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John Clow's La Cucaracha refurb


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#51 Mbloes

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 01:32 PM

I've always had good luck with red Loctite.

 

Ha sorry! I thought we were still on "bearings" and didn't know we had moved on to "body"!


Mike Bloes




#52 Pablo

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 01:37 PM

:laugh2: I was going to try it, now you spoiled my fun.  :crazy:


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#53 Gator Bob

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 01:47 PM

Bob, I found a pair of genuine tapered hole Cox hubs in my vintage box of horrors.  :dance3:

 

Tonight: donuts on proper 1/2" wide hubs, (body) glue experiments, and foam piece fitting. 

 

Lucky find.  :good:

 

Did you get a hold of that kind of foam?

 

The only 'Cuc' roller kit I have... has the gray tires with 5-40 hubs. Don't know if any came like that.


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#54 Pablo

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 03:12 PM

I actually found two pair of them. Professor Motor had the acorn nuts, Electric Dreams had the axle, and Hobbylinc had the styrene rods.

 

Don't know if the foam I sourced is "right" but it looks like it should work fine.


Paul Wolcott

#55 Pablo

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 10:28 PM

Hope these are the right hubs - .507" width, tapered axle hole.

 

Found a pair of tan donuts and pre-cut them to about 1.2" OD and .67" width before gluing:

 

IMG_4309.JPG


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#56 Pablo

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 09:14 AM

Just thought I'd throw this in, John's new Chihuahua, Rudy:

 

Rudy Clow.JPG

 

Floor polish experiment. TSR says use "Future" to shine old Cuc bodies. I had "Mop & Glo" so I used that.

Right side wheel well with, left side without, looks like a huge improvement to me:

 

IMG_4321.JPG

 

As you can see, the decals were a big disappointment. They scratch if you touch them. John can replace them with something better at a later date.

 

Glue experiment: It has been said the only glue that will work on polypropylene is contact cement, so I placed dollops of five different types on the inside edge of the body under the left front fin. Left to right:

 

1. 3M #80 Rubber & Vinyl Spray Adhesive (contact cement)

2. Loctite Vinyl, Fabric, & Plastic Flexible Adhesive

3. Super Glue (the original)

4. Permatex Clear RTV Silicone Adhesive Sealant

5. JB Weld 2 part Plastic Bonder

 

IMG_4317.JPG

 

Good:

- 3M (excellent adhesion and flex)

- Super Glue (excellent adhesion, but rigid)

 

Not good:

- Loctite Vinyl, Fabric, & Plastic Flexible Adhesive

- Permatex Clear RTV Silicone Adhesive Sealant

- JB Weld two-part Plastic Bonder

 

Unless someone has a better idea, I plan to use 3M for the rollbar.


Paul Wolcott

#57 Pablo

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 10:07 AM

Mop & Glo; I simply spread it on with a Q-Tip.

 

Not bad looking for a 45-year old body:

 

IMG_4355.JPG


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#58 Jairus

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 10:11 AM

Looks good, Paul! :good:


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#59 Lone Wolf

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 11:02 AM

Nice job, Paul.  :victory:
 
Here is what the rear wheels are supposed to look like. Black rubber with not much tire. Wheels are the wider type, almost 5/8" wide.
 
Cox La Cucaracha Super Cuc Vintage 1/24 slot car
 
As far as the foam, I have found some nice replacement foam inside a box that was used to protect the contents. Unfortunately I don't remember what is was exactly. :dash2: I think it was a phone. Sorry I could not be more exact but that's where I found mine.
 
One last thing, to reduce the diameter of holes in metal I use different size metal balls (for different size holes) placed in the hole and lightly tapped with a hammer. It works very well. I use them all the time to reduce oversize holes in Manta Ray body mount holes which are almost always oversized.


Joe Lupo


#60 Pablo

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 11:27 AM

Thanks, Jairus.  :)

 

Thanks, Joe. That's a nice Cuc and the pics will help me.

 

I disagree with those wheels being correct. The correct axle is a tapered with 2-56 threads, and those don't have anything outside of the hub securing the axle. So I don't know about that. 

