the initial track test results, David. Have you got any specific car planned for this yet?

[havlicek]

One of the earlier five-pole sequentials I did was a 26D. The "test pilot" tried it out at (I think?) Mike Swiss' place and they set up a video feed. The motor ran well right out of the box, smooth and fast.  

None of them have been "barn burners" because I don't know how long any of the comms will last even with only a "moderate" wind, but they have all proved the concept, and now even in an open frame with less magnet.  

There's still a ton of testing to be done as far as set-ups, timing, and of course, what the actual limits are for the actual winds. Right now, a #27 doesn't even seem particularly crazy.  

I think that these motors have the potential to be particularly well-suited to slot cars because of the smooth power band adding to the "driveability" factor.
 
-john

[boxerdog]

Paul,

Not sure yet as to which car... I will have to decide soon!!

dc

[Marty N]

Try Mabuchi or Johnson 540 RC. 3.2MM (.125)?

[SlotStox#53]

Paul, not sure yet as to which car... I will have to decide soon!!

You still have a little time, David. When you get down to one week or days then you have to panic!

Maybe intriguing to see what this does on a rail? You already have some proven ones maybe take the slowest one and give the HPower rewind a go

Good idea, Marty; was looking at the 540 motors yesterday as possible.

[Marty N]

Try Brood Racing.

[boxerdog]

Marty, the 540 arms that I have are .900" and three-pole. Could one possibly grind the stack down that far to .750?
 
I also assume that there is a five-pole version available somewhere, much like there is in the 360 series; I just don't seem to have any of them in my pile.

[Marty N]

Don't know the diameters but know there are two different ones and yes, there are five-pole 545 motors.

I'd email Brood and ask...

[boxerdog]

Thanks. I checked out their site and also sent the info to John... at the very least perhaps the comms are available for the five-pole they show.

[SlotStox#53]

Brood does some cool-looking motors and bits.   Especially the actual five-pole armature with their comm that looks basically like a five-segment Mura. Solder hook tabs look meaty. Perfect upgrade for Pittman arms and some five-pole RAM ones.

[havlicek]

OK... I got the Mabuchi 455 motors in (I ordered two from China).  These are five-pole arms with a 1/8" shaft, a .750" diameter and a really nice-looking commutator, seemingly beefier and definitely different than the normal Mabuchi five-pole comms.  The lams look a lot like those in the "Brood" website pictures, but the gap between poles is very skinny. The winding legs will be much better to wind on these, but the narrow gap between poles will add some difficulty.  

As with all the modern Mabuchis, the shaft material seems to be a very nice stainless steel with a good polish on it. The stack in stock form is about .900" long, but I was able to get off the end lamination so more lams can be removed and the end lam reinstalled to come up with a shorter length as needed.  

The stock wire is ultra thin... maybe #35 or so and the arm had 230 turns of that stuff on there! As would be expected, these motors turn REALLY slow in stock form at "slot car voltages" , but even the magnets are excellent in these things... measuring a stout 1200 on my meter!  

I'll never have any use for them though because there's no way to get an endbell to make up a can motor out of the parts.

Anyway, at around $5 a pop, these motors are a bargain.
 
-john

[SlotStox#53]

Sounds pretty much a Holy Grail type moment for yourself as a winder and general slot car motor but also padlock motors in general. Perfect for replacing fragile Pittman comms!
 
Rewind on, Sir!

[George Blaha]

Mr Havlick ,
 
Would a Russkit 34 endbell be large enough to clear the comm tabs and if it does, does the advance plate allow you tweak the curve without having to wind more with more or less timing?
 
 
Shakey George

[boxerdog]

... or maybe cut down an R/C or Checkpoint endbell??

[havlicek]

Hi George and Dave,
 
See, what I was thinking is that the 455 (like about all the modern Mabuchis) a self-contained can and "endbell", also just like the "FK" motors. So, you open it up and toss the "brush carrier" part and you have a round can (albeit, a really long one), really strong magnets, and a very nice armature.  

With the smaller motors, you can (and I have often!) just use an existing and "conventional" can and endbell and install the rewound arm. This can, besides being a full round type which would obviously not be the best kind for a road car because of the high CoG, is also too large by quite a bit for even a "36D" sized endbell.  

So, it's not about clearing the comm tabs at all... in fact, the comm diameter is about the same as the beefy Champion (also marketed by others) "rewinder's comm". It's about being able to fit the arm in a can with those magnets with no suitable en bell.
 
No big deal,  though I hate to waste those magnets, I have a couple of arms and comms for a few bucks for the next big open frame sequential five-pole.
 
-john

[boxerdog]

So make a really big round "walnut"... shorten the can and stack and add a round endbell with external brushes. I will send one along.

[EddieO]

If you guys want measurements and such, just let me know... I get lots of ideas and info from this site and members, so no problem helping back...

I bought some comms on eBay... held up nice. They look to have some smaller stuff that may work for slots as well...

2.3mm x 5.6mm x 12mm 5 Tooth Copper Case Commutator



Later,

EddieO