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Changes to Stock Car?


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#1 John C Martin

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 05:38 PM

This has been discussed by some ,,we feel it's time..ideal is to get more racers for this class and make a better handling and better looking car with many more body choices..things such as making much the same requirements as the F1 class ..
Front and rear tires diameter .front and rear width ..front and rear under chassis heights..and cutting out fender wells of course..
Chassis restrictions same only moving front axle to adapt 790 min.fronts to .15 thou. Clearance..
With bodies that fit 4 1/2" fender wells only..no high spoilers, just the old stuff to be determined ?
Cutting out the windows with exception of the windshield..would let the stiffer bodies flex and lighten them as well as look realistic ..
This proposal to change needs discussion and input. I'd like every one try and come to Columbia's track Sat. To discuss or post here ,or PM me..
Stockcar's should be the most popular as it was once in flexie..we just need a adjustment in the rules..




#2 stemmy

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 05:53 PM

Good luck. The windows and tires are good ideas but I don't see them changing. Yesterday at the retro east race at pj , we had 30 entries. It's not really a dying class it's actually growing.
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#3 wicked01

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 06:03 PM

That's one example Stemmy , I have many more were their were only enough to barely race. I think these changes would attract more racers because me personally the way the cars are now is the reason I chose not to race the class .


Casey Dill
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#4 John C Martin

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 06:23 PM

Blair I don't think I'm talking national just our region .past time for a change..Our choice if we make it...
What's not to like, better handling cars ,more body choices . More realistic looking cars..guaranteed more racers!..
PS.. I'm just fine with my cars we just want more racers..Casey 's not the only one who feels that way,obviously many others do to...
But thanks for your input...

#5 stemmy

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 07:09 PM

I think some changes would make them better. What changes would you make.
Blair Stem

#6 Samiam

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 07:12 PM

:to_become_senile:


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#7 Pablo

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 08:12 PM

Gentlemen, please take note of the text immediately above the thread title, which clearly identifies it as being in the "Retro South" subforum.  If you ever race in Retro South, or plan to, or have something positive to add, your opinion is welcome. If not, please re-read sentence #1.

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#8 Samiam

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 08:57 PM

:paint2:


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#9 Pablo

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 09:24 PM

He is not asking for outside input, Sam.  When he says "This proposal to change needs discussion and input" he means Retro South input, period, otherwise he would have posted it under the IRRA banner instead of the Retro South subforum.  You are 100% welcome to send him a PM on the subject and discuss it to your heart's content.

 

Your statement about IRRA rules needing to be followed to the letter to be called an IRRA class is 100% correct, of course.  I'm sure JC knows that. There is no rule prohibiting raceways from running non-IRRA races, last time I checked. They could call it "JC Stockers"  :D 


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#10 slotcarone

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 09:28 PM

John there is absolutely nothing wrong with the way the IRRA Stock cars handle. If some people are having trouble getting theirs to handle correctly then ask for help on this forum. IMO there is no reason to amend or change any rules and certainly not because a few can't get their cars right.


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#11 bluecars

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 06:45 AM

:) If that's what it takes to get the numbers up I'm all for it. Nobody is saying you have to change your cars if you don't want to. (except cutting out some windows) I think the main thing is keeping numbers up. Without that nobody races. If it takes running the bodies backwards so be it. Sometimes change is good. I like Retro South even if I don't get a chance to get there often enough. This would not affect my the amount of races I attend but if it brings back any amount of racers I think It's worth it. I'm happy other places are having a good number of racers. We are not. So if change is what it takes I'm all for it. There are to many races being stopping due to lack of racers. GOOD LUCK J.C. Better to do something and race than do nothing and not. My 1.5 cents. :diablo:


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#12 John Streisguth

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 08:30 AM

Being outside the Retro South area, I won't add my opinion, but a suggestion: what effect would these proposed changes actually have on the cars?  Would they really make enough of a difference to bring up the participation numbers? Quantifying how much of a difference could help people decide what changes should be made. 


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#13 Noose

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 08:44 AM

We had 30 entries in this class this weekend with the top 4 guys within 2 laps so I don't think the rules need changing at all.  We killed the track records too for this class.


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#14 Noose

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 09:20 AM

PS:  At the last race we had 29 entries and records were broken there too. 


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#15 Gator Bob

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 11:57 AM

Facts - :dirol:

To keep your car count boasting and perceived success in perspective. :scratch_one-s_head:  

 

New York metropolitan area, also known as Retro East

Population ((2013))

  • Total - 23,484,225
  • Density - 1,876 sq miles

 

.... so that means you might be packed in like Sardines and all your 'stock cars' are one in a million builds. :shok:   :laugh2:

 

 

 

All of Florida, also known as GRRR. :sun_bespectacled:  :beach:

  • Population: 19.55 million  (2013)
  • Area: 65,755 sq miles 

Million year old Reptiles roam and Helicopters or Air Boats needed to take the short cuts.


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#16 BillyBob

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 12:02 PM

We had 30 entries in this class this weekend with the top 4 guys within 2 laps so I don't think the rules need changing at all.  We killed the track records too for this class.

 

We had a great race had 7 racers show up
Cookeville Raceway & Hobbies

 

 

Noose and Sam,

I think this is the problem. For some reason a retro series starts good in the South but peters out.

 

Plus what Gator Bob said.


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#17 Noose

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 12:08 PM

Forget the counts and just note that they run just fine.

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#18 Danny Zona

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 12:27 PM

Maybe RetroSouth can run IRRA rules as normal. Then run JC ("oldman") stockers before or after the IRRA races as a bonus race. See if it draws entries or not. That is of course if tracks wanted to.

