Jump to content




Photo

Changes to Stock Car?


  • Please log in to reply
134 replies to this topic

#1 John C Martin

John C Martin

    J.C Martin

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,058 posts
  • Joined: 02-November 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Smyrna, TN

Posted 19 October 2014 - 05:38 PM

This has been discussed by some ,,we feel it's time..ideal is to get more racers for this class and make a better handling and better looking car with many more body choices..things such as making much the same requirements as the F1 class ..
Front and rear tires diameter .front and rear width ..front and rear under chassis heights..and cutting out fender wells of course..
Chassis restrictions same only moving front axle to adapt 790 min.fronts to .15 thou. Clearance..
With bodies that fit 4 1/2" fender wells only..no high spoilers, just the old stuff to be determined ?
Cutting out the windows with exception of the windshield..would let the stiffer bodies flex and lighten them as well as look realistic ..
This proposal to change needs discussion and input. I'd like every one try and come to Columbia's track Sat. To discuss or post here ,or PM me..
Stockcar's should be the most popular as it was once in flexie..we just need a adjustment in the rules..




#2 stemmy

stemmy

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 973 posts
  • Joined: 26-September 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Easton, PA

Posted 19 October 2014 - 05:53 PM

Good luck. The windows and tires are good ideas but I don't see them changing. Yesterday at the retro east race at pj , we had 30 entries. It's not really a dying class it's actually growing.
Blair Stem

#3 wicked01

wicked01

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPip
  • 129 posts
  • Joined: 12-June 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cookeville, TN

Posted 19 October 2014 - 06:03 PM

That's one example Stemmy , I have many more were their were only enough to barely race. I think these changes would attract more racers because me personally the way the cars are now is the reason I chose not to race the class .


Casey Dill
 
Posted Image

#4 John C Martin

John C Martin

    J.C Martin

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,058 posts
  • Joined: 02-November 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Smyrna, TN

Posted 19 October 2014 - 06:23 PM

Blair I don't think I'm talking national just our region .past time for a change..Our choice if we make it...
What's not to like, better handling cars ,more body choices . More realistic looking cars..guaranteed more racers!..
PS.. I'm just fine with my cars we just want more racers..Casey 's not the only one who feels that way,obviously many others do to...
But thanks for your input...

#5 stemmy

stemmy

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 973 posts
  • Joined: 26-September 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Easton, PA

Posted 19 October 2014 - 07:09 PM

I think some changes would make them better. What changes would you make.
Blair Stem

#6 Samiam

Samiam

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,028 posts
  • Joined: 18-January 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, NY

Posted 19 October 2014 - 07:12 PM

:to_become_senile:


  • Half Fast and Pat Skeggs like this
Sam Levitch
 
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
Robert Mueller,special council.(2013)
 

#7 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,394 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou

Posted 19 October 2014 - 08:12 PM

Gentlemen, please take note of the text immediately above the thread title, which clearly identifies it as being in the "Retro South" subforum.  If you ever race in Retro South, or plan to, or have something positive to add, your opinion is welcome. If not, please re-read sentence #1.

Moderator.


  • John C Martin likes this
Paul Wolcott

#8 Samiam

Samiam

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,028 posts
  • Joined: 18-January 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, NY

Posted 19 October 2014 - 08:57 PM

:paint2:


  • Half Fast likes this
Sam Levitch
 
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
Robert Mueller,special council.(2013)
 

#9 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,394 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou

Posted 19 October 2014 - 09:24 PM

He is not asking for outside input, Sam.  When he says "This proposal to change needs discussion and input" he means Retro South input, period, otherwise he would have posted it under the IRRA banner instead of the Retro South subforum.  You are 100% welcome to send him a PM on the subject and discuss it to your heart's content.

 

Your statement about IRRA rules needing to be followed to the letter to be called an IRRA class is 100% correct, of course.  I'm sure JC knows that. There is no rule prohibiting raceways from running non-IRRA races, last time I checked. They could call it "JC Stockers"  :D 


  • John C Martin and Danny Zona like this
Paul Wolcott

#10 slotcarone

slotcarone

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,256 posts
  • Joined: 23-January 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dutchess County, NY

Posted 19 October 2014 - 09:28 PM

John there is absolutely nothing wrong with the way the IRRA Stock cars handle. If some people are having trouble getting theirs to handle correctly then ask for help on this forum. IMO there is no reason to amend or change any rules and certainly not because a few can't get their cars right.


