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New Kurtis proxy car built by Pablo


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#1 Pablo

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 02:30 PM

No, there isn't a new Kurtis car proxy round coming up (yet, anyway) so don't get too excited.

 

Jaak (I like to tease and call him Jaaaaaak  :)) from France has been asking nicely for help to improve his game from the start. 

His finishes were not great, but he has a good attitude and wants to learn. Some people have worked on his car a little bit here and there to improve it, like Manta Ray in Chicago. It needs more than that, so I volunteered to receive his car before it returns home to fully critique it and offer my suggestions on improvements.

 

I did a complete post-race teardown and found some things that keep it from reaching its potential. I think I opened Jaak's mind, especially being sensitive to weight up high and chassis flex. 

 

I decided the best way to back up some of the things I taught him was not changing his chassis, but starting over from scratch. So even though the series is over at present, he will see my work up close in person when I send it to him. My plan is to build a chassis even better than my own #12 Dean Van Lines car, and show Jaaaaaak here everything step by step. I didn't want to cannibalize parts from Jaak's chassis, so some new parts are on order.

 

Let's build a race car, Jaak. For now, I can begin prepping some parts. Your flag was the wrong type (cut down), so I swapped it even-steven for a brand new (standard thickness) flag. I ran it through the Cahoza threader a little at a time, cleaning the cut thread pieces as I went, ending up all the way to the hilt.

 

IMG_2218.JPG

 

Then I faced the nut and the flag.

 

IMG_2221.JPG

 

Trimmed the post a little (not too much, Pablo !!! :dash2:) then re-cut the first couple threads with the facing tool.

 

IMG_2223.JPG

 

Sanded the braid decks flat

 

IMG_2227.JPG

 

IMG_2224.JPG

 

Flag is done. Two 10 thou steel spacers - one will go under the tongue, the other will be over it. That way if you need another spacer during a lane change, no need to go to the pits to get a spacer - it's right there ready to go. John Clow taught me that.  :D

 

IMG_2225.JPG

 

Onward! :dance3:


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#2 Gator Bob

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 02:36 PM

True 'guidance' for Jaak. :good:


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#3 Jaak

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 05:15 PM

Thanks, Pablo. Much appreciated. Looking forward to the lessons. :good:

 


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#4 Pablo

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 01:58 AM

Backing up for a moment, this is how we "pin" a guide flag, a la cheater Wells:

IMG_2250.JPG

IMG_2284.JPG

 

.047 piano wire piece goes down below the deck and partially into the blade.

If somebody shears off a flag post in a crashfest race, it won't be this one :aggressive:  :laugh2: 


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#5 Jaak

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 02:01 AM

Never realized there could be so much improvement on just the guide!

Thanks for sharing Pablo :victory:


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#6 Pablo

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 08:20 AM

The goal is to spend as much time as possible perfecting each and every single part before it becomes part of the racecar.

The DNF I suffered in Florida was a rare event for me.  Don't bank on seeing that happen very often, Bunky :bomb: :crazy:  


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#7 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 11:38 AM

:king:

 

"Flag was the wrong type (cut down), so I swapped it even-steven for a brand new (standard thickness) flag."

 

How do you choose the flag? What kind are good?  


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#8 Gator Bob

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 01:09 PM

Me!? Only use a cut-down where you 'have to,' like on flush(ish) braid tracks with stamped steel cars.


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#9 Bill from NH

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 02:23 PM

Use a cut-down flag on any chassis that doesn't have to have a minimum front clearance and the front wheels don't have to touch. Stamped steel and others.

 

:)  


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If a chicken coop has 4 doors, does that make it a sedan?


#10 Pablo

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 08:58 PM

"Flag was the wrong type (cut down), so I swapped it even-steven for a brand new (standard thickness) flag."

 

How do you choose the flag? What kind are good?  

Simple answer, Charlie, this is a proxy race car, the flag is mandated by the rules.

