Jump to content




Photo

F1 center weight/shaker pan set-up question


  • Please log in to reply
7 replies to this topic

#1 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,176 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou

Posted 12 August 2014 - 04:30 PM

I'm searching for F1 theory here.  Going to build an RGeo Victory 2 soon, which has a .050 brass shaker piece in place, ready to be cut off and set up however I desire. I've built these type chassis before so I'm no newbie, but this time I want to do something different.  I've seen the piece connected to the pans and called "shaker pans", they work OK.  But do I really need that much gravity force on my pans ?  I've seen other variations.  Does the piece have to move ?  Does it have to connect to the pans ?  How about if I hinge it ? How would it benefit the car and how would I set up the tilt ? 100 gram minimum in IRRA, so the weight has got to go somewhere....

I was thinking maybe a 15 thou platform to hold a rectangle of lead that can slide back and forth with acceleration/deceleration to alternately load the front/rear momentarily. I'm looking for a clever setup but nothing is coming to me......your ideas/theories/experiences are welcome, thanks.

Pablo


Paul Wolcott




#2 Preston M

Preston M

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 492 posts
  • Joined: 04-January 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 12 August 2014 - 06:49 PM

Pablo,

 

I would try to float the center- pan independently from the sidepans. I have done this before with other class chassis, and they seem to all work very well. You can also do independent side pans and then have the center floating as well. lastly would be to have the pan set up as the "torsion" pans.


Preston Meyer
Team R-Geo

#3 old & gray

old & gray

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 382 posts
  • Joined: 15-April 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:CT

Posted 12 August 2014 - 08:17 PM

Paul,

 

You could hinge the weight in front and restrained by a shaker in the back. This lets the weight tip forward under braking and rotate side to side in corners. Here is an example of this idea from the BPR race, it's a Can Am but a picture is worth a half page of text.

post-646-0-70476700-1407819498.jpg


Bob Schlain

#4 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,176 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou

Posted 12 August 2014 - 08:51 PM

That is exactly the kind of info I'm looking for, thank you very much, gentlemen.

I want more ! :)


Paul Wolcott

#5 Duffy

Duffy

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,791 posts
  • Joined: 25-January 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Geographically Brooklyn, Politically Berkeley

Posted 12 August 2014 - 09:45 PM

There're two things that I and a couple of friends have been exploring for a while in re mass placement in chassis, & we talk about them this way: (1) "Sequential Mass Input Transfer" and (2)"Mass Moment Concentration."

 

Simply put as I've ever put anything, it's this:

(1) SMIT (you can figure it out, right?) relates to what we've been developing in our chassis since '08 or so when we started copying what we'd been doing back in ''68 or so; the earliest Retro sleds hark directly back to those thrilling days, but without a clear relevance to what was going on then that we've grown past since: like, better tracks, like less glue, like...

So, the original idea was, get as many elements moving at different instants as possible, figuratively "sequencing" any motion inputs throughout the whole car, and theoretically delaying the moment when it all got to be too much for the poor thing and it popped out; & we got floppies and plumbers and flops for the flops and on and on.

But, lately, we've been paring back on all those flops & plumbs; because we've learned that a lot of that stuff was in there to deal with track conditions that're no longer relevant. We've got better tracks, we don't need near as much forgiveness. That's oversimplified, but I'm trying to keep this brief.

 

So, now, it becomes a matter of how much sequential motion is enough. - And not too much.

Your job, Pablo, is to presage how much SMIT you'll build into a given chassis, for a given track.

 

Same goes for (2) MiMiC:
Some guys are solidly linking some elements together, to make a chassis element whose mass is concentrated in oe spot, but behaves as though its total mass moment is different. Like f'rinstance, treating the perimeter  - that is, the outline of the chassis that the body mounts to - as a unit, and then setting mass outboard in the "rails" or inboard in a center section, to create a SMIT property that'll behave in some way we believe will benefit us. The fashions of shaker perimeters in sports cars, or a perimeter wire tied into a center shaker in F1, are two examples of MiMiC.

 

That clarify things a little?


Michael J. Heinrich
1950-2016
Requiescat in Pace
 
And I am awaiting
perpetually and forever
a renaissance of wonder

#6 Mike Patterson

Mike Patterson

    Village Luddite™

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,891 posts
  • Joined: 14-October 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Zanesville, OH

Posted 13 August 2014 - 09:44 PM

 No.


  • Rick likes this

We all need to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer.


#7 John C Martin

John C Martin

    J.C Martin

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,055 posts
  • Joined: 02-November 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Smyrna, TN

Posted 15 August 2014 - 09:14 AM

Agree with Duffy ..depends on the track...
I usually like very little up and down in pans .less flop...and a lot more forward and back..
With a shaker,, I'd say tiny amount of up,,a little more slide front to back..

#8 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,176 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou

Posted 15 August 2014 - 10:04 AM

Thanks JC, that makes sense.


Paul Wolcott





Electric Dreams Online Shop