  • Samiam and George Blaha like this

Mike Katz

Scratchbuilts forever!!


#11 bluecars

bluecars

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 994 posts
  • Joined: 26-June 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tuskegee, AL

Posted 20 October 2014 - 06:45 AM

:) If that's what it takes to get the numbers up I'm all for it. Nobody is saying you have to change your cars if you don't want to. (except cutting out some windows) I think the main thing is keeping numbers up. Without that nobody races. If it takes running the bodies backwards so be it. Sometimes change is good. I like Retro South even if I don't get a chance to get there often enough. This would not affect my the amount of races I attend but if it brings back any amount of racers I think It's worth it. I'm happy other places are having a good number of racers. We are not. So if change is what it takes I'm all for it. There are to many races being stopping due to lack of racers. GOOD LUCK J.C. Better to do something and race than do nothing and not. My 1.5 cents. :diablo:


  • John C Martin likes this

Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#12 John Streisguth

John Streisguth

    Johnny VW

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,683 posts
  • Joined: 20-November 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bangor, PA

Posted 20 October 2014 - 08:30 AM

Being outside the Retro South area, I won't add my opinion, but a suggestion: what effect would these proposed changes actually have on the cars?  Would they really make enough of a difference to bring up the participation numbers? Quantifying how much of a difference could help people decide what changes should be made. 


"Whatever..."

#13 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,844 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 20 October 2014 - 08:44 AM

We had 30 entries in this class this weekend with the top 4 guys within 2 laps so I don't think the rules need changing at all.  We killed the track records too for this class.


  • George Blaha and ejgehrken like this

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#14 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,844 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 20 October 2014 - 09:20 AM

PS:  At the last race we had 29 entries and records were broken there too. 


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#15 Gator Bob

Gator Bob

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,009 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 11
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:.

Posted 20 October 2014 - 11:57 AM

Facts - :dirol:

To keep your car count boasting and perceived success in perspective. :scratch_one-s_head:  

 

New York metropolitan area, also known as Retro East

Population ((2013))

  • Total - 23,484,225
  • Density - 1,876 sq miles

 

.... so that means you might be packed in like Sardines and all your 'stock cars' are one in a million builds. :shok:   :laugh2:

 

 

 

All of Florida, also known as GRRR. :sun_bespectacled:  :beach:

  • Population: 19.55 million  (2013)
  • Area: 65,755 sq miles 

Million year old Reptiles roam and Helicopters or Air Boats needed to take the short cuts.


- WDzqYLKlZcbyIJAbLTxE.png

                            Bob Israelite


#16 BillyBob

BillyBob

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 175 posts
  • Joined: 08-April 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:10SE

Posted 20 October 2014 - 12:02 PM

We had 30 entries in this class this weekend with the top 4 guys within 2 laps so I don't think the rules need changing at all.  We killed the track records too for this class.

 

We had a great race had 7 racers show up
Cookeville Raceway & Hobbies

 

 

Noose and Sam,

I think this is the problem. For some reason a retro series starts good in the South but peters out.

 

Plus what Gator Bob said.


  • John C Martin likes this
Bill Nolen

Staying in touch with my insanity really is the only way
It's a jungle out there, kiddies
Have a very fruitful day

#17 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,844 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 20 October 2014 - 12:08 PM

Forget the counts and just note that they run just fine.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#18 Danny Zona

Danny Zona

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,083 posts
  • Joined: 27-July 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Holly Hill (DaytonaBch), FL

Posted 20 October 2014 - 12:27 PM

Maybe RetroSouth can run IRRA rules as normal. Then run JC ("oldman") stockers before or after the IRRA races as a bonus race. See if it draws entries or not. That is of course if tracks wanted to.

Just a suggestion. I don't run stockers so I don't know much about them. They do look cool running on my home track tri-oval at our GRRR races.
KellyRacing (loved by few hated by many)💯

R-Geo (Bad A$$ retro kits)💪

Mosseti flexi-chassi fanatic 👍👍

Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!!

