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#101 Rick

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 11:01 PM

Best to break them in beer. Lager preferred but pilsner will work...


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#102 bluecars

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 06:09 AM

Rick,

 

Motor or driver? :sarcastic_hand:


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Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#103 Pappy

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 06:37 AM

I break mine in in Crisco, it lubricates them at the same time so I don't have to oil them again after break-in.

Jim "Danger" Dunaway aka Butch
 
Danger is my middle name, that's why I race slot cars.

 

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nothing to be a PATRIOT." - Mark Twain, 1904

 

 


#104 Pappy

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 12:36 PM

I've been thinking about this...

Talking about the best way to break a motor in is not Retro. Back in the day if you found a better way to break a motor in you'd keep your mouth shut and kick a$$.  :laugh2:
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Jim "Danger" Dunaway aka Butch
 
Danger is my middle name, that's why I race slot cars.

 

Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.
 
"In the beginning of a change, the PATRIOT is a scarce man, and brave and hated
and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it cost
nothing to be a PATRIOT." - Mark Twain, 1904

 

 


#105 Noose

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 12:51 PM

Butch... correct. LOL.

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#106 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 03:02 PM

I like the Crisco idea.


Eddie Fleming

#107 John C Martin

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 03:59 PM

I got a good laugh out of that.

I break mine in in Crisco, it lubricates them at the same time so I don't have to oil them again after break-in.


Thanks, Butch.

But I like Mobile One better... No harmful fat...

#108 Bud Greene

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 04:57 PM

Motor or driver? :sarcastic_hand:


I vote for driver.

#109 Pablo

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 08:31 PM

Yeah, drown the driver in beer, he'll be broken-in fine.  :laugh2:
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#110 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 07:27 AM

Back through this topic the subject of The Peachtree City King track and its bumps came up a few times.

I ran a few laps there Saturday and talked to the people. They have adjusted the legs and smoothed the hump coming out of the bank. It seemed to be good.

They have not worked on the short chute but said they would be doing that, too.
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#111 Fast Freddie

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 10:17 AM

Best to break them in beer. Lager preferred but pilsner will work...


Yeah, Rick. Old Frothingslosh, the beer with the foam was on the bottom. You might be too young to remember those beer commercials showing the beer being poured into a glass and the foam staying on the bottom. How did they do that in the '60s?


Fred Younkin

#112 Tim Neja

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 07:40 PM

All this break in BS!! :)  Bryan Warmack and I both had motors that we had broken in for yesterday's Can Am race.  He did a "water" break in--and I ran mine on a power supply for 3 hours at 3 volts.  My motor would NOT go better than 4.3's occasionally with 4.4's regularly after my break-in and practice laps!!  And that was ONLY after putting 250 laps on it while practicing!!   Obviously the motor was NOT done breaking in as at the start of my practice--I was running 4.6's---it didn't improve until I got at least 200 laps on it!! then it would go 4.3's on occasion!!     Bryan was turning similar 4.3's at the start of the race as well---and he was hoping to see if the motor would do any better after a race!   BOTH of us after a couple of heats--began running consistent 4.1's!!  And ran them through to the end of the race!! It seems these things have VERY hard brush's--and they improve the MOST by running them on the track under normal loads!!  My motor improved over .5 of a second from first runs to about the 400 lap mark!!  Kind of a PIA--but now I'm going to keep track of how many races I'll get out of this motor!!  FWIW   :)


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#113 bbr

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 08:08 PM

All this break in BS!! :)  Bryan Warmack and I both had motors that we had broken in for yesterday's Can Am race.  He did a "water" break in--and I ran mine on a power supply for 3 hours at 3 volts.  My motor would NOT go better than 4.3's occasionally with 4.4's regularly after my break-in and practice laps!!  And that was ONLY after putting 250 laps on it while practicing!!   Obviously the motor was NOT done breaking in as at the start of my practice--I was running 4.6's---it didn't improve until I got at least 200 laps on it!! then it would go 4.3's on occasion!!     Bryan was turning similar 4.3's at the start of the race as well---and he was hoping to see if the motor would do any better after a race!   BOTH of us after a couple of heats--began running consistent 4.1's!!  And ran them through to the end of the race!! It seems these things have VERY hard brush's--and they improve the MOST by running them on the track under normal loads!!  My motor improved over .5 of a second from first runs to about the 400 lap mark!!  Kind of a PIA--but now I'm going to keep track of how many races I'll get out of this motor!!  FWIW   :)

good thing it finally got fast... fast enough to turn enough laps to help you win the combine event at the BIG SHOt race and a wad of $   :D


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#114 redbackspyder

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 12:43 AM

Tim, I disagree.... I broke a Retro Hawk in, and won the Formula one Race last month on the King Track with it first time out. The break in procedure to me was very important, and I am still gathering information but I believe that the motor ,with additional break in out of the car is now fully broken in , and I intend to probably run the motor on the flat track this week...  You may not think that motor break in on these things makes a difference, but there are some HUGE subtleties to these that make a complete performance difference in my opinion... Also, a key is to make sure the bearings are well lubricated, as these bearings are not the same as a TSR or Falcon 7....


