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#26 tonyp

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 06:56 PM

I'll believe a .1 when I see it. Sounds like good marketing.
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"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#27 MSwiss

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 07:04 PM

Tony,

I believe Monty convinced himself it worked.

His OCD was so out of control he was willing to risk getting me fired from Koford so he could readjust the comms on Pro Slot arms to coincide with the timing he believed they were, versus what Pro Slot had engraved on them.
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#28 slotcarone

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 07:05 PM

About fifteen minutes on a power supply then put them in a car and hammer them!! Have never hurt a Hawk doing this and after a few minutes you will see the lap times start getting better and better. After about fifteen minutes the times will stabilize and you are ready to race.
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#29 chaparrAL

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 07:35 PM

By the way...   :pardon: 

In the HO scale cars, the endbells that came in the G+ cars, and that we still use in our BSRT G3 Super Stock racers, have this odd brush arraignment ,too.
Is this by accident? :scratch_one-s_head: Perhaps the same crosseyed engineer worked on both of them. :sarcastic: 

Why would they do this intentionally?  Hell, would it not be better to not even bother to radius the brushes at all?

Wild guess: perhaps they are made this way because the automated machinery that the are produced in will only do it that way. :hi: 


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#30 Samiam

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 08:31 PM

"Thermos... Keeps hot food hot... cold food cold"

 

"How do it know? How Do-It Know?" :wacko2:


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#31 tonyp

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 06:54 AM

Mamalukaboboday.


"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
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American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
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#32 brnursebmt

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 08:03 AM

I agree, Tony!


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#33 Fast Freddie

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 10:20 AM

Maybe a motor broken in on the power supply only wears in the brushes and a motor broken in under a load (at the track) not only wears in the brushes but also anneals the comm, which can reduce friction and improve performance. This might also account for better lap times after the first heat and a performance improvement as the race goes on.


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#34 John C Martin

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 10:40 AM

My reasons for water break-in IMO... are the comm stays much cleaner, smoother comm... no arcing... All motor parts stay cool... there is no wear on the bushings, or motor shaft, for hours.

Get r done..



#35 MSwiss

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 11:36 AM

No arcing?

It arcs more. That's how the brushes break in much faster. It's like a mini EDM machine.

Put your motor on the power supply with the lights out.

Check the miniscule arcing from the tiny brushes.

Now lower it into the water with the motor horizontal, like it would be in the car, so you can still easily see into the motor.

It's a light show.

When you remove it, it still arcs a lot until the water dissipates.

As far as shaft wear.

The Hawk Retro and all other FKs have great shafts and bushings. Once in awhile you hear of a bad bushing, but those are either clearly defective or somehow it's an adverse reaction to the one certain lubricant that always seems to be the one being used when you hear about it. I've never seen one personally in nine years.

I ran the Hawk 25, 3,400+ real miles, without any noticable wear.

All that said, I see nothing negative about water break-in.

I drop the whole back end of my Retro cars in a cup of water regularly.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
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17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#36 Pablo

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 11:40 AM

How does the motor know the lights are out?
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#37 Cap Henry

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 01:26 PM

I think a lot of bushing failures are from gear meshes being set too tight. Since the FK motors spin so smoothly it seems like some people set the meshes tight and think it's OK, because the motor still spins free.
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#38 Tim Neja

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 02:00 PM

The only reason a bushing will fail is because it's made of bad material!! You can't set a gear mesh too tight and affect a bushing! The motor would not spin freely or have a bind. 

I've had two bushing's fail in 10 years of racing - both happened on Demon motors when they first came out. The material in the bushing's just was too soft. Besides, if the busing was wearing because of gear mesh, it would soon not be very tight!! :)
She's real fine, my 409!!!

#39 Brinkley47

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 05:24 PM

Bobby,

If it makes you feel better, the cars I had that were semi good at Peachtree are bent like pretzels now.

Still learning how to tune these beasts and found out they don't like wall shots on a super fast King.