#19 John C Martin

John C Martin

    J.C Martin

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,058 posts
  • Joined: 02-November 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Smyrna, TN

Posted 20 October 2014 - 01:44 PM

It does not matter to me how many you have in retro east .,maybe you don't have any other hobbies or things to do over there,,not so in the south.LOL..
Tracks are maybe farther apart here,,maybe economy is better there?
Thing is if we want to change our rules for stockcar we'll do it ! Call it whatever we want ..bonus race? Whatever..
We have 4 tracks in Tenn. With basically new racers...a new set of rules set for a better handling car (IMO) will tempt more people to race them..
Most of the people now that race them here are very good at it,,we need no help at all or advice...But be truthful the class has been handicapped from the start ,with track clearances in front ,large front tires,,thick bodies..and basically 2 or 3 bodies that are competitive
..
WHY..
Why cut out the windows ,,give body more flex, lighter,they will handle better!
... stock cars didn't have windows,,maybe it was colder up north..?
The smaller tires of course lower the center of gravity,,lighter..another place to run your used canam tires.
Even if you didn't widen the diameter out to 3 1/4" .with the smaller diameter tires you'll have less chance of tire rub front and rear..corrected that to 790 not 750 fronts. By The way..
A much better selection of bodies can and would be ran added to what's ran if you want to win ( Talladega or Daytona maybe charger)
I'll race anything and try and like it..but if it can be made better for new people I'll do it!
Once again 15 thou. Clearance front as is F1..40 thou. Back as F1 ...3 1/4 width as F1... Cut out windows like a real stockcar..
Stock-cars ( NASCAR ) a little later ( I don't know what year )had rounded fender wells ).. Sat. Night Stockcars always had cut fender wells..! More popular in the south, than north...
Time for a rules change in our region if not yours and your happy so be it ..we here are ready for a change before it's deader than it is...
I can see the light ,it looks very dim..so we will try a rules change..If it helps are turnout that's all that matters!
This was in the retro south forum. Why do you others except maybe NOOSE even care?? Jay guard and I months ago have both discussed some of these changes with noose and cheater..
Tired of talking about it ..we'll call it Real Retro Stockcars...
  • Pablo likes this

#20 ejgehrken

ejgehrken

    On The Lead Lap

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 334 posts
  • Joined: 07-May 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southington, CT

Posted 20 October 2014 - 02:27 PM

It seems like your problem is that you aren't getting enough entries to make the stock car class worthwhile. Why not switch out Stock Car with GT Coupe in your series? It will likely get more entries since racers can use their can am cars with coupe bodies on them. You also don't have worry about generating a new set of rules as this is a pretty well attended class in each series/event its run at.   


Eric Gehrken
Gehrken Retro Chassis
2015-16 Retro East Overall Champion
2015-16 Retro East Constructor's Champion
2013-14 New England Retro Racing Overall Champion

#21 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,844 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 20 October 2014 - 02:40 PM

John, REAL Retro Stockcars were what the current rules were based on.  Straight the old NCC rules.

 

Do what you guys want.  I just wanted to reflect that they are great just the way they are.  They are the hardest class to drive out of all of them.  Good, something should be.  That said, it's a growing class out here and has been ever sine we stopped running ovals. 

 

Eric's suggestion on Coupes is a great one if you are looking for attendance. 


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#22 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,897 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 20 October 2014 - 02:51 PM

Tired of talking about it ..we'll call it Real Retro Stockcars...

Change whatever you want but at least call it Lowrider Real Retro Stockcars or Cafeteria Real Retro Stockcars.

.790 tires?? Lol

When this class was proposed, I was for 1" or least 7/8" tires.

You still have to talk guys into investing in a single purpose, long chassis, that will probably cost them at least $100.

Of course, unless you come up with 4" Real Retro Stockcars.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#23 John C Martin

John C Martin

    J.C Martin

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,058 posts
  • Joined: 02-November 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Smyrna, TN

Posted 20 October 2014 - 02:56 PM

That may work Eric ,,but this is the south and we do love NASCAR..
I think some of it is about the look to some ,,ugly Daytona bodies not much better Talladega 's ford fairlanes don't fit real well ...everything fits with the alterations and looks better..and will handle better to attract newer racers..
I've seen some very nice looking drag type bodies with much more detail in the mold..
The class turned into a same as F1 and canam ( ti 22 ). 2 best bodies for each..( boring )
Let's add some real looks to this class..Aero IMO does not play into this class at 120 gram +
Body choices are immense...
Meeting Sat. At Columbia track. Or PM me for my Cell #
Mike your kind of right but canam aren't scale 15thou clearance in front same for F1. Why are they that low when Stockcars are 50 thou.
Makes sense to me a easier to drive car that looks more real with better looking bodies that will handle better will attract more participation ,, that's all I'm saying...make sense to you?

