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“Rods and Rails” - 2nd Annual Drag Proxy rules


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#26 boxerdog

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 08:37 AM

These cars are going 35 mph,so no glue needed in shutdown area, if the track doesnt want to do this, then an alternate needs to be found. How long does it take to clean a track? That is why I did not enter.

We've talked about other methods of stopping the cars, but parachutes are marginal and get in the gears, etc. Maybe electrical methods like a shorted lane or even reverse. Fact is, the cars won't take much of a hit and glue has been a necessary evil so far. It sure slows the race down too, I would imagine. Maybe an "arrestor" like an aircraft carrier? Basically a bungee cord??

 

I think Bob mentioned the black Parma guide?? I am going to try those. I hate dying stuff anyway.

 

Good discussion, and I like the point that we don't really want to depend on rare or expensive Ebay stuff any more than we have to.


David Cummerow




#27 Gator Bob

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 09:27 AM

These cars are going 35 mph,so no glue needed in shutdown area, if the track doesnt want to do this, then an alternate needs to be found. How long does it take to clean a track? That is why I did not enter.

 

Johnny, It's seams to be more the momentum due to the mass than the trap speed of the car.

My Hurst/Olds 'overcame the glue' ...and 'bashed' the pillows with 22 MPH passes. But ...it is,  the not very popular 2 motor arrangement. 


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#28 Gator Bob

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 09:38 AM

We've talked about other methods of stopping the cars, but parachutes are marginal and get in the gears, etc. Maybe electrical methods like a shorted lane or even reverse. Fact is, the cars won't take much of a hit and glue has been a necessary evil so far. It sure slows the race down too, I would imagine. Maybe an "arrestor" like an aircraft carrier? Basically a bungee cord??

 

With modern short shut down lanes we will need to come up with a workaround. The wheels are turning in my head :wacko2:  :laugh2: 

 

I think Bob mentioned the black Parma guide?? I am going to try those. I hate dying stuff anyway.

 

Yes ..

Parma -The Blade - Graphite -  #70222S

For 1/8th post I think the Cox is the only working option.

 

Two major fails - the upgraded 'LASER' LEDs shined right through a Black dyed flag .. I was shocked.  The brush/braid screws used on a bunch of the cars we too long as they were not cut off flush with the bottom of the guide.

 

Good discussion, and I like the point that we don't really want to depend on rare or expensive Ebay stuff any more than we have to.


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#29 Gator Bob

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 09:41 AM

All sounds good so far Bob with the overall spread of ideas etc :good:

Which modern guides work fine on Bill's strip? If we know which one/s just make it use "this one"

I know the Cox quick change and screw in braid guides recorded fine looking at our team time slips. Would these still be allowed ?

Infact, the Fiat 500 was running the modern TSRF routed wood track guide and that tripped the lights fine :)

Great to here some of the Florida locals are hooked :D Look forward to seeing what they come up with.

 

Parma # above. 

Cox worked OK but not 100% reliable as I pulled a 'no-speed' run with a Cox.

 

I think the TSRF would be OK .. now, will Parma or TSRF step up as a supporter? :D


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#30 SlotStox#53

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 10:36 AM

Gotcha :good:

Maybe just say forget the screw in braid modifications and accept modern guide clips?

Would be neat having them sponsor/support the proxy :D

#31 boxerdog

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 07:44 PM

Is there a Slick 7 guide that works for sure?? That might be another option, and we could always check in with Rudy about sponsoring a class.....


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#32 BillB

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 10:05 AM

David,

 

I primarily use Parma's but have used other brands like Slick 7, Koford and Cahoza. No problems with any of them as far as activating the starting lights. Most likely any of the graphite guide flags will work fine. I believe another problem with the vintage guide flags besides the reflective issue is their length. They are a bit shorter and inconsistent in activating the modern track sensors, sometimes requiring a deep stage in order to activate the start cycle.

 

Sponsors Welcomed!!!


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#33 Michael Jr.

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 11:48 AM

Love this thread. Learned a ton!!!

Michael Cannon Jr


#34 SlotStox#53

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 02:57 PM

Been lookin at all the rules, including the V-Town ones and was wondering if it might work by taking those rules and just adding a few bits?

Add in about vac formed shells, up the setting on the wayback machine from their 65 to the Rods and Rails 1967 hardware cutoff :good:

Rear wheel/tire combos are all good with modern sponge/urethane etc plus vintage Germans etc.

Keep all classes or reduce, keep the Rods & Rails Unlimited :D

The motor rules seem simple, any padlock or open frame mill, endplates/lams and arm mods whether freshly wound or vintage allowed across all classes. No rare earth magnets except in Unlimited :good:


Modern guides (modern guide clips optional) maybe keep the Cox guide option as they work for the most part and people may have cars all setup on them..