 

5/8" is too wide for a Cuc - that's why the outside edges of those are shredded from contacting the wheel wells.

 

Looks like those are the exact same stickers I used and they are junk.

 

I've got three different types of foam here, so I should be OK  :D ... I hope.


Paul Wolcott

#61 Lone Wolf

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 01:08 PM

Paul,

The regular Cuc uses tapered wheels, wider on the later cars.
 
The Super Cuc uses wide set screw wheels with black rubber as seen here as well. These are the correct ones.

Joe
 
Vintage Cox La Cucaracha 1/24 Slot Car

Joe Lupo


#62 proptop

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 01:20 PM

I wonder how the rubberized super glue would work?
 
Can't recall the actual name of it, but Loctite makes their version of it... it stays slightly flexible.
Only potential problem might be is that it is black...

 

Edit: Loctite super glue ultra gel control... black... rubberized...

 

I am looking, just out of curiosity to see if they make it in any other colors?


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#63 Mbloes

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 01:52 PM

The regular Cuc uses tapered wheels, wider on the later cars.
 
The Super Cuc uses wide set screw wheels with black rubber as seen here as well. These are the correct ones.

 
I thought there was a book somewhere with all this stuff in it...
Mike Bloes

#64 Bill from NH

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 01:53 PM

IC2000 is one version of it, Tom. We've mounted urethane tires to aluminum rims with it. I haven't seen it, but there is a clear rubberized CA glue, too.

Bill Fernald
 

My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#65 Pablo

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 02:06 PM

OK, Joe, I stand corrected, thanks.  :good:

 

But the wheel clearance issue remains...

 

The body above the rear wheels bulges up and tapers downward at the sides - 15/16" OD wheels that extend beyond that bulge will rub. Thanks to Gator Bob for pointing that out.  :)

 

Maybe when they changed to wider rears they should have changed the body to accommodate them.

The second one you showed looks like the rear width was slightly less than the first, yet the wells were hogged out (especially on the right side). So I know there was some wheel rubbing going on.  :laugh2: That one looks to have original stickers, by the way.

 

I don't want my clean new tan donuts touching the body, so I'm going with 1/2" wheels, tapered axle, and acorn nuts.

 

The motor is stock (except for the can BB) so I don't want or need a lot of traction anyway.

 

IMG_4360.JPG

 

Hi, Tom.  :bye:


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#66 Lone Wolf

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 02:37 PM

Paul, didn't want to come off as a pompous know it all, just trying to help.   :)


Joe Lupo


#67 Pablo

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 03:06 PM

We've known each other a long time, Joe; no way I would ever think that of you.


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#68 proptop

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 03:19 PM

Howdy, guys...  :)

 

I see that someone put a link in my post above... thanks... it's kind of 'spensive though, ain't it...


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#69 Pablo

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 03:40 PM

Yeah, Tom, for $28 I could have gotten John a brand new windshield instead of a jury-rigged water bottle.  :nea:


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#70 proptop

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 04:09 PM

That Cuc is turning out real nice, Pablo... gotta wear shades cuz of the Mop-n-Glo.  :sun_bespectacled:

 

I think I need to look in my fridge to see what kind of R/C tire glue I might have still stashed in there... it's still good yet...? (Thanks, Bil.l)

 

Some of those R/C "tire glues" are semi-pliable so that the rubber tires don't go slinging off the plastic (usually nylon) wheels. And they cost a lot less... IIRC I got a 2 oz. bottle for ten bucks.


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#71 Pablo

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 04:31 PM

Thanks, Tom.  :)

 

Mailwoman just brought some acorn nuts, and an axle. Hello, perfect 2-1/4" center to center footprint width, and goodbye body rub.

 

Hey Bob, how do you like me now?

 

IMG_4376.JPG


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#72 Pablo

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 10:26 PM

Chucked up the Cox tapered axle in the "poor man's lathe" and polished it with 2,000 grit wet/dry sandpaper:

 

IMG_4384.JPG

 

It gave me a thrill to polish a 45-year old part:

 

IMG_4410.JPG

 

Needle bearings polished:

 

IMG_4437.JPG

 

Three foam choices:

 

IMG_4430.JPG

 

That's all for now...