#24 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,844 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 20 October 2014 - 03:07 PM

John, FYI a Parma Lola T163 came in 1st and 3rd this weekend vs. all the TI22s.

 

The Older style Charger worked just fine on the big Engleman at Speedzone and even better than the Torino or Cyclone or Daytona.

 

At Port Jeff the Cyclones were the better choice.

 

You can always go with the squashed Electric Dreams Mercury.  SoCal uses that in an Anglewinder Stock Car class.  I think JK just came out with the same type of squashed Stock Car body.

 

The manufacturers aren't just going to make more bodies for this class if there is no money to be made in it.  Not will those making IRRA legal ones, well at least Parma, make a 10 thou version vs. the 15 called called for.


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#25 Gator Bob

Gator Bob

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,009 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 11
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:.

Posted 20 October 2014 - 03:08 PM

Sounds like a cool class J.C.

 

Because I like Stock Cars ..... I'm likin' the sound of an 'Outlaw' class.

Southern style.

 

Body -

As approved - new models as added.

Windows - side cut out -  optional 

Cut wheel wells - original wheelbase centerline only. 

Roof height rule

1/2 Rear spoiler - optional

Tail panel - cutout to 1/8" edge

Flag/clips may show - must be black - no wire showing.

 

Tires -

No change - (nice full wheel wells)

 

Chassis -

3" wide - pans/rails/body mounting

3 1/8" total (bead hub)

up to 1" guide lead

Ride height .015/.040

 

Motors -

Add PS/PD and 4002FK


  • John C Martin likes this

- WDzqYLKlZcbyIJAbLTxE.png

                            Bob Israelite


#26 John C Martin

John C Martin

    J.C Martin

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,058 posts
  • Joined: 02-November 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Smyrna, TN

Posted 20 October 2014 - 03:16 PM

Sounds like a cool class J.C.
 
Because I like Stock Cars ..... I'm likin' the sound of an 'Outlaw' class.
Southern style.
 
Body -
As approved - new models as added.
Windows - side cut out -  optional 
Cut wheel wells - original wheelbase centerline only. 
Roof height rule
1/2 Rear spoiler - optional
Tail panel - cutout to 1/8" edge
Flag/clips may show - must be black - no wire showing.
 
Tires -
No change - (nice full wheel wells)
 
Chassis -
3" wide - pans/rails/body mounting
3 1/8" total (bead hub)
up to 1" guide lead
Ride height .015/.040
 
Motors -
Add PS/PD and 4002FK

.
Nice Bob !!
Noose I can make a brick work as many can ..but it's harder to bring some people to this class with what's here now..

#27 Samiam

Samiam

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,028 posts
  • Joined: 18-January 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, NY

Posted 20 October 2014 - 03:43 PM

OK,

I took back my 2 cents.


Sam Levitch
 
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
Robert Mueller,special council.(2013)
 

#28 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,844 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 20 October 2014 - 03:48 PM

Well if you go with Bob's idea for PDs I got a great deal for you on some.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#29 John C Martin

John C Martin

    J.C Martin

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,058 posts
  • Joined: 02-November 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Smyrna, TN

Posted 20 October 2014 - 03:57 PM

Well if you go with Bob's idea for PDs I got a great deal for you on some.

Right me to ..and I don't fish either ,,( sinkers )
At least you guys can put them inside snowballs and throw them...we just throw them without the snow...ouch..

#30 Bud Greene

Bud Greene

    On The Lead Lap

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 409 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Saraland, AL

Posted 20 October 2014 - 04:21 PM

Hey Jc maybe just a lighter body and cut fenders would make a world of difference or how about adding a Flexi class like Gtp or 4inch nascar. Just about everyone has a stamped steel chassis in there box

#31 Danny Zona

Danny Zona

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,083 posts
  • Joined: 27-July 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Holly Hill (DaytonaBch), FL

Posted 20 October 2014 - 04:23 PM

I've saved all my puppy dogs and blueprinted them. Just in case I run in non IRRA events. Ha-ha-ha... I kid, I kid.
KellyRacing (loved by few hated by many)💯

R-Geo (Bad A$$ retro kits)💪

Mosseti flexi-chassi fanatic 👍👍

Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!!

