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Compliance reminder and rule change notice


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#101 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 10:55 AM

They could do that, there's another Retro organization they can sell them to.

 

Give us your rejected, give us your thin, your weak, your illegal...

 

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#102 kvanpelt

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 11:06 AM

OK, good one. What body? 

 

I have ten including this Chicagoland F1 and a Parma BRM that I TQ'd and finished second at the Sano.

 

20150211_095745.jpg


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#103 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 11:07 AM

Dan Santelli had one you bounced at tech. His displeasure was very vocal.


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#104 kvanpelt

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 11:08 AM

You guys think I'm defending Ron and O/S, but I'm really as neutral as anyone can be!


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#105 stemmy

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 11:11 AM

LOL. I have two of the Petit LeMans enduro bodies that Noose painted that are not .007".


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#106 kvanpelt

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 11:12 AM

Here is the new JK.

 

20150211_095205.jpg


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#107 Phil Hackett

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 11:17 AM

So why not solve the whole problem of side stretching (all vacuum formed bodies have it) by increasing the thickness requirement to .020? Hmmmmm…. It may not be popular but it solves the problem, whether there's a problem or not.


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#108 kvanpelt

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 11:21 AM

Just sayin, as I'm going through my box of bodies, I have yet to come across more than three that meet this rule. None of these were hand picked and every body supplied by Joe doesn't comply with my spirit gage.

 

If I am not allowed to run these in the only Retro race run within a 2-1/2 hour drive, I will be really pi$$ed off. Just sayin'!


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#109 Cheater

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 11:23 AM

Kevin,

 

Your evidence IMO is diminished by your use of a cheap set of plastic calipers. Have you ever checked the calibration on them?

 

The BoD is using a far more accurate measuring device for its testing.


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Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#110 kvanpelt

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 11:28 AM

I would be more than happy to take the time and bring all my Retro bodies to Mike for him to measure with his spirit gage. We have a bigger problem than O/S bodies if this rule is enforced with a tech gage. If we use the feel gage, then that is another issue.


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#111 Noose

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 11:36 AM

Dan Santelli had one you bounced at tech. His displeasure was very vocal.

 

That was not one of my painted bodies and his was under the .007". He was told to go tape it. He was upset he had to tape it to make it legal.


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#112 kvanpelt

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 11:39 AM

20150211_103401.jpg

 

Is this accurate enough for you, Greg?

 

I need an f...ing $300 pair of calipers now?


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#113 kvanpelt

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 11:45 AM

Not entirely plastic.

 

20150211_104016.jpg !


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#114 Bernie

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 12:02 PM

I think the fact that they are pink is whats causing the problem, Kevin! :laugh2:  :laugh2:
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#115 Mike K

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 12:03 PM

Way to hold your ground, KVP!!! :clapping:
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So much DRAMA for such small cars....
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#116 Cheater

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 12:15 PM

See what it measures on a piece of .007" shim stock, Kevin.


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#117 Duffy

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 12:17 PM

I'm sorry to get into this at all, but I gotta say: calipers are lousy for measuring bodies in the best of circumstances. But there're a few things about measuring that need to be addressed here:

1) I do own $300 calipers, and I'm in a biz where guys who understand tooling and measuring won't trust 'em for tolerances inside .0015" - you can C-clamp them that much.
2) You also don't "calibrate" with a gage pin up inside the throat and then measure down at the tips, you got a whole 'nother deflection factor out there. The gibs on the moving part can be loose or your jaws might be sprung - I know, Kevin, you posted the pic with the pin held along the length of the jaw to prove parallelism, but it still doesn't tell us what's happening at the tip; there are just too many ways to push a caliper wrong, especially a pink one.
3) Your plastic and paint will deform under pressure. If you try to get a light touch, you risk measuring big, and you can't be sure when you're just-seated-and-that's-all. Really, measuring films (which this is considered to be) needs its own dedicated tool.
4) Photos - can say anything they want. Sorry. All points presented here are valid as argued, but backing up with a pic doesn't add to the validity.
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#118 Tim Neja

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 12:36 PM

:dash2:  :dash2:  :dash2:  :D  :clapping:  :victory:  :sun_bespectacled:  What a can of worms!!!  :diablo:
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She's real fine, my 409!!!

#119 kvanpelt

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 12:53 PM

Best I can do is a .010 feeler gage.

 

It's really sad that my tools, methods and integrity are being called out here when the BOD is the one that has passed a rule that has made trash of my 40+ bodies, some of which have really nice Noose paint jobs.

 

If their intent is to drive guys like me away from their org., this rule is doing a great job of that.

 

And Greg, if you are going to correct my grammar and punctuation, the least you could do is rotate the pictures I've attached!

