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PD mass exodus?


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#51 Tim Neja

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 08:21 PM

Well, an awful lot of eastern racers used to say how "cheap" it was to race PDs!!! That little FK throw away motors were so expensive!! Then we find out the guys with PD programs had thousands of dollars tied up in them to find the "magic" motor!!

 

And now the holy grail is the Retro Hawk motor!! it's still just a little Cheap chinese motor – and we still have to go through a lot of motors to find really good ones!! Yes they last longer – but if you have a slow one, lasting longer doesn't really help, now does it!!

 

The fact is – they are faster than the previous FK motors and competitive with the old PD motors, so they are taking over the market. Exactly what we said would happen if we had a faster FK motor. That isn't necessarily a better deal!!  

 

But it is what it is - let's go race. JK wins with a new FK motor. I hope we never have any supply issues like with the Falcon – because now we're down to a true one motor market. :)


She's real fine, my 409!!!




#52 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 08:28 PM

Rational doesn't work here LOL. Rationally post and then it will get questioned to death. What is the the ohms per foot, what is the impedance of the wiring of the track, How many feet of braid is in the track, are all lanes equal, you say it is 408 strand braid, but did you count it, did you drag your feet on the carpet before touching your controller, what is the exact PSI that your brushes were formed at, huh, huh, huh???

 

It just works and works better can no longer be an answer.


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#53 redbackspyder

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 08:43 PM

Matt, nice try, but we have not documented with racers own reports that there seems to be an issue when Retro Hawks on on the track with other motors... I have noticed this with the Falcon 7, and so have many with the Puppy Dog...

 

Why, when we are running a 300 amp power supply, with Bull Dog amps as well, and running through RV batteries, hooked up by Swoford??? Now, if these motors only draw a couple amps maximum, what gives?


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#54 Gator Bob

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 08:44 PM

.... it's still just a little cheap Chinese motor...

 

Exactly. :clapping:

 

:spiteful: Do they keep all the good ones for their own cars...?


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#55 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 09:24 PM

Mill - 'the force is with the Hawk"

 

The laws of physics will say that when the track power has more wattage than the load requires, then NO voltage drop CAN occur.

 

In the bad old days of the 1960's when tracks were wired by guess and by gosh, many a strong motor was left high and sluggish by many a low amp drawing stock motor.  When I dug my Miniature Grand Prix track out of the storage to restore/moderize, I found a total lack of sound physics applied to the wiring... ONE 18 gauge tap per lane and one four amp power supply for each set of four lanes. No wonder my Cox 36D could beat my Pittman 65/6volt road cars.

 

Today's tracks do not suffer this lack of power unless the track owner is too cheap to have AT LEAST a 75 amp Bulldog under an eight-lane track.

 

My last place Puppy Dog did drive better than my back-up Hawk car, but I did not get to compare the two after Noose made me change motors in tech.


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#56 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 09:31 PM

Jerry Kulich told me that the next batch of Hawks will have a clear "Rtero" etching on the can to help distinguish it from the rental Hawk 25K motor - which works very nicely in club 1/32 and plastic cars.

 

Hawk T-shirts may be in the works also.


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#57 Cap Henry

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 05:15 AM

Here's my experience. Even before the RH, an FK motor was better in a race situation vs a PD on low power/ bad power conditions. The example is a PD car TQing then in the race being .1-.2 slower while the FK cars are matching qualifying speed. My assumption always was the FK had such lil amp draw that power drops effected it minimally vs a PD. I know Bud Bartos won at least one Penn-Ohio using a Falcon.

But on any track that had good to high power, the PD was always better. Now the RH is competitive/maybe even ahead on standard power (13.5ish). My experience, six plus months old now for the record, was on 13.8+ plus the PD still had a small advantage. Now that guys have even more experience with the RH that may not be the case.

For a lot of racers the Retro Hawk is great. It's cheap and fast. But I don't think obsoleting guys' PD motors was the way the switch should have happened. But it's water under the bridge now.


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#58 John Streisguth

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 05:35 AM

And if the supply of Falcon 7 motors was not interrupted, we would not be having this conversation. IMO, it's unintended consequences. 

 

I imagine the same thing is starting to happen with the Parma 501 motors.


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#59 Dan Ebert

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 06:28 AM

Make that two wins last year for Falcon motors in the Penn-Ohio Series.  Race #6 was won with a Falcon in the F1 class, the second place car also had a Falcon Motor in it.  

 

People that are claiming Hawks are faster than the TSR Falcon haven't tested both motors enough. That Falcon motor holds the track record for laps and fast lap in F1 at North East Raceway. 

