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Identify this 1/32 car?


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#1 One_Track_Mind

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 06:48 AM

Hello All,
 
Recently acquired this little gem. Come from around the NJ area, to the best of my knowledge.
 
Really curious if anyone would recognize the builder?
 
Thanks for your help!
 
e11a9d423d2b49a72af82f93158807ea.jpg

0c3e0681594616d897435ae7930d727a.jpg

b251ef01533afde6475e2e0eac8bc37c.jpg

LCP #42 or 72?

This interior was also included, very nicely detailed. Could it be an original Noose?!
 
fc24fb01084c9308ad1e498ae4dbf9be.jpg
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#2 tonyp

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 09:35 AM

Could be a car that was run in the NAMRA series judging by the size of the tires.
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#3 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 11:11 AM

Hard to read the engraving... LCP #2? likely a name...
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#4 dc-65x

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 11:42 AM

What a beauty!

Are you going to "see it move" again?

I wonder what motor fits it... a C-can???
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#5 zipper

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 11:54 AM

Mura Mini-Brute? (or Short Magnum).


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#6 One_Track_Mind

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Posted 08 March 2015 - 08:26 PM

61cd18e310447aff096fa819a23288a6.jpg

Hi Rick,

 

Yes, I do want to see it move!

 

Right now, this peanut motor built by John Havlicek is the only one to fit in that small motor box.
Tried a modern C-can Koford and it's still too big.

Short of me digging into the vintage box for an old C-can, there of the same size? Correct?

TonyP, both axles are 3/32" with a brass tube sleeve for the 1/8" wheels. Does this sound right for rules in that series?

What type of body was used? And about what year of timeframe could this chassis have been built?

Period Korrect restoration? Or just build it up?!

 

What you guys think?


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#7 dc-65x

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Posted 08 March 2015 - 09:11 PM

Boy, I'd be interested to hear what others think but to me it looks very "pre-1975" like 1973 or so??

 

I wonder if it took a shortened C-can? It sure didn't take a Peanut motor if it's pre-1975.

 

Here's a Mura Short Magnum A-can vs Mura C-can comparo:

 

1%20011.jpg

 

You should be able to tell if it fits a 16D by seeing how a can fits in the motor bracket. Does it sit flush with the bottom of the chassis or hang down below it?

 

 

Period Korrect Restoration? Or just build it up?!
What you guys think?

 

I'm a vintage nut so to me it's Korrect or it's not worth the effort... but like I admit, I'm a vintage nut. :laugh2:


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#8 One_Track_Mind

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Posted 08 March 2015 - 10:13 PM

abd5c625c14fb3b0146912c0a11572b1.jpg

Hi Rick,

 

'Short' of having a vintage can, my guess is your correct, in that it takes a Mura-A shorty.

Notice the length of can compared to the notch where the endbell (Hi, Bob) screw is in the motor. Plus, the spring posts are into the rear tire.

Will search here better for the proper can, but my doubts are that I will find one.

Body and motor hunt is on!

Thank you.


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#9 Hworth08

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 10:04 AM

The working drop arm suggest arm the frame is probably '73 or older.

 

Maybe the frame was fitted with a 13D motor?


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#10 dc-65x

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 10:32 AM

Hi Brian,

 

Can I suggest you use an empty can with bearing to determine the Korrect motor height. That way an endbell isn't interfering with the fit into the frame.

 

Which can sits flush with the bottom of the chassis with the bearing lined up in the motor bracket, a 16D or a C-can?


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#11 tonyp

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 10:44 AM

TonyP, both axles are 3/32" with a brass tube sleeve for the 1/8" wheels. Does this sound right for rules in that series?"

 
When we moved over to 3/32" axles it was quite awhile before the metal gears and rims came through drilled for 3/32". Brass adapters were used for a long time.


