Jump to content




Photo

How to start a low-cost Retro class?


  • Please log in to reply
58 replies to this topic

#1 mcrracer

mcrracer

    Backmarker

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 67 posts
  • Joined: 26-June 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Virginia Beach VA

Posted 25 October 2014 - 10:32 PM

Is There a way to start up a "low cost" Retro class of racing at my track? All I have been seeing so far are chassis around $125 and up. Is there a lower cost alternative for chassis? My guys are all new, none can build their own chassis yet.

What are my options? So far we have a 55 foot oval. We are working on getting a mini orange or a mini Paperclip.

I like very much the idea of the Retro class. What are our simpler, low cost motor options?

Thanks.
Marlon Reed




#2 Bud Greene

Bud Greene

    On The Lead Lap

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 397 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Saraland, AL

Posted 25 October 2014 - 10:54 PM

The Slick 7 Mini Brute is about as cheap as it gets.

#3 team burrito

team burrito

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,666 posts
  • Joined: 15-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay area

Posted 26 October 2014 - 12:27 AM

The simplest would be to start with the JK basic chassis (not the X25) and Retro Hawk motor. Stick with the Parma pink gears, JK tires, and some basic body choices. If you build your own car, it should be under a 100 dollars. Keep it simple and don't let things get out of hand.

Good luck and good night.
Russ Toy (not Troy)
First Place Loser in the JK Products
International D3 Builders Competition

#4 macman

macman

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,093 posts
  • Joined: 31-July 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Charlotte, NC

Posted 26 October 2014 - 02:29 AM

Stamped steel chassis, Retro Hawk motor, Can-Am body...
Ben Kernan
Formerly of SARN

Yes, I am a sarcastic, smart-azz, know-it-all old bastard of a genius. 
What is old is new again... Retro... Gotta love it !!!
"May all your inlines be Retro, my son."
The Englelman: a truly superior design.
 

#5 John Streisguth

John Streisguth

    Johnny VW

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,616 posts
  • Joined: 20-November 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bangor, PA

Posted 26 October 2014 - 03:42 AM

The cheapest pre-built chassis (if it's still available) has been the JK X25R, which is a very good handling chassis. They used to retail for about $75-80, IIRC. 

The Retro Hawk motor is about as cheap as you can get. 

Pretty much everyone runs a Ti22 body, there's a few choices there. 

Limit the front wheels to non-ball bearing type, maybe require rear bushings instead of ball bearings (although there are sources for ball bearings cheaply, too). 

You will probably be around $125-$130, but the car would be competitive just about anywhere.
  • team burrito and Cap Henry like this
"Whatever..."

#6 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,363 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 26 October 2014 - 06:07 AM

Limiting tire choice to one like JK, one size hub, treated and untreated, will probably be the biggest way to save money. tires are in most cases the biggest expense in Retro racing. The Retro Hawks last multiple races as do bodies and front tires and guys have run the same chassis for years... It's the rear tires which add up real quick...


  • Hipsticker and Rich Goucher like this

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Noose Painted Bodies
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#7 Samiam

Samiam

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,812 posts
  • Joined: 18-January 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, NY

Posted 26 October 2014 - 07:46 AM

Marion,

 

You have stated that you have an Oval right now. Are you planning on running Stock Cars?


Sam Levitch
 
When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything is a nail.
Support your local raceway, or you won't have one.
Slot cars are quad-pods.
Support your "Local Racer."
:laugh2:

#8 Joe Mig

Joe Mig

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,927 posts
  • Joined: 25-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens, NY, USA

Posted 26 October 2014 - 08:14 AM

If you have an oval I would start a stock car class using IRRA® rules and sell the guys the parts and have a build clinic and ust the JK stock car chassis kit. I think THIS is the one.

Get them building the chassis kits and have someone teach them how to solder with the proper equipment.
  • John C Martin, Samiam and George Blaha like this
Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#9 slotcarone

slotcarone

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,240 posts
  • Joined: 23-January 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dutchess County, NY

Posted 26 October 2014 - 08:20 AM

There are usually some very good used Retro chassis available on the blog, too!!
  • John C Martin and George Blaha like this

Mike Katz

Scratchbuilts forever!!