 

I agree with Caps statements above on the motor performance to track power.


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#60 Noose

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 06:40 AM

And if the supply of Falcon 7 motors was not interrupted, we would not be having this conversation. IMO, it's unintended consequences. 

 

BINGO!


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#61 The Number of

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 06:48 AM

Hawk T-shirts may be in the works also.

 
Maybe have a Hawk (the bird kind) flying off with a puppy (the dog kind) in its talons and have the puppy with a collar that looks like a motor seal!

 

:victory:


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#62 Samiam

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 06:54 AM

And if the supply of Falcon 7 motors was not interrupted, we would not be having this conversation. IMO, it's unintended consequences. 
 
I imagine the same thing is starting to happen with the Parma 501 motors.


And so goes the conspiracy theories.
 
Any loss of sales of PD motors will now be nullified by Pro Slot 16D sales.
 
This is nothing new. It has been going on since the '60s. And when some dam breaks and takes out the Chinese factory making the JK HRs this will all start over.
 
In the meantime entries are up all over and racers are happy with the motor.
 
"Power on in three... two... one..."
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#63 Gary Adams

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 06:54 PM

Maybe have a Hawk (the bird kind) flying off with a puppy (the dog kind) in its talons and have the puppy with a collar that looks like a motor seal!

 
Now that is a T-shirt I would definitely buy! :laugh2:


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#64 Gator Bob

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 07:08 PM

"Everybody wants something:laugh2:


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#65 bluecars

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 07:35 PM

:laugh2: You need a hobby, Bob.  :sarcastic_hand:


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#66 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 04:35 PM

I agree that higher voltages make the PD happy. 

 

I also advocate the standardized track voltage range of a standard automotive battery - 13.2-13-6 volts DC - period... for the whole industry.


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#67 Cheater

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 04:43 PM

Larry,

 

You're completely nuts. :)

 

A standard track voltage would make entirely too much sense for the insanely independent raceway "industry" to support.

 

As we both know, there are almost no standards of any kind involved in slot racing, regardless of scale, which explains quite a lot if you're a thinking person.

 

Wish it wasn't so...


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#68 Gator Bob

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 04:47 PM

You need a hobby, Bob. 

 

:scratch_one-s_head:

 

:laugh2: What's wrong with Looney Tunes and Slotblog?   :wacko2:  :tease:  


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#69 Bill from NH

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 05:29 PM

Can you keyboard race in Looney Tunes, too? :sarcastic_hand:


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How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#70 bluecars

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 06:18 PM

:roflmao: That's just one. :roflmao:  :sarcastic_hand:


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#71 Zippity

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 06:33 PM

Larry,
 
You're completely nuts. :)
 
A standard track voltage would make entirely too much sense for the insanely independent raceway "industry" to support.
 
As we both know, there are almost no standards of any kind involved in slot racing, regardless of scale, which explains quite a lot if you're a thinking person.
 
Wish it wasn't so...

 
And a standard (International) controller/track connector.  :)

maleIECconnector.gif

#72 Gator Bob

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 07:10 PM

Ron .... You have been told but for some reason it doesn't register.

 

We have laws against that.

 

It's actually pretty simple - if it looks like an AC outlet ... It is.

 

http://www.nfpa.org/...tents#TabAnchor


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#73 bluecars

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 07:42 PM

:wacko2: Used clip on my controllers for roach clips more than once in the past. That made them illegal, too. LOL.  :sarcastic_hand:


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#74 Zippity

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 09:57 PM

Ron .... You have been told but for some reason it doesn't register.

 

We have laws against that.

 

It's actually pretty simple - if it looks like an AC outlet ... It is.

 

http://www.nfpa.org/...tents#TabAnchor

 

Oh it registers alright :)

 

Just because you guys have adopted some stupid misinterpreted regulation, is not my issue.

 

World wide, those plugs are known as "safety plugs" - period! :)

 

Now, how about providing me with a specific link?



#75 Mark Crowley

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 11:32 PM

 

Oh it registers alright :)

 

Just because you guys have adopted some stupid misinterpreted regulation, is not my issue.

 

World wide, those plugs are known as "safety plugs" - period! :)

 

Now, how about providing me with a specific link?

 

Common sense and lawyers. Plus OSHA in USA. Plug 120v into track and braid is lethal.

 

OSHA Standards 29 CFR

 

1910.304(b(2)(v) Receptacles connected to circuits having different voltages, frequencies, or types of current (ac or dc) on the same premises shall be of such design that the attachment plugs used on these circuits are not interchangeable.

Mark







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