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Fifth annual appeal


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#1 Rick

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 08:31 PM

#1. How about IRRA looks at the rule about no tape on the bottom of the chassis again this year? I am late in my annual request, but better late than never. 
 
#2. New for this year to get rid of the seal on PD motors to save me the refurb cost to freshen up the motor?
 
TIA...
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#2 Samiam

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 09:09 PM

If I may add Rick?

 

#3 Tier 2- All podium cars in all mains get post race tech. Just a quick width and weight check.

 

May prevent errant chunks of lead launching cars off the bank and into the showcase. :dash2:


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#3 Cap Henry

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 09:11 PM

I don't see how that would prevent a loose chunk of lead from coming loose LOL just would get the user DQ'ed at the end if under weight

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#4 Samiam

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 09:20 PM

It may inspire a little effort into making sure your weights don't come loose so this won't happen. I found weights on the track with tape used to hold them on. :wacko2:  If you can get bumped from tech for being  a1/2g light then being the 5g shy that the weight I found weighed should be 10X more important. 


Sam Levitch
 
When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything is a nail.
Support your local raceway, or you won't have one.
Slot cars are quad-pods.
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#5 JohnnySlotcar

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 09:48 PM

Truism fer sure! Just like a center hinge solder joint coming loose. IMHO


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#6 Bill from NH

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 09:57 PM

Years ago when I ran pieces cut from roofing lead on wing cars, we stuck it on the chassis with rubber cement. We never had problems loosing lead weight. Some of my old chassis still have lead that was stuck on them 40 odd years ago. :)


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You have to be odd to be #1. :laugh2: 


#7 Half Fast

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 09:57 PM

Sam-

 

The podium cars did get teched after the race.

 

Cheers


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#8 Samiam

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 10:24 PM

But not the car that was shedding lead like a gang banger with an AK-47.


Sam Levitch
 
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#9 Danny Zona

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 10:28 PM

Solder the weight on. It won't fall off.
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#10 Samiam

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 10:38 PM

Ironically, the car that got launched had it's weights soldered in. They didn't fall out. Even when launched off the bank and into Doug's showcase.


Sam Levitch
 
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#11 Rick

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 11:15 PM

MAYDAY MAYDAY!! WAY OFF TOPIC!

 

The tape on the bottom is for limiting pan movement and a fine tune item, will not harm track, will not cause any marshal wounds.etc. Has nothing to do with lead weight or the attachment of such. I have been asking for this for five years and do every year...


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#12 Samiam

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 11:30 PM

Sorry, Rick.

 

Didn't mean to jack your thread.

 

Maybe they didn't use tape in 1969? :crazy:

 

I would like to see a 'Built PD' class as I have not sold any of mine. Anglewinder Coupes?, .790" tires. 


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#13 NY Nick

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 06:06 AM

I like getting rid of the seals.

 

Good luck, Rick. I think this is like taking a leak in to the wind.


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#14 Noose

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 08:44 AM

But not the car that was shedding lead like a gang banger with an AK-47.

 

As a matter of fact, Sam, I did tech it and it was still 2 grams over the minimum weight. 


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#15 Noose

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 08:45 AM

And the podium cars were all post-race teched.


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#16 SlowBeas

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 09:45 AM

What is the advantage of taping under the chassis vs on top? We use tape currently on top of the chassis, and I can't believe it would make any significant weight difference.

 

Rick, without my referencing five years of your requests and subsequent responses, why do you feel it's necessary to be able to tape underneath specifically?

 

jb


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#17 Rick

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 02:36 PM

Just much easier, nothing in the way to go over or around, etc. Might like it for the gutters and not the center lanes or vice versa, quick and easy for the racer...
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#18 Rick

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 07:40 PM

I usually have my emphatic "NO" by now. I guess no reply also means NO!...
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#19 MSwiss

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 07:58 PM

Actually there is a response, but everything isn't immediate when you have five guys who have to sign off on exact wording, etc.

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#20 Cheater

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 08:49 AM

Rick,

 

See this THREAD, post #68, for the response to your questions.