Just a suggestion. I don't run stockers so I don't know much about them. They do look cool running on my home track tri-oval at our GRRR races.
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#19 John C Martin

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 01:44 PM

It does not matter to me how many you have in retro east .,maybe you don't have any other hobbies or things to do over there,,not so in the south.LOL..
Tracks are maybe farther apart here,,maybe economy is better there?
Thing is if we want to change our rules for stockcar we'll do it ! Call it whatever we want ..bonus race? Whatever..
We have 4 tracks in Tenn. With basically new racers...a new set of rules set for a better handling car (IMO) will tempt more people to race them..
Most of the people now that race them here are very good at it,,we need no help at all or advice...But be truthful the class has been handicapped from the start ,with track clearances in front ,large front tires,,thick bodies..and basically 2 or 3 bodies that are competitive
..
WHY..
Why cut out the windows ,,give body more flex, lighter,they will handle better!
... stock cars didn't have windows,,maybe it was colder up north..?
The smaller tires of course lower the center of gravity,,lighter..another place to run your used canam tires.
Even if you didn't widen the diameter out to 3 1/4" .with the smaller diameter tires you'll have less chance of tire rub front and rear..corrected that to 790 not 750 fronts. By The way..
A much better selection of bodies can and would be ran added to what's ran if you want to win ( Talladega or Daytona maybe charger)
I'll race anything and try and like it..but if it can be made better for new people I'll do it!
Once again 15 thou. Clearance front as is F1..40 thou. Back as F1 ...3 1/4 width as F1... Cut out windows like a real stockcar..
Stock-cars ( NASCAR ) a little later ( I don't know what year )had rounded fender wells ).. Sat. Night Stockcars always had cut fender wells..! More popular in the south, than north...
Time for a rules change in our region if not yours and your happy so be it ..we here are ready for a change before it's deader than it is...
I can see the light ,it looks very dim..so we will try a rules change..If it helps are turnout that's all that matters!
This was in the retro south forum. Why do you others except maybe NOOSE even care?? Jay guard and I months ago have both discussed some of these changes with noose and cheater..
Tired of talking about it ..we'll call it Real Retro Stockcars...
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#20 ejgehrken

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 02:27 PM

It seems like your problem is that you aren't getting enough entries to make the stock car class worthwhile. Why not switch out Stock Car with GT Coupe in your series? It will likely get more entries since racers can use their can am cars with coupe bodies on them. You also don't have worry about generating a new set of rules as this is a pretty well attended class in each series/event its run at.   


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#21 Noose

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 02:40 PM

John, REAL Retro Stockcars were what the current rules were based on.  Straight the old NCC rules.

 

Do what you guys want.  I just wanted to reflect that they are great just the way they are.  They are the hardest class to drive out of all of them.  Good, something should be.  That said, it's a growing class out here and has been ever sine we stopped running ovals. 

 

Eric's suggestion on Coupes is a great one if you are looking for attendance. 


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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#22 MSwiss

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 02:51 PM

Tired of talking about it ..we'll call it Real Retro Stockcars...

Change whatever you want but at least call it Lowrider Real Retro Stockcars or Cafeteria Real Retro Stockcars.

.790 tires?? Lol

When this class was proposed, I was for 1" or least 7/8" tires.

You still have to talk guys into investing in a single purpose, long chassis, that will probably cost them at least $100.

Of course, unless you come up with 4" Real Retro Stockcars.

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#23 John C Martin

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 02:56 PM

That may work Eric ,,but this is the south and we do love NASCAR..
I think some of it is about the look to some ,,ugly Daytona bodies not much better Talladega 's ford fairlanes don't fit real well ...everything fits with the alterations and looks better..and will handle better to attract newer racers..
I've seen some very nice looking drag type bodies with much more detail in the mold..
The class turned into a same as F1 and canam ( ti 22 ). 2 best bodies for each..( boring )
Let's add some real looks to this class..Aero IMO does not play into this class at 120 gram +
Body choices are immense...
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Mike your kind of right but canam aren't scale 15thou clearance in front same for F1. Why are they that low when Stockcars are 50 thou.
Makes sense to me a easier to drive car that looks more real with better looking bodies that will handle better will attract more participation ,, that's all I'm saying...make sense to you?

#24 Noose

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 03:07 PM

John, FYI a Parma Lola T163 came in 1st and 3rd this weekend vs. all the TI22s.

 

The Older style Charger worked just fine on the big Engleman at Speedzone and even better than the Torino or Cyclone or Daytona.

 

At Port Jeff the Cyclones were the better choice.

 

You can always go with the squashed Electric Dreams Mercury.  SoCal uses that in an Anglewinder Stock Car class.  I think JK just came out with the same type of squashed Stock Car body.

 

The manufacturers aren't just going to make more bodies for this class if there is no money to be made in it.  Not will those making IRRA legal ones, well at least Parma, make a 10 thou version vs. the 15 called called for.


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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#25 Gator Bob

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 03:08 PM

Sounds like a cool class J.C.

 

Because I like Stock Cars ..... I'm likin' the sound of an 'Outlaw' class.

Southern style.

 

Body -

As approved - new models as added.

Windows - side cut out -  optional 

Cut wheel wells - original wheelbase centerline only. 

Roof height rule

1/2 Rear spoiler - optional

Tail panel - cutout to 1/8" edge

Flag/clips may show - must be black - no wire showing.

 

Tires -

No change - (nice full wheel wells)

 

Chassis -

3" wide - pans/rails/body mounting

3 1/8" total (bead hub)

up to 1" guide lead

Ride height .015/.040

 

Motors -

Add PS/PD and 4002FK


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