#32 Brinkley47

Brinkley47

    A winner is a loser who gave it one more try

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 650 posts
  • Joined: 18-August 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Murfreesboro, TN

Posted 20 October 2014 - 05:31 PM

I think we just need more races here JC. Rules are good. Just not enough races here to keep people's interest in the retro scene. I would run FCR if that was popular. With the lack of tracks in our area, racing has about died here. But it looks like that is going to change this winter. Looking forward to it.

I say we make it 5.5 inch stock cars with .900 tires. The worse handling the better for me. Bring the driver back into it for those of us who can't build their way out of a paper sack.
  • Pat Skeggs likes this
Will Brinkley
willbrinkley@gmail.com

#33 slotcarone

slotcarone

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,256 posts
  • Joined: 23-January 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dutchess County, NY

Posted 20 October 2014 - 06:22 PM

John no matter what you do with the rules there will always be racers complaining their car doesn't handle and there will always be the few that make their cars work well and win most of the races. IMO changing the rules slightly will not get you anymore entries. The rules are not the problem.


  • Tim Neja and Samiam like this

Mike Katz

Scratchbuilts forever!!


#34 Eddie Fleming

Eddie Fleming

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 714 posts
  • Joined: 27-April 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fayetteville, GA

Posted 20 October 2014 - 07:23 PM

I tend to agree with Mike the rules are not the problem. I also agree the look of the cars is a problem. Outlaw the Daytona and the Talladega, (Nascar did). Then try to bring some scale appearance into the class. The cars should be painted to look the part of a stock car rather than just shoot the grill and everything in some color. More bodies would be nice but I don't know what is being produced. I don't like the idea of smaller tires as the proportion to the body is not correct. If you want to lower the chassis without changing the tire size I could see that. I even like Mike's idea of one inch or 7/8 tires.

 

Now if you want to create a new class modeled after short track Saturday night racing in the 60"s that could be very cool. 

 

I say this having not built a stock car yet, so take it for what it is worth.


  • Samiam likes this
Eddie Fleming

#35 John C Martin

John C Martin

    J.C Martin

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,058 posts
  • Joined: 02-November 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Smyrna, TN

Posted 20 October 2014 - 08:21 PM

That's correct Eddie what is needed is cool ...would be too..
Thanks for the discussion pros and cons..Let's hear more from the south.It's ours to loose or change..what'll it be ?
I just want the BoD..to be open minded to the fact it could be better ,,,but their not..kinda like Mt. Rushmore, Old guys that won't budge..L and LOLs....
Maybe Not that everything I spoke of should be done but some can be done,,
I just threw everything out there..
There's going to be some to disagree with any change, that's fine ,I'd race them to with 29-30 entry's no problem, anything..Happy Happy Happy..
4 1/2 flexie was at one time the class of choice,,.that will maybe happen again..IF...
WILL your right we will have 3 -4 local tracks real soon,,very good tracks with nearly all new racers..It's up to the experienced to bring the new-be's along..to what ever class's..easier the better...best looking the better..Or it will be 4 1/2 flexie or worse FCR. Bricks..
Mike we have to find the answer and Quick..

#36 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,394 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou

Posted 20 October 2014 - 08:44 PM

I just want the BoD..to be open minded to the fact it could be better ,,,

JC, I hope you know IRRA isn't going to change their rules just because attendance is low in certain areas.

There are very good and specific reasons why they made the rules the way they did.

The only way this could work for you is like DZ's idea - a completely different non-IRRA class.

 

As far as your ideas go, I'm all for it.  My personal tastes are like yours, lowered wider bodies, no windows, wider widths, smaller wheels, no weight rules, etc. I'd love to build a car like that.  Might as well make them anglewinders, too :D   But this is an IRRA forum and you might want to think about starting a new thread, or moving this existing one (Greg would have to do that for you), here:

http://slotblog.net/...2-retro-racing/

 

By doing so, it would not only allow, but encourage input from racers from other regions other than just Retro South.


  • John C Martin likes this
Paul Wolcott

#37 Gator Bob

Gator Bob

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,009 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 11
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:.

Posted 20 October 2014 - 08:47 PM

It's not the rules.

 

It's probably not the set up.

 

It's what you and the people at your track find fun. Stock Car, S/C Plus, Outlaw ... whatever... works at your track or region.