#10 macman

macman

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,093 posts
  • Joined: 31-July 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Charlotte, NC

Posted 26 October 2014 - 08:28 AM

While I love it, for some people, Retro just isn't their thing, they seem content to do stamped steel cars, &and have lots of them.
Ben Kernan
Formerly of SARN

Yes, I am a sarcastic, smart-azz, know-it-all old bastard of a genius. 
What is old is new again... Retro... Gotta love it !!!
"May all your inlines be Retro, my son."
The Englelman: a truly superior design.
 

#11 JohnnySlotcar

JohnnySlotcar

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,877 posts
  • Joined: 26-August 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Barrington, IL

Posted 26 October 2014 - 08:35 AM

Marlon,

Give me a call. I think I can help you.

John (224) 805-1138.
John Austin

#12 wicked01

wicked01

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPip
  • 128 posts
  • Joined: 12-June 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cookeville, TN

Posted 26 October 2014 - 10:20 AM

The cheapest and most cost effective class would be Retro flexi and the IRRA® already has rules for this class. I just wish more series would run it. I guarantee more young people would run the class, and it's a whole lot cheaper on everyone.
  • MG Brown likes this
Casey Dill
 
Posted Image

#13 team burrito

team burrito

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,666 posts
  • Joined: 15-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay area

Posted 26 October 2014 - 12:36 PM

Stamped steel chassis, Retro Hawk motor, Can-Am body...

 

While I love it, for some people, Retro just isn't their thing, they seem content to do stamped steel cars, &and have lots of them.

 

The cheapest and most cost effective class would be Retro flexi and the IRRA)r) already has rules for this class. I just wish more series would run it. I guarantee more young people would run the class, and it's a whole lot cheaper on everyone.

 
Building chassis is not everybody's thing, even though it's not the hardest thing to do. The best way to start Retro racing is with flexi chassis. The chassis is usually the most expensive component of the Retro car; everything else is relatively low cost, providing you do your own work.
 
JK offers the perfect ready-to-run Retro type cars; right now they have 4-1/2" old school NASCAR for under a 100 dollars or a rolling chassis for 64 dollars. They also carry 4" Retro cars with pre-painted Can-Am bodies, check their website.
 
Do not allow the current JK or Pro Slot chassis with the open motor box; these chassis are just too competitive for Retro racing and the tires are a lot smaller in scale. The older flexi chassis like the Champion Astro and JK Cheetah 7 are perfect for this application.

Keep it simple and keep it fun. That's the whole point, isn't it?
Russ Toy (not Troy)
First Place Loser in the JK Products
International D3 Builders Competition

#14 John Streisguth

John Streisguth

    Johnny VW

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,616 posts
  • Joined: 20-November 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bangor, PA

Posted 26 October 2014 - 02:28 PM

True "retro" classes were designed for chassis builders, so by default it's a class where you either have to be able to build a chassis or have the money to buy one that someone slent a few hours working on.  I agree with the posts about using stamped steel "flexi" style chassis.  You can really create almost any type of car by just changing out the body.  If racing on a budget is the goal, that's probably the best bet.  Then every few months you can change out the body style and get some fresh enthusiasm.


  • team burrito and Half Fast like this
"Whatever..."

#15 mcrracer

mcrracer

    Backmarker

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 67 posts
  • Joined: 26-June 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Virginia Beach VA

Posted 26 October 2014 - 03:40 PM

Yes we are planning on the NASCAR racing. Still feeling out and building a customer base. These are all brand new slotters. No experience whatsoever. Still deciding on a direction.

Thanks for all the suggestions.
Marlon Reed

#16 team burrito

team burrito

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,666 posts
  • Joined: 15-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay area

Posted 26 October 2014 - 04:37 PM

This is where you want to start:

10675627_381675308656064_602455308035097
  • MG Brown, Joe Mig, Tim Neja and 2 others like this
Russ Toy (not Troy)
First Place Loser in the JK Products
International D3 Builders Competition

#17 Tex

Tex

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,809 posts
  • Joined: 07-July 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denton, TX

Posted 26 October 2014 - 08:04 PM

Say what you will, but there's nothing "Retro" about a stamped steel chassis. I have no problem with people wanting to race flexis; but flexis ain't Retro. Well, maybe not. I guess it's how far back in slot racing history you want to go. Were there flexis 30 years ago? Would that be "Retro"?
  • Noose, Joe Mig and Samiam like this
Richard L. Hofer

Remember, two wrongs don't make a right... but three lefts do! Only you're a block over and a block behind.

