Jump to content




Photo

Retro Can-Am body situation at BPR


  • Please log in to reply
134 replies to this topic

#26 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,706 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 20 March 2015 - 01:31 PM

Bryan,

 

Did any of these hi-downforce devil bodies perform remarkably better?


Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.





#27 redbackspyder

redbackspyder

    Renegade, Mutineer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,995 posts
  • Joined: 09-January 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rowland Heights, CA

Posted 20 March 2015 - 04:08 PM

If you are having an issue getting O/S bodies, call Ron, he will sell them, or ask your raceway to order them from him.... Funny, I got an order within a week, and I told my raceway that all they had to do is place an order, and they would get made...  

 

But, you can lead horses to water, but cannot make them drink... Everyone has a cell phone, so dial the digits...

 

How about running a Lola or Ferrari? Duran certainly seems to be able to win with them, as does Bryan...


Mill Conroy
 

AKA : TWO LAP CONROY, Anointed Trigger Monkey by Mike Swiss

 

Deal me life's toughest cards, without chance for hope nor fame, just let me play this one last hand, and I'll win this whole damn game.

Second Most Interesting Man in the World.


#28 Mark Wampler

Mark Wampler

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,008 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Santa Maria, CA

Posted 20 March 2015 - 05:16 PM

Nice, but flatster racers don't need to worry about 5.5 gram bodies, or should they?


You can quote me.

-Mark

#29 Mike K

Mike K

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,250 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 20 March 2015 - 05:21 PM

If you are having an issue getting O/S bodies, call Ron, he will sell them, or ask your raceway to order them from him.... Funny, I got an order within a week, and I told my raceway that all they had to do is place an order, and they would get made...  
 
But, you can lead horses to water, but cannot make them drink... Everyone has a cell phone, so dial the digits...

 
Guess it's getting tough to support the local raceway...


  • Bernie and Samiam like this

So much DRAMA for such small cars....
Mike Kravitz

Don't DQ me for having the wrong SHADE of orange on my McLaren... after all, it's ONLY a toy car!!!


#30 Mark Wampler

Mark Wampler

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,008 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Santa Maria, CA

Posted 20 March 2015 - 06:42 PM

If there's going to be a supply of bodies, then the track should be first to receive shipments.


  • Samiam likes this
You can quote me.

-Mark

#31 Foamy

Foamy

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,577 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cali, baby!

Posted 20 March 2015 - 09:15 PM

The Parma Ti22 should be made legal.

The 1970 rule is BS for an excuse as there are two different bodies listed as legal that are 1970.
Dennis Hill
 
"Just once I want my life to be like an '80s movie,
preferably one with a really awesome musical number for no apparent reason."

#32 Bryan Warmack

Bryan Warmack

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,567 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 21 March 2015 - 12:54 AM

Did any of these hi-downforce devil bodies perform remarkably better?


Mike,

I don't recall any of the cars running IRRA® style bodies that we have allowed to run ending up on the podium or even being in the A Main for that matter. On the King track, I have tried several IRRA® style higher downforce bodies and really haven't found a lot of difference in handling or lap times, but on the flat track they definitely are an advantage. However, I think a high downforce body with a super lightweight car of 60-70 grams and some serious development on the King track might be a COMPLETELY different story.
 
When D3 became the SCRRA I was all for just taking the IRRA® bodies across the board until John Cukras said "he didn't want SoCal Retro to turn into $100 wing cars".  John didn't like the ever-changing and performance enhancing always longer and wider bodies. This clicked with me and I knew exactly what he was talking about and I agreed and still agree 100%. The IRRA® has a 100 gram weight limit and higher downforce bodies and our little group out here has no weight limit but bodies with less downforce. In theory our general philosophy is one in which the chassis plays a primary role in car handling and the aerodynamics are secondary and again this is something I agree with 100%. Unfortunately, at present, most of our legal bodies are scarce for a variety of reasons...
 
One very practical reason is that I don't think anyone is getting rich making bodies for a small group of SCRRA racers at Buena Park Raceway... So maybe reality is catching up to the idealists.  :laugh2:
 
We'll wait and see what happens next week at the King track race on the 28th.


  • Joe Mig likes this

#33 JimF

JimF

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,006 posts
  • Joined: 20-June 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 21 March 2015 - 12:55 AM

IMO and FWIW... there are number of possible solutions.

 

1) Run a legal listed body and ya got what ya got... if ya don't gots the cool one... run what ya do got, it's on you.

2) Red Fox RFD336C IS the Kirby long nose and it's a cleaner pull than the O/S 415L (it is VERY thin however).

3) Allow some (or one) of the Parma high DF Ti22 or the Lola 163 but with 1/4" spoilers. (this is a pretty good equalizer).

4) Wake Victor up.

5) Ditto for Ron.

