52 replies to this topic

[Gator Bob]

"Rods and Rails"- Memorial Drag Proxy

 

This topic will only be for the Official Rules, Registrations, Timelines, and where to tune your radios if there is an actual emergency.

 

 

2^_ND Annual “Rods and Rails” Vintage Drag Proxy

• Race date is May 16, 2015
• Registration closes April 16, 2015
• Heads up racing. It's about the cars.
• Track voltage at 14.7.
• Scale 1000 ft. trap -
• Heavy glue shutdown
• Track braid depth is .010 
• All cars make passes both lanes
• ALL Vintage running gear and gears. 48p or 64p. Modern pinion accepted.
• Modern or Vintage Guide flag blade portion must be black or have foil reflective tape on blade to prevent ‘No Time’ displayed or ‘Can’t Stage’ issues.
• Rear wheels and/or tires can be modern or vintage. Any compound allowed. Builders can chose to mix and match wheels or put new rubber on vintage wheels. Minimum Dia. of 1”.
• Front Wheels and tires must be 67 or before vintage. Min Dia. – 7/8. No Min. width, O rings allowed.
• Front tires may not be more than 1/16^th off the race surface at the starting line.
• No weight rule.
• 3.25 maximum width
• 8 inch maximum overall length for “Rods”
• 11 inch maximum overall length for “Rails”
• Only laminated motors allowed, any mods - except no Neo or Cobalt magnets.
• Any chassis design or materials, we can't put the Genie back in the bottle ... it's been tried.
• No wheelie bars. (except Exhibition Classes)
• Bodies - Reproduction or vintage - any hard body model, vacuum pulled clear, Styrene, or hand craft made (wood, tin, alum, plastic, brass, etc.).
• Vac formed Thingy bodies allowed in “Rods” as a Comp Coupe class car if under 8” maximum or “Rails” over 8” maximum 
• No modern Pro/Mod looking bodies regardless of year the concept was created from.
• “Rods” 1967 cut-off for components and OEM body style.
• Stock Class 1955 to 1967 hard body only.
• Car Model Technical Journal of Model Car Racing Volume #1 * is the component timestamp guide.
• $10.00 entry fee for the first car.  $7.50 for each car thereafter.
• All shipping charges to and from the event and any requested return insurance/customs costs are on the racer.
• Cars will be returned in original senders package. Please pack accordingly.
• Winners trophy can or or will be packed with care separately as not to damage the car. Shipping of the trophy will be at the winners expense outside of the lower US 48 states.
• Box plaque will be packed with the entries for the return trip. 

 

Stock 

• 1/24th and 1/25th scale model body (hardbody) only.
• Any  1955 to 1967 car that had a total production minimum of 500.
• Stock full street OEM trim only , no 3in1 kit type customizing.
• OE wheelwell radius and fender lip must be maintained at 80%
• Stock Laminated or Open-Frame motors .
• Must have full interior w/driver – Min. 3 colors req. Interior card with glued in driver allowed. Vacform acceptable.

“Rods”

• Will combine cars with a total length of 8” or less:

1. Sports and Modified Sports
2. Roadster and Modified Roadster
3. Gas
4. Altered
5. Competition Coupe

• Stock or modified  Laminated or Open-Frame motors (No Neo or cobalt magnets)
• Must have full interior w/driver – Min. 3 colors req. Interior card with glued in driver allowed. Vacform acceptable.
•  

“Rails” Sponsored By: 

• Stock or modified  Laminated or Open-Frame motors (No Neo or cobalt magnets)
• Total length = 8” Min and 11” Max.

Exhibition Classes

• 'Unlimited'
• Stock or modified Padlock or Open frame motor, neo magnets, Wheelie Bars, parachute, multi motors .... etc.
• Any 1967 or before slot production Padlock Plate/Frame must be the platform. Modifications to the original set-up is unrestricted .  One off custom machined or hand made parts are allowed.
•  
• Low official E/T and High MPH Awards.

 

• 'Wheelstander'
• Motor can be Padlock, Open frame or Mabuchi 36D only,
• Wheeliebars allowed.
• Chassis – stamped or scratchbuilt.
• Cars must be on the front wheels at the starting line and must be on two wheels the whole length and at the finish line.
•  
• Low officially recorded E/T Award

 

 

Payment:

• Is to be paid by PayPal, CC or Cash to Track Owner – Bill Pinch via PayPal at - bpinch1@bellsouth.net with fee paid as family/friend (entrant pays PayPal fee) 
• To lock a car or cars position in the field a class is to be identified and entry fee paid no later than 3 days after registration closes.