Are you joining us for next year's race Michael? :)
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#35 Gator Bob

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 08:30 PM

OK .. let's look at last years rules. Time for editing .

I think by trying to make sub-classes for the Rods to more closely resemble the V-Town rules didn't work out that well or make very much sense to break it up only by body style since we don't run 12/24/36 voltages.

 

What do you guys think?

I will refer back to this post with items up for tuning.

 

Key areas:

Red= problem area

Gold = needs discussion

Green = ok

  • Race date is May 16, 2015
  • Registration closes April 16, 2015
  • Heads up racing. It's about the cars.
  • Track voltage at 14.7.
  • Scale 1000 ft. trap -
  • Heavy glue shutdown
  • Track braid depth is .010 
  • All cars make passes both lanes
  • ALL Vintage running gear and gears. 48p or 64p. Modern pinion accepted.
  • Modern or Vintage Guide flag blade portion must be black or have foil reflective tape on blade to prevent ‘No Time’ displayed or ‘Can’t Stage’ issues.
  • Rear wheels and/or tires can be modern or vintage. Any compound allowed. Builders can chose to mix and match wheels or put new rubber on vintage wheels. Minimum Dia. of 1”.
  • Front Wheels and tires must be 67 or before vintage. Min Dia. – 7/8. No Min. width, O rings allowed.
  • Front tires may not be more than 1/16th off the race surface at the starting line.
  • No weight rule.
  • 3.25 maximum width
  • 8 inch maximum overall length for “Rods”
  • 11 inch maximum overall length for “Rails”
  • Only laminated motors allowed, any mods - except no Neo or Cobalt magnets.
  • Any chassis design or materials, we can't put the Genie back in the bottle ... it's been tried.
  • No wheelie bars. (except Exhibition Classes)
  • Bodies - Reproduction or vintage - any hard body model, vacuum pulled clear, Styrene, or hand craft made (wood, tin, alum, plastic, brass, etc.).
  • Vac formed Thingy bodies allowed in “Rods” as a Comp Coupe class car if under 8” maximum or “Rails” over 8” maximum 
  • No modern Pro/Mod looking bodies regardless of year the concept was created from.
  • “Rods” 1967 cut-off for components and OEM body style.
  • Stock Class 1955 to 1967 hard body only.
  • Car Model Technical Journal of Model Car Racing Volume #1 * is the component timestamp guide.
  • $10.00 entry fee for the first car.  $7.50 for each car thereafter.
  • All shipping charges to and from the event and any requested return insurance/customs costs are on the racer.
  • Cars will be returned in original senders package. Please pack accordingly.
  • Winners trophy can or or will be packed with care separately as not to damage the car. Shipping of the trophy will be at the winners expense outside of the lower US 48 states.
  • Box plaque will be packed with the entries for the return trip. 

 

Stock 

  • 1/24th and 1/25th scale model body (hardbody) only.
  • Any  1955 to 1967 car that had a total production minimum of 500.
  • Stock full street OEM trim only , no 3in1 kit type customizing.
  • OE wheelwell radius and fender lip must be maintained at 80%
  • Stock Laminated or Open-Frame motors .
  • Must have full interior w/driver – Min. 3 colors req. Interior card with glued in driver allowed. Vacform acceptable.

“Rods”

  • Will combine cars with a total length of 8” or less:
  1. Sports and Modified Sports
  2. Roadster and Modified Roadster
  3. Gas
  4. Altered
  5. Competition Coupe
  • Stock or modified  Laminated or Open-Frame motors (No Neo or cobalt magnets)
  • Must have full interior w/driver – Min. 3 colors req. Interior card with glued in driver allowed. Vacform acceptable.
  •  

“Rails” Sponsored By:  post-3883-0-10047000-1418916408.jpg

  • Stock or modified  Laminated or Open-Frame motors (No Neo or cobalt magnets)
  • Total length = 8” Min and 11” Max.

Exhibition Classes

  • 'Unlimited'
  • Stock or modified Padlock or Open frame motor, neo magnets, Wheelie Bars, parachute, multi motors .... etc.
  • Any 1967 or before slot production Padlock Plate/Frame must be the platform. Modifications to the original set-up is unrestricted .  One off custom machined or hand made parts are allowed.
  •  
  • Low official E/T and High MPH Awards.

 

  • 'Wheelstander'
  • Motor can be Padlock, Open frame or Mabuchi 36D only,
  • Wheeliebars allowed.
  • Chassis – stamped or scratchbuilt.
  • Cars must be on the front wheels at the starting line and must be on two wheels the whole length and at the finish line.
  •  
  • Low officially recorded E/T Award

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#36 BillB

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 09:19 PM

Ok, I'd like to discuss one of the Golden items.

 

Overall length for Rods - Should this length be the wheel base?

