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#51 Pablo

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 08:56 PM

Dallas,

 

I don't understand anything about your experiment.  :shok:  Is there a conclusion involved?


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#52 bluecars

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 09:12 PM

:wacko2: Maybe? :crazy:


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#53 Dallas Jackson

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 09:54 PM

Yes, the water baby ran better than the one on power supply ran.

 

Dallas



#54 Pablo

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 11:04 PM

Thanks for clarifying, Dallas  :)  Post 54 actually makes sense.


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#55 John C Martin

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 09:26 AM

Yes, the water baby ran better than the one on power supply ran.


I can believe that... cleaner comm with water... IMO...

#56 kvanpelt

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 10:24 PM

How can you conclude the water break-in was better?
 
Maybe that one was better to begin with.
 
Maybe that motor was a one percenter and the water break-in turned it into a slightly better than average turd!
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#57 bluecars

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 10:49 PM

Maybe, so what. Everyone seems to have their own way of doing it.

If you don't like what you refer to as a turd, don't buy them. Then you don't have to worry about breaking them in. Nuff said.

Oh, and thanks for your input.

Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#58 Pablo

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 10:59 PM

Red,

KVP is just trying to help Dallas improve his testing methods.  :) No need to get snippy with him.

There is a right way to conduct an experiment, and I don't see it in post #49. Matter of fact, it gave me an Excedrin headache trying to understand it.  :D
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#59 kvanpelt

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 11:01 PM

Robert,

I like racing with the RH! You misunderstood my turd comment.

#60 MSwiss

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 11:44 PM

Dallas,

Did you take RPM readings before the break-in?

Mike Swiss
 
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#61 MSwiss

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 11:54 PM

The F1s were jumping around really bad, I guess because of no downforce


If they don't or can't fix it, maybe it's time for a new IRRA® class for that track and others that can't run F1s due to launching... F1+FSD.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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#62 Danny Zona

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 12:28 AM

Here is a suggestion on how to test water vs dry break-in.

Break-in ten motors in water and ten with a dry run. Then test all of them.

I would test them on the track. IMO, dynos and RPM readings really only give a ballpark figure at best if a motor is fast. Nothing like looking at lap times on the track. Plus a mediocre motor at one track can be a rocket on a different track.
Test, test, test and go test some more.
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Be a fountain not a drain.

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#63 MSwiss

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 12:59 AM

I'm not sure you can get any conclusive results on which break-in method is better.

Two different motors, two different break-in methods.

Like Kevin alluded to, how do you know or not know, that the faster of the two, was just destined to be faster?


Mike Swiss
 
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#64 bluecars

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 07:00 AM

Sorry, Kevin, I did misunderstand.

We all know that this isn't an exact science. Nothing is going to work every time with every motor on every voltage. Even taking ten motors (out of how many thousand?) isn't going to tell you anything.

I've seen lots of ways to break-in motors or even not to break them in. We'll all pick what makes the most sense to us (if we have time) personally I have not found a fast one out of the two I've run but I know they are out there. They outrun me on the straightaway every time I go Retro racing, so I know they are out there.

Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#65 Pappy

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 08:24 AM

I had a motor refurbisher (I won't mention any names for fear of getting egged) tell me the way to break-in a motor is on the track with the brake wire disconnected. I guess this reduces arcing.

But that was with a Puppy Dog motor so I don't know if it applies to a Retro Hawk or not.
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#66 John C Martin

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 11:16 AM

If they don't or can't fix it, maybe it's time for a new IRRA® class for that track and others that can't run F1s due to launching... F1+FSD.


Some or most didn't have a launch just a lot of bouncing coming off the bank to the deadman (losing laps) and finger to the ninety.

My Stock Car didn't count for 20+ laps first heat, but never came out of the slot..
I added .020" in guide shim and it counted from then on.

My F1 RH went bad in the second heat. Motor was up and down on power. I noticed big bouncing when it was fast on the finger to the ninety but no de-slots...but added .020" before the race...

The braid strip at the lap counter can be raised. I informed the owner who said they'd fix it. That may fix the launching also...

I do like the King better; it has no blind spot like black lane doughnut to the lead-on on the other track (character?).

#67 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 12:14 AM

Some info here from the SCRRA Retro Hawk testing at Buena Park Raceway in SoCal.  

