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Compliance reminder and rule change notice


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#51 Arne Saknussem

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 07:25 PM

This reminds me of the debate over motor seals being applied to racer-blueprinted motors.  You all will recall that a large number of people maintained that making that particular practice illegal was unnecessary because blueprinting a PD made absolutely no difference in performance :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:.  I also seem to recall that most of them should have known better.

 

Now we have many decrying this body ruling despite the fact that adroit selection of "too thin" bodies coupled with the well-judged application of tape can easily result in a significant handling advantage over an untaped, legally molded body..

 

Not accusing anyone of anything shady... just pointing out a fact that I applaud the BOD for addressing.


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#52 Mbloes

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 08:10 PM

This discussion is amazing.

 

Step 1:  Buy otherwise legal body.  Take 7 seconds out of your life by measuring with calipers.  Greater than ten thou?  Go to step 2.

 

Step 2: Build car with legal body.

 

Step 3: Submit legal car to tech.  Tech either says ok or spends an additional 3 seconds measuring legal body and then says ok.

 

Step 4: Race.


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#53 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 08:10 PM

I propose that the rule should be amended to say the body must measure 0.008" on top, minimum.  It is impossible to take 0.010" thick lexan, vacuum form the body over a mold, and end up with the body measuring 0.010" on top. Simply impossible. In order to have a vacuum formed body measure at least 0.010" on top, the material must be thicker than 0.010", maybe at least 0.0115".

 

Conversely, it is impossible to take a sheet of Lexan at 0.007", vacuum form a body, and have it end up thicker than 0.007". If the body measures greater than 0.007" on top, it had to come from a sheet thicker than 0.007".

 

Out of 8 GT Coupe bodies, I have only one that will pass. 7 of them measure between 0.0080" and 0.0092".


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
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#54 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 08:14 PM

Mike; what do you do with the multiple bodies you have already purchased, had painted, and mounted on a car, knowing that all of these bodies came out of bags/labels showing they are 0.010" bodies? And your answer is: throw them away!!!!!!! I have maybe 40 or more IRRA bodies from Parma, JK, and OS.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion

#55 Mbloes

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 08:17 PM

Aren't they really concerned about the sides?  This is the flex that gives the handling advantage, no?


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#56 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 09:26 PM

I have 6 Can-Am cars in my box ready to go to P1 raceway for the next GRRR event. 5 bodies do not pass this new rule, one does. The body that passes is a Parma Ti22. The others are all OS Ti22s.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
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​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion

#57 kvanpelt

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 09:29 PM

Joe, do you use a tech tool to measure ride height or do you just eye ball it?



#58 kvanpelt

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 09:34 PM

Mike; what do you do with the multiple bodies you have already purchased, had painted, and mounted on a car, knowing that all of these bodies came out of bags/labels showing they are 0.010" bodies? And your answer is: throw them away!!!!!!! I have maybe 40 or more IRRA bodies from Parma, JK, and OS.

 

I have as many also.

 

Currently with one race a year within a 2 1/2 hr drive, the likelihood of using them up before any deadline is a joke. 



#59 slotcarone

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 09:38 PM

Joe, do you use a tech tool to measure ride height or do you just eye ball it?

Kevin what do you mean by ride height? Joe uses tools to measure each parameter of the rules. A few are custom made for tthe tech table.


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#60 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 09:54 PM

I have measured one F1 body out of six F1 cars that I have setup for our next GRRR race. It measures 0.0082" in the rear at the tray. All of my F1 bodies are OS McLarens with the tray in the rear.  I figure that they all are illegal.  Just to note: all these bodies are painted including the GT Coupe and Can-Am bodies mentioned above.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
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#61 Noose

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 09:59 PM

So it's our fault you guys have O/S bodies that don't meet the spec?


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
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#62 Gator Bob

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 10:27 PM

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IMG_3403.JPG


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                            Bob Israelite

#63 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 10:31 PM

I am buying the bodies off the wall at Bill Pinch's track. The bodies were marked 10 thou bodies. It's not just the O/S bodies, my illegal bodies include JK bodies that also were marked 10 thou bodies.

So now what we have to do is to have the raceway owner open the bag and we measure the body before we can buy it.
Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion

#64 Gator Bob

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 10:43 PM

I bought that JK Ti22 at the track, rattlecan painted yellow then white in the sunny parking lot... Tony said, '"Gimme that car, it looks too good for a parking lot, where's my sharpie?". LOL

Doc, you were there... IIRC remember you had nothing in your box that could run with it that day... LOL.
Bought it .010" when I got there. I prefer the JK.
 
Now if this silly rule sticks better'n tape... here is the way to get the flex back:
 
Gently bend/fold the sides right on the the door line after the wheelwells are cut... carefully bend them back and for the a couple of times. I use the Hi-Viz tape to keep the sides stiff up to the newly created 'live hinge'.

