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Another version of the "Hong Kong" Mabuchi


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#1 havlicek

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 11:40 AM

Having done some of these recently for someone in England, I thought they deserved a build article. This version with the black endbell is different from the white endbell version, but similar in many ways as well.

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Aside from the color of the endbell, this version also has the larger bushing/bearing strap, similar to that on the Champion FT16D endbell. It also has oval can cut-outs. The can dimensions are interchangeable with the "regular" Japanese can where it matters and magnets and endbells are interchangeable. One other external difference is that this version comes with a pinion pressed on to the splined shaft, making me believe this *might* have been intended for slot cars, even though it's obviously of later production. A spin-up on the power supply reveals that this version has a wind much more suited for that application as well, with impressive (relatively) RPMs and torque. The white endbell version barely turns at 6v and is still pretty dead even at 12v.  Both motors' endbells are molded out of a material that's far far more durable and heat-resistant than the Japanese Mabuchis or the Champion FT16Ds.

When you open the motor, there are further differences between this and the white endbell version. First off, the basic pieces are the same between both Hong Kong Mabuchis. The magnets on both versions are a solid step up from the Mabuchis, and work well with winds up to at least a #28. The commutators on both are (at least visually) the same as you'd find in a modern 16D like the Parmas and other Chinese motors, having induction-welded comm tab connections. These too are good for at least a #28, but I've had spotty success welding this type comm, so I would limit them to winds that can be silver-soldered.

If you look at the inside of the endbell and the can, this version comes with ball bearings on both ends as opposed to the sintered metal bushings on the white version. While these "look" like the type of bearings found on some of the Japanese Mabuchis, they don't have that "maracas" sound those do, seeming smoother and more solid. That *could* however be the result of the stronger endbell and slightly thicker can metal. In any case, the bearings are a nice touch, even if they aren't nearly up to modern standards.

Back on the arm for a second, aside from the splined shaft, this arm has the familiar 70t/30 wind, as opposed to a bazillion turns of angel hair on the white endbell version.

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Time to start building. Taking the arm apart doesn't present any unusual obstacles. The thicker magnet wire is easier to unwind without it breaking here, although this version has some sort of lacquer/sealer on it, so you still have to be a little careful. The stack itself has the familiar "fiber end insulators" which will get tossed... I hate the things, and early rewinders often got rid of them too, so the feeling was sometimes mutual. :)  

One small detail that's a welcome surprise on both versions of these motors is that the winding leg is a bit thinner on these lams. The original Mabuchi lams leg thickness was around .078", and on these newer ones, that's down a bit to .061" or so. That .017" may not sound like much to folks who don't wind these things, but it's a significant enough change to make winding these noticeably easier, even with powder coating.

IMG_0487_zps36rkocd0.jpg

Speaking of powder coating, here's the arm ready for the powder coat. I pushed the stack a wee bit to put all the shaft "extra" on the drive end, because there isn't much extra on these in the first place. The shafts are of course "soft steel"... no drill blanks... duh... but they have been uniformly straight and round as far as I've seen so far after doing maybe twenty or so, and that's far more important. Before powder coating, I cleaned the outside of the stack and lightly polished the shaft. I also removed the extra phenolic from the bottom of the com so I could cut com and tail spacers out of 2mm ID tubing. That will give me maximum room for winding at the top and bottom of the stack. Because the comm will get tied and epoxied, it won't be at all weakened by doing this, and I believe that extra phenolic at the bottom of the comm is probably more about making building the stacks easy since no spacer is needed on the stock arm. After removing the fiber end-insulators, you're left with a very-"normal" .460" long stack.

IMG_0488_zpsqoizobsa.jpg
 
... more to come.
 
-john
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#2 SlotStox#53

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 01:17 PM

Watching with much interest. :good:

Amazing the similarities and differences between the two motors. Arm looks sweet, all ready for coating and winding. :)

#3 havlicek

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 03:18 PM

Hi Paul,
 
Thanks for looking in.  

These are excellent motors for "vintage-type" projects. These ones with the 70t/30 wind and somewhat better magnets could have been "factory rewinds" back in the day, and with maybe some magnet shims, epoxy, and balancing, race winners... so they *could* just be dropped into a neat-o old car as-is.  

Of course, "good enough" is never good enough when it comes to these things, so more work is necessary. :) There are a couple of things that can be done to the can to make it resemble a Japanese FT16D a little more closely, so while the arm epoxy was curing, I took care of some of that.  

More to follow.
 
-john
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#4 havlicek

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 05:09 PM

OK... so here's the final parts of the build.

The arm got a 55t/29 wind. That's a solid-running wind that's also not too much for the magnets... plenty of get-up-and-go.

IMG_0489_zps3aj7k3xi.jpg

Before final assembly, I faced the tail spacer and trued the comm end. Then I shimmed the magnets a bit (.004" per side) to get the hole down to a bit over .530". With the arm finishing at .509", that should be about right.

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You can also see that I squared-off the can cutouts and painted the can orange so it looks more "Japanese". The magnet stops at the rear of the can look different from the Japanese versions, so I just filled those altogether. I also sanded-down the ridges around the edges of the can some so it's a little more "crisp" looking. It's not a dead-ringer, but I think it's a good enough approximation look-wise. I could have spent some more time getting the square cut-outs neater... but I let them be.  :)

The big question is... how does it sound? The motor winds like nobody's business and I have no doubt it will be a handful to drive in a period chassis, just the way I like them.  :)  The motor draws about an amp or just under at 6VDC, staying cool and that should settle down even further with a but of break-in... and yes... I spun it up briefly all the way to 12v with no load (*as you shouldn't do   :D ) .  Just a great sounding motor.

Of course, the stock springs are not up to such a wind. The motor sounds OK at low revs, but doesn't get all the way up there like it should. I wound a set of .014" springs and then it did what it should. Current draw only went slightly up, but revs climbed solidly all the way up to 12v, never seeming to flatten out. Torque seemed noticeably improved as well as natural braking.  

 

-john

PS: I welded the comm on this one and that went fine... whew!

 


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#5 Gator Bob

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 07:41 PM

Very nice, John!

 

It has a very Classic look to it.   :rolleyes:

 

Did you keep it as a small brush motor?


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#6 havlicek

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 08:31 PM

Hi Bob and thanks,
 

Did you keep it as a small brush motor?

 
Yes. With this comm (small diameter), there would be way too much overlap if I had gone to 36D-sized ("modern") brushes.
 
-john


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#7 SlotStox#53

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 11:26 PM

"Will be a handful to drive in a period chassis." Sounds utterly perfect! :D

Nothing like a bit of power slide out of the corners.  :good:

Came out great, John, and added to all the other motors I've seen you do has given plenty of inspiration.  :)

The 26D-sized arm in 16D sized motor you did is a monster :D !!! Now planning a chassis to try to do it justice.



#8 Jairus

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 12:08 AM

Sweet little motor!

 

And I like the red can a lot.


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#9 havlicek

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 07:01 AM

Thanks, Jairus!  

 

I like white, red, orange, and yellow for these motors because of the vintage look, but the lighter colors don't seem to cure as hard. Red and orange seem to work fine.

 

-john


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