340 replies to this topic

[Matt Sheldon]

If the goal is to provide a power plant thats equal...
Then you are far better off in letting the motors be blueprinted.
For about $15 you can balance, cut the comm, adjust the brushes on these things and everyone will have a good motor.

Normally I would agree, however i think that with this type of motor you would take a playing field that is now extremely competitive and create rockets vs. ho hums. Over reacting to an isolated incident is not the best course of action.

[bbr]

So we will continue to buy 100s of motor to find a few good ones...

I have raced HO forever. When we race stock arms (untouched), I hated that class. I had to buy/find many arms to find a decent one. I rather raced the mod class where arms were open.
Spend $30-$40 to get a arm that is fast as any and be done with it.
Now we allow the stock class arms to be balanced and comm cut.
Buy a couple of those now and be done with it, no more searching.

[Pappy]

You let people work on their own motor's in Retro and you'll lose half the participant's.

[Half Fast]

Right on Pappy!

 

I, for one, never want to see the inside of a slot car motor again!

 

Cheers

[bbr]

The racing then is what it is.

Will the massaging of motors stop... better and undectable ways will be used.

[Pat Skeggs]

What Kenny at SALs about 5 years ago was smart . Every race was a motor buy out policy. If you won the race people could buy your motor for $20. He did this because one or two cats had motors that were questionable. So after about 5 to 10 weeks we all had fast motors. This evened the field. As a matter of fact one of these cats (who won about 8 races in a row)sold his car to mean Gene before the race. He said he could win with a secondary car.Mean Gene won that race as well as the next 5 or 6 races.Im not saying a motor buy out will work for you guys but it did for us.

[Fast Freddie]

I've never understood how allowing racers to blueprint their motors would make any form of slot car racing worse. Not one person on any slot car blog has ever answered the question "Why is blueprinting so repulsive to some slot car racers?" I have come to my own conclusion that they feel if racers are allowed to blueprint their own motors they will naturally cheat and that is simply not true, at least no more than is happening right now. There are some who will follow the rules and some who won't, it's human nature, and that won't change. No motor builder ever insisted that everyone HAS to build their own motors just like no chassis builder has ever insisted that every racer HAS to build their own chassis. We all know that doesn't happen.



So anyone!! "Why is blueprinting motors so repulsive?"

[raisin27]

I can only speak for myself of course, but in my case I think Pappy is right.

 

I was known as a pretty fair motor builder back in my day, but I honestly think if I had to put the time and effort into motors now that I did back then I probably wouldn't be doing this.

[Tim Neja]

If the goal is to provide a power plant thats equal...
Then you are far better off in letting the motors be blueprinted.
For about $15 you can balance, cut the comm, adjust the brushes on these things and everyone will have a good motor.

If ANY of that were true Mike answer one simple question---- when the guys with "puppy dog" programs got out dated by the new Retro Hawk--remember-these were motors that WERE being rebuilt and worked on---there have been guys selling their ENTIRE program--and MANY--had over 50 motors in their stable!!! So WHY did they need SO many motors??

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ANY ELECTRIC MOTOR BEING EQUAL IN HORSEPOWER!!!  All it will do to try and go with an UNSEALED motor---is make it a LOT more expensive to race!! Same old argument--- HO is NOT retro!! Try racing box stock 12's---motors that are COMPLETELY assembled by the builder---you'll find it just becomes an ARMS race instead of just a motor race!! Sadly--it doesn't matter if you build the motor--or bolt in a sealed one--only at most  %20 MAY be good enough to race--%50 will be good for practice or breaking in tires-- and %30 will be just plane JUNK!  Not worth putting in ANY car except maybe to practice with on a flat track!!  It's the nature of the beast!! 

Sadly--the best way to keep people from cheating--is ENOUGH rules to catch them with--and punishments when they ARE caught!  

[Bryan Warmack]

What Kenny at SALs about 5 years ago was smart . Every race was a motor buy out policy. If you won the race people could buy your motor for $20. He did this because one or two cats had motors that were questionable. So after about 5 to 10 weeks we all had fast motors. This evened the field. As a matter of fact one of these cats (who won about 8 races in a row)sold his car to mean Gene before the race. He said he could win with a secondary car.Mean Gene won that race as well as the next 5 or 6 races.Im not saying a motor buy out will work for you guys but it did for us.

      We thought about this as well as the protest/teardown procedure................but what if 10 people want Joe Racers motor?? Do we have an auction?

[Danny Zona]

What Kenny at SALs about 5 years ago was smart . Every race was a motor buy out policy. If you won the race people could buy your motor for $20. He did this because one or two cats had motors that were questionable. So after about 5 to 10 weeks we all had fast motors. This evened the field. As a matter of fact one of these cats (who won about 8 races in a row)sold his car to mean Gene before the race. He said he could win with a secondary car.Mean Gene won that race as well as the next 5 or 6 races.Im not saying a motor buy out will work for you guys but it did for us.