There you go!
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#65 Danny Zona

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 11:04 PM

Aren't they really concerned about the sides? This is the flex that gives the handling advantage, no?


A body that is thinner on the top will handle better. Less top weight. It might be minor but it does make a difference.
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#66 redbackspyder

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 11:04 PM

  :popcorm1:  :help:

 

Does this thread really get any better, Bob?


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#67 kvanpelt

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 01:55 AM

So it's our fault you guys have OS bodies that don't meet the spec?

 
No, Joe, it is not your fault we have bodies that do not meet the spec, but it is the BoD's fault for changing the way we were allowed to comply to the spec for eight years. 
 
I still have not heard a logical reason why, after eight years, we are not allowed to comply to the spec with a piece of tape.
 
I've had my say, see you at the races!
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#68 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 06:10 AM

I understand the intent of this rule, but all I feel it is going to do is harm certain racers. There is one manufacturer whose bodies I refuse to purchase, and Noose and I  have talked about this. I source my bodies that I use from one known maker, and a couple from a well-known raceway, but even then, as good as they are, I have run into bodies that that check .0065" or so (maybe .006) on a side instead of the required .007. On all my bodies I use a Mylar 3M packaging tape to strengthen them, even if they are the required minimum thickness.
 
Now if one of these bodies gets bounced due to one side being below spec, what do I do? Ask for my money back? I feel this rule will hurt the little racer like me more than most. Like I said, I understand the meaning of the rule, but it will hurt the low bucks racer more than the bodymaker. And if the bod maker is already experiencing hard times financially, do you expect them to change their process? I'm certain track owners will not allow me to open packages to check body thickness with a caliper.
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#69 Pappy

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 06:35 AM

I'm certain track owners will not allow me to open packages to check body thickness with a caliper.


Why wouldn't they? They don't want a dissatisfied customer. I would be more worried about buying my bodies online.

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It's the same when you are stupid.

 


#70 jimht

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 11:14 AM

Three pages of reactive commentary to a new rule that's not been put up for discussion, just compliance... hilarious.
 
The vast number of bodily affected dissatisfied Retro racers worldwide need to get together and form a new organization whose primary aim should be to make sure that when an infinitesimally small number of racers complain online about spending too much of their expendable income on parts later declared illegal they will be allowed to use the aforesaid parts in any race as long as they don't win anything of any consequence like bowling trophies or box plaques (and then gloat over it).
 
This organization will of course have a vote at each race prior to tech as to the legality of every questionable part of the cars presented with any pre post tech protests to of course be voted on prior to the pre tech preliminary post tech, time permitting.
 
Those racers protesting in any way will have their races postponed as long as necessary to make sure every nit is picked over properly, while everyone else gets to race immediately.
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#71 Half Fast

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 12:57 PM

Taking a few random measurements on Retro bodies I found you can measure just about any thickness (above and below .010) you want depending on what part of the body you measure (similar to what Gator and M Rigsby found). This is probably due to the Lexan being stretched when molded.

 

This rule change is well intentioned but may open a big can of worms.

 

Cheers


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#72 Gator Bob

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 01:07 PM

Joe,

 Painted Parma Cyclones and Parma Ti22NN bodies I have in stock don't meet 'spec' like the JK shown... by a couple of thou.

 

Pappy, the way I know it is:

 "You open (or break) it you bought it."

 Do you like to buy stuff off the hook that has been opened for inspection? I don't!


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                            Bob Israelite

#73 Pappy

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 01:40 PM

C'mon, Bob.
 
It's not something you are going to eat or have for a long time. It's going to get tore up.
 
Take the staple off the card, pull the body out, check the thickness (unless it comes from one certain manufacturer you are probably going to buy it), put it back in the bag, put a staple back in it right where it was, not a thing is hurt and no one will probably know the difference.
 
People return a lot of things that they have already opened.

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It's the same when you are stupid.

 


#74 Samiam

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 04:07 PM

Three pages of reactive commentary to a new rule that's not been put up for discussion, just compliance... hilarious.


This is the IRRA®. There are no members to discuss it with. The rules are made and adjusted as the BoD sees fit. If there is enough blow back about this then it will get adjusted. Same way it's done in other Retro orgs. 
 
As a side note... Measured two Parma Retro bodies and both have .005" sides. I'll make sure I use them up or sell them. No big deal.


Sam Levitch
 
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#75 Gator Bob

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 06:04 PM

If everybody every body is to 'skinny' then nobody nobody can race at all.

 

Maybe back up and take this rule off at the last exit ramp.

 

Sam,   I have 30-40 painted-up JK, Parma, O/S  bodies ... you wanna buy some'a dem them ... now till June? 

:clapping: "Hey, get your red hot puppy dogs and fat free potato chips...Here-eeeah" :clapping: 

 

So a question for the BoD ...

Will improved molding techniques will be developed in time so that bodies will be uniform to meet this rule deadline?

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                            Bob Israelite





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