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IRRAź body rule change - REVISED


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#1 IRRAź Retro Racing

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 02:32 PM

Until March 1, 2015, the existing body rules in the 2015 IRRA® rulebook will be used: Section E, Body rule 1a, as written in all IRRA® classes.
 
Effective March 1, 2015, at all IRRA® Premier Races and on September 1, 2015, in all regions using the IRRA® rule set, the following body rules will apply:
 
Section E, Rule 1a (all classes but Stock Car): Bodies must meet the following dimensions: .008" minimum thickness on the nose of the body without any tape and .007" minimum thickness on the sides of the body, which may be accomplished using tape that must cover the entire side from wheel well to wheel well (on F1 bodies, from the front axle opening to the rear of the body side).
 
Stock Car section E, Rule 1a: Bodies must meet the following dimensions: .012" minimum thickness on the hood without any tape and .010" minimum thickness on the sides of the body, which may be accomplished using tape that must cover the entire side from wheel well to wheel well.
 
Regions may elect to enforce this change sooner than September 1, 2015.
 
Based on manufacturer input regarding the molding process, the IRRA® BoD believes that this is fair to all involved and still prohibits bodies made from .007" thick plastic stock as well as poorly-molded bodies.
 
The illustrations below indicate the approximate locations where measurements are to be taken.
 
ca.1.jpg
 
f1.1.jpg
 
cpe.1.jpg
 
sc.1.jpg
 
cap.1.jpg

(posted for the IRRA® BoD by Joe Neumeister)


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#2 Half Fast

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 02:40 PM

:) :) :good:


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#3 kvanpelt

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 02:52 PM

:good: I should have 40+ legal bodies again. :D
 
It's always nice to see the BoD listen to the racers! :)
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#4 MSwiss

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 02:56 PM

Maybe not the newer JK Ti22 that measures .0025" on the side. LOL.

Mike Swiss
 
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#5 kvanpelt

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 02:59 PM

LOL. I have two of those, Mike.
 
Anybody know where I can get a good pair of calipers? :laugh2:

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#6 Noose

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 03:02 PM

Anybody know where I can get a good pair of calipers? :laugh2:


Yup. LMAO.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
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#7 MSwiss

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 03:03 PM

If they were pulled from .007", I doubt you'll be able to make the hood swell to .008".

Mike Swiss
 
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#8 redbackspyder

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 03:12 PM

Zip Grip!

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#9 Noose

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 03:13 PM

Be my guest using that, Mill. There won't be any body to measure after that.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
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#10 kvanpelt

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 03:14 PM

All joking aside, I would like to thank the BoD for finding a much better resolution to this issue.

 

You guys take a lot of heat from some of us racers and even if we don't always agree, the time you invest in a non-paying position is much appreciated. Thank you for your dedication!


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#11 Cheater

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 03:22 PM

... the time you invest in a non-paying position is much appreciated.


Kevin, thank you for this comment. Much appreciated.

Just so folks understand how much work goes into the BoD's deliberations behind the scenes, may I point out that in the main thread in our private boardroom where these new body rules were debated and discussed (there were a couple of other threads where the topic was raised), there are 339 posts since Jan 28... with just five guys posting!

The BoD pretty much lives with constant reminders of that old adage: no good deed goes unpunished. LOL!
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#12 John C Martin

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 04:26 PM

Unfortunately, Blue Magic will not swell anything... but Zip Grip swells everything... Nothing like a little Blue Magic on 1/32 silicone tires, too...


Can I get it before Valentine's day?... (Zip Grip ) that is... LOL.

Good move, BoD.

#13 Gator Bob

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 04:32 PM

Good call!
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#14 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 04:48 PM

Awesome :D I didn't give anybody any heat, did I? Really.

 

Much more reasonable; a big thank you goes out to the BoD. I will hug Tony when I see him.


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#15 Racer36

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 04:55 PM

Good work! I can think of one manufacturer that will not have any bodies on the podium in 2015.


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#16 John Streisguth

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 05:40 PM

It shouldn't eliminate any manufacturer's bodies if they are made from the correct thickness of material to begin with.