#18 John Streisguth

John Streisguth

    Johnny VW

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,616 posts
  • Joined: 20-November 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bangor, PA

Posted 26 October 2014 - 09:29 PM

There certainly were flexis 25 years ago...

 

Stamped steel chassis will take the abuse of newbies much better than brass and wire. 


  • team burrito and Tim Neja like this
"Whatever..."

#19 Cap Henry

Cap Henry

    CHR Cars

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,480 posts
  • Joined: 25-October 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bellevue, OH

Posted 26 October 2014 - 09:41 PM

To get Retro going better in our area we had a class built around the JK prebuilt x25R. The chassis sells for $80 I believe. Guys were also allowed to build their own. But it had to be built as a copy of the prebuilt cars. Non-ball bearing fronts, JK Retro Hawks, any IRRA® Can-Am body. Kids learned to fix their own cars with a lil help, some even try to build now.

Now a couple series come to the area so we have opened it up to Can-Am and RETRO 7-68. But it was a great starting point
  • John C Martin likes this

Team PSC
Parma PSE
CHR Cars
JDR-Joe Dirt Racing


#20 idare2bdul

idare2bdul

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,629 posts
  • Joined: 06-March 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Garner, NC

Posted 27 October 2014 - 12:28 AM

It depends on your objective what path you should take. If you just want to have racers use flexi style chassis.  If you want to create builders, that's a different issue.  

 

People forget or ignore the fact that most racers built chassis in the '60s because over the counter chassis weren't competitive. We now ban over the counter chassis from most (all?) Retro classes because we have to protect the homebuilt chassis cars from the over the counter stamped steel cars.

 

It all depends on what you want, there isn't a right or wrong answer.

 

At HOB-Max in Durham and Frugals Raceway in Franklinton we are racing Flexi style chassis with Retro Coupe and Retro Stock Car bodies with Hawk 7 motors. Sometimes we race GTP bodies, same chassis rules and American balanced 16Ds.


The light at the end of the tunnel is almost always a train.
Mike Boemker

#21 Dan Ebert

Dan Ebert

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,035 posts
  • Joined: 01-March 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Erie, PA

Posted 27 October 2014 - 09:20 AM

If you are looking for cheap and as close to a Retro feel as possible. Try a 4 inch FCR Chassis and use the Pro Slot FK motor. Running stocker bodies use the 4 -1/2 inch chassis. The car will be easier to tune and repair for new racers. Simple, cheap, and the speed won't be that far off. Why more don't try these as a stepping stone to Retro cars is beyond me. You set up the chassis for .810" tires with the offset oilites in the rear. Why make it any harder and expensive for new racers?

 

The FCR is an INLINE chassis so the tuning will copy the Retro build in many ways.


  • Noose, Joe Mig and TG Racing like this
GallerymanDan

#22 Jeff Bechtel

Jeff Bechtel

    Backmarker

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 57 posts
  • Joined: 07-October 08
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 October 2014 - 10:31 AM

The Parma "Flexi" chassis and ready to run car was released in 1984. So, it actually is 30 years old.
  • team burrito and Danny Zona like this

#23 JimF

JimF

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,806 posts
  • Joined: 20-June 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 October 2014 - 12:31 PM

Rant alert...   :shok:

 

Retro racing is not a beginner class. The cars do not stand up to wall hits and other abuse the way a stamped steel car will. Things will inevitably bend and break and then they'll have to be fixed. Who is going to do that? The sad fact is that many folks have been racing slot cars for years (years!...I tell ya) and they absolutely cannot solder a lick. When the inevitable damage happens to a Retro car, even a fairly robust one, the brass pans are often bent, the frame rail(s) may be bent and the alignment is almost surely out of whack. Cold, blobby solder joints are not going to go very far in fixing some of this stuff and fixing this stuff if not the way to break in new racers.

 

I love Retro and it is 95% of my slot car hobby but it is just not well-suited to inexperienced folks. Start with some of the RTR cars already suggested and work with the newbies on simple stuff like how to align their braid, keeping the gears meshed properly, reinforcing the bodies, soldering in the motors, keeping the guide set right.