Jaak's car arrived here with the wrong flag - a Parma "The Blade" 70223 (cut down type) - technically it was illegal - the rules for this series call for a Parma "The Blade" 70222 standard thickness flag (non-cut down).  At some point in time between Chicago, Germany, and Florida his flag was changed to a cut down because the front of the chassis was way too high.  It's a very minor issue and obviously Jaak wasn't trying to gain any performance by it.

 

My favorite flag is the Parma Blade, both cut down and non-cut down. NOT the white ones-those are for rental cars.  The reason they call them "cut down" is stupid in my opinion and I'm not even going to explain it.  When somebody says "cut-down" they mean .032 deck thickness.  When they say "non-cut down" they mean .063 deck thickness.  :) End of story


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#11 Bill from NH

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 10:08 PM

Just to add, the deck thicknesses mentioned by Pablo in the post above, is only the area around the guide post where the guide tongue fits, not the complete top of the guide.  Just how they make cut-down guides, I don't actually know. But I'd think they use a specially made steel cutter or grinding stone.

 

I like the maroon & white nylon versions of the Parma Blade. I boil both before use. Black ones are stronger & don't seem to need the boiling.


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If a chicken coop has 4 doors, does that make it a sedan?


#12 Pablo

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 10:26 PM

The only reason I boil anything is to eat it, or dye it a different color :laugh2:  You keep boiling yours, I'll keep pinning mine :laugh2:


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#13 Bill from NH

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 10:35 PM

If you ever had a guide break in an area other than the post, you'd boil & pin them. :sarcastic_hand:


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If a chicken coop has 4 doors, does that make it a sedan?


#14 Pablo

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 02:44 AM

Jaak, your new Kurtis car is going to use body clips. On a skinny car like this, it just makes sense. There is a trick to using them, you will figure it out soon enough. A body clip man can remove and replace a body before a pin tube guy even blinks. If you set them up using my method, they will never fail.

 

Stock JK 2" body clip:

IMG_2288.JPG

 

Modified clip.  The front bend is relaxed about 35 degrees and both ends are sharpened a little:

IMG_2287.JPG

 

Nothing in the Kurtis rules prohibits us from trimming excess fat, so I removed some plastic from Dave Crevie's masterpiece driver assembly.  I'm sure he approves - I carved away a huge amount of the worst race car weight there is - high up, and useless. The driver figure needs to go on a diet. 

IMG_2302.JPG

 

After his diet:

IMG_2321.JPG

 

Now she looks like this:

IMG_2315.JPG

 

And your race car just dropped a bunch of high up weight.


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#15 Pablo

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 06:06 PM

Jaaaaak, are you out there ? :)

JK motor brackets are always close to being perfect, so it didn't take much work to get it there.  I tweaked it a little and now it's (almost) perfectly flat, straight, and true with 90 degree angle bends.  The tool I use to check stuff is an X-ACTO Precision Edge Square.  Jaak, I said "almost perfect" because Greg Wells taught me this:  "nothing is perfectly straight, but rather there are varying degrees of straightness".  Did I say that right, Greg ?  :crazy:  I also faced the bracket front surface as flat and true as possible using my 10" Disc Sander then I layed a (wet) sheet of 400 grit wet/dry automotive sandpaper on a flat surface and sanded all surfaces including the 3 sided bottom edge.  Unfortunately, the bottom is going to be a mile up in the air anyway so it was fun, but wasted effort  :laugh2:  I took care to ensure the motor face was true because if it's not, when you tighten your motor screws some things are going to become distorted - not good, Bunky. It could bind up your arm shaft or stress your motor box and you'd never know why the car just plain sucks no matter what you do.  Once the bracket has been perfected, it is aligned in every way before tacking the 1.594" axle tube and oilites home.  There will be enough room for two Slick 7 .022 thick spacers on each side - that way the needle oiler can get in there.