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#12 One_Track_Mind

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 03:22 PM

969cb03d740a4e5193262938befe5d84.jpg

ebdb3fa4bef93d42fc037352ac12a656.jpg

Hi Rick,
Is this what you asking for me to do??
The Mura 2-hole can fits the absolute best, in compared to the 16D stripped down. The 16D is just too wide to even get up close before hitting the rear axle tube.
It's going to sit just a smidgen higher then the bottom of the main rails.
But, then again once the E/B ( hi Bob) is put back on then the motor is too long!

I measured this can length at .962 is that still longer then Magnum short one you shown earlier?

Thanks! in helping me figure this one out! 8-)
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#13 dc-65x

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 03:47 PM

If the 16D can fits flush with the bottom of the frame rails then perhaps it did use a Mura 16D Short Magnum that was cut for can drive.

 

Here's an early article on modifying a 16D for can drive. They don't take it as far as I think you'd have to for this 1/32 application however:

 

MRJ V1N8 p4.jpg

 

MRJ V1N8 p5.jpg

 

Basically if you modify the short 16D pretty much like a Mura 2-hole C-can it should fit as good as the C-can did....hopefully!

 

The length of the Mura Short Magnum can is:  .895"

 

Having said all that, I wonder.....

 

The Mura 2-hole C-can motor was definitely around when this car was made. It's also a ton easier to find the parts for one. The motor bracket could even be lowered a bit for a C-can.......decisions.....decisions!


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#14 One_Track_Mind

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 04:04 PM

Great article! Thanks for sharing.

Now?! Where did I put those doggone vintage D-Cans!? 8-)

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#15 Hermit #1

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 07:13 AM

Back in pre-1973, I used to drastically shorten Champion C-cans and magnets to get a flatter angle.  Stuffed with a rewind on a modified Grp.12 blank (spacers shortened, stack length stock), Mitch Keil at Camen used to complain there was almost no room left for comm tab brazing.  I wound several arms, ranging from 26 gage to 28 gage, and all were rockets!  The 26 gage wire motor was shockingly just about as fast as my best Grp. 7 motors - I should have switched my 1/24 racers over to that type setup. 

At the time I had access to what would turn out to be the best tool for shortening the length of common ceramic magnets of the day:  a wet belt sander equipped with a fine grit silicone carbide belt..  That thing would literally eat material from the ceramic, but the magnets never got even warm to the touch.  The running water also did a good job flushing off the magnet scarf - you had little cleanup after the work.

First outing was on the 220' Engleman at Checkered Flag in St. Louis - their 150' Trick Track was busy.  You should have seen that thing fly!  I was amazed at what I'd stumbled on:  a light setup that easily fit shallow anglewinder 1/32 chassis.  What future motor trends would bring (micro cans, strap motors, tiny cobalt magnets, etc.), I couldn't know.  But that concept proved to be a taste of tomorrow - if I'd only had the foresight to grasp it.

Back on topic:  it should be fairly simple to shorten that Mura 2-hole C-man.  Trim the spacer on a Grp. 12 arm until it just clears the wire - that will establish the minimum length of the can.  Modern ceramics can be obtained at about .450 (?) long - you can use those as is.  Should result in an easy fit into your chassis, and done right, have gobs of power.

Cheers and good luck on your project!

 


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#16 One_Track_Mind

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 08:08 AM

WOW! Great story... Thanks for sharing the tips...

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#17 dc-65x

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 10:53 AM

Back on topic:  it should be fairly simple to shorten that Mura 2-hole C-man.  Trim the spacer on a Grp. 12 arm until it just clears the wire - that will establish the minimum length of the can.  Modern ceramics can be obtained at about .450 (?) long - you can use those as is.  Should result in an easy fit into your chassis, and done right, have gobs of power.

 
This would be quite doable a a fair bit easier than the 16D route. If done with a period can and endbell would make a real little vintage rocket ship. It would still be nice to lower the motor bracket so the C-can sits flush with the bottom rails. The car will look like it was built for it as it very well might have been.


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#18 Hermit #1

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 11:46 AM

<SNIP> It would still be nice to lower the motor bracket so the C-can sits flush with the bottom rails. The car will look like it was built for it as it very well might have been.

