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“Rods and Rails” - 2nd Annual Drag Proxy rules


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#1 Gator Bob

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 01:30 AM

"Rods and Rails"- Memorial Drag Proxy

 

This topic will only be for the Official Rules, Registrations, Timelines, and where to tune your radios if there is an actual emergency.

 

 

2ND Annual “Rods and Rails” Vintage Drag Proxy

  • Race date is May 16, 2015
  • Registration closes April 16, 2015
  • Heads up racing. It's about the cars.
  • Track voltage at 14.7.
  • Scale 1000 ft. trap -
  • Heavy glue shutdown
  • Track braid depth is .010 
  • All cars make passes both lanes
  • ALL Vintage running gear and gears. 48p or 64p. Modern pinion accepted.
  • Modern or Vintage Guide flag blade portion must be black or have foil reflective tape on blade to prevent ‘No Time’ displayed or ‘Can’t Stage’ issues.
  • Rear wheels and/or tires can be modern or vintage. Any compound allowed. Builders can chose to mix and match wheels or put new rubber on vintage wheels. Minimum Dia. of 1”.
  • Front Wheels and tires must be 67 or before vintage. Min Dia. – 7/8. No Min. width, O rings allowed.
  • Front tires may not be more than 1/16th off the race surface at the starting line.
  • No weight rule.
  • 3.25 maximum width
  • 8 inch maximum overall length for “Rods”
  • 11 inch maximum overall length for “Rails”
  • Only laminated motors allowed, any mods - except no Neo or Cobalt magnets.
  • Any chassis design or materials, we can't put the Genie back in the bottle ... it's been tried.
  • No wheelie bars. (except Exhibition Classes)
  • Bodies - Reproduction or vintage - any hard body model, vacuum pulled clear, Styrene, or hand craft made (wood, tin, alum, plastic, brass, etc.).
  • Vac formed Thingy bodies allowed in “Rods” as a Comp Coupe class car if under 8” maximum or “Rails” over 8” maximum 
  • No modern Pro/Mod looking bodies regardless of year the concept was created from.
  • “Rods” 1967 cut-off for components and OEM body style.
  • Stock Class 1955 to 1967 hard body only.
  • Car Model Technical Journal of Model Car Racing Volume #1 * is the component timestamp guide.
  • $10.00 entry fee for the first car.  $7.50 for each car thereafter.
  • All shipping charges to and from the event and any requested return insurance/customs costs are on the racer.
  • Cars will be returned in original senders package. Please pack accordingly.
  • Winners trophy can or or will be packed with care separately as not to damage the car. Shipping of the trophy will be at the winners expense outside of the lower US 48 states.
  • Box plaque will be packed with the entries for the return trip. 

 

Stock 

  • 1/24th and 1/25th scale model body (hardbody) only.
  • Any  1955 to 1967 car that had a total production minimum of 500.
  • Stock full street OEM trim only , no 3in1 kit type customizing.
  • OE wheelwell radius and fender lip must be maintained at 80%
  • Stock Laminated or Open-Frame motors .
  • Must have full interior w/driver – Min. 3 colors req. Interior card with glued in driver allowed. Vacform acceptable.

“Rods”

  • Will combine cars with a total length of 8” or less:
  1. Sports and Modified Sports
  2. Roadster and Modified Roadster
  3. Gas
  4. Altered
  5. Competition Coupe
  • Stock or modified  Laminated or Open-Frame motors (No Neo or cobalt magnets)
  • Must have full interior w/driver – Min. 3 colors req. Interior card with glued in driver allowed. Vacform acceptable.
  •  

“Rails” Sponsored By:  RGeo logo.JPG

  • Stock or modified  Laminated or Open-Frame motors (No Neo or cobalt magnets)
  • Total length = 8” Min and 11” Max.

Exhibition Classes

  • 'Unlimited'
  • Stock or modified Padlock or Open frame motor, neo magnets, Wheelie Bars, parachute, multi motors .... etc.
  • Any 1967 or before slot production Padlock Plate/Frame must be the platform. Modifications to the original set-up is unrestricted .  One off custom machined or hand made parts are allowed.
  •  
  • Low official E/T and High MPH Awards.

 

  • 'Wheelstander'
  • Motor can be Padlock, Open frame or Mabuchi 36D only,
  • Wheeliebars allowed.
  • Chassis – stamped or scratchbuilt.
  • Cars must be on the front wheels at the starting line and must be on two wheels the whole length and at the finish line.
  •  
  • Low officially recorded E/T Award

 

 

Payment:

  • Is to be paid by PayPal, CC or Cash to Track Owner – Bill Pinch via PayPal at - bpinch1@bellsouth.net with fee paid as family/friend (entrant pays PayPal fee) 
  • To lock a car or cars position in the field a class is to be identified and entry fee paid no later than 3 days after registration closes.

Awards have to be ordered in advance thus the timing of getting the final car and participating drivers count is important.

  •  

 

Shipping:

Ship cars to: 

RACE PACE Bodies

ATTN: Bill Pinch

1351 Cibola Dr,

Melbourne, FL 32934

  • Please provide shipper tracking number info to:

         Bill Pinch -bpinch1@bellsouth.net

  • All shipping charges to and from the event and any requested return insurance/customs costs are on the racer.
  • Cars will be returned in original senders package. Please pack accordingly.
  • Box plaques will be packed with the competition cars (only) for the return trip. 

 

 

Race Prizes:

  • Donations Needed

Sponsors:

  • "Feed the Crew" and "Awards" any help would be appreciated.