 

The sad fact is that way too many commercial raceways will sell a RTR car to a family and and are so damn lazy that they do not tell them one blessed thing about how to drive it or maintain it. So... the ten-year-old goes out and bashes it into a wall a few times. They giggle and think it's fun until they break something and then they don't know what to do. If you start your racers slowly and with simple stuff, then educate them fully, you can build some long term hobbyists. Then... at some point Retro may be a viable option.

 

Oh, BTW... "go fast on the straights and let up for the turns"... is not exactly adequate driving training.

 

Rant off...


  • Rick, MantaRay, team burrito and 7 others like this
Jim Fowler

#24 team burrito

team burrito

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,666 posts
  • Joined: 15-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay area

Posted 27 October 2014 - 08:41 PM

Wow! Why so grumpy, Jim?

 

Grumpy-Cat.jpg


Russ Toy (not Troy)
First Place Loser in the JK Products
International D3 Builders Competition

#25 Arne Saknussem

Arne Saknussem

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 914 posts
  • Joined: 19-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Citizen of the World

Posted 27 October 2014 - 09:04 PM

When I started flying model aircraft there was Cox product called the PT-19 (I think) that was a reasonable replica of the navy trainer of the same name. That model was sturdily built and the parts were held together by rubber bands. You crashed, the rubber bands came off, it came apart. You put the pieces back together, replaced the rubber bands, cranked it up, and off you went. You repeated the process until you stopped crashing.

 

When there's a PT-19 slot car you might be able to get somewhere.


Pete Varlan

"A friend to many, a nightmare to many more."


#26 JimF

JimF

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,806 posts
  • Joined: 20-June 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 October 2014 - 10:06 PM

Wow! Why so grumpy, Jim?

 
That... wasn't grumpy!
 
Seriously, it's a shame how many folks get into the slot car retail business because they think it's easy. Those folks fail. They fail partially because of the factors that set me off on that rant. Just saw this very thing this last Friday in one of our fine NorCal emporiums. To succeed in this type of a business, you have to nurture the beginner customer rather than take their money and not do the follow up.
 
BTW... none of that rant was directed at our OP here. He hasn't gotten started yet. He has an opportunity to start up slowly, keeping it simple, and to make sure his customers are properly informed. Kudos to him for doing at least some basic research before just leaping into the fire. Basic retail skills are much the same no matter what your business. If you take proper care of your customers, you have a fighting chance.
 
If not... you'd better have a short lease.


  • Joe Mig and Tim Neja like this
Jim Fowler

#27 Randy Tragni

Randy Tragni

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 351 posts
  • Joined: 31-January 09
  • Location:N. California

Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:01 PM

Build a cigar car. It uses a Turboflex chassis and your choice of Retro F1 bodies. They handle about as good as a well-built Retro F1 chassis but cost almost nothing to build. Motor choice is yours so you can use whatever you have (I use Hawk 6 or Hawk 7 depending on how much power I want to put down).

 

Here's an example of mine...

 

cigar_car.jpg

 

cigar_down.jpg

 

Randy


  • Samiam likes this

#28 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,425 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 28 October 2014 - 09:48 AM

Even though I'm a Retro guy, I agree with Jim.

It's really not a beginner class, or makes much sense on a 55 ft. oval.

The other consideration is,unless you are using used parts, building a car up from scratch is always more expensive than buying an RTR.

Back to Jim, I disagree that so many racers don't know how to solder.

IMO, there is very little technique or talent required to solder adequately.

I think it's more a case of not investing in the right equipment.

Most new guys think they can get away with that $25,700°, Radio Shack iron and rosin flux,vs. a 1000°+ iron and strong acid flux.

It's not the same as buying a $7 set of wrenches from Harbor Freight that will still tighten a nut 99% as well as a Craftsman, or better, set of wrenches.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - LOL) 
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#29 JimF

JimF

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,806 posts
  • Joined: 20-June 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 28 October 2014 - 10:36 AM

Back to Jim, I disagree that so many racers don't know how to solder.

IMO, there is very little technique or talent required to solder adequately.

I think it's more a case of not investing in the right equipment.

Most new guys think they can get away with that $25,700°, Radio Shack iron and rosin flux,vs. a 1000°+ iron and strong acid flux.


It's not the same as buying a $7 set of wrenches from Harbor Freight that will still tighten a nut 99% as well as a Craftsman, or better, set of wrenches.

