Jump to content




Photo

Two cars from the English garage


  • Please log in to reply
36 replies to this topic

#1 SlotStox#53

SlotStox#53

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: 13-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:TX

Posted 09 August 2014 - 06:46 PM

Having found my Dads old slot car box with a car he purchased from Tottenham Model Raceways (a Riggen Open group 20/Group 22 plated anglewinder) with heavily-modified Mura B-can, I've been hooked on these cars. Now having seen all of the Pro car anglewinder '69 and with hot B/C can buids on here and reading all the reports from this race series it's the perfect chance to have a go at building some.  :D :dance3:
 
Snagging some parts for the parts box over the months off ePay and aquiring some kool B-can parts from Rick I had planned one or two of these type builds a bit later on from this series due to the 20/40 milled B-can, plus motor endbell cooling modifications that were already underway. But seeing the proposed car build and the possibility of having the cars taken round the track by Rodney I've moved the builds forward!! :laugh2:
 
In no particular order here are the collected parts so far.
 
Team Nutley pans in .040" and .047" and the newly-aquired BEE pans (were the BEE parts later?).
 
PANS.jpg
 
Nutley drop arms in .040" and .050" with a Phaze 3 of .047".
 
DROP ARMS.jpg
 
The already mentioned 20/40 milled B-can; yes, it's milled for lower CG but it only has mild cooling ducts filed where the endbell meets the can, but no other mods unlike all the heavily cut=up A-cans I thought I could swing it.
 
A Certus "Baby X" low profile motor endbell with super proofer plates and larger 36D brushes/hoods.
 
Single 24# bubble gum arm (thanks, Rick!!)
 
Double 27# sitting on its packet (if I read the Mura label correctly) which is equal to the single 24#?? 
 
27/28# double from Certus.
 
The single 24# will go in this can/endbell and will look to obtain another motor setup so as to use either of the other spicy arms. :laugh2:
 
Motor parts.jpg
 
Fresh Riggen orange sponge with Rick and Steve's Riggen front and rear wheels.
 
Wheels and tires.jpg
 
So nothing concrete as of yet and like Rick won't be able to get cracking on the chassis straight away I thought I'd share the parts I will be deciding from for a possible wiiiiiiiide GP car (those things just look so awesome :D ) and either and Coupe or Can-Am.

 
To be continued!!! 
 
Disclaimer: this shouldn't take as long as the R&C cars took but can't say for sure!!! :ph34r:
  • n.elmholt likes this




#2 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,975 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou, Mississippi Gulf Coast

Posted 10 August 2014 - 07:36 AM

Those fronts with O-rings turn out really sweet once ground down; they are a snug fit. Might not even need glue.
Paul Wolcott

#3 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,201 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 10 August 2014 - 08:28 AM

The blue packaged Nutley parts are not originals. They were repops made by REHco.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#4 SlotStox#53

SlotStox#53

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: 13-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:TX

Posted 10 August 2014 - 08:41 AM

Thanks for the info, Tony. :good:

Was the red/white package original Nutley?

#5 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,201 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 10 August 2014 - 12:07 PM

Red and white yes. It was designed by Jose Rodriquez.

BEE also made a steel center section; it was mild steel which bent real easy. Not many used it but Jerry Brady had some success with it.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#6 SlotStox#53

SlotStox#53

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: 13-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:TX

Posted 10 August 2014 - 12:09 PM

Thanks! At least a couple of sets of pans I've got are original parts. :D

Will now know when looking at parts in the future to look for the red and white labels. :good:

#7 Steve Okeefe

Steve Okeefe

    We're all mad here

  • Administrator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,056 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greencastle, PA

Posted 10 August 2014 - 01:34 PM

Tony,
 
Jose Rodriguez?  What a cool (if trivial) factoid.  B)
 
Do you happen to know how this came to be? Did Tango ask him to design the header card?

#8 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,201 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 10 August 2014 - 05:57 PM

Don't remember. How it came about. Jose used to come to Nutley at least once a week to hang out. Really great guy.