IMG_2349.JPG

 

Last time I built a Kurtis car, I used the only tool I had available that was perfect size OD for jig wheels - a pair of .900" vintage wheels - set the axle then got 'em out of there and cleaned 'em up real quick.  Not a kosher way to do business - but sometimes in the heat of the battle ya just gotta use what works

IMG_2327.JPG

 

This time I tried a different approach, screwing studs into the threaded holes on the Rick's jig and making the bottom of the axle exactly .3875" up off the jig surface. This will give me .050 clearance using 1.000" OD rear wheels (I hope).  Jaak, you don't want to know how much time it took me to make sure and triple check this was all correct before I plugged in the Ungar :)

IMG_2330.JPG

IMG_2339.JPG

 

(don't worry, Jaak, that's not your new Falcon 2 motor :laugh2: )

 


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#16 Pablo

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 10:28 PM

At this point, Sir Jaak, I'm pretty sure everything is where I want it, so I slathered the joints in acid one by one and and let the Ungar iron do it's thing:

IMG_2352.JPG

 

By the way, there is a 16 thou brass piece under the front edge of the Falcon jig motor.....When Noose inspects your car, you best be on your best behavior :)


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#17 Jaak

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 08:33 AM

Heya Pablo, I was busy racing this weekend.

Thanks for trimming the weight of the driver Maestro Pablo he looks a lot better, yes it's a he. :hi: 

Also an interesting way to assure clearance is proper, not something I can do on my Jig though (Retro Pro)

 

Following with great interest  :good: 

 


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#18 Pablo

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 03:02 PM

Cool, Jaak. 

I didn't put the brass piece under the motor to make the car clear - everything should clear .050 with it sitting right on the deck.

It was just an extra precaution to guarantee the front edge would not end up even a hair below the level of the chassis.

 

I don't understand why you can't get the clearance you want with your jig. Let's address that issue when you have time.

 

Front axle in place, the center is .45 above the deck, same as the rear.  Guide lead is about .245, same as my first car. 

Front .063 chunk is 1" by 0.6" and backagra was narrowed to 1.36" so as not to interfere with the movement of the body.

Rails are going to be single .063 wire.  The rear 90 degree bend goes right up above the rear axle tube, flush with the bracket sides, to strengthen it.

IMG_2356.JPG


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#19 Bill from NH

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 04:27 PM

I don't understand why you can't get the clearance you want with your jig. Let's address that issue when you have time.

 

 

I think here, Jaak is referring to the four (2 front, 2 rear) axle leveling screws in an RGEO jig. I believe he has SCD & Backtrack chassis jigs, neither of which have those screws.They may be an item unique to later RGEO jigs only. I may be old school, but I like jig wheels better. :)


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Bill Fernald

If a chicken coop has 4 doors, does that make it a sedan?


#20 Pablo

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 04:59 PM

Oh, now I understand, thanks Bill. Jig wheels would be a thousand times easier that this method, believe me.

But I don't own any .900 OD jig wheels in both 1/8 and 3/32 :laugh2:

And I don't plan on making a lot of Kurtis cars, either :o


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#21 Pablo

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 12:35 AM

Rails 101:  Tack solder first, then double check for perfection before finalizing the joints:

Rail uprights flush to bracket and axle tubes ? check.

IMG_2367.JPG

Left rear rail flat on deck and snug against the alignment pin ? check.

IMG_2376.JPG

Right rear on deck and snug ? check.

IMG_2378.JPG

Both rails flat on deck up front ? check.

IMG_2383.JPG

Front axle adjustment screws in perfect alignment ? check.

IMG_2392.JPG

Front brass chunk centered, flat, straight, flatter side down, and positioned perfectly ? check.

IMG_2396.JPG

Jig motor perfectly centered, straight, and flat on deck ? check.

IMG_2402.JPG

 

My cars "get beaten" regularly in races all over the world by great builders who don't sweat small details like I do, Jaak. Precision is just my personal choice, nothing more.  After you watch the Steube video, you'll understand.  Nobody can judge or predict which concepts and techniques will work for you.  I look forward to seeing you win a proxy round soon, Jaak.  Besting some of the world's most competitive slot car builders in a proxy event is something just a few people on this planet have ever done.  But when it happens, well, let's just say, you will know when you get there. :)


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#22 Jaak

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 12:56 PM

It is not if but when  :sun_bespectacled: 

Bill was completely correct in his explanation. I have a SCD 1/32 and a Retro Pro chassis Jig and recently acquired a Honey Comb jewelers Jig.