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#73 Pablo

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 10:32 AM

I wasn't happy with the water bottle windshield, so, in the end, it got a simple straight up strip of Lexan:

 

IMG_4440.JPG


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#74 Gator Bob

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 11:37 AM

Mailwoman just brought some acorn nuts, and an axle. Hello, perfect 2-1/4" center to center footprint width, and goodbye body rub.
 
Hey Bob, how do you like me now?

 
Hmmm... let's see... skinny, tan, shaved, slick... and she's a 'Cuc'.  :D

What's not to like about that? :laugh2:


Posted Image
                            Bob Israelite

#75 Pablo

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 09:58 PM

You got that right, Bob.  :) Your foam dimensions were very helpful.

 

The flag is now planted:

 

IMG_4490.JPG

 

I ended up using pieces of the tan donut holes, cut square-ish and secured to the center section with 3M #80. Mine are about .215" height and place the front wheels at a perfect height - slightly above the block:

 

IMG_4467.JPG

 

I don't know about other Cucs, but this one required 30 thou of spacers outboard of each needle bearing to prevent the main spacers from riding on the flanges. This flaw, and several others, are probably why many Cuc owners back in the day were unimpressed with the performance and simply gave up.  :frown:

 

IMG_4455.JPG

 

IMG_4456.JPG

 

.915" OD:

 

IMG_4481.JPG

 

Just didn't have the heart to solidify the bearings yet. I left it stock, no JB Weld, no reinforcement, nothing.

John can track test it and if it needs to be secured, we can do it. It passes the drivetrain test as is with flying colors:

 

IMG_4503.JPG

 

Holy cow, bending styrene rod is easier than I thought:

 

IMG_4518.JPG

 

Now, where did I put that doggone chrome paint? :laugh2:


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#76 Gator Bob

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 10:34 PM

Roller looks super clean!


Posted Image
                            Bob Israelite

#77 Pablo

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 11:05 PM

Here's another classic example of La Cucaracha handling gone bad:

 

IMG_4526.JPG

 

Rear end of body curled up and contacted the chassis, destroying all potential benefits of Iso-Fulcrum design. Easily fixed with a scalpel.  :)

 

An incredibly well-designed car, but textbook inattention to detail slowed them way down. All the right movements in all the right places, but all bound up.  :o


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#78 Bill from NH

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Posted 26 April 2015 - 07:54 AM

Those Tupperware bodies weren't a smart move for several reasons. :laugh2:


Bill Fernald
 

My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#79 Pablo

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 07:22 PM

Done. Track test to follow at a later date:

IMG_4603.JPG


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#80 Pablo

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 01:21 PM

La Cucaracha vintage notes for future reference:

 

Original price: $12.98
Weight: 3 ounces
Overall length: 6 7/16"
Overall width: 2 7/8"
Overall height (top of driver's head): 1 1/8"
Wheelbase: 3 7/8"
Track: (center of tread to center of tread) Front 2 9/16" Rear 2 1/4"
Wheel OD's: Front 7/8" Rear 15/16" (I made John's .915" OD vice .9375")
Rear wheel width: 1/2" (Joe Lupo says Super Cuc's had 5/8" wide rear wheels)
Rear axle: Tapered stainless steel, Cox part # 3356, overall length including threads 2 9/16"
Recommended hand control: 15 ohm

Correct size rubber band: #14 (I have lots if anybody needs 'em :))

 

Sources:

 

still the best:

http://www.vsrnonlin...rts/Cuc_24.html

 

lots of good Slotblog info here:

http://slotblog.net/...4-vintage-cars/

 

the best Slotblog Cuc thread, in my opinion:
http://slotblog.net/...article-in-mct/


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#81 Pablo

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Posted 02 May 2015 - 07:20 PM

Track test results: John said it handles fine, scoots good, no bad habits.

Can't ask a 45 year old antique to do any better than that.