Awards have to be ordered in advance thus the timing of getting the final car and participating drivers count is important.

•  

 

Shipping:

Ship cars to: 

RACE PACE Bodies

ATTN: Bill Pinch

1351 Cibola Dr,

Melbourne, FL 32934

• Please provide shipper tracking number info to:

         Bill Pinch -bpinch1@bellsouth.net

• All shipping charges to and from the event and any requested return insurance/customs costs are on the racer.
• Cars will be returned in original senders package. Please pack accordingly.
• Box plaques will be packed with the competition cars (only) for the return trip. 

 

 

Race Prizes:

• Donations Needed

Sponsors:

• "Feed the Crew" and "Awards" any help would be appreciated.

Media:           

• Video - Event will be filmed and posted to YouTube. - Sorry no live stream.
• Pictures - Will be posted here on Slotblog and a good possibility on the TheRaceway.biz Facebook page.

 

 

Contact info:

 

www.TheRaceway.biz

1220 Sarno Road

MELBOURNE, FL 32935

 

Store Phones 

Toll Free: (866) 845-4559

Evening: (321) 600-4951 

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Entry List

 

Sample

 

==============================================================================================

 

Motor List

Laminated

• Gizi Winder w/BB
• Kemtron 503- X
• Kemtron 503-8
• Kemtron Bronco SR22
• Kemtron Mustang SR21
• Mini DV18D-8
• Mini DV18E
• Pittman DC65
• Pittman DC65-6
• Pittman DC-84
• Pittman DC-85
• Ram 857-6
• Ram DC850
• Russkitt  41
• Strombecker Destroyer 8473

In-line less axle bracket.

• AristoCraft R6
• K&S MR 1 Super
• Mini Auto DH15
• Mini DH13A
• Mini DH13M
• Mini DH18
• Pittman DC63M
• Pittman DC70
• Revell RP66
• Revell RP77
• Strombecker Hustler
• Tradeship MX70
• Tradeship MX77
• Varney KM1

In-line w/ axle bracket

• Aristocraft 18
• Atlas AT206
• Atlas AT208
• Atlas AT306
• Atlas AT406
• AW Stingray
• Mini DH13M ?
• MRRC Super 3P
• Pittman 196A
• Pittman 196B
• Ram DC711
• Ram DC711 6volt
• Strombecker Avenger 8387
• Strombecker Scorcher 7  8389
• Strombecker Scuttler 8379
• Strombecker Super Charger 8528
• Strombecker Super Scuttler
• Tradeship MicroMotor MN30
• Tyco 901
• Tyco 902
• VIP Club

Sidewinder

• K&B Challanger 1502
• K&B Super Challanger 1504
• Mila Miglia Capolupo 501
• Pittman DC 704, 705, 706
• Ram DC 222
• Ram DC XL500
• Ram DC283
• Ram DC426A
• Strombecker Devastator 8474
• Tyco 952

Attached Images

• 

[Gator Bob]

Motor Rule Clarification - Stock Class  Hardbody

• Can arms be cut? - Yes  - Stock Wind and Commutator.
• Blueprint motor? - Yes -
• Ball bearings added? - No - (OEM Factory BB motors allowed)

 

• Laminations - OEM full count of plates
• Arm Balance - Allowed
• Brushes - Any material, OEM style spring arms or brush holders.
• Springs - Any
• Case Assembly lightening (laminations, endbell, bushing carriers) - Not Allowed

 

 

Axle BBs - Allowed

[Gator Bob]

Body Rule Clarification - Stock Class  Hardbody

 

Term - "Full Street Trim"

 

• 'Glue on' exterior trim such as rear view mirrors, door handles, hood ornaments, antennas, etc. are Not Required.

[Gator Bob]

I have received some rule questions that need clarification.

 

• Modern or Vintage Guide flag
• Silicone lead wire
• Rear wheels and/or tires can be modern or vintage. Any compound allowed. Builders can chose to mix and match wheels or put new rubber on vintage wheels. Minimum Dia. of 1”.
• Guide flag nuts

1. Opaque guides - Black preferred -  If you must use a modern guide braids must be mounted with screws (as shown below).
2. Silicone lead wire does not meet the vintage 1967 spirit gauge
3. Modern rears - inserts preferred if not CNC detailed (as shown below).
4. Flag retainers. - Brass weights did come threaded, set screw or as both threaded and set screw. Standard metallic 10/32 nuts are allowed but modern machined metallic or molded plastic nuts are not allowed

 

[Gator Bob]

Motor Rule Update

 

The Kemtron SR-20 'Pancake' motor is approved for competition in in all classes.