Media:           

  • Video - Event will be filmed and posted to YouTube. - Sorry no live stream.
  • Pictures - Will be posted here on Slotblog and a good possibility on the TheRaceway.biz Facebook page.

 

 

Contact info:

 

www.TheRaceway.biz

1220 Sarno Road

MELBOURNE, FL 32935

 

Store Phones 

Toll Free: (866) 845-4559

Evening: (321) 600-4951 

==============================================================================================

 

Entry List

 

Sample

Rods and Rails 2nd signup sheet pic.JPG

 

==============================================================================================

 

Motor List

Laminated

  • Gizi Winder w/BB
  • Kemtron 503- X
  • Kemtron 503-8
  • Kemtron Bronco SR22
  • Kemtron Mustang SR21
  • Mini DV18D-8
  • Mini DV18E
  • Pittman DC65
  • Pittman DC65-6
  • Pittman DC-84
  • Pittman DC-85
  • Ram 857-6
  • Ram DC850
  • Russkitt  41
  • Strombecker Destroyer 8473

In-line less axle bracket.

  • AristoCraft R6
  • K&S MR 1 Super
  • Mini Auto DH15
  • Mini DH13A
  • Mini DH13M
  • Mini DH18
  • Pittman DC63M
  • Pittman DC70
  • Revell RP66
  • Revell RP77
  • Strombecker Hustler
  • Tradeship MX70
  • Tradeship MX77
  • Varney KM1

In-line w/ axle bracket

  • Aristocraft 18
  • Atlas AT206
  • Atlas AT208
  • Atlas AT306
  • Atlas AT406
  • AW Stingray
  • Mini DH13M ?
  • MRRC Super 3P
  • Pittman 196A
  • Pittman 196B
  • Ram DC711
  • Ram DC711 6volt
  • Strombecker Avenger 8387
  • Strombecker Scorcher 7  8389
  • Strombecker Scuttler 8379
  • Strombecker Super Charger 8528
  • Strombecker Super Scuttler
  • Tradeship MicroMotor MN30
  • Tyco 901
  • Tyco 902
  • VIP Club

Sidewinder

  • K&B Challanger 1502
  • K&B Super Challanger 1504
  • Mila Miglia Capolupo 501
  • Pittman DC 704, 705, 706
  • Ram DC 222
  • Ram DC XL500
  • Ram DC283
  • Ram DC426A
  • Strombecker Devastator 8474
  • Tyco 952

Attached Images

  • Rods and Rails 2nd cover.jpg





#2 Gator Bob

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 02:03 PM

Motor Rule Clarification - Stock Class  Hardbody

  • Can arms be cut? - Yes  - Stock Wind and Commutator.
  • Blueprint motor? - Yes -
  • Ball bearings added? - No - (OEM Factory BB motors allowed)

 

  • Laminations - OEM full count of plates
  • Arm Balance - Allowed
  • Brushes - Any material, OEM style spring arms or brush holders.
  • Springs - Any
  • Case Assembly lightening (laminations, endbell, bushing carriers) - Not Allowed

 

 

Axle BBs - Allowed


Bob Israelite

#3 Gator Bob

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 04:36 PM

Body Rule Clarification - Stock Class  Hardbody

 

Term - "Full Street Trim"

 

  • 'Glue on' exterior trim such as rear view mirrors, door handles, hood ornaments, antennas, etc. are Not Required.

Bob Israelite

#4 Gator Bob

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 02:39 AM

I have received some rule questions that need clarification.

 

  • Modern or Vintage Guide flag
  • Silicone lead wire
  • Rear wheels and/or tires can be modern or vintage. Any compound allowed. Builders can chose to mix and match wheels or put new rubber on vintage wheels. Minimum Dia. of 1”.
  • Guide flag nuts
  1. Opaque guides - Black preferred -  If you must use a modern guide braids must be mounted with screws (as shown below).
  2. Silicone lead wire does not meet the vintage 1967 spirit gauge
  3. Modern rears - inserts preferred if not CNC detailed (as shown below).
  4. Flag retainers. - Brass weights did come threaded, set screw or as both threaded and set screw. Standard metallic 10/32 nuts are allowed but modern machined metallic or molded plastic nuts are not allowed

 

IMG_3424.JPG


Bob Israelite

#5 Gator Bob

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 11:05 PM

Motor Rule Update

 

The Kemtron SR-20 'Pancake' motor is approved for competition in in all classes.


Bob Israelite

#6 Gator Bob

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 04:39 PM

Important Note:

 

 

Track is wired positive (drivers) right.


Bob Israelite

#7 Gator Bob

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 09:16 PM

Here is a link that is a great parts date reference.

 

Thanks to Steve Okeefe.

 

http://slotblog.net/...-chassis-parts/


Bob Israelite

#8 Gator Bob

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 04:14 PM

msg-1314-0-85382200-1430858492.jpg


Bob Israelite

#9 Gator Bob

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 09:46 PM

Ok Gents ...

now that the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat has worn down I unlocked this thread to give us a place to discuss how to continually improve 'our' event for 2016.

 

1> Glue is our biggest enemy.

2> Does 'everyone's' cars need to be posted and approved by the other owners like we did in the "Balls Out" Choti Proxy to avoid any post race legality conflict? 


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#10 SlotStox#53

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 10:09 PM

The posting of cars sounds a good idea overall to sort out any possible issues if it's needed, although how would that work out for competitors who aren't members of the blog?

Would any possible date stamp issues come up for those be covered by the hard working tech inspector on the day ?