 

Totally forgot about the DVD will shoot Keith a mail again and ask him to send it to you.

I am with you on the precision Pablo, only thing different it takes more effort to reach precision but that is a matter of time and practice.

Thank you for doing the effort to photograph each step of your checks and the accompanied explanations, this helps a lot.
It may seem as totally obvious but many things do in hindsight.

You know what they say "Hindsight has clear vision"


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#23 Pablo

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Posted 15 October 2014 - 01:04 PM

As it turns out, a Chicagoland .040 brackagra can slip completely underneath the bracket face with a couple thou to spare.

So, I soldered on a piece of 1/8 brass angle a hair narrower than the inside of the bracket, about 1/16 in back of the front edge.

I'll solder the angle up against the inside face, connecting brackagra to bracket. This way the brackagra is able to sit at ground zero.

I'll also solder pieces of angle from brackagra up the bracket sides.

IMG_2409.JPG

 

Brackagra is secured to rails and bracket, and everything is braced for heavy battle.  Joints here are merely tacked, rough and ugly until I can get it out of the jig and re-solder everything that needs it.  Jersey John says you can never overbrace :D although I'm well aware my rear ends are way overbuilt :aggressive: Jaak, I'm showing you this ugly bracket work because Idon't want anything flexing in my motor box area.  I'm also willing to spend extra effort to ensure nothing ever breaks.  Even if it did, redundancy in the design will allow the car to continue instead of failing. 

 

The wire pieces with goofy bends are .063 which connect the rails to the bracket, brace the bracket sides and axle tube.

It's bigger wire than it needs to be, but by being same size as the rails it creates a perfect nest for a pair of .047 braces that do triple duty by securing brackagra, rails, bracket, and axle tubes.  Simple "L" braces strengthen the insides of the tubes, bracket sides, and top of the bracket face.  I know it looks sloppy right now, but that will soon change  :D

IMG_2450.JPG


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#24 Pablo

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Posted 15 October 2014 - 09:22 PM

Chicagoland .040 steel tongue, shortened to .74".  Hole filed out just a little for free rotation of the flag post.  All surfaces (including edges) wet sanded.  Flat, true, square, tinned, and centerlines scribed on both sides for perfect alignment.

IMG_2458.JPG

IMG_2477.JPG


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#25 Jaak

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 03:06 AM

Heya Pablo,


Thank you for the next installment, is the Bracket face the side where the motor is attached? and what is a Backagra?

Nice amount of bracing you got going there at the back, I like the idea of scribing the centerlines.
Will do this from now on, I did mine by eyes only. (as everything else on the car)

I am losing you on what you mean here:

As it turns out, a Chicagoland .040 brackagra can slip completely underneath the bracket face with a couple thou to spare.

So, I soldered on a piece of 1/8 brass angle a hair narrower than the inside of the bracket, about 1/16 in back of the front edge.

I'll solder the angle up against the inside face, connecting brackagra to bracket. This way the brackagra is able to sit at ground zero.

I'll also solder pieces of angle from brackagra up the bracket sides.

Jaak


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#26 Pablo

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 11:47 AM

Correct, the front of the bracket where the motor attaches is called the face.

The brass plate that braces the bottoms of the bracket, adding weight down low (shown in the photo on post 18 and the new photos below) is the brackagra.

 

I align my tongue by eye also, but when the scribe marks are together, no doubt in your mind it is perfectly centered.

 

Look at these photos and tell me you are no longer "lost"  :) :

IMG_2483.JPG

(those gaps where the rails are will get filled)

IMG_2480.JPG

 

Brass angle pieces on all 3 sides at the bottom attach the brackagra to the bracket:

IMG_2491.JPG

 


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#27 Jaak

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 01:24 PM

10-4 Pablo.....Roger that ... copy.... check....comprendo... "unlost"      :good:

Learned a new word and I like it.
I have used something like that on another build from me but there was no hole cut out for the crown nor was it needed.
It was a simple thick brass plate to reinforce the chassis and have the weight at the right place.