 

I 'throw'd out' what I think would be a cool car and just might try one like it for that reason alone. Cut the body, widen the wheels, easy. 

 

I'm Free   :D   


- WDzqYLKlZcbyIJAbLTxE.png

                            Bob Israelite


#38 John C Martin

John C Martin

    J.C Martin

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,058 posts
  • Joined: 02-November 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Smyrna, TN

Posted 20 October 2014 - 09:12 PM

Right again Gator. And I did make 3 cars so far. The owner in Columbia loved them...as has everyone else..
65 and 67 chevelles and a charger and a Fairlane will follow..talk about sweet handling!! And realistic Sat. Night at the fairgrounds cars..drivers net,,exhaust out the fenders,,detailed 3d interior. Floor shift..(what). That can be seen ( no windows ) No noose but best I can do....handles as good as any nats.winning 4 1/2 flexie cars I ever won with in pro classes!!
Try it you'll see..
PS Barto F1 axle makes it a easy switch with the front wheels..Not 15 thou. But closer than 50 thou.clearance.

#39 John C Martin

John C Martin

    J.C Martin

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,058 posts
  • Joined: 02-November 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Smyrna, TN

Posted 21 October 2014 - 07:18 AM

I love you Pablo,,not completely different class ,just modifying just like antique car tags 20 years or older here.The new racing crowds are younger than most of us ,,the Retro years could change to what is somewhat recognizeable to them ?
Let's face it the major majority of retro racers are us old kids. just look at pictures or the guy next to you..New-be's coming on haven't even seen a Talladega or Daytona ,,it's only in Our memories..
Minor changes : cut the fender wells ,still run 812 tires front and rear,this will not allow a slammed body,,No chopped top bodies,,no spoilers added . windowless except windshield, lower front to 15 thou.,weight stays at 120 grams..
2nd stage : widen the wheel base to whatever. Plus 1st change
3rd stage : 790 tires front , 812 or 790 rear at maybe 40 thou. Rear clearance..plus 1st and 2nd stages
I'm for any of this..
Retro south guys what'll it be? Old saying is do you use it or loose it..?

#40 John C Martin

John C Martin

    J.C Martin

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,058 posts
  • Joined: 02-November 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Smyrna, TN

Posted 21 October 2014 - 07:34 AM

I think we just need more races here JC. Rules are good. Just not enough races here to keep people's interest in the retro scene. I would run FCR if that was popular. With the lack of tracks in our area, racing has about died here. But it looks like that is going to change this winter. Looking forward to it.
I say we make it 5.5 inch stock cars with .900 tires. The worse handling the better for me. Bring the driver back into it for those of us who can't build their way out of a paper sack.


Will you and me may be the only ones there. Not good for the raceway..
I'm a firm believer if the car is easier to drive there will be more racers..

#41 Danny Zona

Danny Zona

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,083 posts
  • Joined: 27-July 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Holly Hill (DaytonaBch), FL

Posted 21 October 2014 - 07:51 AM

I do agree with JC and the younger racers not being able to identify with the bodies. They like retro cars. They like how chassis are scratch built, motor rules, etc. Everything about it except the bodies. I've heard a few say its not cool to use a body my great grandpa raced. Maybe something my grandpa or dad raced. I'm not saying Im against it. Just what I've heard.
  • John C Martin likes this
KellyRacing (loved by few hated by many)💯

R-Geo (Bad A$$ retro kits)💪

Mosseti flexi-chassi fanatic 👍👍

Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!!

#42 SlowBeas

SlowBeas

    Troublesome De-slotter

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 761 posts
  • Joined: 15-January 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lost in South Carolina, USA

Posted 21 October 2014 - 09:09 AM

I'm a firm believer if the car is easier to drive there will be more racers..

 

Bingo.

 

While I would not believe it necessary to change IRRA rules, creation of your own non-IRRA class with your specs is a great idea. The only way to draw in a younger crowd is to ensure the cars will handle. We all know stock cars are the most difficult to run on a track, and much of it is due to their lack of cornering ability.

 

If a newbie spends more time putting his car back in the slot than he does driving, the fun dies quickly. Plain and simple. They can enjoy a similar sensation sitting at home on the couch playing a NASCAR game that doesn't require such effort. (Laziness, maybe?)

 

Anyway, JC, I generally support your idea of creating your own class. I might even try to build a car to those specs and give it a try in Abbeville soon.