In an effort to see just how fast I could reasonably seat the RH brushes and get it to the track and be competitive in its first race I broke one in like this...
 
1) Completely oiled the motor and using an old Strombecker 12v powerpack ran the Hawk in tap water for 30 seconds forward.
 
2) Pulled it out of the water and ran it for a few seconds to clear it out and gave it a few blasts with Pure contact cleaner.

3) Reoiled the motor and ran it for another minute forward while blasting it with more Pure.
 
4) Again, oiled the motor and let it run for about another minute dry... all told maybe five minutes from beginning to end. The brushes weren't completely seated but I've seen some run very well like this.
 
I installed it in an F1 car and ran it yesterday for its first race and ran a very respectable third with 322 laps in the King Track race at BPR.  

I'm sure there are better ways to break them in but if you don't have much time this should get you started.  :)
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#68 MSwiss

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 03:29 AM

Bryan,

Your speed in the race, did it increase, stay the same, or decrease?

Have you guys had any failures yet with the Hawk Retro? If so, how many?

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#69 Pappy

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 06:38 AM

One of the teams in the six-hour enduro at Tom Thumb ran a Retro Hawk but I don't know if they did it on one motor or not. I don't remember anyone smoking a motor during the race.
Jim "Butch" Dunaway
 
Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.
 
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It's the same when you are stupid.

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#70 redbackspyder

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 10:31 AM

I ran one for the first time in Formula One at Buena Park Raceway this weekend... The motor seemed like a good Falcon 7, the difference was that it never went away, although it never got any faster... It was fast enough that it won the race, with a good lap total of almost 328 laps, the biggest thing was that it showed little brush wear, and seemed ready to go for the next time...
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#71 Half Fast

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 12:32 PM

I can't believe Mill just said something nice about the RH! Somebody must be impersonating Mr. Mill :)
 
Cheers,
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#72 redbackspyder

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 01:26 PM

Bill,

I know now that this motor will become legal next year in SCRRA, so I got one from John Gorski to test, and after breaking it in, it seemed to be like a good Falcon 7, but with better brush wear. There were some rocket Retro Hawks on our track on Saturday, and the best Falcon is still no match for them, but the time of the Falcon 7 and TSR appears to be done, so eventually the Retro Hawk will replace these as the preferred motor...
 
Just as in the IRRA®, the Retro Hawk has been replacing the old vanguard motors, so with more testing we will eventually get a handle on breaking these motors in, and then I am sure everyone will be happy until the next big thing comes around.
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Mill Conroy
 

AKA : TWO LAP CONROY, Anointed Trigger Monkey by Mike Swiss

 

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#73 Mark Wampler

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 02:20 PM

Local racer and body painter Earl McCutcheon still runs his original RH. He has eleven races on it so far. 

Mine started losing brakes after seven races. Might still  be a contender on the drag strip though...
You can quote me.

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#74 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 04:03 PM

Your speed in the race, did it increase, stay the same, or decrease?

Have you guys had any failures yet with the Hawk Retro? If so, how many?


Mike,

Like most of them with very little running time, it seemed to speed up as the race progressed. I was more than satisfied with the simple and short break-in and I'm going to repeat it next time to see if I can still get a raceable motor without having to go through an electrochemical song and dance! :laugh2:
 
I think someone said they threw a wind, but basically so far no reliability issues whatsoever!

#75 Samiam

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 07:50 PM

I ran one for the first time in Formula One at Buena Park Raceway this weekend... The motor seemed like a good Falcon 7, the difference was that it never went away, although it never got any faster... It was fast enough that it won the race, with a good lap total of almost 328 laps, the biggest thing was that it showed little brush wear, and seemed ready to go for the next time...

 

I know now that this motor will become legal next year in SCRRA, so I got one from John Gorski to test, and after breaking it in, it seemed to be like a good Falcon 7, but with better brush wear. There were some rocket Retro Hawks on our track on Saturday, and the best Falcon is still no match for them, but the time of the Falcon 7 and TSR appears to be done, so eventually the Retro Hawk will replace these as the preferred motor...

Just as in the IRRA®, the Retro Hawk has been replacing the old vanguard motors, so with more testing we will eventually get a handle on breaking these motors in, and then I am sure everyone will be happy until the next big thing comes around.


Now wasn't that easy?
 

Sam Levitch
 
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