[Gator Bob]

Important Note:

 

 

Track is wired positive (drivers) right.

[Gator Bob]

Here is a link that is a great parts date reference.

 

Thanks to Steve Okeefe.

 

http://slotblog.net/...-chassis-parts/

[Gator Bob]

[Gator Bob]

Ok Gents ...

now that the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat has worn down I unlocked this thread to give us a place to discuss how to continually improve 'our' event for 2016.

 

1> Glue is our biggest enemy.

2> Does 'everyone's' cars need to be posted and approved by the other owners like we did in the "Balls Out" Choti Proxy to avoid any post race legality conflict? 

[SlotStox#53]

The posting of cars sounds a good idea overall to sort out any possible issues if it's needed, although how would that work out for competitors who aren't members of the blog?

Would any possible date stamp issues come up for those be covered by the hard working tech inspector on the day ?

Could always make it where people post the list of parts to be used in the build?

Then once finished, pictures posted for the final once over rubber stamp?

Glue sounds like one of the main issues along with the guides (got to find some more Cox guides I'm out lol)

[SlotStox#53]

Some more points /questions that maybe an idea to clarify...

If a car turns up and is found to be outside of specification, rule/s,are they still allowed to race? What, if any penalties would be given,time addition or things like that?

Also, just incase anyone else has confusion over the time slips showing red light/loss and position of car in final table despite red lighting..

That the drivers reaction time/jumping the start & red lighting has no bearing on the results/qualifying. It's purely down to elapsed times...

[Gator Bob]

Some more points /questions that maybe an idea to clarify...

If a car turns up and is found to be outside of specification, rule/s,are they still allowed to race? What, if any penalties would be given,time addition or things like that?

 

Next year cars will be 'inspected' by your peers. This will be done like the 'Balls Out' California Choti proxy race that Jarius Watson promoted.

Also, just incase anyone else has confusion over the time slips showing red light/loss and position of car in final table despite red lighting..

That the drivers reaction time/jumping the start & red lighting has no bearing on the results/qualifying. It's purely down to elapsed times...

 

It's all about the cars performance, not the drivers.

 

Do you guys want to run them one car at a time like the V-Town event?

 

Should we limit the field to 16 eligible class cars like the 2014 R&R race?

 

Then every car could be dialed in/tuned to the track on a 100% clean lane and shut down.

 

I set the classes up this year like the V-Town but none of those guys showed, I set up the Unlimited class to accommodate those that said 'no-neo, no-race'. Guess what...they didn't show either. Trying to accommodate too many people didn't work out that great.  

 

If there is any interest in setting up a single rule set for a national series I'm game. 

 

I don't expect a big crowd of racers sharing in the fun if we run one car at a time.

[SlotStox#53]

"Should we limit the field to 16 eligible class cars like the 2014 R&R race?"

Having a real brain fart but I'm just not totally understanding this ...

A max of 16 cars per class?

Keep it 2 cars at a time /head to head , if you're able to sort video out for next year the head 2 head looks Sooooo much better rewatching the Pinching Bug V the Ramcharger ghost is priceless

Keep the unlimited as I've got a half finished car that can be finished as long as it still has a class to run in

 

[dc-65x]

Hi Bob,

 

I was proud to be an event sponsor and support your Proxy Racing. Now that the race is over, there is a discussion about next year's event and wondering why the V-Town racers didn't enter I hope it's OK to make some comments.

 

These are not meant as criticisms but rather simply as "food for thought":

 

Rodney and I didn't enter because of the many, many, many "rules". If you review the V-Town rules you'll see a much simpler format.

 

Also, our personal preference is for hard body cars for vintage drag racing. I love vac body cars but the vast majority of drag cars in the 60's seem to have been hard body. I believe if I wanted to enter a hard body there was only a "stock" class available. Otherwise I'd be mixed in with vac body cars in the other classes.

 

The V-Town event ran the cars one at a time.

 

Lastly, the glue situation. Here's what Rodney did to handle the glue in the shut down area:

 

"The track was cleaned.  After each run, the front and rear tires were cleaned with naphtha to remove the shut down glue.  During the second weekend, a couple of racers glued up the track and their tires.  I chased them off and cleaned the track and got after the glue racers. With Germans and urethane's, the cars were about .2 seconds slower with glue.  Also, cars with drop arms and high powered motors would not launch correctly with glue.  They would de-slot."

 

Again, A big THANK YOU to you Bob for all your hard work.

[SlotStox#53]

Can see your worry of hard body V vac formed performance wise, if it's of any use pretty much the whole field this year ran hard bodies only 1 or 2 vac formed ones that I know of were used..