The construction you made seems very bullet proof, I like the use of the angle pieces on the inside of the bracket reinforcing it to the brackagra.
(see i just incorporated brackagra in the text for the first time in my life)

I just realized I have no "old soldering" motor so please do not bin the old motor, it will be nice to use it as a setup motor.
 


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#28 Pablo

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 07:53 PM

The motor in your Jaak Bardahl racecar has loose, burnt looking wires from overheating, probably caused by having both holes choked off.  It is a perfect candidate for a jig motor.  I'll send an extra one also when I send the cars.

 

The chassis is about 70% done, today I cleaned and WD-40 protected it, then set it aside.  I need to take a week off and go make some $ :)


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#29 bluecars

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 09:05 PM

:laugh2: MONEY??? WHAT'S THAT? All I have is slot cars and parts. :sarcastic_hand:


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#30 MSwiss

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 09:59 PM

Jaak,
FWIW,if you haven't figured it out already, it's called a Brackagra because it stiffens up the (motor) bracket.
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#31 Jaak

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 01:56 AM

Pablo... No rest for the wicked  :to_become_senile: 

Haha hope you have a good vacation Sir!

Good to know I have my first Jig motor now... just reminded myself....E-Mail Keeeiiittthhhhhhh...



Thanks Mike,

I suspected that might be the reason, thank you for confirming this.

 


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#32 Pablo

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 07:05 PM

I placed a 5 thou spacer to set up the tongue angle, even though mandated clearance is level .050 front and rear.  The rear wheels usually wear quicker than the fronts, so naturally the car is (usually) going to be set up with the rear a little higher than the front.  Jaak, remember, a little too much "up tilt" is never bad; a little "down tilt" is always a recipe for disaster.

IMG_2537.JPG

 

Line everything up, slather it in acid, apply some solder, and make sure it's aligned:

IMG_2540.JPG

 

Mine turned out 5 thou off, so I filed 5 thou brass off the long side and called it perfect :D

IMG_2544.JPG

IMG_2556.JPG


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#33 Jaak

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 03:43 AM

That looks neat Pablo  :victory:


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#34 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 08:09 AM

Pablo - you always got the coolest stuff, thanks for the sweet pics...5 thou washer - what is it really used for?  looks lightweight, guide spacer?


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#35 Bill from NH

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 08:44 AM

Yes, that's a guide spacer. They came/come in different thicknesses.


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If a chicken coop has 4 doors, does that make it a sedan?


#36 Pablo

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 08:48 AM

As far as I know, those are the only metal 5 thou spacers available, and I don't like Teflon spacers. They are a Kelly Racing product.

 

Anybody who has watched The Steube Video.......blah blah :sarcastic_hand:


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#37 Pablo

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 02:47 PM

Jaaaaaak, I've been wanting to try a new experiment with ATF (automatic transmission fluid).

Wherever I don't want solder to flow, like hinge wires, I put ATF.  Other guys do the same with White Out, Sharpie markers, etc.

Sometimes when the chassis is on the jig, solder seeps underneath and makes a mess.

So I tried a couple drops on the bottom of the .063 brass chunk and smoothed it out into a fine film with my finger.

IMG_2557.JPG

Then back into the jig, finalized the main rail solder joints, and, Bingo, it worked perfectly.

No more solder creep and I saved myself some trouble.

IMG_2563.JPG

 

I put the caliper in the body to determine how wide the uprights could be, figured they need to be <1.100" wide at the top of the axle, and planned accordingly.

IMG_2571.JPG

 

Piano wire front axle, that way in a hard crash it will bend instead of snap like a drill blank and is easily bent back.  The .055 and .047 upright joints on the chunk are finalized, but the axle joints are just tacked.  I was planning to wire wrap them but changed my mind - I have a better plan for later.