 

No offense intended to anyone here and again... IMO... but... lack of forethought/planning ahead by some racers does not necessarily constitute an emergency for everyone else.

 

Just an example of the last point. Say that on raceday, clearly the fastest tire is the JK 8703T, and the raceway doesn't have any. Would this suggest that that tire be banned for a few on that day because nobody else could buy them that day?

 

Just suggesting that personal responsibility of each racer would suggest that said racer would have some of the (whatever) best stuff ready to go. If it happens that he doesn't and then a cyclical supply situation makes that item temporarily unavailable... then the racer that didn't plan ahead can either make do with the legal items that are available or... request a rule change so that everyone else could accommodate his lack of planning. Either way could work of course but it's up to the organization to decide which is appropriate.

 

Just sayin'...


  • Tex and Samiam like this
Jim Fowler

#34 Bryan Warmack

Bryan Warmack

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,567 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 21 March 2015 - 09:59 AM

The Parma Ti22 should be made legal.

The 1970 rule is BS for an excuse as there are two different bodies listed as legal that are 1970.

 

The D3 rule that bodies must be from BEFORE 1970 was changed when the SCRRA took over. It is now APPROXIMATELY 1970...

 

The Parma Ti22s are not legal because they are very wide, VERY long, and slammed to the point that they provide VERY high side dams... like many of the O/S TIs, which makes them great slot car bodies if downforce is the goal.  

 

Trying to somewhat restrict aerodynamic downforce has been the SCRRA's position and the long nose Kirby Ti has pretty much been the limit.


  • Joe Mig and Tim Neja like this

#35 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,706 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 21 March 2015 - 10:24 AM

Did the guys who ran them recently seem to have any performance advantage?

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#36 bbr

bbr

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,374 posts
  • Joined: 08-March 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:LA

Posted 21 March 2015 - 11:00 AM

The Retro racing has painted themselves into a corner.
Everyone runs a Ti22.
Limit the advantage of the Ti22 bodies (make them run 1/4" spoilers) and you many see other bodies used.

But the question here is availibility... Racer or raceway, ya got to plan ahead


Mike Low
Cry like a baby, drive like a girl, walk like a man.
Give me enough rope and I'll build a fast car... or hang myself?

#37 Eddie Fleming

Eddie Fleming

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,055 posts
  • Joined: 27-April 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fayetteville, GA

Posted 21 March 2015 - 11:40 AM

How about no spoilers on the TI22? They come with side dams and a rear lip like no other body, not to mention you can trim the front all the way up.


Eddie Fleming

#38 9lives

9lives

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 111 posts
  • Joined: 18-July 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Beach, CA

Posted 21 March 2015 - 11:46 AM

Mill...
 
Who is "Ron"?
 
Bryan and Mill...
 
Why doesn't Debbie have these bodies in stock? Why so much "drama" to keep these bodies in stock and purchase these bodies? I'd like to buy from Debbie, but was just notified that "we are trying to order O/S, but can't".  
 
Why can't we race the Parma Ti22? Please advise. 
John Hegedus

#39 PCH Parts Express

PCH Parts Express

    Posting Leader

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,128 posts
  • Joined: 27-December 09
  • Gender:Male

Posted 21 March 2015 - 12:12 PM

The O/S 415L and the TSR-24 are popular. What other O/S part numbers are allowed?

 

Here are a couple of other O/S Ti22 part numbers.

 

408

408L


Scott Salzberg
PCH Parts Express

#40 DPmax

DPmax

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 270 posts
  • Joined: 19-October 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Anaheim, CA

Posted 22 March 2015 - 12:55 AM

Ha, my evil plan is finally coming together. For months I have been secretly buying all the Ti22s while racing a Lola T160... Now all of you will be forced to run T160s and I'll have all the Ti22s to myself (insert maniacal laugh)!!!


  • Tex and DCR like this
Max Bowers

#41 TrueScale

TrueScale

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 10 posts
  • Joined: 27-August 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orange County, CA

Posted 22 March 2015 - 10:18 AM

I'm awake... but as usual, lost!

 

Please explain, Jim.


Victor Ferguson

TrueScale Products

#42 Mark Wampler

Mark Wampler

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,008 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Santa Maria, CA

Posted 22 March 2015 - 11:24 AM

IMO and FWIW... there are number of possible solutions.

 

1) Run a legal listed body and ya got what ya got... if ya don't gots the cool one... run what ya do got, it's on you.

2) Red Fox RFD336C IS the Kirby long nose and it's a cleaner pull than the O/S 415L (it is VERY thin however).

3) Allow some (or one) of the Parma high DF Ti22 or the Lola 163 but with 1/4" spoilers (this is a pretty good equalizer).

 

A couple of us have run the Parma Lola T163. It's a limo of a body but no need for any spoiler. There's plenty in stock (PCH).

 

Just outlaw or limit  spoilers on certain bodies. Easy solutions are possible.