One down fall to motor claim rule is some would claim a motor and install it in their car. Their car still wouldn't be as fast as the car that had their motor claimed. Then the claimer would say the motor was sabotaged.

Of course car setup had nothing to do with speed in their mind.

[Pat Skeggs]

There were no claims of sabotage because you got the motor as soon as the raced finished. Kenny would pull it out after the race right in front of you.So if you went slower the next week it was you and your car set up. You could not say I don't have a motor like the winners because now you did.

[Tex]

I think I see Bryan's evil plan, leaving this thread open.... let them babble away, expend all their hot air, and then pass out from hyper-ventilation... THEN it will become quiet.

 

Very cunning, Mr. Warmack... I LIKE it!

[MSwiss]

There were no claims of sabotage because you got the motor as soon as the raced finished. Kenny would pull it out after the race right in front of you.So if you went slower the next week it was you and your car set up. You could not say I don't have a motor like the winners because now you did.

As Bryan asked, how do you determine who gets first crack?

Is there a rotating list?

[gotboostedvr6]

Lowest finish position gets first Crack at it.

[MSwiss]

What happens if the 2nd place car pulls off the last heat to finish last?

Or someone sandbags for a month or so to build up his motor program?

[Bill from NH]

      We thought about this as well as the protest/teardown procedure................but what if 10 people want Joe Racers motor?? Do we have an auction?

 

The lowest finishing racer that night gets the first opportunity to buy the winning motor. If that guy doesn't want it, the next to the lowest finisher gets the chance to buy it. Of course, you don't want to set the buy-out fee high enough for the original owner to buy a fleet of replacement motors. Something like the retail motor cost, plus $5 would be more realistic.

[redbackspyder]

Thank you Bryan for keeping this thread open, against the wishes of others....It has been very interesting to see all the different opinions and to see where the thread goes....

[gotboostedvr6]

Dnf need not apply.

[Gator Bob]

........ Every race was a motor buy out policy. If you won the race people could buy your motor for $20.

 

Claim rule works.

Did in 1:1

 

2 times retail is fair for slots.

[MSwiss]

David,
How about if you break midrace?

I'd sooner hear how Kenny did it at Slots-a-Lot.

[raisin27]

A claimer rule is an interesting concept, but why would the lowest finisher get first chance? Seems to me the highest finisher should get first opportunity at the claim. We are supposed to award winners aren't we? This would also address the sandbagging issue.

 

Not exactly on topic but an interesting claimer incident........

 

At a local 1/1 short track where there was a claimer rule one of the competitors raced a Cadillac motor instead of the small block Chevy every one else ran. His theory was that he could do pretty much what he wanted because the Cadillac motor would be useless to any of the other racers and therefore nobody would claim it.

[bbr]

If ANY of that were true Mike answer one simple question---- when the guys with "puppy dog" programs got out dated by the new Retro Hawk--remember-these were motors that WERE being rebuilt and worked on---there have been guys selling their ENTIRE program--and MANY--had over 50 motors in their stable!!! So WHY did they need SO many motors??

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ANY ELECTRIC MOTOR BEING EQUAL IN HORSEPOWER!!!  All it will do to try and go with an UNSEALED motor---is make it a LOT more expensive to race!! Same old argument--- HO is NOT retro!! Try racing box stock 12's---motors that are COMPLETELY assembled by the builder---you'll find it just becomes an ARMS race instead of just a motor race!! Sadly--it doesn't matter if you build the motor--or bolt in a sealed one--only at most  %20 MAY be good enough to race--%50 will be good for practice or breaking in tires-- and %30 will be just plane JUNK!  Not worth putting in ANY car except maybe to practice with on a flat track!!  It's the nature of the beast!! 

Sadly--the best way to keep people from cheating--is ENOUGH rules to catch them with--and punishments when they ARE caught!  

 

Yes the motors will be still different, but instead of being pulled by 10 ft on the front straight, you are being pulled by only a couple of feet, now will you be more interested in racing on the king?

As good a driver as you are Tim, you will be back up with him at the lead on... now how fun would that be?

 

Take the spoiler off the cars, run less spray glue, make the driver drive the car even more... that will make the motor even less important

[Pappy]

I've never understood how allowing racers to blueprint their motors would make any form of slot car racing worse. Not one person on any slot car blog has ever answered the question "Why is blueprinting so repulsive to some slot car racers?" No motor builder ever insisted that everyone HAS to build their own motors just like no chassis builder has ever insisted that every racer HAS to build their own chassis. 

So anyone!! "Why is blueprinting motors so repulsive?"

Because some know how to do it and most don't.

 

If you have to have someone else build your motors for you then you are at their mercy. If you are not their good buddy do you think you will get the really "fast ones"?

 

What is the turn out for a race where you can build your own motors compared to Retro? Just asking.

[The Number of]

  Claiming rule order,2 people claim it,coin flip,3 claims,rock,paper scissors,4 or more claims, names in hat and draw.