Jose also did all those chassis drawings in Car Model.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#9 SlotStox#53

SlotStox#53

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: 13-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:TX

Posted 18 August 2014 - 06:40 PM

With needing a second B-can setup I did some searching and this turned up at H.Q. :good:
 
Got the smaller brushes/hoods, and endbell screw holes look a little worse for wear! Arm looks a very meaty wind with some hefty tying of the comm although no tags. Any ideas/rough guesses as to what the wind might be for a stock looking B-can with the earlier cooling holes?
 
Will be tearing it down for a closer inspection of the arm and clean-up etc... No more PIN TABS!!! :shok: :laugh2:
 
B1.jpg
 
B2.jpg
 
B3.jpg
 
B4.jpg

#10 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,720 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 18 August 2014 - 09:23 PM

Paul, looks like a great candidate for a refurb. Other than Grp. 20 arms, those of this era weren't tagged except for Thorps and a few that had engraved stacks. Your arm could be most any wind, my guess would be either a 24 or 25 single.

Your brush springs look stout. Those 16D brush hoods could be changed to a pair of 36Ds.

Have fun with your rebuild. :)
Bill Fernald
 
"I'm not short, I'm just down to earth."

#11 SlotStox#53

SlotStox#53

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: 13-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:TX

Posted 18 August 2014 - 09:40 PM

Thanks, Bill. :good: :)
 
I noticed the springs too, certainly have a lot of tension! 
 
Have got a care package coming from a family friend with a bunch o' Mura motors and parts including some brush hoods so may well swap over to the larger 36D ones. May even put on the super proofer heatsink plates on, too. 
 
The only B-cans I've used and seen in person were the popular ones in the UK, in Group 20 tagged flavor with the metallic green cans and rectangular cooling hole. So not knowing what other winds/specs they could of come with from factory I thought I'd ask. :)
 
Time to dig out the nail clippers and extract those pin tabs and gaze in wonder at the mystery armature, to see if it's worthy of staying in the set-up or moving aside for the 27/28 or 27 double above.
 
Will definitely have fun... :D

#12 Dave Fiedler

Dave Fiedler

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 421 posts
  • Joined: 14-October 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 August 2014 - 10:45 PM

Paul,
 
I think that might just be the very first version of the B production motor. Released late summer of '69.
 
Enjoy opening that rascal up.
 
Sano Dave
Dave Fiedler
1953-2015
Requiescat in Pace

#13 SlotStox#53

SlotStox#53

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: 13-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:TX

Posted 18 August 2014 - 10:57 PM

Hi Dave. :)

Thanks for the info. When the beast is opened up will post some pics. :good:

#14 SlotStox#53

SlotStox#53

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: 13-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:TX

Posted 20 August 2014 - 11:25 PM

Attacked the pin tabs with the nail clippers and resistance was futile for the little devils. :laugh2:
 
Here's the arm after being taken out, butyet to be cleaned up. Looks in good condition and a fair gauge of wire on it. May use it or could save it for something else and as already said could have the 27/28 double wind replace it seeing as this is an unknown quantity!
 
B can arm 1.jpg
 
B can arm 2.jpg
 
B can arm 3.jpg
 
Progress on both motors and the early starts to my first ever :shok: scratch build Pro type cars to follow... soon. :D

#15 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,975 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou, Mississippi Gulf Coast

Posted 21 August 2014 - 07:35 AM

Looks good to me. Light 'er up and see what happens. :dance3:
Paul Wolcott

#16 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,720 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 21 August 2014 - 08:02 AM

The arm overall looks to be in good shape and the comm doesn't have a lot of brush wear on it. It should clean up nicely.

If it were mine, I'd cut the comm and get it rebalanced. The older epoxies used weren't nearly as stable as today's and arms usually went out of balance at the first sign of heat.
Bill Fernald
 
"I'm not short, I'm just down to earth."