IMG_2568.JPG

 

Note the pencil marks on the jig - that is 1.400" (body width/max chassis width) and shows me where the outer limits of my body mounts need to end up.  Since I don't want anything on the chassis to touch the body except the body mounts, everything else must be well within those lines. You can see the chunk assembly meets that requirement no problemo. 

IMG_2565.JPG

 

The uprights are also well within my "self-imposed" parameters:

IMG_2573.JPG

 

 

 

 

 


 

 

 


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#38 Pablo

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 06:20 PM

New experiment:  .032 brass rod pieces form fitted to brace wire uprights to front axle, as an alternative to wire wrapping. 

IMG_2583.JPG

IMG_2578.JPG

 

Front axle assembly (minus wheels) is now complete, Jaak.  Steube can do this in an hour; it takes me, uh, a little longer :laugh2:


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#39 Pablo

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 08:29 PM

All motor bracket wires trimmed, all joints re-fluxed and re-soldered.  Not pretty right now, but, hey, it's a race car.

Jig motor has served it's purpose, and has returned to the Steube WD-40 bath.

IMG_2599.JPG


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#40 Bill from NH

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 09:24 PM

You know, in order to test those .032 brass rod pieces in the front, you gotta run the chassis into a couple walls, otherwise how will you know their strength? :dash2:  :diablo:


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Bill Fernald

If a chicken coop has 4 doors, does that make it a sedan?


#41 Pablo

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 10:11 PM

That's funny, Bill :laugh2:  No need to test it; I simply "know" it is strong :aggressive: The main rails will bend long before the front axle or motor bracket fail :good:

75% done:

IMG_2601.JPG


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#42 Bill from NH

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 03:05 AM

I guess I still like wire wrapping. My old friend, Danny O'Neill, used to find some unique areas on his chassis to wire-wrap. He's the same guy who built a full sidewinder using a Mura B-can by putting his rear axle through the back magnet. :) .


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If a chicken coop has 4 doors, does that make it a sedan?


#43 Jaak

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 05:30 PM

Looks very interesting Pablo, looks like you used plenty of heat and the solder flowed nice.

Nice tip about the ATF fluid will keep it in mind, also a very interesting way to obtain more strength/cohesion then the normal way.

The bends on the wires are also all very crisp and straight and that is something I will be able to improve upon.

It is really starting to look the part and am already looking forward to the next installment.  :clapping:


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#44 Pablo

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 06:16 PM

Bill, I may try wrapping this .032 brass rod on a later experiment - it's pliable enough. For now, this front axle assembly is plenty strong.  :aggressive:

Jaak, the bracket doesn't need more strength, so I filled the gap between the rail and brackagra with .032 brass rod pieces and pooled in some 60/40 solder to make it look SANO

IMG_2612.JPG

I thought, may as well bend the rod pieces up about 93 degrees and snake them up the back of the bracket sides as redundant braces.  Not really necessary, but they weigh next to nothing and are down low, so "why not" ?  :)

IMG_2616.JPG

 

I don't know why, but my close up photos make everything look like it has a ton of solder.  In person, it ain't so.  It has a reasonable amount for a race chassis;  no more, no less :)

 


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#45 Pablo

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 07:16 PM

There are a lot of things going on in this photo, Jaaaaaaaaaaaak. :dance3:

IMG_2626.JPG

 

Everything before this was pretty much standard procedure - build right, build strong, keep the weight low, let the chassis flex but make the motor box rigid, balance the weight, make every part as perfect as possible, don't let the chassis hinder body movement, etc. etc. I think you have learned all that. Now, the plumber rails - this is where the little speed secrets are.  It's just plain ol' hard work.

1) I made the wire uprights for the front axle run back down the main rail as far as possible - almost all the way to the rear of the chunk - for a good reason - it's easier to solder wire to wire in at least 1/2" lengths - that way you can let the solder flow halfway, stop, re-flux, solder the other half, etc.  You'll get it once you see the Steube video.  Having said that, I had to place the plumber hinge (3/32 tubing) near the back of the chunk. This is the way I planned it all along.  A piece of 3/32 tube spaces it back the correct distance from the back of the tongue to ensure the .055 plumber wire rails don't get snagged on those uprights. Hope that makes sense :o  At this point, the 3/32 dummy piece is soldered home to the steel tongue and the chunk - it serves as both a spacer and a brace.

