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Motor tampering issues at the recent Checkpoint Cup


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#1 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 11:56 PM

No need to go into a lot of detail here, but the SCRRA has decided today to suspend the three racers in question over motor tampering at the recent Parma Checkpoint for three (3) months. They will be eligible to race again in May.
 
The SCRRA has spoken to the racers concerned and explained our decision and has encouraged them to explain or defend their position or protest our decision here on Slotblog or any other forum if they choose to do so.
 
This is a very unfortunate situation which leaves no one feeling good but the majority of the BPR racers are in total agreement with the suspensions and everyone just wants to move on to insure it doesn't happen again.  :)
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#2 Zippity

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 12:31 AM

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who the offenders are/were.
 
To not name them, puts everyone else's name/reputation at stake. Hardly fair is it?

Ron Thornton
 

 


#3 Tim Wilkins

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 12:58 AM

Sounds about right, Bryan. Takes them out of one big race. I'm sure if it happens again the penalty will be much more severe.  

I, for one, would like to see them back to race again.
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#4 Tim Wilkins

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 01:07 AM

Simple question. If it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who the offenders are, why do they have to be named?

No need to stir the pot again. We need to get back to fun and friendly competition.
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#5 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 01:10 AM

You just said it. Everyone knows who they are.

 

If anyone needs more clarification please PM me directly and I will do my best to answer any questions. Is that fair enough?



#6 Zippity

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 02:28 AM

Sorry, gents.

 

I think I misunderstood the intention of the OP - or did I?

 

I wasn't trying to stir the pot.  :)



#7 DCR

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 02:42 AM

It's OK, Zippity. Sometimes the "pot needs to be stirred"... that way the crap floats to the top, and we can skim it off into the trash.

I'll gladly tell you their names, just PM me... or PM Mr. Warmack, he can give you more info then I can.

But we need to move on... and not let this crap happen again.

Take care,

DC...
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#8 tonyp

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 07:29 AM

Excellent outcome. Congrats to the board for making the right choice.
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#9 Tim Neja

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 10:50 AM

Zippity sure is not in the need to know.

 

Great decision SCRRA Board!

 

Let's get back to racing!


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#10 The Number of

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 11:44 AM

Don't care who done it, that always comes out through the grapevine anyway, but what was done and how it was detected will help local tech guys to be able to spot it in the future.

 

Thanks,

 

Bill


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#11 Jason Holmes

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 12:21 PM

Sad to see this happen.
 
Jason
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#12 Foamy

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 12:38 PM

No, what's sad is they were given the chance to give up the motors in question. They did not do that and gave up some other motors thinking nobody would notice.


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#13 tonyp

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 01:16 PM

It's going to be real comfortable for them racing at BPR once they are allowed to again. LOL..


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#14 9lives

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 02:00 PM

Gentlemen,

 

I'm with Jason... this is all very saddening...

 

Please, indulge me for a moment. I know for a fact, that most of us have shared lunch with these fine men at Imperial Burgers and at the track... One of these fine gentlemen spends a lot of time and money, cleaning and gluing the track. We all have raced against each other and acted with mutual respect. Two of these fine men have bought me lunch, loaned me money, brought food to the track for others, offered me tires and motors, etc. They have pitted my cars. These are acts of kindness that demonstrate great character.

 

As I get older it is apparent to me that the art of good living means some sort of ability to forgive and welcome back. That's the challenge for me.  

 

On a final note. We are a dying breed. There are not many slot car racers "racing" anymore. Slot car racing to these fine men is their passion. They don't golf, fish, collect stamps, coins, breed dogs, scrapbook, grow flowers, whittle wood artifacts, or sit by a pond feeding Koi fish, etc. They are like me... old Dudes who RACE SLOT CARS.

 

I can't wait to see them again enjoying their passion.  I look forward to seeing all of you on the 28th. 

 

Sincerely,

 

John Hegedus    


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#15 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 02:29 PM

BPR rocks!

 

At the private track we don't give timeouts... Read what happens if caught cheating -

 

Track Rules.jpg


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#16 Fast Freddie

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 03:11 PM

We had a saying in the Navy. "A thousand attaboys can't make up for one OH SH1T".

