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Motor tampering issues at the recent Checkpoint Cup


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#51 Mark Wampler

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 05:41 PM

There is still a stock of TSRs to be used up for major races. I'd favor a motor bag, reach in and grab a few. Three motor liimit only. The motors would then be recorded with "secret ID" by the counter person with racers name attached. Only the tech table and counter person has access to that sheet. Do that with RH or any motor.
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#52 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 07:07 PM

If this is all true, okay, my problem is in the time it has taken to make this happen. The fart don't smell anymore... Take care of it quick, not slow; seven weeks is a joke.


Jason,

As I explained to you in my PM, the length of time it took to make a decision on this was the fact that since these racers weren't actually caught cheating in a race. The SCRRA was bending over backwards to give them the benefit of any doubt and trying to give them a chance to come clean. Unfortunately, things just didn't work out, hence the suspension. I think it's probably fair to say that there were degrees of guilt amongst the three in question but the situation just dictated an across the board suspension for all and it just seemed to be the best thing for everyone concerned. I know we can't please everybody but we tried to do what was fair and it took a while.
 
In regards to all of the suggestions and comments on what we should be doing as far as motor security, thanks, but please understand that we were the guys that actually and literally WELDED THE MOTORS SHUT!! :laugh2: for a while, so rest assured that we have tried about everything! I thought the hand-out TSR D3 program with numbered and secretly marked motors was great but some racers disagreed and change seemed to be inevitably in the wind... and so we have what we have now with three legal motor and no hand-outs.

Our basic problem is not a format or motor marking problem, we just need to simply insure that tampered motors don't make it into a race by means of a more secure and thorough motor inspection procedure at tech. We have been checking the podium cars for years now and have even tore some motors down for random inspection and have never found any evidence of any motor modifications. So, as far I could see, no illegal motor has ever made it as far as the podium, but we just need to insure that they don't make it into a race.

:)
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#53 redbackspyder

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 07:26 PM

Jason,

I am really puzzled by you and others... How does the time affect that an incident took place??? Either something happened to warrant the outcome OR it did not...  Does not matter how long it takes to catch a murderer, does it? So, if the SCRRA board was moving to resolve a simmering issue, it did so after exhausting all the possibilities before rendering a judgment. What is wrong with that???
 
If you cheated, and I do know racers that have, it should not matter when it was done... Our group at Buena Park has been way too lenient on people that have tried to pull one over on the group, and because our group up to this point was more lax, it went by the wayside... Don't make me name incidents, but we all know TSRs don't run well backwards...
 
The SCRRA board did exhaustive research into what went on, and am I the only one here that finds it a bit curious that those involved are not commenting, when encouraged to do so...


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#54 bbr

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 07:39 PM

So this latest incident of tampering broke the camel's back... while pass infractions has gone unpunished, these guys got it because it went way more public than before.

(Not trying to justified or condone what they have done)


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#55 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 08:19 PM

So let me get this straight you guys are suspending racers for not cheating during a race?
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#56 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 08:40 PM

So let me get this straight you guys are suspending racers for not cheating during a race?

  Yes........so watch what you practice with! :laugh2:



#57 MSwiss

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 08:47 PM

From what I heard through the grapevine describing those motors as being "tampered" with is like describing a 500 pound aerial bomb as a firecracker. I was told those motors sounded like Group 27s… maybe that's hyperbole but I trust the people who told me that's what they sounded like.
 
So, no, those motors weren't just slightly "adjusted". They were **modified**. Please stop calling it "tampering" and call it what it was.

  

So let me get this straight you guys are suspending racers for not cheating during a race?

 

Correct.

 

Technically, I think they are being suspended for hurting the ears of the other racers.

In defense of them, one racer I talked to described their motors as only sounding like a G12. LOL.


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#58 MSwiss

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 09:08 PM

Why would it bother you that some us don't like the idea of cheating?

Are you one of those "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'" guys?

Mike Swiss
 
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#59 stemmy

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 09:19 PM

You guys need to stop bitching about guys "cheating", go out, and get laid.


LOL. Time for you guys to refill the Viagra.


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#60 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 09:28 PM

No, but I am typically one of the fast guys that only shows up with cars that are properly prepped. I have plenty of extra motors and different tires and pay for track time to make sure my cars are as fast as possible on every lane. If it's not right it isn't raced.