 

Can't disagree with ya there. That's just another expense to deal with and skill set that the beginner would have to learn.


Jim Fowler

#30 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,425 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 28 October 2014 - 10:44 AM

I just think the skill set part is overrated.

When I was 14, as soon as I bought an Unger, some Staybrite, and a Dremel, with cutting discs, I was a pretty solid chassis builder.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - LOL) 
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#31 Danny Zona

Danny Zona

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,017 posts
  • Joined: 27-July 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Holly Hill (DaytonaBch), FL

Posted 28 October 2014 - 11:18 AM

My buddy who started back was going to buy a cheaper solder iron. Who doesn't want a deal? I told him noooooo to the cheap iron and explained why. He bought a good one.
  • George Blaha likes this
KellyRacing (loved by few hated by many)

R-Geo (Bad A$$ retro kits)

Mosseti flexi-chassi fanatic 👍👍

Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!!

#32 mcrracer

mcrracer

    Backmarker

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 67 posts
  • Joined: 26-June 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Virginia Beach VA

Posted 28 October 2014 - 11:54 AM

The "OP" has owned 10 raceways in several different cities over the past 30 years. He has also owned a total of 15 businesses over the past 40 years. Not new at this. Thanks for all of the suggestions. They all will be carefully considered.


Marlon Reed

#33 team burrito

team burrito

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,666 posts
  • Joined: 15-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay area

Posted 28 October 2014 - 08:26 PM

Build a cigar car. It uses a Turboflex chassis and your choice of Retro F1 bodies. They handle about as good as a well-built Retro F1 chassis but cost almost nothing to build. Motor choice is yours so you can use whatever you have (I use Hawk 6 or Hawk 7 depending on how much power I want to put down).

 

Randy

 

that's ain't retro & never will be.


Russ Toy (not Troy)
First Place Loser in the JK Products
International D3 Builders Competition

#34 John Streisguth

John Streisguth

    Johnny VW

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,616 posts
  • Joined: 20-November 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bangor, PA

Posted 28 October 2014 - 10:15 PM

Well Marlon, I hope you got something of value from all of this. Many opinions, the right one is yours.


"Whatever..."

#35 team burrito

team burrito

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,666 posts
  • Joined: 15-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay area

Posted 29 October 2014 - 02:02 AM

Back to Jim, I disagree that so many racers don't know how to solder.  IMO, there is very little technique or talent required to solder adequately.

 
It takes more than technique & talent to build a chassis, it takes dedication & not a lot of people are dedicated to that skill level. However, if they try to build their own chassis, eventually they will become better at it.
  • Tim Neja likes this
Russ Toy (not Troy)
First Place Loser in the JK Products
International D3 Builders Competition

#36 Randy Tragni

Randy Tragni

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 351 posts
  • Joined: 31-January 09
  • Location:N. California

Posted 29 October 2014 - 11:15 PM

Russ, I disagree. The retro part can be all about the body and the looks. I don't think most really care what chassis is hidden under the skin. I also believe that most people don't really know how nor want to build a finicky and hard to set up brass chassis if it could be avoided. I also think they would rather work with something more familiar to them. Besides, the obsolete Turbo flex chassis is truly retro now.

What people want is close racing (aka the popularity of FCR before Parma and certain track owners killed it). The Turboflex becomes a great equalizer that anyone can simply build and is easy to set up. It lets the driver shine and eliminates the need to buy a chassis from one of the few individuals that understand the nuances of scratch brass chassis builds.


  • Jen McNaughton likes this

#37 team burrito

team burrito

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,666 posts
  • Joined: 15-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay area

Posted 30 October 2014 - 01:33 AM

If that was true, any idiot can slap a body on a flexi & call it retro. The idea of retro slot racing is to recreate that era from the 60's & that starts with the scratch-built chassis. The size of the tires matters too, because the flexi's uses much smaller tires for maximum performance.  Back then, the max width was 3", front tires were 3/4" dia, rear tires were 7/8" dia & 1/16" clearance, front to rear.  Racing back then was a blast & I'm glad retro racing is as strong as it is today.

 

To the newbies, yeah it's easier to race a flexi & that's fine for them.  But, retro slot racing was created by a bunch of old pro slot racers who wanted to return to real scale racing, not the slammed cars of today.  Speed isn't everything & we at NorCal have learned that lesson.  Retro is not for beginners, but if you make something from a pile of brass & wire and it works, there's something magical about it.  It's called a spark of imagination.


