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Compliance reminder and rule change notice


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#26 Noose

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 07:05 PM

Bob,

The answer to full-sided bullet proofing is no. I and other tech guys will just pull it back.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.





#27 kvanpelt

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 09:25 AM

Rules should solve problems. What problem are you guys trying to resolve? Flimsy bodies are hard to marshal and tear easily, and that penalizes the racer.
 
If they meet the thickness by adding additional reinforcement tape, what's the problem?

 
John, what is the point of your question? You know the objective! :spiteful:
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#28 MSwiss

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 10:27 AM

You know the objective! :spiteful:


Kevin,

Go read my post #25 and then elaborate on your comment.

Mike Swiss
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Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
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#29 kvanpelt

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 10:53 AM

When tape has been the accepted method for years to bring any variation in side thickness into spec and now that method is being denied, I smell a very big RAT!

#30 Cheater

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 11:06 AM

The taping has always been a kludge and racers told us they didn't want it.

Kevin, do you feel a thin-sided body with tape "works" as well, worse, or better compared to the same body that meets the specs without the use of tape?

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#31 MSwiss

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 11:10 AM

When tape has been the accepted method for years to bring any variation in side thickness into spec and now that method is being denied, I smell a very big RAT!


How do we combat .007" bodies?

IOW, bodies pulled from .007", not poorly vacuformed bodies pulled from .010".

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#32 Noose

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 11:10 AM

When tape has been the accepted method for years to bring any variation in side thickness into spec and now that method is being denied, I smell a very big RAT!


When the bodies being sold don't meet the same standard as the one submitted for approval I do, too.
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Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#33 stemmy

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 11:24 AM

I think a letter from the board should be sent to all body manufacturers about this issue. If you buy a Retro body and it's supposed to be within spec, it is assumed by the racer that it is.

Just my opinion.
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#34 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 11:43 AM

Very interesting thread.

Being pragmatic, I realize that all 0.010" thick Lexan sheet is not produced identical. I think that we can expect the Lexan to come into the body molders from 0.008" to 0.012". 

A body molded from stock that is exactly 0.010", will never measure 0.010" on top. I have purchased about seven to eight GT Coupe bodies in the last two years. They all came off the wall at Bill Pinch's store bagged and labeled as 0.010". Not one of them measure 0.010" on top.  From memory, they ranged from 0.008" to 0.0092" (or something like that). My Can-Am bodies faired better with some of them (Parma Ti22) measuring more than 0.010".

I am stating this from decades of experience on the matter.
Doc Dougherty
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#35 olescratch

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 11:46 AM

Try this: As the bodies enter the vendors' place, check them for the proper thickness prior to selling them to people. Return the bodies to the manufacturer with a note that the body is out of spec, and should be replaced with one that is within spec, or would that be taking the issue away from the buyer of these out of spec bodies!!???
John Stewart

#36 kvanpelt

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 12:10 PM

I don't really know Greg.

 

I do know with this rule, I can't be the only racer with a whole lot of bodies that will not be legal in the retro org that I've supported.

 

Joe suggesting we use them up before June may work in other areas, but not in this part of the country.  



#37 kvanpelt

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 12:12 PM

How do we combat .007" bodies?

IOW, bodies pulled from .007", not poorly vacuformed bodies pulled from .010".


Maybe we should be using the Spirit Gauge on the top of the body.

#38 Cheater

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 12:14 PM

Doc,

As part of the extended discussion among the BoD regarding this new rule, we measured many bodies: ten Ti22nn's, ten Ti22 regulars, ten BRMs, ten Matras, ten Lola GT's, and ten Cyclones. We also measured a number of painted and mounted bodies.

 

Every one of the bodies checked met the IRRA® thickness specs.

As you note, there was some variance in the thickness of the top of the bodies, but all were at least .010", with some at .011" to .012."


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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#39 MSwiss

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 12:34 PM

Maybe we should be using the Spirit Gauge on the top of the body.


And then there would be complaints of having to bring the car to tech with the body off.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#40 slotracer43

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 01:59 PM

This rule sounds great, but seems like it could become a real nightmare for the tech line. Obviously the board has particular bodies by particular manufacturers in mine that have not been within the specs, why not just pull these bodies from the approved list?

 

I hope this works out as intended and doesn't cause more problems than its hoping to fix.


Adam Chaya

#41 Cheater

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 02:02 PM

Why do you say "real nightmare"?

 

Based on past events, the vast majority of Retro racers will show up with bodies that meet IRRA® specs.


Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#42 slotracer43

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 02:07 PM

I remember only one race where bodies were measured in the Retro East series last year, and it did cause delay and confusion for some, I just hope that won't be an issue going forward, ecspecially for the casual retro racer.


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#43 Noose

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 02:19 PM

Maybe the point was made then Adam and I have only had to measure a couple since then. 


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Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#44 Half Fast

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 02:19 PM

Every one of the bodies checked met the IRRA® thickness specs.

 
Then why the need for the new rule?
 
Cheers


Bill Botjer

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#45 slotracer43

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 02:22 PM

Noose, with this new rule though, will all bodies be measured every time as a part of the tech process ?


Adam Chaya

#46 raisin27

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 02:29 PM

I was going to stay out of this one as I didn't really see a problem with the new rule and don't generally use the bodys in question anyways, but reading the post from Stemmy kind of changed my mind. If a racer buys an approved body then the assumption is that its made correctly and is a legal body.

If the bodys aren't made to spec then perhaps its a MFG. issue and they should bear the responsibility for the problem instead of a consumer that bought it in good faith. If bodys that are on the approved list are found to not meet legal specs and we are no longer permitted to bring them into spec with tape then perhaps that body MFG. should be informed that there is an issue and if it cannot be corrected then those bodys should be removed from the list.

 

Raisin


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#47 Noose

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 02:33 PM

Adam: More than likely. I will say that based on the race this weekend I did not feel any that I felt were in need of measurement.  I had the gauge ready though.

 

Raisin: Yes you are right.  The Consumer should not be punished.  Again, I note, that when bodies were submitted for approval they met the specs which have not changed in a long time.  Thus, the production bodies should be the same as those submitted.


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Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#48 Pappy

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 03:58 PM

If the bodys aren't made to spec then perhaps its a manufacturer issue and they should bear the responsibility for the problem instead of a consumer that bought it in good faith. If bodies that are on the approved list are found to not meet legal specs and we are no longer permitted to bring them into spec with tape then perhaps that body manufacturer should be informed that there is an issue and if it cannot be corrected then those bodies should be removed from the list.


I think the manufacturer's and most of the racers know which bodies will meet spec and which ones won't;. If you don't know just ask around.

It's real easy for the racers to remove the bodies that they know won't meet the specs

Just don't buy them.
Jim "Butch" Dunaway
 
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It's the same when you are stupid.

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#49 Dominator

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 04:05 PM

I for one like the idea of not adding tape to the body to thicken it up. It makes everything more consistent.  Makes it easier for a newbie and the body will last just a little longer (aside from driving through non-moveable objects).  More times than not if their is a problem with a body it is because it is not mounted correctly to begin with.  I help one of the NERR racers this past weekend who complained about his car tipping out.  I remounted the interior and opened up the wheel wells and he dropped more than a tenth.  Good move by the BOD to hold the manufactures accountable. If the product does not meet spec's racers won't be buying their products.


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#50 James Grandi

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 05:15 PM

I like the idea of product being held to a standard, and perhaps this will give all body producers cause to double check and make sure the product they sell consistently meets that standard.

Now if only Kelly Retros came out of the tube anywhere remotely close to the size indicated on the label...
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