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Motor tampering issues at the recent Checkpoint Cup


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#26 Grammy Winner

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 02:42 AM

"Just keep this in mind: "character isn't determined by what you do when people are watching you but by what you do when they're not watching you"".
 
This is at the core of this issue. Everyone is good and kind when the lights are on, it is what we do when no one is watching; and how we treat people who we do not "need"that reveals our true character. Any reasonable human being from any society, anywhere and of any background would find cheating your friends dispicable and worthy of community ridicule. 

You don't have to be a local to understand broad human values.

I also consider two of the three my friends and I have no intention of unfriending them on FB. We all have the capacity to forgive, and we should do so without judgement... after punishment has been doled out!


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#27 Cheater

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 08:04 AM

Guys,

I've deleted a couple of recent posts from this thread which came too close to denigrating others who have posted to this thread due to their stated opinions.

Please keep in mind that everyone here has the right to their own opinion, even if it is wrong or idiotic in your view.

And my opinion is that it is getting very close to the time to close down this thread.


Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#28 racie35

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 08:36 AM

I fear this is just starting to simmer. It'll come to a boil soon.
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#29 Cheater

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 08:53 AM

If this thread stays within the bounds of "civil discourse", it will be allowed to boil merrily away.


Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#30 racie35

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 09:04 AM

No adding ingredients!!
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#31 The Number of

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 09:36 AM

Yeah, it is already a recipe for disaster!
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#32 redbackspyder

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 12:39 PM

Someone ask the SCRRA if they want this thread locked... This was an important issue, and I believe it was stated that the racers involved were encouraged to voice their own opinions and to defend themselves if they so wished to do so, which would be impossible if the thread is locked...
 
This is an SCRRA issue, and I hope that every SCRRA racer posts how he feels about the situation, because just maybe if the air gets cleared there will be a sufficient way for things to move on... Otherwise, all the ill feelings about all of this will just simmer until it hits the raceway.
 
Racers may be willing to forgive and move on, but they will never forget.
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#33 NY Nick

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 12:50 PM

So lets get back to the Burger place.
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#34 Samiam

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 12:52 PM

Mill,
 
Yes, this particular incident is a SCRRA issue. But the ramifications go beyond BPR and even beyond our shores.

Since the JK Hawk Retro has spread to so many racing series, what happens at BPR doesn't stay at BPR. Everyone who runs these motors are looking at this with great interest. 

I'm glad that Bryan has been as transparent as possible with this. Now everyone can go forward and keep the Retro Racing phenom going in a positive direction.
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#35 Jason Holmes

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 01:53 PM

I think we should go back to hand-out motors at all major races and be done with it. This would have never happened if we would have not changed this rule.
 
My 2 cents...
 
Jason


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#36 MSwiss

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 02:10 PM

I think we should GO BACK to Hand Out Motors....this would have never happened

 

Maybe, maybe not.

At a previous hand-out race, one of the suspended racers tried to tech with a motor engraved with the same number as Bryan.

Side note, why didn't he engrave that motor with the number of a motor he had purchased? LOL.


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#37 Half Fast

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 02:21 PM

At a previous handout race, one of the suspended racers tried to tech with a motor engraved with the same number as Bryan.

 
Hmmm-
 
If one of the now suspended racers was a serial cheater, maybe the punishment was far too light and maybe some public shaming is appropriate.
 
Food for thought!

Bill Botjer

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#38 Jason Holmes

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 02:48 PM

Mike,

 

Bryan must be talking to you off the record because I have never heard of this happening.

 

Jason



#39 bbr

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 02:57 PM

The purpose of stock can motor racing is to provide a power unit that is nearly equal to all the racers.
In reality this is not happening.
Also in SCRRA racing, its is design to be all about the chassis... not motors nor aero (at least that's my understanding).

I will say this again,
Do whatever you want to the motor, but when you come to the tech table if your motor do not meet a specified performace spec,
you can't run it. Let's say 8000 rpm at the wheel at 6v for example. Can do it with hand held tach.
Mike Low
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Give me enough rope and I'll build a fast car... or hang myself?