Could always make it where people post the list of parts to be used in the build?

Then once finished, pictures posted for the final once over rubber stamp?

Glue sounds like one of the main issues along with the guides (got to find some more Cox guides I'm out lol)

#11 SlotStox#53

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 11:45 AM

Some more points /questions that maybe an idea to clarify...

If a car turns up and is found to be outside of specification, rule/s,are they still allowed to race? What, if any penalties would be given,time addition or things like that?

Also, just incase anyone else has confusion over the time slips showing red light/loss and position of car in final table despite red lighting..

That the drivers reaction time/jumping the start & red lighting has no bearing on the results/qualifying. It's purely down to elapsed times...

#12 Gator Bob

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 12:01 PM

Some more points /questions that maybe an idea to clarify...

If a car turns up and is found to be outside of specification, rule/s,are they still allowed to race? What, if any penalties would be given,time addition or things like that?

 

Next year cars will be 'inspected' by your peers. This will be done like the 'Balls Out' California Choti proxy race that Jarius Watson promoted.

Also, just incase anyone else has confusion over the time slips showing red light/loss and position of car in final table despite red lighting..

That the drivers reaction time/jumping the start & red lighting has no bearing on the results/qualifying. It's purely down to elapsed times...

 

It's all about the cars performance, not the drivers.

 

Do you guys want to run them one car at a time like the V-Town event?

 

Should we limit the field to 16 eligible class cars like the 2014 R&R race?

 

Then every car could be dialed in/tuned to the track on a 100% clean lane and shut down.

 

I set the classes up this year like the V-Town but none of those guys showed, I set up the Unlimited class to accommodate those that said 'no-neo, no-race'. Guess what...they didn't show either. Trying to accommodate too many people didn't work out that great.  

 

If there is any interest in setting up a single rule set for a national series I'm game. 

 

I don't expect a big crowd of racers sharing in the fun if we run one car at a time.


Bob Israelite

#13 SlotStox#53

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 12:11 PM

"Should we limit the field to 16 eligible class cars like the 2014 R&R race?"

Having a real brain fart :laugh2: but I'm just not totally understanding this ...

A max of 16 cars per class?

Keep it 2 cars at a time /head to head , if you're able to sort video out for next year the head 2 head looks Sooooo much better :good: rewatching the Pinching Bug V the Ramcharger ghost is priceless :D

Keep the unlimited as I've got a half finished car that can be finished as long as it still has a class to run in :laugh2:

 

#14 dc-65x

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 12:31 PM

Hi Bob,

 

I was proud to be an event sponsor and support your Proxy Racing. Now that the race is over, there is a discussion about next year's event and wondering why the V-Town racers didn't enter I hope it's OK to make some comments.

 

These are not meant as criticisms but rather simply as "food for thought":

 

Rodney and I didn't enter because of the many, many, many "rules". If you review the V-Town rules you'll see a much simpler format.

 

Also, our personal preference is for hard body cars for vintage drag racing. I love vac body cars but the vast majority of drag cars in the 60's seem to have been hard body. I believe if I wanted to enter a hard body there was only a "stock" class available. Otherwise I'd be mixed in with vac body cars in the other classes.

 

The V-Town event ran the cars one at a time.

 

Lastly, the glue situation. Here's what Rodney did to handle the glue in the shut down area:

 

"The track was cleaned.  After each run, the front and rear tires were cleaned with naphtha to remove the shut down glue.  During the second weekend, a couple of racers glued up the track and their tires.  I chased them off and cleaned the track and got after the glue racers. With Germans and urethane's, the cars were about .2 seconds slower with glue.  Also, cars with drop arms and high powered motors would not launch correctly with glue.  They would de-slot."

 

Again, A big THANK YOU to you Bob for all your hard work.


Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
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#15 SlotStox#53

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 01:35 PM

Can see your worry of hard body V vac formed performance wise, if it's of any use pretty much the whole field this year ran hard bodies :good: only 1 or 2 vac formed ones that I know of were used..

My VW won it's class this year with a Tamiya kit shell on and was .1 slower than last year with its Lancer formed one. Only reason for the time is due to mucho more hp than last year causing slot popping :laugh2: nothing to do with the body..

Would love to race against yours and Rodney's cars Rick :D some very serious competition. ...

#16 Gator Bob

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 03:56 PM

Rick, what you say is respected and considered constructive.

 

I can see the point on Vac bodies as not being a 60s staple in drags but I'm not convinced yet that the is as big of an advantage as I perceived.  

I agree that there are to many rules and maybe to many classes since we don't run 12/24/36v.

 

BTW: Your hardbody Cobra would have probably taken the Rods title.  ;)

 

Lets continue to work together to improve proxy drag racing and thank you for your support. :good:

I really like those wheels you sent ... I didn't 'win' any though... LOL. I put them out as a kinda hard luck award.


Bob Israelite

#17 dc-65x

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 06:50 PM

Thank you Bob, I really do want to be constructive.  What you are doing for vintage drag racing is really cool and much appreciated.

 

Our not allowing vac bodies in the V-Town race was not for any performance issue. It was simply to make the event more like a vintage event from the period.

 

The way the "glue thing" was handled by Rodney was pretty "period vintage" too. The racing part of the track was a clean, high gloss and glue free zone. It was kind of like the high gloss Formica strips in the day....I know that's a bit of a stretch but it was clean and high gloss. Low and behold, clean vintage "German" tires hooked up well just like they did on the 60's tracks. Better still, currently available reproduction vintage urethane tires hood up great too.