 

Large body cars can be over 8" bumper to bumper, example my '64 Dodge 330 measures 8-1/4". Modified Roadsters and Comp Coupes can measure over 8". If a weight bar is added in front or a parachute on the rear it could be over the limit. My suggestion is 8" axle to axle.

 

I'm in favor of having different classes, makes for an interesting and entertaining event. Like style and built cars racing side by side is exciting drag racing. With the classes running now we have a good variety and close competition. In the future maybe other classes  can be add as interest in proxy racing grows, so long as its manageable. Any suggestions?

 

I personally like the altered wheel based FX's!!! :good:

 

 


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#37 SlotStox#53

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 10:47 PM

Funny you mention those altered wheelbase FX cars Bill ,been looking quite closely at the Dodge Coronet & 66 charger AFX's :D

Would make some very sweet padlock proxy cars.

With a few of the Golden issues above , keep it with the 1967 cutoff, I don't think anyone has any issues with this?

Front wheels & tires, keep as is or just make it the same as the rears. Either all vintage or modern or mix & match.

No wheelie bars as that is part of the fun keeping the cars in the slot :laugh2: it's vintage and they wouldn't look right with them.

#38 Gator Bob

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 01:44 AM

Ok, I'd like to discuss one of the Golden items.

 

Overall length for Rods - Should this length be the wheel base?

 

Large body cars can be over 8" bumper to bumper, example my '64 Dodge 330 measures 8-1/4". Modified Roadsters and Comp Coupes can measure over 8". If a weight bar is added in front or a parachute on the rear it could be over the limit. My suggestion is 8" axle to axle.

 

I'm in favor of having different classes, makes for an interesting and entertaining event. Like style and built cars racing side by side is exciting drag racing. With the classes running now we have a good variety and close competition. In the future maybe other classes  can be add as interest in proxy racing grows, so long as its manageable. Any suggestions?

 

I personally like the altered wheel based FX's!!! :good:

 

 

LOL .. I used yellow but even I couldn't read it. 

Just re-living the Golden years;)

 

===

 

Length:

  • Open for change.  Does it need to be a rule?
  • Should it be overall length or wheelbase?
  • I can't remember where that came from - from the modern drag rule set or from the vintage magazine articles (or a mix of both)
  • 8" WB for Rods class is a valid suggestion.

 

Classes:

  • We have (had) nine.
  • Should we drop any? Those with low participation.
  • Do we need to add or change any classes,... 36D can Rails (?), other...
  • I like putting the Sports with the Sports and the Comp Coupes running against each other.
  • What I don't like is with using a single voltage the Sports (lower) class cars are as fast (or faster) as the Comp Coupe (highest) class car. To far from the real world of racing IMO.
  • Being limited to 'one voltage' an alterative (but not a great one) could be to used fixed value resistors in the different classes.
  • There seems to be more guys wanting to run side by side vs. all single runs.

 

The 10,000 ft. 'top down' view.

  • We should determine if these are to be national rules or just rules for the 3rd annual in Melbourne.
  • There wasn't much feedback on using the NHRA Divisional map.
  • I have a good idea on nominees for some of the Regional Directors. 
  • Do we really want it to grow to that level?

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                            Bob Israelite

#39 dc-65x

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 10:39 AM

Here is what my heavy (and fast) Cobra looked like after failing to be stopped in even a heavy glue shutdown area and a bunch of towels:

 

 

Black%20427%20Cobra%20sports%20car%20Cap

 

Just food for thought. Maybe some experimentation would yield better results.

 

Again, here's how Rodney handled the glue in the shutdown area issue:

 

"The track was cleaned.  After each run, the front and rear tires were cleaned with naphtha to remove the shut down glue."

 

 

 

 


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#40 hiline2

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 04:20 PM

Gator B, I didnt know we were supposed to comment om the zones/areas, If I can work a track here then that idea would work I think for here. As for rules, "WE dont need No stinkin rules" , Just kidding, So far its the game we have all bought into so other then melding the CAL and FL bunch rules (looks lik.k a good  job to me above). As one would say, "it's your ball, run with it" :victory:


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#41 BillB

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 04:32 PM

I'd say keep the classes we have and drum up interest in the ones with low counts. Add a few new ones if the interest is there.

 

Good point about the slower cars running faster then the fast cars should. Power regulation and or weight minimums could help with the real world racing effect .

 

Or leave it as is and race "Balls Out"  :laugh2:

 

A National set of rules will be a great step forward in the growth of proxy drag racing. An association with a cool name and a couple of new venues. :good:

 


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#42 Gator Bob

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 12:16 AM

   VSRA - Vintage Slot Racers Association

 

VSRA Chart.JPG

 

.

.