My VW won it's class this year with a Tamiya kit shell on and was .1 slower than last year with its Lancer formed one. Only reason for the time is due to mucho more hp than last year causing slot popping nothing to do with the body..

Would love to race against yours and Rodney's cars Rick some very serious competition. ...

[Gator Bob]

Rick, what you say is respected and considered constructive.

 

I can see the point on Vac bodies as not being a 60s staple in drags but I'm not convinced yet that the is as big of an advantage as I perceived.  

I agree that there are to many rules and maybe to many classes since we don't run 12/24/36v.

 

BTW: Your hardbody Cobra would have probably taken the Rods title. 

 

Lets continue to work together to improve proxy drag racing and thank you for your support.

I really like those wheels you sent ... I didn't 'win' any though... LOL. I put them out as a kinda hard luck award.

[dc-65x]

Thank you Bob, I really do want to be constructive.  What you are doing for vintage drag racing is really cool and much appreciated.

 

Our not allowing vac bodies in the V-Town race was not for any performance issue. It was simply to make the event more like a vintage event from the period.

 

The way the "glue thing" was handled by Rodney was pretty "period vintage" too. The racing part of the track was a clean, high gloss and glue free zone. It was kind of like the high gloss Formica strips in the day....I know that's a bit of a stretch but it was clean and high gloss. Low and behold, clean vintage "German" tires hooked up well just like they did on the 60's tracks. Better still, currently available reproduction vintage urethane tires hood up great too.

 

I was planning a build for your event. I was going to make a scale slot car version of the rail in the AMT Double Dragster model kit. I knew it wouldn't be the fastest car of course but I thought it would be a really fun build and look killer on the strip. Then I read a post by a blogger who was building his car. He said he'd have to lengthen it to meet the 8" minimum length rule. The Double Dragster Rail is way shorter than that. I would of had to make it several inches longer and I thought it just wouldn't look right......one too many rules for my entrant I guess.

[boxerdog]

I guess I am the only entrant who ran at both the Florida and V-town races. I was only at V-town for the second weekend (I didn't know that there was a "first" weekend until I got there). So I didn't get to see all of the cars make their passes.

 

I'd certainly like to see a unified set of classes, including a hard-body limitation in the future. To be practical, I would like to see modern guides and rear rubber allowed.

 

I think the head-to-head races are much more realistic and should be the norm, along with the publishing of brackets and time slips. Keeps things a lot more interesting and I like the idea of getting the "locals" involved as drivers as well.

 

JMO

[Gator Bob]

Thank you Bob, I really do want to be constructive.  What you are doing for vintage drag racing is really cool and much appreciated.

 

I'm good with constructive. Thanks Rick I'm tryin'. The cool part is the slate is still clean and we can make it into what we want it to be. I'm optimistic that we can find common ground on rules and procedures to make it all 'Fun'.

 

Our not allowing vac bodies in the V-Town race was not for any performance issue. It was simply to make the event more like a vintage event from the period.

 

Personally I think there is a place for Vac bodies. This car, formally Don's (which I absolutely love) fits in my 'stereo viewer' of vintage drags. Then again I wasn't 'been there, done that'.

 

The way the "glue thing" was handled by Rodney was pretty "period vintage" too. The racing part of the track was a clean, high gloss and glue free zone. It was kind of like the high gloss Formica strips in the day....I know that's a bit of a stretch but it was clean and high gloss. Low and behold, clean vintage "German" tires hooked up well just like they did on the 60's tracks. Better still, currently available reproduction vintage urethane tires hood up great too.

 

I hate friggin glue. I rather grease my tractor or do  wheel bearings. 

 

My view on tires is ... we gotta allow modern in the mix even though they can be a disadvantage. These cars seam to like some 'wheel speed' because they don't have wheelie bars. Just like the front engine 60s rails.

 

To grow this segment we can't totally rely on epay or secret stashes.  We need more guys like Rgeo Rick to step up. If it grows and we can prove demand more will come. Maybe Pro/Track or someone will make hard tall and skinny open cell tires with CNC Halibrand's. 

 

Track owners need to sell something like tires, axles, bearings, guides...etc. We gotta help keep them going, we need more tracks involved.

 

I was planning a build for your event. I was going to make a scale slot car version of the rail in the AMT Double Dragster model kit. I knew it wouldn't be the fastest car of course but I thought it would be a really fun build and look killer on the strip.

Oh ... It sure as hell would.

 

Then I read a post by a blogger who was building his car. He said he'd have to lengthen it to meet the 8" minimum length rule. The Double Dragster Rail is way shorter than that. I would of had to make it several inches longer and I thought it just wouldn't look right......one too many rules for my entrant I guess.