 

I was planning a build for your event. I was going to make a scale slot car version of the rail in the AMT Double Dragster model kit. I knew it wouldn't be the fastest car of course but I thought it would be a really fun build and look killer on the strip. Then I read a post by a blogger who was building his car. He said he'd have to lengthen it to meet the 8" minimum length rule. The Double Dragster Rail is way shorter than that. I would of had to make it several inches longer and I thought it just wouldn't look right......one too many rules for my entrant I guess.


Rick Thigpen
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#18 boxerdog

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 09:43 PM

I guess I am the only entrant who ran at both the Florida and V-town races. I was only at V-town for the second weekend (I didn't know that there was a "first" weekend until I got there). So I didn't get to see all of the cars make their passes.

 

I'd certainly like to see a unified set of classes, including a hard-body limitation in the future. To be practical, I would like to see modern guides and rear rubber allowed.

 

I think the head-to-head races are much more realistic and should be the norm, along with the publishing of brackets and time slips. Keeps things a lot more interesting and I like the idea of getting the "locals" involved as drivers as well.

 

JMO


David Cummerow

#19 Gator Bob

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 11:30 PM

Thank you Bob, I really do want to be constructive.  What you are doing for vintage drag racing is really cool and much appreciated.

 

I'm good with constructive. Thanks Rick I'm tryin'. The cool part is the slate is still clean and we can make it into what we want it to be. I'm optimistic that we can find common ground on rules and procedures to make it all 'Fun'.

 

Our not allowing vac bodies in the V-Town race was not for any performance issue. It was simply to make the event more like a vintage event from the period.

 

Personally I think there is a place for Vac bodies. This car, formally Don's (which I absolutely love) fits in my 'stereo viewer' of vintage drags. Then again I wasn't 'been there, done that'.

 

The way the "glue thing" was handled by Rodney was pretty "period vintage" too. The racing part of the track was a clean, high gloss and glue free zone. It was kind of like the high gloss Formica strips in the day....I know that's a bit of a stretch but it was clean and high gloss. Low and behold, clean vintage "German" tires hooked up well just like they did on the 60's tracks. Better still, currently available reproduction vintage urethane tires hood up great too.

 

I hate friggin glue. I rather grease my tractor or do  wheel bearings. 

 

My view on tires is ... we gotta allow modern in the mix even though they can be a disadvantage. These cars seam to like some 'wheel speed' because they don't have wheelie bars. Just like the front engine 60s rails.

 

To grow this segment we can't totally rely on epay or secret stashes.  We need more guys like Rgeo Rick to step up. If it grows and we can prove demand more will come. Maybe Pro/Track or someone will make hard tall and skinny open cell tires with CNC Halibrand's. 

 

Track owners need to sell something like tires, axles, bearings, guides...etc. We gotta help keep them going, we need more tracks involved.

 

I was planning a build for your event. I was going to make a scale slot car version of the rail in the AMT Double Dragster model kit. I knew it wouldn't be the fastest car of course but I thought it would be a really fun build and look killer on the strip.

Oh ... It sure as hell would.

 

Then I read a post by a blogger who was building his car. He said he'd have to lengthen it to meet the 8" minimum length rule. The Double Dragster Rail is way shorter than that. I would of had to make it several inches longer and I thought it just wouldn't look right......one too many rules for my entrant I guess.

 

I want everyone to run what they like .... That fit the exhibition class ;)


Bob Israelite

#20 hiline2

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Posted 01 June 2015 - 11:59 AM

Im in this because it's the fun first ! When I saw the opportunity to dig out my old  stuff and do my best to make it run I got excited ! I never got to run in any Slot Drag races in the 60's. At the time there wasn't any tracks I knew of that had a drag strip. I had bought and built up a Russkit rail with Pittman motor and all hoping Id get a chance to do it (never happened, life moved on and my mom gave off my stuff !) 

 

As to the question of hardbody/vac ? my first real racer I won races with was a Dynamic frame, Kemtron motor and dynamic BIG slicks with a Vac GS Vette body on it (this in 1965) If I had that car today it wouldnt be legit in a vintage drag race?

 

I am hoping to have a car or more for the next big proxy races, hard body, a 62 Vette in Gasser class (see my icon pic) and a 64 Dodge, maybe more.

 

Im going to do try and tune up the rails (and add one or 2 more)  Ive got Russkit rails (blue) to buld, Re-pop Red and  2 more in plain aluminum, Also a Brass Kemtron chassis that Mr Gator B is tweeking a kemtron/Ram to go in it!

 

I'm even looking into and considering finding a Drag Track (one over in Dallas) that could become the 3rd track in this Proxy program ! They are big into glue so Ill have to see what they would consider about cleaning!

 

There does seem to be several participants in this proxy who are willing to  share/sell/trade parts and help others to build/tune up cars that allowing some minimal modern parts (guide flags, tires, gears) will seem to work but I do like the idea of more re-pop parts becoming available, Ive had folks contact me (after I posted some of my photos on FB) looking for the rails and more etc.

 

I'm wondering if those others who are Texans would like to work up ideas for becoming the 3rd location for  this kind of racing lets chat !


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Paul Bass

#21 SlotStox#53

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Posted 01 June 2015 - 12:13 PM

By the sound of your original dynamic framed car it would of been perfectly legal for the Rods & Rails :good:

Certainly appears you will be more than ready to burn up the strip in next year's event Paul :D

#22 Gator Bob

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Posted 01 June 2015 - 08:43 PM

Paul B. If your mom throw'ed it out, let's build up a replacement. What color was yours? Sounds like a very cool car .. I love that DuBro Grand Sport.