 

If I understand the sympathizers correctly it is important to not expose the cheaters to embarrassment and ridicule because they've been given a three-month suspension or because they're nice guys and helped people out. Just keep this in mind: "character isn't determined by what you do when people are watching you but by what you do when they're not watching you".

 

What about all the other racers who were at the race and so disrespected, don't they deserve an apology? I'm sorry for butting in and I may not have the right to speak on this issue but I despise cheaters. The least they should do is an apology, on Slotblog, not only to the Checkpoint Cup racers but to all slot car racers who are trying to keep this hobby alive and fair.


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#17 bbr

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 04:06 PM

The Checkpoint Cup, probably the most coveted Retro race, where everyone wants to do well. It is unfortunate that this happened. Both events: the motor tampering, and the suspension.

 

I was at the flat track race at BPR and most of the racers were still upset that there may have been motor tampering. What the BoD did had to be done, otherwise the atmosphere at the next race would have been very uncomfortable.

 

I have thousands of dollars in motor selection equipment, but I rarely use them to go through hundreds of motors. I don’t consider it a good use of my time. I rather have a nice dinner with my girlfriend.

 

To be successful at this game, one must do a lot of testing, have many chassis, bags of tires, an expert mechanic preparing your car, etc… for those racers that are able to do this, I congratulate them, it is a lot of hard work.

 

I enjoy working on my car, making it better each time, driving each race better. And enjoy watching those that are very good at this endeavor.


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#18 olescratch

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 04:36 PM

I for one don't enter races for this exact reason. It seems like everyone wants to give these people "respect" for what, getting caught cheating? I'm quite sure they were very helpful to others knowing that no matter what, the chances of them getting beat where slim to none due to motor tampering. 

 

I have a problem with allowing them to continue to participate in formal racing seeing as to how they have been caught cheating.The question is WAS THIS THE FIRST TIME CHEATING, OR THE FIRST TIME GETTING CAUGHT??? The lines are already drawn separating the winners and losers depending on who has the most to spend, and opportunity to "select" the best parts depending on their "relationship" with the track owners.  Might as well make it all "run what you brung".

 

BTW, transparency is the only way to expose cheaters, it allows everyone to become aware of the wolves among the sheep!!

 

Just my 2 cents, put it in the bag with the rest that don't really matter. 


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#19 86ed once again

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 04:48 PM

Bryan and John,

 

Glad to see the board handled this and it can be put behind us.  


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#20 Tex

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 04:59 PM

Bryan,

 

No good deed goes unpunished. LOL.

 

1. There is no "board"; it's just a couple o' guys tryin' to do the right thing.

2. You can't make everyone happy. Those of you that want to see things done differently, organize your own races and make yourself happy.

3. Lay off one o' the hardest workin' guys in slot cars or forever be known as a piss-ant whiny crybaby. JEEZ, Louise! :wacko2:


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#21 MSwiss

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 05:08 PM

I know for a fact that most of us have shared lunch with these fine men at Imperial Burgers and at the track... One of these fine gentlemen spends a lot of time and money, cleaning and gluing the track.

 

If only they had an Imperial Burger and a naphtha store in France, maybe Lance Armstrong might not have had his Tour wins taken away.

"Royale with cheese". LOL.


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#22 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 06:01 PM

This was posted in an earlier thread and explains a little of the incident for some who asked...
 

For all the inquiring minds I'll try to keep this brief and just stick to the facts...
 
On Sunday, the day after Can-Am with F1 on the King track, I was practicing on black lane about half hour before F1 tech was to open. One of the racers in question was next to me running on purple. On one lap we came onto the straight about even but by the time we hit the deadman he was just gone. I thought, OMG, and said, "Man, that thing is a missle!  
 
We ran a few more laps and I asked if I could see it. He said yes without hesitation and when I picked it up I was shocked at what I saw. It was a Hawk Retro that someone had ground deep and obvious slots into all three poles in six places!... and I immediately thought... to lighten the entire motor and armature as this was way beyond what would be necessary for rebalancing.  
 