 

20150211_113820.jpg


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#120 kvanpelt

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 01:06 PM

I think the fact that they are pink is whats causing the problem, Kevin! :laugh2:  :laugh2:

 

Like most guys Bernie, my eyes are drawn to pink! :laugh2:


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#121 Bernie

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 01:16 PM

I have not measured any of my bodies yet. Almost all are Parma so I will see how they stack up tonight.

I will say that KVP is my friend and you will not find a more upright straight shooter anywhere. I think his concerns are valid and maybe a tweak of the rules are in order so everyone can live with this. Just my 2 cents.. ^_^
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#122 Jay Guard

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 01:24 PM

Kevin:

Go back and read my post #84 carefully. Trust me, nobody is after you and your 40+ bodies.  

Besides, what if someone comes up with a new and better body? There goes your 40+ stash anyway. Bet you wouldn't have said a word, you would have just gone and bought the latest and greatest like everyone else.  

Finally, I don't know about you but about 90% (or more) of the time when I'm doing tech I can tell a body that was pulled from "thin" material just by feel. THAT'S what this is all about, NOT a thou here or there.

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#123 Pappy

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 01:25 PM

Give us your rejected, give us your thin, your weak, your illegal...


:laugh2:
 
You're not the RETRO organization I was referring to.

But now that I think of it, I did give you my rejected, thin, weak, and illegal bodies.  :laugh2:

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#124 redbackspyder

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 01:34 PM

Your evidence IMO is diminished by your use of a cheap set of plastic calipers. Have you ever checked the calibration on them?
 
The BoD is using a far more accurate measuring device for its testing.


My God, I never thought the Doug Matthes' calipers would have shown up at the IRRA BoD meeting! Who knew?
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#125 redbackspyder

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 01:37 PM

Like most guys, Bernie, my eyes are drawn to pink! :laugh2:


Best quote of the whole thread! :shok:

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#126 Gator Bob

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 02:16 PM

 
Who got caught with cheated "modified pull" bodies and who made those bodies?

Did they get DQ'ed?

 

I suggest naming names, and following the rules that are already written by removing the problem cheaters instead of spreading the guilt around to every racer.


Edited by IRRAź Retro Racing, 11 February 2015 - 03:33 PM.

- WDzqYLKlZcbyIJAbLTxE.png

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#127 John C Martin

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 03:28 PM

Easy way to bring body sides to the compliance is use more paint on the sides, over-coat ones you've already painted, maybe brush paint job just for the sides... LOL.

Because like's been said they're many more illegal than legal, not just O/S...

No show stopper for me... LOL.



#128 kvanpelt

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 03:31 PM

Go back and read my post #84 carefully. Trust me, nobody is after you and your 40+ bodies.  

Besides, what if someone comes up with a new and better body? There goes your 40+ stash anyway. Bet you wouldn't have said a word, you would have just gone and bought the latest and greatest like everyone else.  

Finally, I don't know about you but about 90% (or more) of the time when I'm doing tech I can tell a body that was pulled from "thin" material just by feel. THAT'S what this is all about, NOT a thou here or there.


3) Your plastic and paint will deform under pressure. If you try to get a light touch, you risk measuring big, and you can't be sure when you're just-seated-and-that's-all. Really, measuring films (which this is considered to be) needs its own dedicated tool.

 
I understand that we are trying to keep out the .007" bodies. Me and my 40+ bodies would be stupid not to be in favor of that.
 
The problem that I see/have is the fact that most of the bodies I have measured (Parma, O/S, JK, or CL ) do not comply with the thickness rule of .010" on top or .007" on the sides. I don't want to waste my time or the tech person's time by presenting a body at tech that I'm not confident will comply. I or anyone else shouldn't need to rely on a wink and a nod to pass tech. I don't want to rely on the "feel test" either. If the rule says .007" then a tech tool should be present to confirm or reject that and it should be applied to all bodies going through tech, not a select few.
 
BTW, if a new better body came out and obsoleted all of my bodies, which is very unlikely, it would be MY choice to buy it and not run the others. I don't like it when a BoD throws away my hard earned money. USRA just did this for me in GT12 with the PMP chassis.

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#129 kvanpelt

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 03:39 PM

Easy way to bring body sides to the compliance is use more paint on the sides, over-coat ones you've already painted, maybe brush paint job just for the sides... LOL.

Because like's been said they're many more illegal than legal, not just O/S...

No show stopper for me... LOL.


John, this is a way, but I was told it could be squeezed into non-compliance.

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#130 IRRAź Retro Racing

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 03:48 PM

The IRRA® BoD remains committed to removing from use bodies which are too thin and can give a competitive advantage. 

 
The body rule change recently announced is currently being reviewed, taking into account the feedback and comments that have been received from racers.
 
(posted for the IRRA® BoD by Mike McMasters)


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IRRA® Board of Directors: Mike McMasters, Joe Neumeister, Tony Przybylowicz, Mike Swiss, Greg Wells






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