Bodies for sale - http://www.professor...&show=20&page=2

 

 

Now ... back to the future ... :wacko2:  :laugh2:

 

Please solicit/explain the proxy concept to your local track.

It takes a special kinda people to do this proxy gig stuff, care custody,control and safe return of the fleet is paramount. 

 

We don't have to reinvent the wheel on divisions ... the NHRA map region map works ... to start.

 

  • 2016 Goal: Get one race in each region.

 

trackmap.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 


Bob Israelite

#23 Gator Bob

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Posted 01 June 2015 - 09:22 PM

I guess I am the only entrant who ran at both the Florida and V-town races. I was only at V-town for the second weekend (I didn't know that there was a "first" weekend until I got there). So I didn't get to see all of the cars make their passes.

 

Veteran proxy guy .. not just drags.

 

I'd certainly like to see a unified set of classes,

Agree

 

including a hard-body limitation in the future.

Disagree - I think there is room for both hard and vacuum pulled, even blister packaging bodies, ...  maybe not run together. Scale, prototype, thingie ... creations encouraged.

If you like a flying chicken dragster or a backwards VW... so be it.

  

To be practical, I would like to see modern guides.

Agree - Think this will have to be a (near?) must .. they are currently working at all modern tracks. It really 'mucks-up' the program with timing light issues.

 

and rear rubber allowed.

 Agree

 

I think the head-to-head races are much more realistic and should be the norm, along with the publishing of brackets and time slips. Keeps things a lot more interesting and I like the idea of getting the "locals" involved as drivers as well.

Agree -

  • More people have fun sharing these gems.
  • They like to race .. and that takes two cars.
  • Generates more enthusiast to join .. I've got 3 guys that drove for us got the bug, I'm going to do a motor/chassis introduction. They want to add a vintage  to their weekly bracket racing fleet entries.  That alone might lead to more ... 'we want more'

 

 

JMO


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Bob Israelite

#24 SlotStox#53

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Posted 01 June 2015 - 11:19 PM

All sounds good so far Bob with the overall spread of ideas etc :good:

Which modern guides work fine on Bill's strip? If we know which one/s just make it use "this one"

I know the Cox quick change and screw in braid guides recorded fine looking at our team time slips. Would these still be allowed ?

Infact, the Fiat 500 was running the modern TSRF routed wood track guide and that tripped the lights fine :)

Great to here some of the Florida locals are hooked :D Look forward to seeing what they come up with.

#25 JohnnySlotcar

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Posted 01 June 2015 - 11:38 PM

These cars are going 35 mph,so no glue needed in shutdown area, if the track doesnt want to do this, then an alternate needs to be found. How long does it take to clean a track? That is why I did not enter.


John Austin

#26 boxerdog

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 08:37 AM

These cars are going 35 mph,so no glue needed in shutdown area, if the track doesnt want to do this, then an alternate needs to be found. How long does it take to clean a track? That is why I did not enter.

We've talked about other methods of stopping the cars, but parachutes are marginal and get in the gears, etc. Maybe electrical methods like a shorted lane or even reverse. Fact is, the cars won't take much of a hit and glue has been a necessary evil so far. It sure slows the race down too, I would imagine. Maybe an "arrestor" like an aircraft carrier? Basically a bungee cord??

 

I think Bob mentioned the black Parma guide?? I am going to try those. I hate dying stuff anyway.

 

Good discussion, and I like the point that we don't really want to depend on rare or expensive Ebay stuff any more than we have to.


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#27 Gator Bob

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 09:27 AM

These cars are going 35 mph,so no glue needed in shutdown area, if the track doesnt want to do this, then an alternate needs to be found. How long does it take to clean a track? That is why I did not enter.

 

Johnny, It's seams to be more the momentum due to the mass than the trap speed of the car.

My Hurst/Olds 'overcame the glue' ...and 'bashed' the pillows with 22 MPH passes. But ...it is,  the not very popular 2 motor arrangement. 


Bob Israelite

#28 Gator Bob

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 09:38 AM

We've talked about other methods of stopping the cars, but parachutes are marginal and get in the gears, etc. Maybe electrical methods like a shorted lane or even reverse. Fact is, the cars won't take much of a hit and glue has been a necessary evil so far. It sure slows the race down too, I would imagine. Maybe an "arrestor" like an aircraft carrier? Basically a bungee cord??

 

With modern short shut down lanes we will need to come up with a workaround. The wheels are turning in my head :wacko2:  :laugh2: 

 

I think Bob mentioned the black Parma guide?? I am going to try those. I hate dying stuff anyway.

 

Yes ..

Parma -The Blade - Graphite -  #70222S

For 1/8th post I think the Cox is the only working option.

 

Two major fails - the upgraded 'LASER' LEDs shined right through a Black dyed flag .. I was shocked.  The brush/braid screws used on a bunch of the cars we too long as they were not cut off flush with the bottom of the guide.

 

Good discussion, and I like the point that we don't really want to depend on rare or expensive Ebay stuff any more than we have to.


Bob Israelite

#29 Gator Bob

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 09:41 AM

All sounds good so far Bob with the overall spread of ideas etc :good:

Which modern guides work fine on Bill's strip? If we know which one/s just make it use "this one"

I know the Cox quick change and screw in braid guides recorded fine looking at our team time slips. Would these still be allowed ?

Infact, the Fiat 500 was running the modern TSRF routed wood track guide and that tripped the lights fine :)

Great to here some of the Florida locals are hooked :D Look forward to seeing what they come up with.