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#17 kvanpelt

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 06:00 PM

How about a link and price of the spirit gage to be used? I would like to have one in my tool box.

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#18 Half Fast

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 06:08 PM

iGaging Digital Electronic thickness gauge 0-1"/25mm micrometer caliper. Available at the store named after a jungle in Brazil. I think this is the one used by an unnamed tech inspector whose picture appears on this page.
 
51KzPe3VfJL._SY355_.jpg
 
PS: This was by 500th post and I finally earned my fifth dot. My life is fulfilled. :D


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#19 Tom Thumb Hobbies

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 06:21 PM

Yup. That's the one we use.

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#20 Noose

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 06:23 PM

Available from Micro Mark for $30.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#21 Noose

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 06:27 PM

Note the ruling says the approximate locations where the measurements will be taken. Tech inspectors will have the right to adjust the location if there is an appearance that the racer has attempted to circumvent the rule by additional decals, paint, or anything else.
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Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#22 The Number of

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 06:45 PM

What I can't leave eight lane lane stickers piled up?
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#23 Cheater

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 06:55 PM

You wouldn't stoop that low, Bill. LOL!

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#24 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 06:59 PM

... tape that must cover the entire side from wheel well to wheel well".
 
So it must go all the way to the top of the body?
 
]Sounds good to me.


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#25 Noose

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 07:00 PM

To the top of the side.


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
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#26 Tim Neja

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 07:00 PM

Wow... who'da thunk - common sense wins out!!! Yea!! :) :)


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#27 JerseyJohn

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 09:58 PM

A big atta-boy. Well, to the BoD and to those that debated the issue without being belligerent.


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#28 Gator Bob

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 10:22 PM

Just so folks understand how much work goes into the BoD's deliberations behind the scenes, may I point out that in the main thread in our private boardroom where these new body rules were debated and discussed (there were a couple of other threads where the topic was raised), there are 339 posts since Jan 28... with just five guys posting!


And your point is...? LOL
 

The BoD pretty much lives with constant reminders of that old adage: "no good deed goes unpunished".

 
And... don't forget - good builders "leave no stone unturned". ;)


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#29 Gator Bob

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 10:30 PM

How about a link and price of the spirit gage to be used? I would like to have one in my tool box.

 
There it is!
 
You could check for evil 'spirits and can squeezers with that thing.
 
Body Mass Index tool... LOL.
 

This was by 500th post and I finally earned my fifth dot. My life is fulfilled. :D

 
Way to go on finding the tool used in the room of doom* and for fulfilling your dots at the same time. :good:
 
*That would be tech for those who might not get it...


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#30 usadar

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 04:27 AM

iGaging Digital Electronic thickness gauge 0-1"/25mm micrometer caliper.

 
Digital Thickness Gauge
 
Amazon doesn't send this to Japan, so I placed an order at Micro Mark.


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#31 Cheater

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 08:47 AM

And your point is...? LOL


It would be inaccurate for racers to think that the BoD makes snap or off-the-cuff rulings.
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Gregory Wells

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#32 John Miller

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 11:34 AM

Just so folks understand how much work goes into the BoD's deliberations behind the scenes, may I point out that in the main thread in our private boardroom where these new body rules were debated and discussed (there were a couple of other threads where the topic was raised), there are 339 posts since Jan 28... with just five guys posting!

 
I'm not certain that is something to be boasting of. After 339 posts of private discussion you guys needed to change the original decision after hearing from a few racers. Maybe you guys (BoD) should consider comments from the racers during the rule collaborating process, and have fewer silo decisions.

 

I edited my post back to the original wording.  It appears that Cheater does not understand the difference between "solo" and "silo". Cheater, school yourself and look up "silo decision making". You may learn something.


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#33 Cheater

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 11:48 AM

You're assuming without a shred of evidence that "comments from the racers" were not considered, John. And that assumption is incorrect.

 

The point is this: if the BoD doesn't always get it right, or doesn't get it right the first time, it isn't for lack of trying.