#40 MSwiss

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 02:59 PM

Bryan Must be talking to you off the record because I have never heard of this happening

 
While I don't think he took out an ad in the Buena Park Examiner, advertising it, I've definitely heard other racers refer to the previous incident, since the Checkpoint Cup.
 

If one of the now suspended racers was a serial cheater, Maybe the punishment was far too light and maybe some public shaming is appropriate.

 
Probably not necessary.
 
I'm guessing the offender already got fined by the S.S.M.C.*, for sloppy cheating.
 
*Secret Society of Motor Cheats


Mike Swiss
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#41 Gary Donahoe

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 03:20 PM

I am not against hand-out motors but hand-out motors keep honest people honest. A devious cheater can counterfeit their favorite motor to look just like their hand-out. With the help of an accomplice this could be done in a very short period of time.
 
By the way I witnessed what Mike Swiss described in post #36 with my own two eyes.
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#42 racie35

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 03:45 PM

The suspension shoulda went down like this...

Ummm, we have an issue with your moto,r Speedy... we're gonna confiscate it and have it inspected closer. If it's been altered it's being destroyed and your suspension will stand till you post a bond to race again... after your three months. That money is going into a fund for others if you repeat.

Don't look at me funny, Speedy... you brought this on yourself... I like you but that's not making it right now.
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#43 Jason Holmes

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 03:46 PM

If this is all true, okay, my problem is in the time it has taken to make this happen. The fart don't smell anymore... Take care of it quick, not slow; seven weeks is a joke.
 
Jason
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#44 kvanpelt

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 03:47 PM

I am not against hand-out motors but hand-out motors keep honest people honest. A devious cheater can counterfeit their favorite motor to look just like their hand-out. With the help of an accomplice this could be done in a very short period of time.


Let's see... cellphone, picture, text buddy in the parking lot with engraver... probably less time than it would take the rest of us to break-in our motors.
 
Gary, I'd say you are correct!
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#45 A. J. Hoyt

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 03:58 PM

There are easy ways to mark hand-out motors that cannot be seen without special equipment.

 

Only the tech inspector knows where to look and what he is looking for, a number coded from the engraved number.

 

He takes all tech'd cars and inspects all motors for the mark at the same time (two minutes duration).

 

Any "swapped ID" motors are found right there, perps are asked to leave and not come back.

 

No drama, no problem. If you don't know the code, don't even try to swap a hand-out motor.

 

Keeps honest people honest.

 

AJ


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#46 Noose

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 04:03 PM

Uh, doesn't the race director or raceway mark the tech sheet with the motor numbers bought at the time they are obtained? Otherwise the tech guy should get a sheet then from the counter on who bought what motors so something can be used as a cross reference.
 
No secret markings needed.

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#47 MSwiss

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 04:22 PM

As I engrave the motors, I leave them in order so I can confirm I haven't made a mistake.

I'm skeptical anyone could duplicate my style of engraving, but just the same, I go ahead and take a series of pictures and leave them on my camera.

If you take a look at engraving, done with a Dremel "vibrator", in the viewfinder at 8X, I think you'll see why I'm 99.7% confident I would catch a racer engraving his own cheater motor.

IOW, it's not the same as forging your parents signature on your 4th grade report card. Lol

PS: A.J., your secret markings would only work if you keep pics of the motor, and then it wouldn't be necessary (to have additional "secret" ones).

Mike Swiss
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
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#48 Noose

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 04:31 PM

I've done the markings too for the R4 and RetroPalooza and they can't be easily replicated. 


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Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
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"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#49 Pappy

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 04:40 PM

Noose,

 

All you have to do is paint the motors like you do the bodies. No one can paint like you.  :)


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#50 Jason Holmes

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 05:17 PM

You guys are talking about hand-outs which is great but this was not the case here. Shoot, I ran FB4 and FB5 motors here in this one. No special markings are needed just good records on what you did and a watchful eye in tech when they return.
 
Jason
 
Hand-outs at major races! :)
 
Make mine orange with flames ;)







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