 

Parma # above. 

Cox worked OK but not 100% reliable as I pulled a 'no-speed' run with a Cox.

 

I think the TSRF would be OK .. now, will Parma or TSRF step up as a supporter? :D


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#30 SlotStox#53

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 10:36 AM

Gotcha :good:

Maybe just say forget the screw in braid modifications and accept modern guide clips?

Would be neat having them sponsor/support the proxy :D

#31 boxerdog

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 07:44 PM

Is there a Slick 7 guide that works for sure?? That might be another option, and we could always check in with Rudy about sponsoring a class.....


David Cummerow

#32 BillB

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 10:05 AM

David,

 

I primarily use Parma's but have used other brands like Slick 7, Koford and Cahoza. No problems with any of them as far as activating the starting lights. Most likely any of the graphite guide flags will work fine. I believe another problem with the vintage guide flags besides the reflective issue is their length. They are a bit shorter and inconsistent in activating the modern track sensors, sometimes requiring a deep stage in order to activate the start cycle.

 

Sponsors Welcomed!!!


Bill Bilancio

#33 Michael Cannon Jr

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 11:48 AM

Love this thread. Learned a ton!!!
Michael Cannon
Upstate Speedway
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(803) 341-1982
michael.cannonjr@gmail.com

#34 SlotStox#53

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 02:57 PM

Been lookin at all the rules, including the V-Town ones and was wondering if it might work by taking those rules and just adding a few bits?

Add in about vac formed shells, up the setting on the wayback machine from their 65 to the Rods and Rails 1967 hardware cutoff :good:

Rear wheel/tire combos are all good with modern sponge/urethane etc plus vintage Germans etc.

Keep all classes or reduce, keep the Rods & Rails Unlimited :D

The motor rules seem simple, any padlock or open frame mill, endplates/lams and arm mods whether freshly wound or vintage allowed across all classes. No rare earth magnets except in Unlimited :good:


Modern guides (modern guide clips optional) maybe keep the Cox guide option as they work for the most part and people may have cars all setup on them..

Are you joining us for next year's race Michael? :)
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#35 Gator Bob

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 08:30 PM

OK .. let's look at last years rules. Time for editing .

I think by trying to make sub-classes for the Rods to more closely resemble the V-Town rules didn't work out that well or make very much sense to break it up only by body style since we don't run 12/24/36 voltages.

 

What do you guys think?

I will refer back to this post with items up for tuning.

 

Key areas:

Red= problem area

Gold = needs discussion

Green = ok

  • Race date is May 16, 2015
  • Registration closes April 16, 2015
  • Heads up racing. It's about the cars.
  • Track voltage at 14.7.
  • Scale 1000 ft. trap -
  • Heavy glue shutdown
  • Track braid depth is .010 
  • All cars make passes both lanes
  • ALL Vintage running gear and gears. 48p or 64p. Modern pinion accepted.
  • Modern or Vintage Guide flag blade portion must be black or have foil reflective tape on blade to prevent ‘No Time’ displayed or ‘Can’t Stage’ issues.
  • Rear wheels and/or tires can be modern or vintage. Any compound allowed. Builders can chose to mix and match wheels or put new rubber on vintage wheels. Minimum Dia. of 1”.
  • Front Wheels and tires must be 67 or before vintage. Min Dia. – 7/8. No Min. width, O rings allowed.
  • Front tires may not be more than 1/16th off the race surface at the starting line.
  • No weight rule.
  • 3.25 maximum width
  • 8 inch maximum overall length for “Rods”
  • 11 inch maximum overall length for “Rails”
  • Only laminated motors allowed, any mods - except no Neo or Cobalt magnets.
  • Any chassis design or materials, we can't put the Genie back in the bottle ... it's been tried.
  • No wheelie bars. (except Exhibition Classes)
  • Bodies - Reproduction or vintage - any hard body model, vacuum pulled clear, Styrene, or hand craft made (wood, tin, alum, plastic, brass, etc.).
  • Vac formed Thingy bodies allowed in “Rods” as a Comp Coupe class car if under 8” maximum or “Rails” over 8” maximum 
  • No modern Pro/Mod looking bodies regardless of year the concept was created from.
  • “Rods” 1967 cut-off for components and OEM body style.
  • Stock Class 1955 to 1967 hard body only.
  • Car Model Technical Journal of Model Car Racing Volume #1 * is the component timestamp guide.
  • $10.00 entry fee for the first car.  $7.50 for each car thereafter.
  • All shipping charges to and from the event and any requested return insurance/customs costs are on the racer.
  • Cars will be returned in original senders package. Please pack accordingly.
  • Winners trophy can or or will be packed with care separately as not to damage the car. Shipping of the trophy will be at the winners expense outside of the lower US 48 states.
  • Box plaque will be packed with the entries for the return trip. 

 

Stock 

  • 1/24th and 1/25th scale model body (hardbody) only.
  • Any  1955 to 1967 car that had a total production minimum of 500.
  • Stock full street OEM trim only , no 3in1 kit type customizing.
  • OE wheelwell radius and fender lip must be maintained at 80%
  • Stock Laminated or Open-Frame motors .
  • Must have full interior w/driver – Min. 3 colors req. Interior card with glued in driver allowed. Vacform acceptable.