Thomas Jefferson: "Paper is poverty. It is only the ghost of money, and not money itself."
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#61 MSwiss

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 09:35 PM

And how does that pertain to racers upset about cheating in Retro... and you upset that we are discussing it here?

And I hope you realize how pathetic your #58 post was.

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#62 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 09:36 PM

The offending parties didn't cheat. To cheat you need to break rules. Please tell us what rules you need to follow during practice before a race.


Thomas Jefferson: "Paper is poverty. It is only the ghost of money, and not money itself."
-David Parrotta

#63 Mike Patterson

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 09:39 PM

Personally, I'd like to know how to make a HR sound like a G12. If someone could PM me with the info, I'd be grateful.

 

And I'm not going to mod any motors; this is strictly semi-professional curiosity.


We all need to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer.


#64 MSwiss

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 09:45 PM

David,

 

You're absolutely right.

Bryan should have let one of them, a race previous, go through tech with the hand-out motor that was engraved with the same number as his motor... and then busted him.

But as he admitted numerous times he was too lenient.

The suspended racers were invited to defend themselves here, and so far they have chosen not to do so.

If they feel they are being treated unfairly, they also have the option to teach Bryan and the SCRRA a lesson, and to not race with them anymore.


Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
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#65 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 09:50 PM

The offending party's didn't cheat. To cheat you need to break rules. Please tell us what rules you need to follow during practice before a race.

 

The Rules of General Mindlessness :sun_bespectacled: ... I hope no one closes this down as it could deteriorate into something really good.

 

Maybe even one of the accused will chime in with something to add!! :laugh2:


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#66 Cheater

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 09:54 PM

I hope no one closes this down as it could deteriorate into something really good


You optimist... LOL!

At Bryan's insistence, this thread will remain open... until such time as Slotblog's TOU is being violated.
 
Express yourselves nicely, gentlemen. We all have opinions...


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#67 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 10:01 PM

Personally, I'd like to know how to make a HR sound like a G12. If someone could PM me with the info, I'd be grateful.

 

Mike,

 

I did TRY to get one but unfortunately came up empty. 

 

I do know of one racer who will be protested and torn down before he gets anywhere even NEAR Imperial Burger! :laugh2:


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#68 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 10:02 PM

Yeah #58 was a low blow. Feel free to delete.
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-David Parrotta

#69 redbackspyder

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 10:06 PM

You guys need to stop bitching about guys "cheating", go out, and get laid.

 

The next time you come to Buena Park, please point yourself out...

 

I personally want to meet you.


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#70 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 10:07 PM

And I missed the post about using a motor that was not a hand-out that shared a number that was assigned to another racer. In that case that racer should be banned.

It was my impression that the practicing with an alleged cheated up motor is the reason for the ban.

To be fair these details could have been more clear.


Thomas Jefferson: "Paper is poverty. It is only the ghost of money, and not money itself."
-David Parrotta

#71 JerseyJohn

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 10:20 PM

David,

How often do you race Retro in a year?
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#72 racie35

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 10:23 PM

Anybody who thinks it's OK to tamper or look the other way when someone does need only look at this thread and it's spirited response.

If someone shows up with a noticeably faster and on top of that "screaming loud" motor and slaps it on the track... he's calling you a fool... stupid, unable to police him. Arrogance doesn't begin to describe that boldness.

Three months was a lenient suspension.


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#73 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 10:42 PM

And I missed the post about using a motor that was not a hand-out that shared a number that was assigned to another racer. In that case that racer should be banned.

It was my impression that the practicing with an alleged cheated up motor is the reason for the ban.

To be fair these details could have been more clear.


David,

You're absolutely right, the details could have and should have been more clear as it certainly is confusing and perhaps it was my fault for trying to keep the little incident as quiet as possible in the beginning and trying not to identify the individuals.

The whole thing is really a silly little convoluted and almost comical mess but it seems a few good things will end up coming out of it. :)
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#74 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 11:01 PM

Bryan,

I apologize for getting my nose in the SCCRA's business.

I only hope you guys only use facts and not hearsay or to pass judgement on the trio.