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#115 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 12:54 AM

     Once again in the race yesterday at BPR that Tim was referring to I ran a Retro Hawk that I broke in similar to my earlier posts  #67 and #74. That is, AS FAST AS POSSIBLE.   I completely oiled it and ran it 30 seconds in water at 12V forward with an old Strombecker power pack. I cleaned it out thoroughly with Pure while running and reoiled it and ran it about another minute forward while occasionally blasting the brushes with more Pure. I reoiled it again and ran it a little to dry things out and cut the shafts and put a pinion on it and put it in a car.

 

     The only thing I did different next was to put it under a little load by putting some OLD tires on the car and sanding down the tires for about a minute until the motor got pretty warm. 

 

    I ran about 30-40 practice laps and the motor seemed more than OK.  It ran 328 laps in the race and was getting better every heat and Tim and I had a GREAT race and were separated by about 20 feet at the end of our race..............with fastest laps of 4.165 to 4.168.  Can't get much closer than that with motors on their first race.  If Tim and I were in the 2nd race I'm sure our lap total would have been well over 330 as our Main was plagued with track calls!

 

    I broke in a 3rd Hawk in the same manner and put it in another car and it seemed identical.....................so, I'm getting pretty repeatable results with a very quick and simple 4-5 minute motor break in........

 

     Congrats Tim on the overall win yesterday and walking out with the BIG envelope!!

  

     



#116 redbackspyder

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 01:22 AM

Tim, Congrats on your HO win and hope you come out this Saturday to the Flat Track Race.. Bring your Retro Hawk, and keep continuing the break in...


Mill Conroy
 

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#117 SocoJustin

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 05:21 PM

I personally love these retro hawks... 5 minutes in a cup of Junior Johnson's "Midnight Moon", spray a little quick dry electric cleaner.... Back in the shine for another 5 minutes... Brushes seat beautifully, comm nice and shiny...10 minutes of practice laps and motors are flying.... I have done 3 motors like this... I just recently returned to the slots after a 15 year absense.... I have been mid pack every week, even a 2nd and a 3rd when Dom Luongo or John Weaver stay home...lol 4y9ygemu.jpgjy2a9eva.jpg
As you can see how much brush material the moonshine removes and retains.... Im Just a southern boy that cant sit still...

Justin Ewell


#118 Pappy

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 05:43 PM

I believe that's illegal, those motors aren't 21 years old yet. The board needs to make a rule that no performance enhancing drugs may be used to break in a motor.  :shok:

 

Why in the hell would you waste good moonshine on a motor? . :tease:


Jim "Danger" Dunaway aka Butch
 
Danger is my middle name, that's why I race slot cars.

 

Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.
 
"In the beginning of a change, the PATRIOT is a scarce man, and brave and hated
and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it cost
nothing to be a PATRIOT." - Mark Twain, 1904

 

 


#119 SocoJustin

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 06:26 PM

Thats not "good moonshine".... Its crap.... Half water... I saw people getting results from a rubbing alcohol/water mixture so i just took it another direction... Its only 100 proof so no Don Garlits fire suit needed....

Justin Ewell


#120 Pablo

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 06:45 PM

Holy Cow, 100 proof is 50% alcohol and creates flammable vapors.

Only 18 posts, and you already scare the daylights out of me, Justin :laugh2:

If we don't see post #19, we will always wonder what happened to you....... :laugh2: :crazy:


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#121 old & gray

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 07:43 PM

Holy Cow, 100 proof is 50% alcohol and creates flammable vapors.
Only 18 posts, and you already scare the daylights out of me, Justin :laugh2:
If we don't see post #19, we will always wonder what happened to you....... :laugh2: :crazy:

 
Not to worry, fifteen years ago  an I-15 racer whose name will not be mentioned came up with an even better fluid than water. He used kerosene!!! 

Everything was fine until he lifted the running motor into the air vapor layer at the top of the jar. 
 