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#21 Half Fast

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 02:05 PM

I will mark my 2016 calendar for the sixth annual appeal.  :shok:

 

Cheers,


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#22 redbackspyder

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 02:34 PM

Way to go, Rick!


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#23 MSwiss

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 03:06 PM

For what?

Mike Swiss
 
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#24 Uncle Fred

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 04:15 PM

Along with no seals I think we should adopt a no otter policy as well.


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#25 Tex

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 04:35 PM

Along with no seals I think we should adopt a no otter policy as well.

 

Ba-da-boomp! Tsssh!


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#26 The Number of

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 04:38 PM

Along with no seals I think we should adopt a no otter policy as well.


How about no beavers, too?


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#27 Uncle Fred

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 04:41 PM

A little beaver never hurt anyone...


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#28 John Streisguth

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 06:06 PM

Only when they bite your nipple off....


"Whatever..."

#29 Uncle Fred

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 06:14 PM

John, it will take a considerable commitment on your part, but there are therapists that can help you. They specialize in "Beavernipaphobia"


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#30 Uncle Fred

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 06:27 PM

That's it! I've had enough! I'm starting my own organization... the IRR... Eh?
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#31 Arne Saknussem

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 08:09 PM

Miscellaneous items.

 

Question 1:  Of ALL the guys who used to love to play with motors, none have come back to race Retro?

Question 2:  Of ALL the guys who presently run Retro, none want to try playing around with motors?

 

There must be a boatload of orphaned Puppy Dogs out there that could easily be put to use racing in a tinkerer's PD class if only the already-proven-damned-near-useless "seal" was consigned to the dust bin.

 

Question 3:  Was Can-Am Plus created so guys could play with pillow blocks?  Or was it for not-very-scale bodies?


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#32 Rick

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 11:37 PM

Pete, well said. The seal is and has been a joke for a long long time. But Rocky said it best..........God rest his soul.


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#33 John Streisguth

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 05:38 AM

If there are so many guys who want to play with motors out there, why isn't there a bigger push for RetroPro? 
 
RETRO now has a class where PD motor seals are optional, so it will be interesting to see if all the "motor builders" flock to that class. 

That should answer quaestions 1 and 2 for you, Pete.
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#34 Duffy

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 05:59 AM

I think the question might be looking through the wrong end of the telescope. Sure, there're motor builders in Retro, some builders having migrated over, some Retro'ers lusting for winding and comming and such. The thing is, a LOT of guys are happy with status quo, or at least with an ongoing discussion that arrives at a consensus.
 
It ain't an ideal system to have laws or rules swung by one or two fellows' preferences; at best, laws protect the individual while benefiting the larger group. Right? We don't all don blankets and shout from street corners because this or that one guy knows what's best. Usually it's the worst that happens when that guy starts swinging the group by the tail.
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#35 Noose

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 06:37 AM

Question 3: Was Can-Am Plus created so guys could play with pillow blocks? Or was it for not-very-scale bodies?

 
Neither. It was created off a foundation of "what if" the anglewinder never appeared and we maintained inline cars with the other progression that took place. All of this was said when the class was announced.

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"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
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#36 Half Fast

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 08:42 AM

If I never see the inside of a slot car motor again it will be too soon!!
 
Cheers,

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#37 Arne Saknussem

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 09:27 AM

Neither. It was created off a foundation of "what if" the anglewinder never appeared and we maintained inline cars with the other progression that took place. All of this was said when the class was announced.

 
The original question was phrased for debate purposes.  After all, the progressions of which you speak included pillow block rear axle configurations and higher downforce bodies.

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#38 Arne Saknussem

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 09:38 AM

I think the question might be looking through the wrong end of the telescope. Sure, there're motor builders in Retro, some builders having migrated over, some Retro'ers lusting for winding and comming and such. The thing is, a LOT of guys are happy with status quo, or at least with an ongoing discussion that arrives at a consensus.
 
It ain't an ideal system to have laws or rules swung by one or two fellows' preferences; at best, laws protect the individual while benefiting the larger group. Right? We don't all don blankets and shout from street corners because this or that one guy knows what's best. Usually it's the worst that happens when that guy starts swinging the group by the tail.