Dave
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#75 Cheater

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 11:06 PM

If I may be forgiven for waxing philosophically...

I personally would like to see racers who absolutely have to win elect to pursue another leisure-time activity.
 
This hobby is currently too fragile for such attitudes to be acceptable. Slot racing is not that important in the overall scheme of life and those who feel it is might best be excluded from participation.
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#76 Pappy

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 11:10 PM

If someone shows up with a noticeably faster and on top of that "screaming loud" motor and slaps it on the track... he's calling you a fool... stupid, unable to police him. Arrogance doesn't begin to describe that boldness.

 

I know someone like that.


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#77 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 11:13 PM

When I first read Bryan's post in thread #22 I felt the same way as David. Bryan's words told the story that the suspected motor tampering was not caught in tech or during the actual racing program. I sat quietly to see how this would unfold to see if "new findings" would surface. Practice is practice to me and I would not disqualify someone even if they had a tampered motor with a 3 speed transmission running laps in practice. The majority of you are professional tinkerers some with purpose built hobby rooms filled with machining equipment, I would expect it! Many of the responses and posts from those in the know almost have a smirk attached to them which leads me to believe that there is damning evidence that illegal motors were used, just not caught in the act. In my head that would be the only reason that suspensions would be imposed without any hard facts proven. If that is the case then I get it, if not I am sure most would agree that an unwarranted speeding ticket never sits well with anyone regardless if we sped 2 days prior. I will trust that those in the know really know and that actions were not taken just off suspicions. 

 

Without a doubt I do not condone any outside the rules practices when it comes to racing. 


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#78 DCR

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 11:36 PM

​… Arizona fresh!…

 

Can of Worms.png


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#79 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 12:15 AM

I apologize for getting my nose in the SCCRA's business.

I only hope you guys only use facts and not hearsay or to pass judgement on the trio.


Dave, 
     
Certainly no problem and I apologize also but as you can tell I am pretty much burned out by the whole affair. You can be sure the difficult decisions we made were based on facts.

But just because I think we did the right thing, it doesn't make me feel any better.
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#80 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 12:44 AM

... Arizona Fresh!...


Like I said I am pretty much burned out by the whole affair
 
They got suspended. Give it a break.


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#81 Jason Holmes

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 01:13 AM

Greg,
 
Bryan has spoken. Please lock it.

#82 usadar

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 05:49 AM

SCRRA racers,
 
Bryan has made an agonizing decision to settle the matter in the small community of SoCal Retro. Let us respect his great effort and move on for the better future of Retro racing.

Our Retro Tokyo racers are one of those who suffered most from this motor cheating issue.

As long as SCRRA promises us to make an effort to prevent this kind of disaster, however,  I will continue to support SCRRA and be glad to race at Buena Park Raceway.  
 
Good Racing,
 
Haruki
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Where do we go from here: chaos or community?

#83 Cheater

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 07:43 AM

Bryan has spoken. Please lock it.


Jason,

Bryan is the moderator for this forum so this thread gets closed when he wants it closed.

So far, he indicates he prefers not to close it and I will respect his wishes.
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#84 JerseyJohn

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 11:02 AM

Hey, Bryan buddy...

 

They don't pay you enough, brother. Have a stiff one and spend some hang time with your crew at the shop.

 

It's all good, buddy.


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#85 John Streisguth

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 12:06 PM

No matter what decision anyone makes, it can/will be second-guessed. I have never raced at BPR, hopefully some day I'll get out there, so I will refrain from passing any judgement as it's not my place. 

 

Bryan has elected to take charge of this particular situation (and the fall-out that goes with it) and has made the call. I hope those that race at BPR will stand behind him.


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"Whatever..."

#86 redbackspyder

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 02:31 PM

Bryan has spoken. Please lock it.


Jason, leave a discussion alone... If you don't want to read it, change the channel, but if something possibly good might come out, why is there an incessant need to lock a thread...

If you do not like what is being discussed, just read on somewhere else... Slotblog has a habit of locking interesting threads, when some people are trying to learn what others might be thinking...

Refer to Bryan's post about General Mindlessness, gives a light but interesting view.
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Mill Conroy
 

AKA : TWO LAP CONROY, Anointed Trigger Monkey by Mike Swiss

 

Deal me life's toughest cards, without chance for hope nor fame, just let me play this one last hand, and I'll win this whole damn game.