Only eyebrows were lost in the flash fire.
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#122 Pablo

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 07:58 PM

Poof! Burned eyebrows are no problem - but burned eyes require a trip to the emergency room and an explanation...
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#123 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 11:45 AM

Anybody have a trick to getting the carbon brush deposit out of the comm grooves? Normally Pure or CRD QD Electronic cleaner blasts with a little compressed air will do the trick, but I have a few stubborn ones. I have a scope and finding this issue is easy, but the slots seem narrower than a typical hobby blade. 
 
Being a non-motor guy, what is the ill effect of the build-up within the groove?

Matt Sheldon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


#124 MSwiss

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 12:27 PM

Modify your X-Acto blade with a Dremel or what would work out better is just a modified piece of .032" wire, sort of like the body hole punchers Iand others have sold.

Possibly the ticket would be a piece of K&S .015" wire, soldered along side the .032" wire, a little big longer at the end, and kept blunt at the tip.

Imagine this, with the longer piece being the smaller diameter piece of wire that fits in the comm slot.

IMG_20141010_123423.jpg

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#125 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 01:01 PM

Thanks, Mike! Actually I think I have some syringe needles here that are .010", would have never thought of that until your explanation. 
 
I am assuming the deposits would promote arcing from comm to comm?

Matt Sheldon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


#126 MSwiss

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 01:11 PM

Nothing positive comes from anything in the comm slots, especially if it is conductive.

A motor that has segments shorted would not spin free.

Although it really is not something you can check with the the RH, because the brush/spring setup is permanently in the motor, putting tension/friction on the comm.

Mike Swiss
 
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#127 John C Martin

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 12:22 PM

I've had some success putting it back in water and crank up the volts... then flush with spray...

#128 Gator Bob

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 01:32 PM

I hope these are looked upon as valid questions... and there isn't a defensive pile-on. 
 
If the RH was produced to replace the F7 that was not coming in 'on time' or as promised why was the spec changed to produce a better motor?
 
IIRC... The Hawk7 and Hawk6 were deemed too fast, is the RH as fast as a H7?
 
IRRA® has a list of approved motors but there looks like only one motor is showing to be competitive at this time. Is that good for the hobby?
 
Has the introduction of the RH upset the Retro 'apple' cart from coast to coast?


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#129 Mark Wampler

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 01:37 PM

Has the introduction of the RH upset the Retro 'apple' cart from coast to coast?

 
I think so, in the best possible sense.
You can quote me.

-Mark

#130 MSwiss

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 01:42 PM

How was the Spec changed?

The Retro Hawk and F7 are both 65t30 with 15 degrees timing and the same type of brush set-up.

The fact that the Retro Hawk is more consistent and lasts 3-5 longer is just a bonus.

IMO, the RH has a 95% approval rating with the racers and a 100% approval rating with the raceway owners.
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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - LOL) 
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
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#131 Gator Bob

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 02:07 PM

How was the Spec changed?

The Retro Hawk and F7 are both 65t30 with 15 degrees timing and the same type of brush set-up.

 
I don't really know but something is different in the way they run. Guess I asked the question wrong.
 
I do understand the power output and increased longevity is very popular.
Bob Israelite

#132 MSwiss

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 02:25 PM

The SCCRA now allows the RH along with the F7 and D3.

F7 powered cars still qualify for the A Main.

Are your chances better at getting an A Main runner with the RH? Yes.

Is that bad? No.

Is Bob wasting too much of my time asking the same question he's asked a half dozen times before? Yes.

Will he ever get the order he placed with me. Maybe.
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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - LOL) 
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#133 Tim Neja

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 02:38 PM

Bottom line is I keep hearing is they are more consistent!! I have NOT found that to be true!! Neither have several of our racers out here in the west!!! Let's NOT give it more credit than it deserves!!  

I've got 10 motors now – exactly two of them are fast enough to be truly race-worthy!!! That's roughly 20%!!! About the same ratio of really good Falcons and TSRs!!  

 

So yes,I have motors that last longer- – but that's meaningless if they're not fast enough to race with!!!

 

And the Retro Hawk is just enough faster overall that it has made other motors obsolete!! That was our main concern all along!! It's not giving us a better motor – just one that lasts longer.  

 

Same problems as before, but now we have one trick pony to ride where before we had two!!  IMHO.   :)

 

Exactly what we said would happen has happened. It's also obsoleting the PDs that the east were soo tirelessly crowing about for so long!! Now those motors are being sold off and not raced, so we now are down to one pony nationwide.  

 

Not sure if that's best for the hobby or not. But it is what it is!! :)


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She's real fine, my 409!!!

#134 MSwiss

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 02:54 PM

Tim,

You must have bad luck.

At the Sano, guys bought one or two hand-outs in the two GT Coupe races.

No one asked if they could buy a third.

Howie only bought one and was on a solid second or third place finish, until his controller crapped out.