 

Where's your displeasure with the parties whose actions led to the body rules having to be amended?


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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#34 Rapid Rick

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 11:51 AM

I was going to ask, 'Why the approximate area', but now I understand it... a little better. 

I feel this rule will make the racing that much better. Great work... as always..

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#35 John Miller

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 12:01 PM

No displeasure, Cheater, but in the end you guys did nothing. The rule really did not change anything. Much ado about nothing.


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#36 Noose

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 12:06 PM

Well, John, if you run legal and have run legal bodies then for you it may be much ado about nothing.


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Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#37 Fast Freddie

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 12:19 PM

I disagree, John.

 

What this discussion showed is that a rash decision made by a few because of a few can be forced towards common sense when it affects the right people. No one was told go race somewhere else if you don't agree with the senseless rule put forth. I vaguely remember receiving those remarks.

 

Now that common sense has prevailed the new rule should be easy to comply with. Let's just hope no creative racers try taping the nose, which is what I do. There should be at least three points of measurement on the top and they should be points that aren't usually taped, just saying.


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#38 MSwiss

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 12:47 PM

The rule really did not change anything. Much ado about nothing.

 
I disagree.

The .008" dimension on top gives the racer, who isn't always the original purchaser, a reference to see if they have a legal body. 

Especially useful now with the strong market for used cars, and that O/S is pulling .007" bodies to run in the RETRO series.

Speaking of which, any idea why an org that purports to be racer friendly, would allow .007" bodies? One race bodies that are hard to marshal seems to be the antithesis of "racer friendly".
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Mike Swiss
 
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#39 John Miller

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 01:08 PM

Speaking of which, any idea why an org that purports to be racer friendly, would allow .007" bodies? One race bodies that are hard to marshal seems to be the antithesis of "racer friendly".

 
I don't know, Mike. Why don't you ask them directly, just like I ask the IRRA t'em direct questions.


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#40 MSwiss

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 01:17 PM

It was a rhetorical question.

Regardless, even if it wasn't, since the "Mike Iles, where are my prepaid bodies" thing, whatever Ron calls their chat room, is now a closed group.


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Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#41 Noose

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 01:18 PM

John, no reason to. They have their rules and we have ours. We also don't have someone winning by 13 laps.


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Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#42 John Miller

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 01:25 PM

What does any of this have to do with another organization anyway? I didn't reference another group in any of my comments, but it always seems to go there.


"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

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#43 Noose

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 01:27 PM

You didn't have to and and I am not dumb.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#44 John Miller

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 01:37 PM

Joe, will you now begin to measure every customer's body intended for IRRA® racing before you paint it?
 
Also, a question out of curiosity: Does the clear Lexan need to be .008" on the top before you will paint it or will you add paint for rule thickness compliance?


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#45 Noose

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 01:44 PM

John, it is not my responsibility to police where the bodies I paint are used. If they want me to do that I surely will.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#46 Noose

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 01:45 PM

Read the rule, John.

 

And also read the footnote I stated (post #21).


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#47 Noose

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 01:54 PM

Have you asked all the other body painters the same question or did you just want to make it an issue with me?

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#48 John Miller

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 02:05 PM

Joe,

 

It was just a question for you and how you will personally proceed with the new rule. JK and O/S pull .007" bodies, and I was told that a select few have .007" Parma bodies. I have not seen them though...

 

I understand that the rule is to keep out the .007" bodies, but with paint .007" bodies can be made to be compliant. This is why I think the rule change is going to do very little. It's just the way I see it.


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#49 Noose

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 02:16 PM

John, get real. An .007" body will not be able to be made compliant. There is no way.

But you go right along with that thought and welcome to tech.


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#50 MSwiss

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 02:19 PM

John,

 

As Joe suggested, go read post #21.

Also, from the main page of the IRRA® General Rules:

 

"The IRRA® reserves the right during technical inspection to disallow any car that does not meet the intent of the rules."

IIRC, Joe used the above clause to tell a racer that he felt the body presented to him was a non-approved JK 70812A.


Mike Swiss
 
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Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - LOL) 
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.






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