I wish I knew how to keep my cars in the slot out of the bank on a Gerding. It was a coin flip on whether I would be airborne or not. I know everyone didn't have those problems so it was something in my set-up.

And all my Hawks are broke in for an hour at 4 volts. And then I race them until they lose brakes. The motor I ran at Peachtree had ten races when I started (so now thirteen) and it gets faster every time. Just run them until they lose brake, re-gear if you can, but if not, throw away and put another $12 jewel in there.
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#40 Bud Greene

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 05:56 PM

You are not the only one, Will. I tore up three myself launching from that bank and hitting the wall by the doughnut.

Pablo told me how to do water break-in And I tried it. Now I'm a firm believer and won't go back to the other way.

#41 brnursebmt

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 05:57 PM

The track has some issues, no doubt! But they are fixable. That track is a motor track. If you don't have big power you might as well load up and go home!
 
But it was fun to drive! That is until for no reason your car just takes off and slaps the wall!
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#42 Bud Greene

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 06:00 PM

They just need to fix that one spot so cars can't get airborne and maybe move the lap counter.

#43 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 06:15 PM

I know of at least three other Gerding Kings that have a problem in the same spot. I think once they adjust the legs under the joint the hump will be greatly reduced, if not eliminated.
 
I tried two different RH motors at that race and they were both within a tenth of each other. I put the slower of the two in my back-up Can-Am car and let Tommy run it, he finished third and I won with the other one. They were both broke-in on the power supply for an hour at 5 volts.
 
The RH seemed to be good for a tenth over the PD at this particular track. Once the Can-Am race started I immediately regretted not running my PD, that's why I switched to a PD for F1. The lack of brakes in a RH just doesn't suite my driving style.
 
I know nobody wants to hear this but, if you try more than three or four RH motors and you're still tenths off the pace, the problem probably is not your motor.
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#44 John C Martin

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 06:35 PM

The F1s were jumping around really bad, I guess because of no downforce. The track is not as smooth as it looks. I think you need more guide shims than is necessary than if it were smoother. I didn't have those problems after adding a shim. But the F1 was really on the edge bouncing, anyway...

Stock Car was nailed as was Can-Am... weight and downforce I guess...

#45 John Gorski

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 07:26 PM

For those who dare, do the dusk :lazy:  till dawn :shok:  Hawk break-in... choose your poison 3, 4, or 5 volts.
Start motor before bedtime then wake up in the morningand& turn off your power supply alarm :wacko2: .
Post your results they may be surprising.   :wizard:


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#46 Tim Neja

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 08:01 PM

I just did two hours at 3 volts on two motors i'm running this Saturday! I'll try to get a 100 or so laps on them too before the race!! Then - we'll see.   :) :)


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#47 Tom Eatherly

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 08:25 PM

Mamalukaboboday

 

WTH! Sounds like some kinda Philipino talk I hear from my wife when I've gone off the rails a bit. Could be wrong.


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#48 John C Martin

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 12:54 PM

Guys, everybody has there way, we just get it done.

 

However I just think we're kinda lucky someone came out with these motors, at their price, speed, and durability plus their consistent and equal speed. Has added to the popularity of Retro as well as other classes.

Thanks, JK, for a great great economical motor.


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#49 Dallas Jackson

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 03:11 PM

I tried two Retro Hawk motors last night on water break-in at 5v for 30 sec; helped very little. Then I put 2 more min at 5v. Dry it out with can air til dry; spray with "Pure" to clean the slots on the comm, oiled and tested the motor.  At 5v the amps were not all over the board, it stopped bouncing around at the 1.2 min, with 28,246 RPM. amp's .037.

 

The second motor ran a total of two hours, amps were also all over the board to start with. After the R Hawk was finished running; the numbers was just under the water baby; amps .047 with RPM 23,907.

 

Dallas

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#50 Danny Zona

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 03:48 PM

I know nobody wants to hear this but, if you try more than three or four RH motors and you're still tenths off the pace, the problem probably is not your motor.


No way, Ralph. Driving and car set-up have nothing to do with speed. LOLs. Just kidding.


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