“Rods”

  • Will combine cars with a total length of 8” or less:
  1. Sports and Modified Sports
  2. Roadster and Modified Roadster
  3. Gas
  4. Altered
  5. Competition Coupe
  • Stock or modified  Laminated or Open-Frame motors (No Neo or cobalt magnets)
  • Must have full interior w/driver – Min. 3 colors req. Interior card with glued in driver allowed. Vacform acceptable.
  •  

“Rails” Sponsored By:  post-3883-0-10047000-1418916408.jpg

  • Stock or modified  Laminated or Open-Frame motors (No Neo or cobalt magnets)
  • Total length = 8” Min and 11” Max.

Exhibition Classes

  • 'Unlimited'
  • Stock or modified Padlock or Open frame motor, neo magnets, Wheelie Bars, parachute, multi motors .... etc.
  • Any 1967 or before slot production Padlock Plate/Frame must be the platform. Modifications to the original set-up is unrestricted .  One off custom machined or hand made parts are allowed.
  •  
  • Low official E/T and High MPH Awards.

 

  • 'Wheelstander'
  • Motor can be Padlock, Open frame or Mabuchi 36D only,
  • Wheeliebars allowed.
  • Chassis – stamped or scratchbuilt.
  • Cars must be on the front wheels at the starting line and must be on two wheels the whole length and at the finish line.
  •  
  • Low officially recorded E/T Award

Bob Israelite

#36 BillB

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 09:19 PM

Ok, I'd like to discuss one of the Golden items.

 

Overall length for Rods - Should this length be the wheel base?

 

Large body cars can be over 8" bumper to bumper, example my '64 Dodge 330 measures 8-1/4". Modified Roadsters and Comp Coupes can measure over 8". If a weight bar is added in front or a parachute on the rear it could be over the limit. My suggestion is 8" axle to axle.

 

I'm in favor of having different classes, makes for an interesting and entertaining event. Like style and built cars racing side by side is exciting drag racing. With the classes running now we have a good variety and close competition. In the future maybe other classes  can be add as interest in proxy racing grows, so long as its manageable. Any suggestions?

 

I personally like the altered wheel based FX's!!! :good:

 

 


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#37 SlotStox#53

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 10:47 PM

Funny you mention those altered wheelbase FX cars Bill ,been looking quite closely at the Dodge Coronet & 66 charger AFX's :D

Would make some very sweet padlock proxy cars.

With a few of the Golden issues above , keep it with the 1967 cutoff, I don't think anyone has any issues with this?

Front wheels & tires, keep as is or just make it the same as the rears. Either all vintage or modern or mix & match.

No wheelie bars as that is part of the fun keeping the cars in the slot :laugh2: it's vintage and they wouldn't look right with them.

#38 Gator Bob

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 01:44 AM

Ok, I'd like to discuss one of the Golden items.

 

Overall length for Rods - Should this length be the wheel base?

 

Large body cars can be over 8" bumper to bumper, example my '64 Dodge 330 measures 8-1/4". Modified Roadsters and Comp Coupes can measure over 8". If a weight bar is added in front or a parachute on the rear it could be over the limit. My suggestion is 8" axle to axle.

 

I'm in favor of having different classes, makes for an interesting and entertaining event. Like style and built cars racing side by side is exciting drag racing. With the classes running now we have a good variety and close competition. In the future maybe other classes  can be add as interest in proxy racing grows, so long as its manageable. Any suggestions?

 

I personally like the altered wheel based FX's!!! :good:

 

 

LOL .. I used yellow but even I couldn't read it. 

Just re-living the Golden years;)

 

===

 

Length:

  • Open for change.  Does it need to be a rule?
  • Should it be overall length or wheelbase?
  • I can't remember where that came from - from the modern drag rule set or from the vintage magazine articles (or a mix of both)
  • 8" WB for Rods class is a valid suggestion.

 

Classes:

  • We have (had) nine.
  • Should we drop any? Those with low participation.
  • Do we need to add or change any classes,... 36D can Rails (?), other...
  • I like putting the Sports with the Sports and the Comp Coupes running against each other.
  • What I don't like is with using a single voltage the Sports (lower) class cars are as fast (or faster) as the Comp Coupe (highest) class car. To far from the real world of racing IMO.
  • Being limited to 'one voltage' an alterative (but not a great one) could be to used fixed value resistors in the different classes.
  • There seems to be more guys wanting to run side by side vs. all single runs.

 

The 10,000 ft. 'top down' view.

  • We should determine if these are to be national rules or just rules for the 3rd annual in Melbourne.
  • There wasn't much feedback on using the NHRA Divisional map.
  • I have a good idea on nominees for some of the Regional Directors. 
  • Do we really want it to grow to that level?

Bob Israelite

#39 dc-65x

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 10:39 AM

Here is what my heavy (and fast) Cobra looked like after failing to be stopped in even a heavy glue shutdown area and a bunch of towels:

 

 

Black%20427%20Cobra%20sports%20car%20Cap

 

Just food for thought. Maybe some experimentation would yield better results.

 

Again, here's how Rodney handled the glue in the shutdown area issue:

 

"The track was cleaned.  After each run, the front and rear tires were cleaned with naphtha to remove the shut down glue."

 

 

 

 


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The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#40 hiline2

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 04:20 PM

Gator B, I didnt know we were supposed to comment om the zones/areas, If I can work a track here then that idea would work I think for here. As for rules, "WE dont need No stinkin rules" , Just kidding, So far its the game we have all bought into so other then melding the CAL and FL bunch rules (looks lik.k a good  job to me above). As one would say, "it's your ball, run with it" :victory:


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#41 BillB

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 04:32 PM

I'd say keep the classes we have and drum up interest in the ones with low counts. Add a few new ones if the interest is there.