Mission Accomplished :)


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#82 Bud Greene

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Posted 02 May 2015 - 07:37 PM

Looks good to me too I actually knew the guy that owned the car originally. His name was Joe Spinks he introduced me to slot car racing. We used to go to the local short track where he raced a hobby stock car. He lived about 2 miles from where I grew up



#83 Maximo

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 09:15 AM

Pablo,

 

Really nice work!

 

 

 

-max


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#84 Pablo

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 05:25 PM

Thanks David :D

 

John's TrueScale body for play racing is done. Model Master Fluorescent Red acrylic paint looks even brighter in person.

This is the same paint I used on John's Manta Ray TrueScale body.  Why they label it as "red", I've no idea:

 

IMG_5931.JPG


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#85 Pablo

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 02:23 PM

John cooked his stock Cuc motor on the 14 volts at the Peachtree City King track last weekend.

Trying to keep up with my modified Cuc was futile :laugh2:

IMG_9057.JPG

 

Yup, we have several issues on this arm, John :laugh2:

EB is now cracking in 2 different places. Can, mags, and BB are all fine

IMG_9063.JPG

 

As long as I have it here for repairs, I'll install pin tubes so he can mount his TrueScale body, and JB Weld the rear axle needle bearings in place.

 

 


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#86 Bill from NH

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 03:08 PM

Epoxy that arm too, :laugh2:  :laugh2:


Bill Fernald
 

My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#87 Pablo

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 03:20 PM

Bill, would it be correct to say John is one of the sloppiest rewinders in the history of slot cars ? :sarcastic_hand:

You have to admit, doing it while the car is in motion on the track is very impressive :crazy:

IMG_9066.JPG


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#88 Pablo

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 08:36 PM

Pin tube thingies consist of twin .047 keepers soldered to Koford .050 steel pin tubing.

The outboard keepers are JB Welded to the chassis

IMG_9087.JPG

 

Rear axle needle bearings and tinned .047 wire "U" brace are JB Welded to the chassis.

IMG_9076.JPG

 


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#89 Horsepower

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 11:52 PM

Hi Paul! I know I am late to the party, but for the future this stuff worked for me when nothing else would. It's called Loctite epoxy for plastics. It is a two part solution and cost $5.47 at Home Depot.It held a plastic handle to a heavy freezer lid. It's clear but this one says translucent yellow, and comes in one of those two tube epoxy syringes. It was a polyethylene handle too.

EDIT: Just found out JB Weld makes some also and it handles lots of plastics including ABS and PVC.

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  • Plastic epoxy.jpg

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#90 Pablo

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 07:21 AM

Yes, I've been using JB Weld Plastic Bonder for certain things.

But, which part of the car were you suggesting I use it on ?


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#91 Horsepower

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 11:11 PM

Just about any body parts. Those poly bodies were almost impossible to stick parts on such as the roll bar, driver injectors and windshield.


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#92 Pablo

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 11:03 AM

Gary, I pre-tested several glues back in my post #56, and the JB Weld Plastic Bonder was not a winner.

But it does work well on other things. Maybe your Loctite epoxy for plastics would have worked better on this body.

 

My conclusion was, most products did not work well. The 2 exceptions were Super Glue (excellent adhesion but no flexibility) and 3M Rubber and Vinyl Spray Adhesive (excellent adhesion and flexible when dry).

 

Based on that experiment, I used:

-Super Glue on the windshield clips and intake stacks (those parts don't need to flex). Zero failures so far.

-3M on the roll bar (still in perfect shape)

 

The driver, however, is a different story.  He has been ejected from the cockpit several times - this has to stop :laugh2: I forget what I used to secure him, but no matter. I drilled .032 holes up into his neck, through the cockpit, and into a small chunk of 15 thou brass sheet. Then fashioned a piece of .032 brass rod soldered to the chunk. Here is my gizmo:

IMG_9112.JPG

 

IMG_9115.JPG

 

The rod is bonded to the hole in his neck with Super Glue and soldered to the brass gizmo under the body.

There is a layer of silicon between the gizmo and the body, and the driver's torso and cockpit.

Not to secure it, but to add some flex when he lands on his head.