Second Most Interesting Man in the World.


#87 Cheater

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 02:43 PM

Slotblog has a habit of locking interesting threads...


Rarely occurs before they get five or six pages long and usually because the required civility starts to disappear and/or the discussion becomes tiresome and repatitive.
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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#88 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 02:51 PM

No matter what decision anyone makes, it can/will be second-guessed. I have never raced at BPR, hopefully some day I'll get out there, so I will refrain from passing any judgement as it's not my place. 
 
Bryan has elected to take charge of this particular situation (and the fall-out that goes with it) and has made the call. I hope those that race at BPR will stand behind him.

 
I think the decisions the SCRRA has made regarding the suspensions and the tightening of motor tech are the correct ones and have the support of almost all the BPR racers. The fallout and agro just go with the territory! :laugh2:
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#89 Zippity

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 03:01 PM

Please keep this discussion open.

 

It has ramifications far beyond BPR.



#90 DPmax

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 04:22 PM

Just curious, who is on the BoG/BoD/BoA of SCRRA?
 
Didn't see it pinned anywhere (sorry if I missed it).
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#91 redbackspyder

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 07:35 PM

Max,

 

That is only given out on a need to know basis... Shrouded in a blood oath, more tightly held than the formula to Coca-Cola.

 

If ISIS ever found out, these would be marked men.

 

But I do know Phillipe was a former board member...


Mill Conroy
 

AKA : TWO LAP CONROY, Anointed Trigger Monkey by Mike Swiss

 

Deal me life's toughest cards, without chance for hope nor fame, just let me play this one last hand, and I'll win this whole damn game.

Second Most Interesting Man in the World.


#92 Mark Wampler

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 08:42 PM

If ISIS ever found out, these would be marked men.

 
You're a funny guy, Mill. I know four of the five. BoD should have five. Public knowledge, eh?


You can quote me.

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#93 Mark Wampler

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 08:45 PM

Bill V for SCRRA BoD.


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You can quote me.

-Mark

#94 Danny Zona

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 09:31 PM

I remember when Bill was the USRA tech Nazi. LOL.

I love some Bill. Super intense but funny as well.
KellyRacing (loved by few hated by many)

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Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!!

#95 Phil Nyland

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 09:35 PM

Slot car racing...

The problem with this term is it has the word "race" in it. "Did someone say race?"  :crazy:   

Add the words race + men + ego + testosterone = :bomb:  :wacko2: 

Let's change the name to...  slot car mingling (very civilized.) Then we won't have to worry about winning that plastic trophy, we put next to the other plastic trophy, that we admire once in a blue moon, that anyone else couldn't care less about!  

And have the kids say: what's a slot car?. :laugh2:
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#96 86ed once again

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 09:52 PM

I thought there were only two BoD LOL. Now there are five?

I doubt Bill would even want to be any sort of official any more.
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#97 Mark Wampler

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 10:03 PM

John Cukras, John Wakamatsu, Terry Schmid, Bryan Warmack.
 
Oscar Morales should be alternate if he was among us.


You can quote me.

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#98 86ed once again

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 11:18 PM

I knew Cukras and Bryan, I had a hunch Terry was on it. Had no clue Wakamatsu was on it though.
James Grinstead
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#99 bbr

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 06:27 AM

The winner should buy lunch for everyone at Imperial Burger!
Everyone would be happy.

If I was leading, I think my car would, for some mysterious reason, just not run anymore in the last minute of the race...

"No, you first (I won the last ten times)".
"No, after you (I like the free lunch)".
"You are too kind, I insist, after you (please win this race, I can't pay my rent if I win again)".


Mike Low
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Give me enough rope and I'll build a fast car... or hang myself?

#100 bbr

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 07:08 AM

I knew Cukras and Bryan, I had a hunch Terry was on it. Had no clue Wakamatsu was on it though.


I think John C does most of the promo work, Bryan the race reporting and posting of SCRRA business. The other John and Terry helps out at the major events.

At least that's what I have observed.
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Mike Low
Cry like a baby, drive like a girl, walk like a man.
Give me enough rope and I'll build a fast car... or hang myself?





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