                                                       trackmap.jpg


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#43 Gator Bob

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 05:15 PM

Here is what my heavy (and fast) Cobra looked like after failing to be stopped in even a heavy glue shutdown area and a bunch of towels:

 

Black%20427%20Cobra%20sports%20car%20Cap

 

 

Just food for thought. Maybe some experimentation would yield better results.

 

Again, here's how Rodney handled the glue in the shutdown area issue:

 

"The track was cleaned.  After each run, the front and rear tires were cleaned with naphtha to remove the shut down glue."

 

 

 

 

 

Dude ... you ran it into the whole damn Laundromat.   :laugh2:

 

An old school term for 'popping the chute' was ..... "letting out the laundry"  :clapping:

 

"Howie and the Magnesium's" said beware parachute woman hits hard :good:


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#44 idare2bdul

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 01:48 AM

The Motorama track in the San Fernando Valley, CA had a box at the end of the track filled with either a silk or nylon material, probably from a parachute. It worked reasonably well without damaging the cars. It worked less well when somebody put a phone book under the material.


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#45 hiline2

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 09:40 AM

Maybe we need some of those pillows shown on TV with all the chunky foam in them !! :friends:


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#46 Gator Bob

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 06:53 PM

Maybe we need some of those pillows shown on TV with all the chunky foam in them !! :friends:

 

The Official Pillow of the Sleep Foundation.  :boredom:  ^_^   

Those must be soooo comfortable .. " Sleep with one eye open  :lazy: wake ya up if anyone starts getting close to hitting the pillow or a bad dream" :laugh2:

 

Sandman.JPG

 

 


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#47 dc-65x

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 07:14 PM

For most cars stopping them won't be a problem. But, as you know, 427 Cobras have..........

 

LUDICROUS SPEED!  :laugh2: :crazy:

 

4 LUDICROUS SPEED.jpg


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#48 Gator Bob

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 08:22 PM

 

===

 

Length:

  • Open for change.  Does it need to be a rule?
  • Should it be overall length or wheelbase?
  • I can't remember where that came from - from the modern drag rule set or from the vintage magazine articles (or a mix of both)
  • 8" WB for Rods class is a valid suggestion.

How about 5" min WB for Rails. Max length for Rails or Comp Coupe to same as sanctioned MC or CM vintage magazine rule.

 

 

Classes:

  • We have (had) nine.
  • Should we drop any? Those with low participation.
  • Do we need to add or change any classes,... 36D can Rails (?), other...
  • I like putting the Sports with the Sports and the Comp Coupes running against each other.
  • What I don't like is with using a single voltage the Sports (lower) class cars are as fast (or faster) as the Comp Coupe (highest) class car. To far from the real world of racing IMO.
  • Being limited to 'one voltage' an alterative (but not a great one) could be to used fixed value resistors in the different classes.
  • There seems to be more guys wanting to run side by side vs. all single runs.

 

The 10,000 ft. 'top down' view.

  • We should determine if these are to be national rules or just rules for the 3rd annual in Melbourne.
  • There wasn't much feedback on using the NHRA Divisional map.
  • I have a good idea on nominees for some of the Regional Directors. 
  • Do we really want it to grow to that level?

 


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                            Bob Israelite

#49 Gator Bob

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 02:05 PM

 

 

===

 

Length:

  • Open for change.  Does it need to be a rule?
  • Should it be overall length or wheelbase?
  • I can't remember where that came from - from the modern drag rule set or from the vintage magazine articles (or a mix of both)
  • 8" WB for Rods class is a valid suggestion.

How about 5" min WB for Rails. Max length for Rails or Comp Coupe to same as sanctioned MC or CM vintage magazine rule.

 

 

Classes:

  • We have (had) nine.
  • Should we drop any? Those with low participation.
  • Do we need to add or change any classes,... 36D can Rails (?), other...
  • I like putting the Sports with the Sports and the Comp Coupes running against each other.
  • What I don't like is with using a single voltage the Sports (lower) class cars are as fast (or faster) as the Comp Coupe (highest) class car. To far from the real world of racing IMO.
  • Being limited to 'one voltage' an alterative (but not a great one) could be to used fixed value resistors in the different classes.
  • There seems to be more guys wanting to run side by side vs. all single runs.

 

The 10,000 ft. 'top down' view.

  • We should determine if these are to be national rules or just rules for the 3rd annual in Melbourne.
  • There wasn't much feedback on using the NHRA Divisional map.
  • I have a good idea on nominees for some of the Regional Directors. 
  • Do we really want it to grow to that level?

 

 

Bump - Length/Wheelbase 


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#50 tonyp

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 06:30 AM

With 3 nice oval tracks in Florida how about a proxy oval event. Now we all know we all used to run Indy or F1 bodies on our dynamics or asps or whatever because they handled better than sports cars. An asp with a red ball special body and a 3 volt aristocrat armature in it brings a smile to my face.
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