He's not going anywhere now :D

IMG_9124.JPG

 

I learned the pin tube gizmos that allow mounting of bodies other than stock, need to be kept short to not interfere with the plastic thingies that insert into the pans. That way John can mount either the stock body, or a lighter body like the TrueScale shown above.

IMG_9109.JPG

 

The competition stripe stickers we bought on eBay are all scratched up now. I should have coated them with floor wax.

IMG_9094.JPG

 

But I found something better:

IMG_9119.JPG

 

I'll show the results as soon as the wax dries :)

 

 


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Paul Wolcott

#93 Don Weaver

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 11:56 AM

Pablo,

 

Shoo Goo might work well for parts that need some flexibility.

 

Don


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#94 Bill from NH

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 12:07 PM

I have a Cuc driver that didn't like to sit. I drilled  a small hole, maybe 1/16", through the body & part way into the driver. I then used a self-tapping screw, like those that came with Cox guides, to hold him fast. He's been sitting for the past 45 years. :)


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#95 Pablo

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 12:43 PM

Thanks, Don. Shoo Goo wasn't one of the glues I tested, but I believe you. The 3M #80 I have worked fine.

Bill, Happy 68th Birthday, Sir  :)  Your driver "screw method" sounds better and simpler than mine.

The Pactra trim tape I got from PCH is much better than eBay stickers - easy to apply and doesn't scratch.

I wiped some floor wax on the body to shine it up and seal the trim tape (thanks PdL)

 

IMG_9135.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Paul Wolcott

#96 Pablo

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 04:16 PM

John still wants the car as stock as possible, but is willing to flex when it's prudent.

My plan is to rewind the arm myself. Stock magnets and endbell must remain, in order to fit the chassis without modifying it.

My solution for the cracked EB flange is a 1/4" retaining ring.

I cannibalized a modern commutator (same OD as stock) from an old used arm.

 

Arm glue - back in 1969 I'd have bought 2 part epoxy no problemo. 

Nowadays the only people who have good glue for rewinding are those who buy expensive stuff in bulk.

I was considering JB Weld, so I tested it on a junk arm. I didn't like it.

Very thick, heavy, and ugly. Working time is short, even when thinned. Not self-leveling.

IMG_9147.JPG

 

Here is the gizmo I hope will maintain the EB flange:

IMG_9162.JPG

 

Champion #30 wire, a blank, and a Pro Slot 16D commutator ready to go

IMG_9177.JPG


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#97 Bill from NH

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 08:48 PM

I've always read that the slow drying epoxies dried stronger than quick drying (5 min.) epoxies. I haven't bought any epoxy recently, so maybe things have changed. I doubt a 30 ga. arm is going to require a lot of strength anyway, so you should be okay. The stuff Chinese arms use doesn't provide much strength or heat protection.  :)


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#98 don.siegel

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 05:28 AM

Yep, I've always read the same thing as Bill! Have always used the slow-drying epoxy on my arms (yep, on all four or 5 I've done in the last 20 years...and Devcon white two-ton back in the day). 

 

Is there a temp rating on either one? 

 

When I started doing this again it's true I was surprised at how low the temp rating seemed to be on the regular slow-drying epoxy... (don't have the packages now to check, but seem to remember it was somewhere about 200°C). 

 

Don 



#99 Bill from NH

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 07:21 AM

Don, I don't think the white two-ton Devcon is made anymore. At least I haven't seen in this area of the country for a few years.  I did buy a Devcon two-part clear epoxy at an Ace Hardware store. I'll have to dig it out & see if it has a temp rating. As I recall, I bought it because it had a higher temp rating than the Ace labeled "house" epoxies or else the house epoxies didn't have a temp rating at all.


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#100 Pablo

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 07:21 AM

Apparently, things have changed. I've been to WalMart, Lowes, and 2 different auto parts stores.

Not a single drop of the original 2 part slow dry Devcon, or any other slow dry 2 part, to be had in the entire town.

It's all quick dry now on the shelves, Devcon 1, 5, and 10 minute only.

This stuff isn't going to work, it's only rated for 120 F. I may have to drive to a bigger town, or go to Amazon.


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