2) The plumber rails are bent and angled down immediately after exiting the hinge - this bend is critical - the rails must lay absolutely flat - this takes some doing to get it right. First, make about 1/4" 90 degree bends in the wire - don't waste time trying to make the angle perfect yet - then make the down angles.  The goal is to make those angles so the 90 degree 1/4" bends enter the 3/32 tubes at the bottom of the holes.  .055 wires inside .063 holes leaves some room for slop - you want the wires to sit at the bottom of that slop - that way the plumbers can lift, not droop. If you look at the photo closely, you will see mine are perfect. Once you have the little bend perfect, now go back and make the 90 degree angles perfect - then re-check them.  You will only get one chance at this, Bunky - make it right first time, or else it just gets more painful.  :laugh2:  :crazy:

3)  Not only are the wires at the bottoms of the hinge hole, they need to be centered fore and aft - that way the body mounts can go forward a hair, and back a hair, from your final placement.

4)  The wire studs in the jig are set at 1.400" but I need to remember I'm going to install .015" thick brass strips outside the rails as body mounts.  When I finalize the width of the rails I'll set a piece of dummy .015 strip between rail and jig studs.

 

I cut the back ends of the plumber rails slightly ahead of the brackagra ears.  The JK Indy 2" body clip holes will be positioned 15/16" and 2 15/16", respectively, behind the center of the front axle. The .015 brass strip body mounts will extend 3/16" past the holes on both ends.  Some guys use computer programs to plan all this stuff, Jaak.  I just make rough notes, sketches, and calculate rail widths.

IMG_2627.JPG


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#46 Pablo

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 09:53 PM

.015 brass strip body mounts, 2.375" long, .185" tall. Straight, square, and flat.

IMG_2628.JPG

 

Jaak, I held the hinge tube in it's place with a finger, the plumber rail against the brass strip and jig studs with a dull X-Acto blade, and prayed everything was aligned.

Acid flux on the joint, some 60/40 on the Ungar tip, and it flowed quickly !! Touch and lift !

IMG_2631.JPG


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#47 Pablo

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 10:24 PM

Jaak, every time you solder long lengths of brass to wire, it's going to warp.

In this case, my body mount strips soldered to .055 plumber rails were a success, but of course they warped - I knew they would.

I bent 'em back straight, and in the morning I'll check them again before installing them.

I will not tolerate warpage on main rails, but on plumber rails I can forgive a little imperfection - they are going to flop and wiggle all over the place anyway :)

IMG_2633.JPG


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#48 Pablo

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 04:50 PM

Body clip holes on flexi's are usually .063 - I prefer .055, and these turned out a perfect 2.00" apart so I don't have to tweak the clips - they fit perfect.

IMG_2637.JPG

 

Hinge is soldered home up against the dummy tube and my body mount/plumber rails are ready to be set. I'm hoping for a width of about 1.385.

.032 front connector wire is absolutely a perfect drop in and snug fit, and only the left side is soldered on.  The only alignments that matter on the first joint of the connector is, the plumbers must be flat on deck and up tight and flat against the jig pins, the connector must be relaxed, flat and straight across.  The hinge wire position in the hinge tube matters not at this point.

IMG_2639.JPG

 

Now comes the "moment of truth" for my plumber assembly, Jaaaaaak, both hinge wires now need to be bottomed out, centered fore and aft, and a perfect 90 degree angle (straight into the tube).  Both rails need to be flat on deck and flat against the pins.  The chassis must be centered perfectly in the jig and flat as possible. There are a lot of things that can go wrong here so I'll spend some time checking everything twice before tacking the right side of the front wire connector.   As I said before, Sir Jaak, being as critical and precise as I tend to be is totally unnecessary and I get beat by guys who just slam 'em together, all the time. The most important thing here is, make it legal and let that body wiggle, lift, and tilt a little.  More in the rear, less in front.