 

I agree completely with your statements regarding the dangers of a dictatorship.  IRRA is fortunate to have an oligarchy of benevolent and open-minded fellows.  I have my telescope in proper operating position, I assure you.

 

I am not advocating for motor construction from scratch,  Rather, I propose that an already discredited (many times over many years) procedure be done away with for a specific motor that many of us own in bulk.


Pete Varlan

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#39 Arne Saknussem

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 09:40 AM

If I never see the inside of a slot car motor again it will be too soon!!
 
Cheers,

 

Duly noted and you are probably in good company.


Pete Varlan

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#40 Arne Saknussem

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 10:00 AM

If there are so many guys who want to play with motors out there, why isn't there a bigger push for RetroPro? 
 
RETRO now has a class where PD motor seals are optional, so it will be interesting to see if all the "motor builders" flock to that class. 

That should answer quaestions 1 and 2 for you, Pete.

 

Excellent question, John.  I have no answer for it.  Personally, been there before there was a class for it, found the x12 arm was not a viable choice for a brass and wire chassis with a scale body (at least anything I was capable of building).  I did find out that the motor made a semi-competitive wing car.

 

Given the parties involved, the RETRO situation smacks of some kind of shenanigans.  I have no idea what, but past experience says it's something more than it seems.


Pete Varlan

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#41 Arne Saknussem

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 10:09 AM

In general, all I'm saying is that refurbing your own motor should be allowed.

 

Is that opening a can of worms? I respectfully submit that the can was opened and the worms escaped a long time ago.


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#42 Pappy

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 10:36 AM

My experience has been, if something is working leave it alone.

 

I remember a politician once saying "We live in the greatest nation in the world, I hope you all will join me as we change it". Look what happened.


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#43 Noose

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 10:38 AM

Pete, run RetroPro then as John said earlier. You are only limited to a Big Dog or X12 arm. 

 

Otherwise no working on motors in IRRA®.


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#44 Cheater

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 10:45 AM

In general, all I'm saying is that refurbing your own motor should be allowed.


For what overwhelming reason "should" refurbing your own motor be allowed in IRRA® racing, Pete? As you know, "no working on motors" was a founding principle.

Second question...

If IRRA® racing continues to experience great turn-outs and an insane "tightness" of competition as tabulated HERE and demonstrated HERE, why should anything in the rules be changed? 
 


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#45 tonyp

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 10:53 AM

If you can work on motors in Retro, I say lets change flexi rules so I build my own chassis. LOL...


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"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#46 Duffy

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 11:19 AM

Seems to me that the "Worms escaped" premise, while certainly true as far as that goes, is not a good reason for change.

Sure, guys have got past the seal, and sure, cheats have appeared at races. So, "Well, since we can't keep those couple-five guys from doing it their way, we might as well let everybody have the same chance - "

 

Hm. I'm wondering how well it's worked for some nations in recent events, where a small force has so disrupted the system that the peacekeeping entities just laid down their arms and walked off.

It's an extreme example, but the point is that a rule of law exists to serve a majority within certain agreed-upon limits despite the occasional transgression. You draw the line, most live comfortably within it; sure, there'll still be blood spilled, but ideally less blood.


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#47 Samiam

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 11:48 AM

I have proposed this 'Motor Builder' class before:  

 

Built PDs in the IRRA Anglewinder car. Allow .790"s. We can run it after Jail Door at Premier events. Just leave your Sunday mornings open and bring sleeping bags. :)   


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#48 Noose

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 12:06 PM

Sam, run Retro Pro.

 

It's not changing. 


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Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#49 Gator Bob

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 12:19 PM

If I never see the inside of a slot car motor again it will be too soon!!
 
Cheers,

 

 How Bizarre   :wacko2:

 

Maybe you could put tape over your holes.

 

The top one anyway. Better check with the officials on the bottom one. 


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#50 Half Fast

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 12:39 PM

Bob, you should put tape over the hole beneath your nose! :shok:

 

Cheers


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