  • gascarnut, Joe Mig, Tim Neja and 2 others like this
Russ Toy (not Troy)
First Place Loser in the JK Products
International D3 Builders Competition

#38 abarthmike

abarthmike

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Joined: 26-July 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bangkok

Posted 31 October 2014 - 04:05 AM

When I started flying model aircraft there was Cox product called the PT-19 (I think) that was a reasonable replica of the navy trainer of the same name. That model was sturdily built and the parts were held together by rubber bands. You crashed, the rubber bands came off, it came apart. You put the pieces back together, replaced the rubber bands, cranked it up, and off you went. You repeated the process until you stopped crashing.

 

When there's a PT-19 slot car you might be able to get somewhere.

 

When I started flying I started with a sturdy combat aircraft, built myself. Didn't have Cox where I lived.  :)  But with aircraft I was in control of any crashes and the built it oneself did add to the reserved beginning. Just looked and the propeller marks from my fingers seemed to have "aged"

 

I don't know what the answer to the OP is but something that is robust and cheap with cheap bits to replace the broken bits. Sadly "modern" philosophy derived from video games has no sensitivity for consequences? So the reckless/cavalier attitude to crashes needs time to be "appreciated"?. How to achieve this if everything is ready made and "it is only money" attitude prevails is beyond me.


Mike Rust

#39 jimht

jimht

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,122 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Alamo City

Posted 31 October 2014 - 09:10 AM

Why bother with "low-cost", Marlon?

The tightwads will always find a way and everyone else will spend according to their ability.

 

The only Retro rule set could you come up with to make it any cheaper would involve banning the buying of assembled chassis, and how could that be enforced?


  • George Blaha likes this

Jim Honeycutt

"I don't think I'm ever more 'aware' than I am right after I hit my thumb with a hammer." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]


#40 George Blaha

George Blaha

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,155 posts
  • Joined: 07-May 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Flushing, NY 11358

Posted 31 October 2014 - 05:53 PM

Hey ya awl,

 

IRRAtm Retro goes from real cheapies to real cheapies plus. In every class you can run the car with choices you make as to power plant, wheels , tires, bearings and chassis construction. Purchase a rear axel motor bracket, pinion and crown gear, guide, steel guide tongue, some1/16" piano wire, a clear plastic body from the IRRA lists, and solder a strong simple chassis so you can have fun driving hard with 10 to 30 like minded people. You choose to spend as much or as little as the rules allow. You chose the components and you get the enjoyment. See that it CAN be made this way and be reasonably competitive. I like the IRRAtm Retro Stock Car Class because the tire tread rules limit to 3 inches to allow for narrower tracks and to ease up on bent axles, rims, chassis, et al and egos. Also the idea of central motor location allows for the SIMILAR type of chassis for/on ALL types of tracks. So if you really enjoy this IRRA type of retro racing  you will be able to travel to another track that applies IRRAtm Rules and be reasonably competitive and meet other IRRA type slot racers on a fair basis. Look at me and my buddies, we are mid-pack racers and enjoy IRRAtm mid-pack finishing at many different raceways!

 

Shakey George Blaha

 

The Retro Stock Car Promoter

 

Enjoy SLOT CAR RACING NOW, it is later than you think.


  • Samiam likes this

#41 Samiam

Samiam

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,812 posts
  • Joined: 18-January 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, NY

Posted 31 October 2014 - 06:26 PM

When the IRRA was first conceived they did include a Flexi class. Designed to be an entry level class to bolster the entries. It was dropped when attendance at IRRA events became standing room only. If you want to get new racers started  with a Retro flavored car I would start there. Not sure if the rules are still posted.

 

Nope,just checked. Anyone know where to dig them up?