 

Best,

jb


  • John C Martin likes this
Jim Beasley
South Carolina, USA

"Assuming either the Left Wing or the Right Wing gained control of the country, it would probably fly around in circles."
- Pat Paulsen, 1968
"I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol."
- Steven Wright ca. 1983

#43 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,844 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 21 October 2014 - 10:07 AM

I would suggest you run a NASCAR Flexi Class since if easy is what you want for these, there won't be an easy to drive scratchbuilt Stick Car.


  • Half Fast and ejgehrken like this

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#44 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,897 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 21 October 2014 - 10:31 AM

John,
However you think you can attract new racers, you should go for it, but honestly, I don't see $200 Retro cars as the ticket.

I'll be happy to be corrected, but has Retro ever attracted new slot racers?

It seems more like existing guys whose local wing or flexi program has died off, or if it hasn't, they just like the idea of Retro.
  • Half Fast and ejgehrken like this

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#45 ejgehrken

ejgehrken

    On The Lead Lap

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 334 posts
  • Joined: 07-May 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southington, CT

Posted 21 October 2014 - 10:52 AM

Imo, a spec JK Cheetah 21 class is the best way to attract new racers. They can buy an RTR car that's race ready and very easy to drive.


  • John C Martin likes this
Eric Gehrken
Gehrken Retro Chassis
2015-16 Retro East Overall Champion
2015-16 Retro East Constructor's Champion
2013-14 New England Retro Racing Overall Champion

#46 John C Martin

John C Martin

    J.C Martin

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,058 posts
  • Joined: 02-November 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Smyrna, TN

Posted 21 October 2014 - 01:01 PM

My final choice would be.
Cut fender wells ,, 3 1/4 " width ,,812 tires front and rear,,,15 thou. Clearance in front ..my latest body to do this morning was a OS 652 chevelle,,it's a wider body., tires barely extend past body less than 3/8" front and rear..with a full bumper front and rear!!! .except for front plate area. This body is IRRA legal, door lines are legal ..except fenders wells are opened up..
But who cares?

Swiss 200 dollar cars? my last and best stockcar cost much less than that...hasn't been beat yet..it's a Cap Henry tri-pod. Clone from James merriman's viper pit winner...
Slot blog has cars everyday far less than that also ! Great builders also!
All my cars are built by the best builders. None were close to $200.. ( Tony Ps,,CHRs,,GVPs,, Jim Fowlers,,Pablo's ,,merriman 's,,Josh crutchfield's ,,Dennis K.
You must be thinking of cars with $52 PDs ( we don't do that anymore thanks to JK..)
  • Tim Neja likes this

#47 Tim Neja

Tim Neja

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,420 posts
  • Joined: 11-June 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orange County

Posted 21 October 2014 - 01:28 PM

Someone mentioned a "start up" class!  That could be easily accomplished with flexi chassis and Retro Hawk or Falcon motors.  Pick your tire size and go for it! Paint them like REAL cars and it's going to be a great handling cheap start up class.  Then your "move up" class could be retro scratch built cars!  That would add your "builder" types that enjoy that. Just a thought!! Anything to grow your racing is good!!  Have fun with it and create some fun!!! :)
  • John C Martin and wicked01 like this
She's real fine, my 409!!!

#48 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,897 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 21 October 2014 - 02:16 PM

If the chassis is $100, the whole car adds up to if not $200, close, especially if you get a painted body.

Anyway $175 or $200, isn't $65 for a flexi-car.

Also, if anyone has an example of a guy whose first race was Retro, I'd like to see it.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#49 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,897 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 21 October 2014 - 02:19 PM

PS-and quoting that long list of top chassis builders?

I think you're out of touch what some of them charge for chassis.

Among others, Tony P won't roll out of bed for $100, let alone plug in his soldering iron.Lol

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#50 John C Martin

John C Martin

    J.C Martin

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,058 posts
  • Joined: 02-November 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Smyrna, TN

Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:05 PM

I would suggest you run a NASCAR Flexi Class since if easy is what you want for these, there won't be an easy to drive scratchbuilt Stick Car.

My stockcar is very easy to drive as it is.. With the simple changes I listed. I think it's as good as a 4 1/2 flexie.
My 4 1/2" flexie's won at least 3 nats in the pro division ..so that says a lot for my Stockcars . Thanks to CHR ,,Pablo and GVP..





Electric Dreams Online Shop