 

Just remove the motor bracket entirely - you might gain a little extra room if the bracket is mounted to the inside of the half-rail. Solder the back of motor directly to the half-rail, along with a piano wire brace to the rear axle tube. Nice and flat to the chassis bottom...

Motor brackets are overrated anyway on anglewinders - even can drive. I'd never trust only screws to maintain a good gear mesh in a crash-fest. Hard to beat Sta-Brite solder for strength on a wire/brass frame.  :D


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#19 Mbloes

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 02:47 PM

Plumber is mounted on the frame - not the drop arm. That might date it earlier than later. Also, the front wheels might give a clue as to how old it is.


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#20 tonyp

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 03:22 PM

The plumber mounting kind of went back and forth between the arm and chassis. On this chassis the guide lead is so short mounting the plumber to the arm would really make the rails in front of the axle real short and compromise the front axle brace.


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#21 zipper

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 04:35 PM

The last chassis using this arrangement (on 1/24) I saw was by Lee Gilbert around '71-'72. (probably the first US pro chassis ordered to our country).


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#22 obnoxious001

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 03:55 PM

I would think that is a "72" engraved on the chassis, which does correspond with the time period that type chassis was being built. I was building my own chassis out here on the west coast starting around 1971.


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#23 One_Track_Mind

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 07:09 PM

081a4bd6e27eee1ad4953c77f14f792a.jpg

Using my 'geezer goggles' as a magnifier, I was able to get a good crisp (IMO) photo of the engraving.
Could very well be the 72 as I have seen people write 7's very similar, or is it just a 4? :-)

Appears now you can make out a slight # sign.

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#24 HarV Wallbanger III

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 09:13 PM

Chassis #42 Is my guess...?


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#25 havlicek

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 09:26 AM

All the 1/32 anglewinder scratchbuilts are... to me anyway... mighty cool and underappreciated. You just don't see many of them around, whether D, C, or "Peanut" driven. All that fabrication and engineering in a significantly smaller space, and the resulting rocket ships is just a marvel.  

 

I'm most of the way through another 13UO-sized (ceramic) Peanut (I call mine "Walnuts" :)  ) right now, but not many seem interested in the segment. Maybe it's simply because the builds are more difficult?  

 

Anyway, very cool chassis Brian, and it deserves an equally cool body, whatever they might have been back then!

 

-john


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#26 Lenny Broke

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 04:28 AM

Hi,

The chassis looks like a English F32 class type of chassis. They raced them with Group 20 arms in a Mura C-can. It was meant to be a cheap entry class. The front wheels are from England.

We raced a similar looking chassis here that we imported from the UK back in the '80s. It might pay to post over on SlotForum .. There's probably someone over ther that could ID it for you.

Regard,

Alan
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#27 TSR

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 12:32 PM

Alan,

I beg to differ. The wheels are American-made Riggen, front and rear. They are called "SL-18A" in their catalog. I am holding a NOS box of them as we speak. They were specially made for 1/32 scale cars. The chassis uses Parma 1/32 scale drop arm and side pans. This is not a British chassis but one likely made for MESAC racing in California. It dates from 1972 because of its design style and parts availability. It likely had a Mura C-can motor, likely with a G20 arm, standard fare at MESAC in the day. It is patterned closely after a Gilbert chassis, but if it was it would either not be engraved at all or signed. If I had to guess, I would say, Larry Halter built it as he was close to Gilbert and was a fine builder. Could also be a John Luthi.

As far as making it run, a modern motor or removing the motor bracket would be desecration, but hey, the owner has the last word. A suitable body would be a Dynamic McLaren M8A, Ferrari 612, or Porsche 907, but they are not that easy to find... they are some of the few PERIOD bodies wide enough to fit this chassis. Check Electric Dreams as they carry reproductions of the period 1/32 scale bodies from Lancer, MAC and a couple Dynamics.