 

I want everyone to run what they like .... That fit the exhibition class

[hiline2]

Im in this because it's the fun first ! When I saw the opportunity to dig out my old  stuff and do my best to make it run I got excited ! I never got to run in any Slot Drag races in the 60's. At the time there wasn't any tracks I knew of that had a drag strip. I had bought and built up a Russkit rail with Pittman motor and all hoping Id get a chance to do it (never happened, life moved on and my mom gave off my stuff !) 

 

As to the question of hardbody/vac ? my first real racer I won races with was a Dynamic frame, Kemtron motor and dynamic BIG slicks with a Vac GS Vette body on it (this in 1965) If I had that car today it wouldnt be legit in a vintage drag race?

 

I am hoping to have a car or more for the next big proxy races, hard body, a 62 Vette in Gasser class (see my icon pic) and a 64 Dodge, maybe more.

 

Im going to do try and tune up the rails (and add one or 2 more)  Ive got Russkit rails (blue) to buld, Re-pop Red and  2 more in plain aluminum, Also a Brass Kemtron chassis that Mr Gator B is tweeking a kemtron/Ram to go in it!

 

I'm even looking into and considering finding a Drag Track (one over in Dallas) that could become the 3rd track in this Proxy program ! They are big into glue so Ill have to see what they would consider about cleaning!

 

There does seem to be several participants in this proxy who are willing to  share/sell/trade parts and help others to build/tune up cars that allowing some minimal modern parts (guide flags, tires, gears) will seem to work but I do like the idea of more re-pop parts becoming available, Ive had folks contact me (after I posted some of my photos on FB) looking for the rails and more etc.

 

I'm wondering if those others who are Texans would like to work up ideas for becoming the 3rd location for  this kind of racing lets chat !

[SlotStox#53]

By the sound of your original dynamic framed car it would of been perfectly legal for the Rods & Rails

Certainly appears you will be more than ready to burn up the strip in next year's event Paul

[Gator Bob]

Paul B. If your mom throw'ed it out, let's build up a replacement. What color was yours? Sounds like a very cool car .. I love that DuBro Grand Sport.

Bodies for sale - http://www.professor...&show=20&page=2

 

 

Now ... back to the future ...  

 

Please solicit/explain the proxy concept to your local track.

It takes a special kinda people to do this proxy gig stuff, care custody,control and safe return of the fleet is paramount. 

 

We don't have to reinvent the wheel on divisions ... the NHRA map region map works ... to start.

 

• 2016 Goal: Get one race in each region.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gator Bob]

I guess I am the only entrant who ran at both the Florida and V-town races. I was only at V-town for the second weekend (I didn't know that there was a "first" weekend until I got there). So I didn't get to see all of the cars make their passes.

 

Veteran proxy guy .. not just drags.

 

I'd certainly like to see a unified set of classes,

Agree

 

including a hard-body limitation in the future.

Disagree - I think there is room for both hard and vacuum pulled, even blister packaging bodies, ...  maybe not run together. Scale, prototype, thingie ... creations encouraged.

If you like a flying chicken dragster or a backwards VW... so be it.

  

To be practical, I would like to see modern guides.

Agree - Think this will have to be a (near?) must .. they are currently working at all modern tracks. It really 'mucks-up' the program with timing light issues.

 

and rear rubber allowed.

 Agree

 

I think the head-to-head races are much more realistic and should be the norm, along with the publishing of brackets and time slips. Keeps things a lot more interesting and I like the idea of getting the "locals" involved as drivers as well.

Agree -

• More people have fun sharing these gems.
• They like to race .. and that takes two cars.
• Generates more enthusiast to join .. I've got 3 guys that drove for us got the bug, I'm going to do a motor/chassis introduction. They want to add a vintage  to their weekly bracket racing fleet entries.  That alone might lead to more ... 'we want more'

 

 

JMO

[SlotStox#53]

All sounds good so far Bob with the overall spread of ideas etc

Which modern guides work fine on Bill's strip? If we know which one/s just make it use "this one"

I know the Cox quick change and screw in braid guides recorded fine looking at our team time slips. Would these still be allowed ?

Infact, the Fiat 500 was running the modern TSRF routed wood track guide and that tripped the lights fine

Great to here some of the Florida locals are hooked Look forward to seeing what they come up with.

[JohnnySlotcar]

These cars are going 35 mph,so no glue needed in shutdown area, if the track doesnt want to do this, then an alternate needs to be found. How long does it take to clean a track? That is why I did not enter.