  • George Blaha likes this
Sam Levitch
 
When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything is a nail.
Support your local raceway, or you won't have one.
Slot cars are quad-pods.
Support your "Local Racer."
:laugh2:

#42 Tim Neja

Tim Neja

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,382 posts
  • Joined: 11-June 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orange County

Posted 31 October 2014 - 07:32 PM

There seems to be a disconnect in this thread--it's saying "Low cost" retro!  Not necessarily "newbie"!!  The best way to be low cost is to learn to build the chassis yourself!  And yes--that's what retro was started as--a "builders" class for racing.  I'd never built a chassis in my life when Jeff Easterly handed me his F-1  car and told be to "copy" it!!  I bought the parts--went home and started bending and soldering!! It didn't look too good--but it got around the track okay!! You can build your OWN car for about $125 complete RTR!! Get yourself the Steube building video--and start building!!  It's not that hard-- and it's a lot of fun!!  


  • team burrito and Danny Zona like this
She's real fine, my 409!!!

#43 Duffy

Duffy

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,791 posts
  • Joined: 25-January 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Geographically Brooklyn, Politically Berkeley

Posted 31 October 2014 - 08:30 PM

I was not aware the Mike Steube DVD was still available. In earlier discussions, guys have asked about it and got responses ranging from vague to out-of-print. Anybody know a proper source? Seems like we oughta be able to save some newbies some repetitive tailchasing.

 

Sam, IRRA™'s rulebook no longer includes the Flexi event. I believe it was dropped two years ago.


Michael J. Heinrich
1950-2016
Requiescat in Pace
 
And I am awaiting
perpetually and forever
a renaissance of wonder

#44 Samiam

Samiam

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,812 posts
  • Joined: 18-January 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, NY

Posted 31 October 2014 - 08:41 PM

 

 

Sam, IRRA™'s rulebook no longer includes the Flexi event. I believe it was dropped two years ago.

Nothing ever disappears from the Inter-Web. It must be out there somewhere.


Sam Levitch
 
When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything is a nail.
Support your local raceway, or you won't have one.
Slot cars are quad-pods.
Support your "Local Racer."
:laugh2:

#45 Hermit #1

Hermit #1

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 174 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wichita, KS

Posted 31 October 2014 - 08:45 PM

I believe this link shows how to obtain the Mike Steube DVD.


  • Tim Neja and Samiam like this

Dave "Hermit" Jones

My father's sole piece of political advice:  "Son, politicians are like underwear - to keep them clean, you need to change them often."


 


#46 Samiam

Samiam

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,812 posts
  • Joined: 18-January 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, NY

Posted 31 October 2014 - 08:58 PM

 My guys are all new, none can build their own chassis yet.

Tim,

Key word: Yet.

With your good advise they should be building by seasons end. I still have my fathers Weller gun I used to solder my first cars 40+ years ago. We all started somewhere. Retro has revived the scratchbuilder in many of us. I think the class has been a huge boost for the entire slot racing hobby. I hope he gets this group of newbees racin' and burnin' fingers.


Sam Levitch
 
When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything is a nail.
Support your local raceway, or you won't have one.
Slot cars are quad-pods.
Support your "Local Racer."
:laugh2:

#47 Gator Bob

Gator Bob

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,739 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 11
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:.

Posted 31 October 2014 - 11:29 PM

Evil Flexi Rules.jpg


Bob Israelite

#48 Duffy

Duffy

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,791 posts
  • Joined: 25-January 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Geographically Brooklyn, Politically Berkeley

Posted 01 November 2014 - 06:17 AM

Thanks to Dave & G'Bob for doin' my homework!


Michael J. Heinrich
1950-2016
Requiescat in Pace
 
And I am awaiting
perpetually and forever
a renaissance of wonder

#49 John Streisguth

John Streisguth

    Johnny VW

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,616 posts
  • Joined: 20-November 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bangor, PA

Posted 01 November 2014 - 08:02 AM

Wow, you guys are still hammering at this one!  :dash2: :laugh2:


  • team burrito and Samiam like this
"Whatever..."

#50 Danny Zona

Danny Zona

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,017 posts
  • Joined: 27-July 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Holly Hill (DaytonaBch), FL

Posted 01 November 2014 - 09:37 AM

attachicon.gifEvil Flexi Rules.jpg


The evil flow

attachicon.gifEvil Flexi Rules.jpg

attachicon.gifEvil Flexi Rules.jpg


The Evil flexi rules are not the same as the original IRRA retro flexi rules. They were tweked to cordinate with our flexi My Series rules.
KellyRacing (loved by few hated by many)

R-Geo (Bad A$$ retro kits)

Mosseti flexi-chassi fanatic 👍👍

Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!!





Electric Dreams Online Shop