Refer to articles in 1972 and 1973 issues of MC&S and Car Model magazine for references on what the cars looked like.
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#28 SlotStox#53

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 04:15 PM

Here's an SCD F32 chassis for comparison :good: awaiting some TLC .

 

Originally these and the Bogg chassis had Group 20 Mura B cans mounted in them. (or at least that's what my dads one had in it from years ago)

 

Definitely different as PdL says :) Love the look of the chassis you found & good luck getting it rolling again.

 

 

F32a.jpg

 

F32b.jpg

 

F32c.jpg


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#29 Bill from NH

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 04:22 PM

If you go to Slotforum, you'll finds all sorts of different chassis being used in F32. Some of them use Grp. 20 arms in B-cans, others in C-cans.


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#30 Dennis David

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 04:41 PM

This last chassis looks to my untrained eye to be of a simpler design that the mystery chassis.


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#31 TSR

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 06:23 PM

The British "F32" formula had a maximum price for the chassis, which explains how crude they were, because they had to be built as cheaply as possible for the builders not to lose money on them. The Team Bog chassis are especially crude, but they did the job.
Compared to the SCD and Team Bog and virtually any other F32 chassis I have seen, the not-so mysterious chassis that opened this thread is a thing of beauty, it is extremely well made and would likely be more effective.


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#32 Lenny Broke

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 07:10 PM

Hi Phillipe.

No worries I'm happy to be proved otherwise if the facts are correct. You've got all the resources there, I'm jut relying on a fading memory. I must admit when typing I thought the build quality was better than I remember but thought I'd just throw it out there as

a possible option.

I think we got our chassis' from 101 products and they came with delrin wheels that look very similar to those pictured. I thought  I still had one of the drop arm type chassis but on looking in my old bits box, I can only find the later flexi board type with an integral can set up. We ran these with parma 16D motors as the C cans were a bit much on our smaller back yard tracks.

 

Anyway nice to see some of the old 1/32 scale stuff still around

Alan


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#33 Dennis David

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Posted 21 July 2015 - 12:34 AM

I think we should always be open to educated guesses in helping to solve mysteries. I learned something more about F32 :-)

Dennis David
    
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#34 zipper

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Posted 21 July 2015 - 04:12 AM

On 1/24 around ´71-'72 we all built our cars with plumber hinge on the drop arm. One of our guys did order his chassis from Lee Gilbert and it still had the plumber on the main rails. We were a little confused. Then came PdL with his diamond...


Pekka Sippola

#35 John Secchi

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Posted 21 July 2015 - 09:13 AM

The F32 was introduced by ECRA in 1971 [i think] as a novice class, team Bog was the first to offer a chassis shortly followed by SCD. They changed little in design over the years, both the "B" and "C" Gp20 motors were used and later in the 70's other manufacturers like H&B and Chuck Palmer [an American] offered chassis. By the early 80's the chassis had evolved a bit and became more flexible but were still made to a price so pulling them apart and rebuilding was the order of the day! It all came to and end in 1982 when ECRA became BSCRA and the 1/32 Gp12 saloon [sedan] took over as the novice class.

A guy on UK Ebay is selling a load 1/32 cars from this period, some six wheeled Tyrrell's and other F1's, some F32's which include Team Bog and a Chuck Palmer and other interesting stuff , worth a look.

[oneofwos] 


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#36 endbelldrive

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 04:50 AM

I've seen a few Mura C cans from back in the day cut back just past the pin tab holes.  I had done it to a Mura A can during the short lived 1/24 anglewinder period and subsequently squeezed it into a 1/32 anglewinder as it was a 26 single arm.  JimF (Jim Fowler) might know a bit more because I think he was doing a little 1/32 scale racing in SoCal back then. :scratch_one-s_head:


Bob Suzuki

#37 endbelldrive

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 04:55 AM

Hey, I just remembered that Slotblog member Steve Deiters did a 1/32 scale racing column with lots of pictures back in the day.  He might know. :good:


Bob Suzuki





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