Quite a few of the guys in F1 and Can-Am ran one of their earlier GT Coupe hand-outs in those classes.

Noose won Can-Am with a hand-out motor from an HVR flat track race.


Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - LOL) 
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#135 James Wendel

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 02:57 PM

I don't wish to interrupt the flow of the discussion, but could someone tell me the difference between the JK Retro Hawk and the JK Hawk 7... please?
You can't always get what you want...

#136 MSwiss

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 03:04 PM

PS: Tim,

If the RH motor lasts five times longer than the F7, even with your bad luck only getting two "good" ones out of ten, you still are getting five times as much competive horsepower for your buck.

So what exactly is your complaint?

Jerry could send hot blondes to rub the shoulders of the BP racers between heats, and you would counter, "Why no brunettes or redheads?" LOL.
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#137 Tim Neja

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 03:25 PM

I'm married to a "blonde"!! :)


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#138 kvanpelt

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 03:29 PM

I bought two hand-out motors for the Coupe race at the Sano, finished third.

Put the motor in my F1, TQ'd, and finished second. Never tried the second motor...

Kevin VanPelt
 
 

 

 


#139 Noose

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 03:53 PM

I won with a hand-out motor that had five races on it.


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#140 kvanpelt

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 03:57 PM

Where were the HOT Blondes for the Sano?


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#141 Gator Bob

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 04:13 PM

I hope these are looked upon as valid questions... and there isn't a defensive pile-on. 
 
If the RH was produced to replace the F7 that was not coming in 'on time' or as promised why was the spec changed to produce a better motor? Edited
 
IIRC... The Hawk7 and Hawk6 were deemed too fast, is the RH as fast as a H7?  Not Answered
 
IRRA® has a list of approved motors but there looks like only one motor is showing to be competitive at this time. Not a question.

 

Is that good for the hobby? Answered - Yes
 
Has the introduction of the RH upset the Retro 'apple' cart from coast to coast? Answered - Yes

 

 

The SCCRA now allows the RH along with the F7 and D3.

F7 powered cars still qualify for the A Main.

Are your chances better at getting an A Main runner with the RH? Yes.

Is that bad? No.

Is Bob wasting too much of *my time asking the same question he's asked a half dozen times before? Yes.

Will he ever get the order he placed with me. Maybe.

 

Come on Mike, I am trying to keep this logical and free of emotion. *I didn't specifically address post #128, you chose to reply.

 

 

I don't wish to interrupt the flow of the discussion, but could someone tell me the difference between the JK Retro Hawk and the JK Hawk 7... please?

 

Good question.


Bob Israelite

#142 MSwiss

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 04:24 PM

You're right , Bob.

The IRRA® and myself should of ignored your post so you could play the "Is thing on?" card, like you've done so many times before when your posts don't generate any responses.
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#143 Tex

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 07:30 PM

FWIW(Hey, look Ma, I'm learning interwebs-speak!), the JKHR didn't upset our retro racing in Texas; I guess we're too dumb to know the difference. We've had fun anyway. Did we do it wrong? :unknw:


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#144 Dan Ebert

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 09:49 PM

James,    The Hawk 7 has a hotter wind than the Retro.  The 7 is equal to the Demon and Evil 9 motors


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#145 Zippity

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 10:44 PM

My understanding is that the Retro Hawk has a tied commutator and the arm has been balanced.



#146 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 11:22 PM

FWIW, I have heard that the Hawk 7 now comes with a tied comm also. Both have the big hole in the can. The Hawk 7 has a slightly hotter wind and has the endbell shaft cut off.


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#147 Rick

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 11:56 PM

Just push the shaft thru the endbell more and you won't be able to tell if its a 7 or a RH. :)............


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#148 James Wendel

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 12:31 AM

Thanks, Dan(s) & Zip   :good:

 

Most times the guys on SlotBlog are really helpful. 

Other times it can be hard to get a straight answer.  :nea:


You can't always get what you want...

#149 MSwiss

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 01:10 AM

Just push the shaft thru the endbell more and you won't be able to tell if its a 7 or a RH. :)............

Unless you can figure out how to solder a pinion to air, it won't help you out.

The Hawk 7 shaft is way, way shorter.

Mike Swiss
 
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - LOL) 
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Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#150 Pablo

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 01:42 AM

Most times the guys on SlotBlog are really helpful. 

Other times it can be hard to get a straight answer.  :nea:

James, any time you feel you are not getting straight answers here on Slotblog, please send me a PM.

If I don't have your answer, I will direct you to a qualified individual who does.

Straight is the only way I know.  Ask anybody here :laugh2:


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