Incredulous, I asked the racer, "What the hell is this?!" and he said he didn't know as that was the way it was given to him. I went to the other racers in question and asked again, What the hell is this?!" and still didn't get any good answers but told them in no uncertain terms that if anything shows up like this in tech that they were gone!! I should have confiscated the motor right then and there but it was practice so I just let it go. They all did OK in F1 but none made it out of the C Main.
   
Certainly nothing can be proven at this point but the fact that all three racers in question made the A Main in Can-Am qualifying does raise a few flags. However, the butchered motor I saw running so well in Sunday's F1 practice was not run in Can-Am as the pics of their cars clearly show normal armature segments. None of the racers in question made the podium on Saturday so no one was inspected any further and it wasn't until Sunday that I saw the doctored motor.
 
I have certainly been in contact with all three of the racers and no need now to go into any of this any further but it is clearly time for the SCRRA to tighten things up a bit as far as general motor inspections are concerned and enforce some kind of penalty for anyone found motor tampering. The rules call for permanent exclusion and perhaps this is a bit harsh for first offenders but certainly some changes are in order as we have been a bit lax in the past in dealing with racers suspected of cheating. We are presently discussing adding a separate motor inspector at the tech table and adding a motor protest/teardown rule.  
 
The racers in question are certainly friends of everyone at BPR and if in fact they were running illegal motors the SCRRA apologizes to everyone and especially any of the racers it had a direct affect on. At this point, even if they didn't run illegal motors they have certainly embarrassed themselves...
 
I am presently in possession of three of the tampered motors that have been sent to me by one of the racers in question. All three have been clearly opened and modified and the evidence couldn't be more damning or incriminating. I haven't opened them up yet as I will probably run them first as I am just curious because this is the first time I have ever seen undoubtedly modified motors make a noticeable performance difference. Please understand again that no tampered motor was proven to have been run in any of the Checkpoint races and at the moment no penalties are planned for any of the racers in question.
 
However, as mentioned previously and elsewhere, the SCRRA does plan to seriously step up their motor inspections at the tech table and impose serious penalties for violators as well as a motor protest rule as we have been a bit lax in the past and that will change. More details to be posted shortly.

 
 Again, not going into any details and I still don't feel as though I need to identify anyone specifically here but on a final note I'll add this, the tampered motors I was sent were tested on Saturday and certainly didn't seem to be anywhere near the motors that were observed at the Checkpoint. I told the racers that I was sorry and even if we were wrong, that the easiest and best solution for everyone at this point was some kind of a suspension to bring closure to this little affair.  Best for them, best for the SCRRA, and best for all the racers and simply just really clears the air for everyone to move on. Like Tony P said it will just make everything more comfortable after they've taken their medicine!


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#23 Gary Donahoe

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 06:56 PM

To those of you who have never raced at Buena Park, it is a great place to race. My guess is that well north of 90% of the racer’s would never cheat. 

 

For more than seven years Retro cars have been raced at BP on the king track under the same basic rules package. Over that time every aspect of the competition has been raised to higher and higher levels, making it extremely difficult to run up front. Unfortunately it is human nature of a few to believe that with all of their knowledge, effort, and ability if they are off the pace it must be because others are cheating, causing them to rationalize cheating themselves. 

 

After serving their penalty I am confident that if sincere remorse is shown and they never cross the line again, the feeling of trust and comradery will return for these racers.  With this action and greater scrutiny hopefully anyone contemplating racing outside the rules will be deterred from doing so.


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#24 Phil Hackett

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 10:03 PM

From what I heard through the grapevine describing those motors as being "tampered" with is like describing a 500 pound aerial bomb as a firecracker. I was told those motors sounded like Group 27s… maybe that's hyperbole but I trust the people who told me that's what they sounded like.

 

So, no, those motors weren't just slightly "adjusted". They were **modified**. Please stop calling it "tampering" and call it what it was.


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#25 John Gorski

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 11:27 PM

Good to see a strong stand taken on this issue and actual cheating found this is a huge plus for our sport and SCRRA.   :clapping: 


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