 

Good point about the slower cars running faster then the fast cars should. Power regulation and or weight minimums could help with the real world racing effect .

 

Or leave it as is and race "Balls Out"  :laugh2:

 

A National set of rules will be a great step forward in the growth of proxy drag racing. An association with a cool name and a couple of new venues. :good:

 


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Bill Bilancio

#42 Gator Bob

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 12:16 AM

   VSRA - Vintage Slot Racers Association

 

VSRA Chart.JPG

 

.

.

                                                       trackmap.jpg


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Bob Israelite

#43 Gator Bob

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 05:15 PM

Here is what my heavy (and fast) Cobra looked like after failing to be stopped in even a heavy glue shutdown area and a bunch of towels:

 

Black%20427%20Cobra%20sports%20car%20Cap

 

 

Just food for thought. Maybe some experimentation would yield better results.

 

Again, here's how Rodney handled the glue in the shutdown area issue:

 

"The track was cleaned.  After each run, the front and rear tires were cleaned with naphtha to remove the shut down glue."

 

 

 

 

 

Dude ... you ran it into the whole damn Laundromat.   :laugh2:

 

An old school term for 'popping the chute' was ..... "letting out the laundry"  :clapping:

 

"Howie and the Magnesium's" said beware parachute woman hits hard :good:


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#44 idare2bdul

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 01:48 AM

The Motorama track in the San Fernando Valley, CA had a box at the end of the track filled with either a silk or nylon material, probably from a parachute. It worked reasonably well without damaging the cars. It worked less well when somebody put a phone book under the material.


The light at the end of the tunnel is almost always a train.
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#45 hiline2

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 09:40 AM

Maybe we need some of those pillows shown on TV with all the chunky foam in them !! :friends:


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#46 Gator Bob

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 06:53 PM

Maybe we need some of those pillows shown on TV with all the chunky foam in them !! :friends:

 

The Official Pillow of the Sleep Foundation.  :boredom:  ^_^   

Those must be soooo comfortable .. " Sleep with one eye open  :lazy: wake ya up if anyone starts getting close to hitting the pillow or a bad dream" :laugh2:

 

Sandman.JPG

 

 


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#47 dc-65x

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 07:14 PM

For most cars stopping them won't be a problem. But, as you know, 427 Cobras have..........

 

LUDICROUS SPEED!  :laugh2: :crazy:

 

4 LUDICROUS SPEED.jpg


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The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#48 Gator Bob

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 08:22 PM

 

===

 

Length:

  • Open for change.  Does it need to be a rule?
  • Should it be overall length or wheelbase?
  • I can't remember where that came from - from the modern drag rule set or from the vintage magazine articles (or a mix of both)
  • 8" WB for Rods class is a valid suggestion.

How about 5" min WB for Rails. Max length for Rails or Comp Coupe to same as sanctioned MC or CM vintage magazine rule.

 

 

Classes:

  • We have (had) nine.
  • Should we drop any? Those with low participation.
  • Do we need to add or change any classes,... 36D can Rails (?), other...
  • I like putting the Sports with the Sports and the Comp Coupes running against each other.
  • What I don't like is with using a single voltage the Sports (lower) class cars are as fast (or faster) as the Comp Coupe (highest) class car. To far from the real world of racing IMO.
  • Being limited to 'one voltage' an alterative (but not a great one) could be to used fixed value resistors in the different classes.
  • There seems to be more guys wanting to run side by side vs. all single runs.

 

The 10,000 ft. 'top down' view.

  • We should determine if these are to be national rules or just rules for the 3rd annual in Melbourne.
  • There wasn't much feedback on using the NHRA Divisional map.
  • I have a good idea on nominees for some of the Regional Directors. 
  • Do we really want it to grow to that level?

 


Bob Israelite

#49 Gator Bob

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 02:05 PM

 

 

===

 

Length:

  • Open for change.  Does it need to be a rule?
  • Should it be overall length or wheelbase?
  • I can't remember where that came from - from the modern drag rule set or from the vintage magazine articles (or a mix of both)
  • 8" WB for Rods class is a valid suggestion.

How about 5" min WB for Rails. Max length for Rails or Comp Coupe to same as sanctioned MC or CM vintage magazine rule.

 

 

Classes:

  • We have (had) nine.
  • Should we drop any? Those with low participation.
  • Do we need to add or change any classes,... 36D can Rails (?), other...
  • I like putting the Sports with the Sports and the Comp Coupes running against each other.
  • What I don't like is with using a single voltage the Sports (lower) class cars are as fast (or faster) as the Comp Coupe (highest) class car. To far from the real world of racing IMO.
  • Being limited to 'one voltage' an alterative (but not a great one) could be to used fixed value resistors in the different classes.
  • There seems to be more guys wanting to run side by side vs. all single runs.

 

The 10,000 ft. 'top down' view.

  • We should determine if these are to be national rules or just rules for the 3rd annual in Melbourne.
  • There wasn't much feedback on using the NHRA Divisional map.
  • I have a good idea on nominees for some of the Regional Directors. 
  • Do we really want it to grow to that level?

 

 

Bump - Length/Wheelbase 


Bob Israelite

#50 tonyp

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 06:30 AM

With 3 nice oval tracks in Florida how about a proxy oval event. Now we all know we all used to run Indy or F1 bodies on our dynamics or asps or whatever because they handled better than sports cars. An asp with a red ball special body and a 3 volt aristocrat armature in it brings a smile to my face.
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