You can quote me.

-Mark

#43 Samiam

Samiam

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,660 posts
  • Joined: 18-January 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, NY

Posted 22 March 2015 - 11:42 AM

Who is "Ron"?


That would be Ron Hershman. He is O/S bodies. And Fast Ones products.

If he is selling direct to customers (Mill), that would make distributors and raceways very unhappy. For that reason alone I would not buy his products. But I have enough reasons already.
Sam Levitch
 
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
     Robert Mueller, special counsel (2013)

#44 Bryan Warmack

Bryan Warmack

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,567 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 March 2015 - 05:14 PM

Why doesn't Debbie have these bodies in stock? Why so much "drama" to keep these bodies in stock and purchase these bodies? I'd like to buy from Debbie, but was just notified that "we are trying to order O/S, but can't".  
 
Why can't we race the Parma Ti22? Please advise.


John,

I advise you to call BPR immediately and tell them to hold you a couple of the Tis that Victor just delivered!!! 

Hope you can make it next Saturday!


  • usadar likes this

#45 redbackspyder

redbackspyder

    Renegade, Mutineer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,995 posts
  • Joined: 09-January 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rowland Heights, CA

Posted 22 March 2015 - 10:45 PM

That would be Ron Hershman. He is O/S bodies. And Fast Ones products.

If he is selling direct to customers (Mill), that would make distributors and raceways very unhappy. For that reason alone I would not buy his products. But I have enough reasons already.

 

Sam,

 

Whether you buy them or not, the Outisight bodies were a staple at Buena Park Raceway... If the raceway or distributors will not place an order, what would a reasonable person expect to do? If you have no food, move to where the food is... If you have no bodies, then pick up the phone and dial for yourself... There is no excuse, and if I piss off the distributor or raceway, then they are not doing their job, now are they??? You can only try to educate people, but if they will not take the advice, then you take matters into your own hands. If a manufacturer is going to sit around waiting for orders, he will be out of business. Many raceways and distributors either do not have the means financially, or they are just not listening to their customers... Why would I be in the wrong for placing an order??? 

 

Must be amazing to be so righteous, but the politics of all of this is lost on me... I just want to have bodies to race with, and I know how to get them, and I am not shy about calling Victor or Ron, both admirable suppliers to the hobby. I cannot blame the body manufacturers if they do not have orders from those that are supposed to be supplying...

 

Thank you Ron and Victor, if we did not have you two, we would really be struggling.


  • zforce and Terry like this

Mill Conroy
 

AKA : TWO LAP CONROY, Anointed Trigger Monkey by Mike Swiss

 

Deal me life's toughest cards, without chance for hope nor fame, just let me play this one last hand, and I'll win this whole damn game.

Second Most Interesting Man in the World.


#46 Samiam

Samiam

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,660 posts
  • Joined: 18-January 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, NY

Posted 22 March 2015 - 10:58 PM

Not righteous, just not a hypocrite.


Sam Levitch
 
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
     Robert Mueller, special counsel (2013)

#47 9lives

9lives

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 111 posts
  • Joined: 18-July 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Beach, CA

Posted 22 March 2015 - 11:35 PM

Bryan,

 

I'll be there to race you "side by side"... "Lexan door to Lexan door"... was that a blast last race or what?!!! Two feet apart for at least two heats... six minutes!!!


John Hegedus

#48 Half Fast

Half Fast

    Keeper Of Odd Knowledge

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,946 posts
  • Joined: 02-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NYC, Long Island

Posted 22 March 2015 - 11:39 PM

Why not make the Parma Ti22 bodies legal?

 

Especially since Parma sponsors the SCRRA's major race: the "Parma Challenge Cup".

 

Just askin'...


Bill Botjer

Faster then, wiser now.

The most dangerous form of ignorance is not knowing that you don't know anything!

 

 

 
 

#49 Bryan Warmack

Bryan Warmack

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,567 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 March 2015 - 11:48 PM

The O/S 415L and the TSR-24 are popular. What other O/S part numbers are allowed?

 

Here are a couple of other O/S Ti22 part numbers.

 

408

408L

 

The O/S 415 is also a legal body. Just like the 415L but without the sharp chisel nose.



#50 JimF

JimF

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,006 posts
  • Joined: 20-June 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 March 2015 - 11:49 PM

I'm awake... but as usual, lost!

 

Please explain, Jim.

 

Explain?... sure.

 

The ever-popular TSR 024 has according to the previous posters, been unavailable at BPR for some time. Of course, it's possible that they (BPR) just didn't order any. It's also possible that they have ordered, and the supply from your end is not keeping up.

 

Either way, the most desirable body has not been available until (today...???)

 

So... no offense but pay attention to the demand and at least advise your customers one way or the other... that's a basic premise of business.


Jim Fowler





Electric Dreams Online Shop