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#49 Pablo

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 07:54 PM

Centered the left side in the bottom of the hinge tube and taped 'er down.  Jaak, you can still adjust it a little even after the masking tape is applied, if necessary.

IMG_2640.JPG

 

Then I centered the right side and taped. Triple checked everything.  It doesn't matter if the connecting wire is perfectly in it's place - what is important is for it to be relaxed and it the right place to connect the plumber rails in perfect unison.  In my case, no matter how hard I tried to make the connector sit perfectly, it still rode up a hair - no matter, the 60/40 solder fills gaps well - I'll solder her where she lays......

IMG_2648.JPG

 

Front connector turned out well. Rails lay flat and width in front turned out to be 1.375, not bad. This must be my lucky day because the rails flared out towards the rear and are close to 1.390 at the rear clip hole.

IMG_2653.JPG

 

I got lucky again, first try bending the .032 rear connector wire it made 1.386

IMG_2656.JPG

 

I was hoping the rear connector would do double-duty as the down stop for the plumbers.  Close, but no cigar.  Since they turned out well and both sides are now connected as true as possible, I didn't want to mess with a good thing, so I merely soldered another .032 wire piece to it that is flush on top of the .063 main rails as a downstop.

IMG_2660.JPG

 

Alignment checks:

Rails flat ? check

Tilts up freely ? check

No binding ? check

Do they remain on deck when the chassis is raised up ? maybe 3 thou in the rear, max, check (too much droop and a good tech inspector will bust you)

Is the width <1.400 all the way ? check.

 

So far, so good. Now I have to govern the amount of vertical lift, side to side slop, and rear end wiggle. :)

 


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#50 Pablo

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 06:45 PM

Jaak, to govern the amounts of plumber rail movement, I installed 4 short rail spacer pieces outside the main rails.  A pair of .047 wire in front and a pair of .063 rod in back. No science here, just using what works to give me the movements I'm looking for.

IMG_2664.JPG

IMG_2673.JPG

 

A pair of .032 up stops.  I raised the rails up 25 thou at the rear and soldered the stops to the main rails so they rest on top of the rear cross connector.  That should give me about, uh, (where did I put that doggone calculator ?) about 25 thou tilt/lift in the rear :laugh2:   Tack first, then check before finalizing the solder joint. I made the stops long and bent a handle to grab on to - I'll cut the excess off later.  Precisely placing little tiny pieces of .032 wire with big meaty shakey fingers on top of .063 wire rails is virtually impossible :dash2: :laugh2:

IMG_2677.JPG

 

In the end, I got exactly what I wanted from my body mount system:

-approx. 10 thou side to side slop

-approx. 25 thou lift/tilt at the rear and approx. 5 thou lift up front.

-some wiggle/tail wag, not much. 

Just right. It worked well on the Deans Van Lines car and it will work on this one (I hope :crazy: )

IMG_2690.JPG

 

Time for a Fowler Deck. Everybody else uses big brass chunks for shaker weights on F1's - I prefer a 15 thou platform sitting at ground zero then adding .032 lead pieces on top of it - the car owner can decide how much and where it's placed.  Since this chassis has a 1" wide bracket, there will be a lot of space to experiment with lead location for tuning purposes. I scribed my desired locations for two tubes.

IMG_2699.JPG

 

Mock up of where a .025 wire topped out inside a .063 tube will protrude in relation to .063 main rails.  Looks like it's right at the top of the rail, but not a hair above it. That way I can bend the wires 90 degrees and have them run down the rails to attach the Fowler Deck.

IMG_2707.JPG

 

Tinned length of .025 wire and .063 brass tube pieces:

IMG_2715.JPG

 

The 25 thou wire inside the tubing wasn't giving me the amount of slop I'm looking for, so I reamed them out to .036. 

IMG_2723.JPG

 

4 thou doesn't sound like much of a change, but when you feel the wire move around in the tube, it is a big difference.

IMG_2724.JPG

 

If this is puzzling to you, Jaak, it will all become quite clear very soon (I hope) :)

 


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