#17 SlotStox#53

SlotStox#53

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: 13-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:TX

Posted 21 August 2014 - 08:47 AM

Thanks, Pablo and Bill. :)

Seems like a good idea to get this and the other arms reconditioned, to keep them in tip top condition. :D

#18 Foamy

Foamy

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,580 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cali, baby!

Posted 21 August 2014 - 02:37 PM

Arms of that era tend to explode on today's tracks. I would get a clone arm made to run and save that one for a display car.

Recent past experience here...
Dennis Hill
 
"Just once I want my life to be like an '80s movie,
preferably one with a really awesome musical number for no apparent reason."

#19 SlotStox#53

SlotStox#53

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: 13-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:TX

Posted 21 August 2014 - 05:43 PM

Thanks for the heads-up, Dennis. :good: Have heard of the vintage hot arms going :bomb:.  Remember several explosions being documented on here with the comm segments ripping off. :shok:

So will definitely keep it in mind.
 
Put 'em in and drive it like ya stole it. :D :laugh2:

#20 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,221 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 22 August 2014 - 03:53 PM

Hi Paul,
 
That does look like a first generation B, probably with a bit later period replacement arm. It would be nice to know EXACTLY when Mura started using the green powder=coated stack. I've got a new Thorp from this race series time frame and it's still using the fiber end plates but with .007" laminations. :unknw:
 
Hmmmmm... it might have had a re-balance job by the look of a large balance hole drilled half way through a smaller one... oh the stories I bet it could tell! :laugh2:
 
Anyway, I looked through the motor mod articles and they are still using 16D brushes.

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#21 SlotStox#53

SlotStox#53

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: 13-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:TX

Posted 22 August 2014 - 04:08 PM

:laugh2: Yeah can imagine the stories! Thanks for the thoughts and info, Rick. :good:
 
First gen B with later period replacement arm... just wish it was engraved or even tagged would make the decision to use the existing arm so much simpler!
 
10-4 on the modding articles and 16D brushes/hoods being used at that time. If I use the other B can with 36D brushes it could be a "what if motor". :good: That's one period-korrect motor and one that's used the wayback to go forwards. :laugh2:

#22 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,720 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 22 August 2014 - 04:16 PM

Paul,

If a balancing service had touched that arm, I would expect to see a shoulder from the comm cut, yet I don't. Also, a good balancing service would have removed the metal burrs around the balance holes. The double holes shown are unusual.

Perhaps this arm has seen a racer's static balancing? I rebalanced some previously balanced French arms in the late '60s, but never double drilled them.
Bill Fernald
 
"I'm not short, I'm just down to earth."

#23 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,221 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 22 August 2014 - 04:30 PM

Also, a good balancing service would have removed the metal burrs around the balance holes.

 
Who said it was a "good balancing service"?   :crazy:   Just kidding, Bill!!  :laugh2:   Maybe is was a "racer's static" balance job? It for sure seems weird to see a big, burred hole drilled half way through a small factory hole. It would be interesting to see what it looked like after a modern rebalance.

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#24 SlotStox#53

SlotStox#53

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: 13-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:TX

Posted 22 August 2014 - 04:47 PM

Hadn't thought of those points, Bill. :good: Thanks.
 
Well, Rick, we may not have to wait long to see what it would look like with a modern rebalance... Gonna look at shipping this and a couple of other arms including that 27/28 double off for a comm cut, clean, and dynamic rebalance. :good: Have got a comm lathe waiting for some use but having never used one I don't feel these should be the first attempts. :laugh2:

#25 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,720 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 22 August 2014 - 06:28 PM

No, you practice on some Chinese 16Ds. It's not difficult to do once you get your bit height set and the rotation direction determined. I have an older Cobra lathe, but I've used a Hudy comm lathe to teach its owner how to use it. Both work fine, but the Hudy is nicer. :)
Bill Fernald
 
"I'm not short, I'm just down to earth."





Electric Dreams Online Shop